Jesus' Command in Matthew 28:19

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K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#21
Oct 8, 2017
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#21
oyster67 said:
I don't want to hurt your feelings, but the idea that all prophecies must be fulfilled before anyone can be saved is a bit..... odd.
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So far I'm not getting hurt feelings nor think you are being inappropriate... but I don't grasp your meaning. What do you mean by "all prophecies must be fulfilled before anyone can be saved"? I THINK I understand but also think it important enough not to guess.. Thanks.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#22
Jul 18, 2017
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#22
Wansvic said:
Anyone who wishes to understand what Jesus meant in Matthew 28:19 need only to look up each detailed water baptism recorded. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) The evidence is in the word itself.
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The actual words of the Lord Jesus Christ (Mt 28:19) after His resurrection, and after ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH were handed to Him have more weight than anything else. So the evidence is in the recorded words of Christ by divine inspiration. And all Christians have taken those as binding until the Oneness Pentecostals came along and muddied the waters.

For all we know the other accounts in Acts simply acknowledge the fact that the Son is included with the Father and the Holy Spirit by only referring to "Jesus".
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#23
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
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#23
Nehemiah6 said:
The actual words of the Lord Jesus Christ (Mt 28:19) after His resurrection, and after ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH were handed to Him have more weight than anything else. So the evidence is in the recorded words of Christ by divine inspiration. And all Christians have taken those as binding until the Oneness Pentecostals came along and muddied the waters.

For all we know the other accounts in Acts simply acknowledge the fact that the Son is included with the Father and the Holy Spirit by only referring to "Jesus".
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Nehemiah,
This is a change of topic but did you see my request to discuss something with you off to the side?

-Kelby
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#24
May 24, 2014
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#24
KelbyofGod said:
What do you mean by "all prophecies must be fulfilled before anyone can be saved"?
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There you go lying about what I said again.

I posted:
oyster67 said:
I don't want to hurt your feelings, but the idea that all prophecies must be fulfilled before anyone can be saved is a bit..... odd.
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Try to pull off this stunt again, and I will report you.
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#25
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
#25
oyster67 said:
There you go lying about what I said again.

I posted:


Try to pull off this stunt again, and I will report you.
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I know you were not stating it as if it were your own belief. You were asking about it as if it were something I was meaning. But I don't understand what is meant by the phrase... whether from you or me. I would have defended you if anyone were to suggest YOU held the doctrine you thought I was suggesting. I do not see you as an enemy in this conversation and I will not treat you as such.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#27
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
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#27
oyster67 said:
I know you know I know. We must be careful about these things.
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That's why I said I would have defended you against anyone falsely accusing you of HOLDING a doctrine you were only QUESTIONING. But I will try to keep those things further separated, per your suggestion.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#28
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
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#28
KelbyofGod said:
Jesus had to die on the cross. That happened at one point.
Jesus had to rise from the grave. That happened at a different point.
The apostles had to believe. That happened at yet another point.
Jesus had to depart (ascend) to his father. That's another aspect that happened at another point.
And we haven't even reached the outpouring of the Holy Ghost. (which happened at yet another point.)
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@oyster67
What I was saying is that each piece accomplishes something specific, and accomplishing one piece does not negate the need for the other piece.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#29
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#29
Pilgrimshope said:
“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭
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I guess we need to educate you about the birds and the bees right here in BDF??? I am just sayin' that the first birth doesn't usually happen in a baptismal tub. (I suppose it is theoretically possible :rolleyes:.)
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#30
Sep 2, 2020
15,128
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#30
[

oyster67 said:
I guess we need to educate you about the birds and the bees right here in BDF??? I am just sayin' that the first birth doesn't usually happen in a baptismal tub. (I suppose it is theoretically possible :rolleyes:.)
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yeah understood
 
J

justbyfaith

Well-known member
#32
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
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#32
Nehemiah6 said:
The actual words of the Lord Jesus Christ (Mt 28:19) after His resurrection, and after ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH were handed to Him have more weight than anything else. So the evidence is in the recorded words of Christ by divine inspiration. And all Christians have taken those as binding until the Oneness Pentecostals came along and muddied the waters.

For all we know the other accounts in Acts simply acknowledge the fact that the Son is included with the Father and the Holy Spirit by only referring to "Jesus".
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Was Peter disobedient to the Lord's commandment when he baptized them in the name of the Lord Jesus?

Of course the Father and the Holy Ghost are included in the Person of Jesus Christ (Colossians 2:9).

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4), the Father (John 4:23-24, Ephesians 4:6), the Son (Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:39, 2 Timothy 1:14).
 
J

justbyfaith

Well-known member
#33
Sep 16, 2021
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#33
Wansvic said:
Anyone who wishes to understand what Jesus meant in Matthew 28:19 need only to look up each detailed water baptism recorded. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) The evidence is in the word itself. Every water baptism is done in the name of the Lord Jesus. Why? Because it is Jesus who was crucified for mankind. Paul made a point of indicating this in his conversation with the Corinthian's in 1 Cor. 1:12-15. Also relevant is the fact that in Jesus dwells all of the fulness of the Godhead. How do we know this? The bible tells us so, and makes a distinct association with baptism. Colossians 2:9-13.

Those who are interested in seeing who decided churches should use the phrase instead of obey Jesus' command can easily find the answer if they so desire. Do an Internet search.
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Also, we are commanded to do everything that is in word or in deed in the name of the Lord Jesus (Colossians 3:17).

And, I believe that baptizing people is something that we do in word and in deed.
 
J

justbyfaith

Well-known member
#34
Sep 16, 2021
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#34
oyster67 said:
I guess we need to educate you about the birds and the bees right here in BDF??? I am just sayin' that the first birth doesn't usually happen in a baptismal tub. (I suppose it is theoretically possible :rolleyes:.)
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I do believe that purporting that the "water" spoken of in John 3:5 is amniotic fluid is an alternate interpretation to what Jesus intended;

And that if anyone banks on that idea, they would be gambling on eternity (and losing) in the event that Jesus meant baptism when He said "water".
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#35
May 24, 2014
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#35
justbyfaith said:
I do believe that purporting that the "water" spoken of in John 3:5 is amniotic fluid is an alternate interpretation to what Jesus intended;

And that if anyone banks on that idea, they would be gambling on eternity (and losing) in the event that Jesus meant baptism when He said "water".
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John
3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
 
J

justbyfaith

Well-known member
#36
Sep 16, 2021
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#36
oyster67 said:
John
3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
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It would indicate that being born of flesh is something different than being born of water; otherwise the Lord would have used the same terminology in both instances.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#37
May 24, 2014
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#37
justbyfaith said:
It would indicate that being born of flesh is something different than being born of water;
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It would indicate that being born of water is being born of womb water.

justbyfaith said:
the Lord would have used the same terminology in both instances.
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No. One does not explain and define something by simply repeating it. Jesus tells us that when He said "water", He was referring to the flesh birth. Your mother did not birth a baptismal tub. Are you suggesting that your mother is a baptismal tub? :confused:
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#38
Nov 27, 2018
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#38
Nehemiah6 said:
The actual words of the Lord Jesus Christ (Mt 28:19) after His resurrection, and after ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH were handed to Him have more weight than anything else. So the evidence is in the recorded words of Christ by divine inspiration. And all Christians have taken those as binding until the Oneness Pentecostals came along and muddied the waters.

For all we know the other accounts in Acts simply acknowledge the fact that the Son is included with the Father and the Holy Spirit by only referring to "Jesus".
Click to expand...
Jesus said to baptize in a name in the command in Matthew 28:19. And the apostles obeyed Him as seen in every detailed water baptism. The truth cannot get any clearer than that. Especially when one considers that in baptism one is buried with Jesus into His death.

As for who muddied the water and required the use of a phrase in place of the all powerful name of Jesus that was the forerunners of the Roman Catholic Church in 325 A.D.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#39
Nov 27, 2018
5,365
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#39
oyster67 said:
John
3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Click to expand...
Romans 1:20 below speaks to truth that God's designs as witnessed in the natural realm relate to Spiritual principles. Just as a baby immerges from water in the natural birth, so to this occurs in the rebirth experience via water baptism.

"For from the creation of the world the invisible things of Him are clearly seen, being understood through the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse."
 
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