Jesus is God
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Romans 2
5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.[/QUOTE]
John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand
From Jesus
5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.[/QUOTE]
John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand
From Jesus
John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand
From Jesus[/QUOTE]
Context. They were given to Jesus by God who delegated to Jesus the ability to give eternal life to people.
29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand
From Jesus[/QUOTE]
Context. They were given to Jesus by God who delegated to Jesus the ability to give eternal life to people.
29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
Context. They were given to Jesus by God who delegated to Jesus the ability to give eternal life to people.
29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”[/QUOTE]
Yes, it was given by the Father.. but Jesus is one with the Father. Also.. only Jesus was given this authority. No one else. If He is in anyway lesser than the Father.. then He is some sort of demi-god.. which the bible in no way supports.
Also.. He still gives the eternal life. The Father gives.. Jesus gives it. Equal.
Lastly-- and for the nth time.. when Jesus said 'the Father is greater than I' .. afterwards He ascended to be one with the Father.. equal.
The Father isn't an ontologically superior being. He was in a greater position than Jesus. Now He is not. They are now equal.
My last post to you Runningman.
29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”[/QUOTE]
Yes, it was given by the Father.. but Jesus is one with the Father. Also.. only Jesus was given this authority. No one else. If He is in anyway lesser than the Father.. then He is some sort of demi-god.. which the bible in no way supports.
Also.. He still gives the eternal life. The Father gives.. Jesus gives it. Equal.
Lastly-- and for the nth time.. when Jesus said 'the Father is greater than I' .. afterwards He ascended to be one with the Father.. equal.
The Father isn't an ontologically superior being. He was in a greater position than Jesus. Now He is not. They are now equal.
My last post to you Runningman.
Hi Larry, you are asking an atheist question so I don't really believe you are a Jew... if you are you are not a religious Jew 
just an observation.
There is one "forbidden chapter" in the Torah and if you really are a Jew go and read it, Isaiah 53, it will blow your mind and also start you on the journey understanding why Yeshua is the Messiah.
just an observation. There is one "forbidden chapter" in the Torah and if you really are a Jew go and read it, Isaiah 53, it will blow your mind and also start you on the journey understanding why Yeshua is the Messiah.
Wattie, I think you have some important things to sort out. Since you are “done with me” I’ll give you scripture. Hopefully are you don’t with scripture. God bless.
God doesn’t tell His Son everything. Jesus plainly said only his Father knows. That isn’t equality.
Matthew 24:36
36“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
God put all except Himself under Jesus.
1 Corinthians 15
27For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Also want to note, Jesus is at God’s “right hand”, not on “God’s throne.”
Hebrews 1
3The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
God doesn’t tell His Son everything. Jesus plainly said only his Father knows. That isn’t equality.
Matthew 24:36
36“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
God put all except Himself under Jesus.
1 Corinthians 15
27For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Also want to note, Jesus is at God’s “right hand”, not on “God’s throne.”
Hebrews 1
3The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
Yes, it was given by the Father.. but Jesus is one with the Father. Also.. only Jesus was given this authority. No one else. If He is in anyway lesser than the Father.. then He is some sort of demi-god.. which the bible in no way supports.
Also.. He still gives the eternal life. The Father gives.. Jesus gives it. Equal.
Lastly-- and for the nth time.. when Jesus said 'the Father is greater than I' .. afterwards He ascended to be one with the Father.. equal.
The Father isn't an ontologically superior being. He was in a greater position than Jesus. Now He is not. They are now equal.
My last post to you Runningman.[/QUOTE]
The Father isn't an ontologically superior being. He was in a greater position than Jesus. Now He is not. They are now equal."
Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
Isaiah 43:8-12 KJV
Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships. I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King. Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
Isaiah 43:14-15, 18-19, 25 KJV
I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass. Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them. They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them. For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
Isaiah 48:3, 6-7, 11-13, 17 KJV
Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
Isaiah 52:6 KJV
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
John 8:23-25 KJV
700 years before he was saying "I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins."
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:24 KJ
700 years before
Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:3, 6-9 KJ
The revelation of Jesus Christ
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelation 1:17-18 K
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. THE END
Revelation 22:12-14, 16, 20-21 KJV
God Is one and apparently many don't understand what he has done for us in Christ
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Hebrews 2:14-15 KJV
Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Also.. He still gives the eternal life. The Father gives.. Jesus gives it. Equal.
Lastly-- and for the nth time.. when Jesus said 'the Father is greater than I' .. afterwards He ascended to be one with the Father.. equal.
The Father isn't an ontologically superior being. He was in a greater position than Jesus. Now He is not. They are now equal.
My last post to you Runningman.[/QUOTE]
The Father isn't an ontologically superior being. He was in a greater position than Jesus. Now He is not. They are now equal."
Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
Isaiah 43:8-12 KJV
Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships. I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King. Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
Isaiah 43:14-15, 18-19, 25 KJV
I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass. Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them. They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them. For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
Isaiah 48:3, 6-7, 11-13, 17 KJV
Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
Isaiah 52:6 KJV
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
John 8:23-25 KJV
700 years before he was saying "I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins."
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:24 KJ
700 years before
Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:3, 6-9 KJ
The revelation of Jesus Christ
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelation 1:17-18 K
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. THE END
Revelation 22:12-14, 16, 20-21 KJV
God Is one and apparently many don't understand what he has done for us in Christ
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Hebrews 2:14-15 KJV
Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
That is a common question from many who ask about God.
There is one key thing in what you asked..
'Bad stuff'
That means there is a measure. A standard that has been broken. 'Bad'.. that is the opposite of good. Where does this standard come from?
The bible record is that everything was perfectly good.. no sin.. no stain. God made it that way. But He also made it with men having the ability to choose good over evil.. choose good over bad. He didn't create robots. People do have free will.
So.. people were tempted by evil (Adam and Eve tempted by Satan).. they could have chosen not to listen to Satan.. and follow God in telling them not to be taken by evil (taking of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil)..
But they chose evil. They became imperfect.. sinful people. The created a schism between them and God.
So God is still good.. perfect. But people have gone their own way. There is an unpassable gap between people and God. Can't mix perfect with imperfect.
So.. the only way to deal with that is substitution.. through Jesus being the sacrificial lamb.. to take away men's sin.. not by their own strength.. but by His power.
Jesus, being fully God.. rose again from the dead.. showing His power over sin to defeat sin and death.
Now the way to God is open.. anyone who entrusts their salvation with Jesus (or Yeshua) will have eternal life. John 3:16, 5:24, 3:36
So.. why does God allow evil and suffering? Well.. because we have free will and have chosen it. God has stepped in through Jesus Christ. He did deal with evil through Jesus Christ.. and will finally deal with evil once and for all in the end. That is the bible record.
Now.. as to Jesus being God--
He did things by the hand of the Father.. said the Father was in Him.. and He in the Father. He accepted worship of Himself. He did miracles by His power that were beyond the miracles the disciples did.
There is one key thing in what you asked..
'Bad stuff'
That means there is a measure. A standard that has been broken. 'Bad'.. that is the opposite of good. Where does this standard come from?
The bible record is that everything was perfectly good.. no sin.. no stain. God made it that way. But He also made it with men having the ability to choose good over evil.. choose good over bad. He didn't create robots. People do have free will.
So.. people were tempted by evil (Adam and Eve tempted by Satan).. they could have chosen not to listen to Satan.. and follow God in telling them not to be taken by evil (taking of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil)..
But they chose evil. They became imperfect.. sinful people. The created a schism between them and God.
So God is still good.. perfect. But people have gone their own way. There is an unpassable gap between people and God. Can't mix perfect with imperfect.
So.. the only way to deal with that is substitution.. through Jesus being the sacrificial lamb.. to take away men's sin.. not by their own strength.. but by His power.
Jesus, being fully God.. rose again from the dead.. showing His power over sin to defeat sin and death.
Now the way to God is open.. anyone who entrusts their salvation with Jesus (or Yeshua) will have eternal life. John 3:16, 5:24, 3:36
So.. why does God allow evil and suffering? Well.. because we have free will and have chosen it. God has stepped in through Jesus Christ. He did deal with evil through Jesus Christ.. and will finally deal with evil once and for all in the end. That is the bible record.
Now.. as to Jesus being God--
He did things by the hand of the Father.. said the Father was in Him.. and He in the Father. He accepted worship of Himself. He did miracles by His power that were beyond the miracles the disciples did.
Too many things to address so I’ll just answer the last paragraph.
While it’s true there are verses that say people worshipped Jesus as the Son of God, it doesn’t say they were worshipping him as God.
Furthermore, to be fair, it doesn’t say Jesus accepted the worship and it doesn’t say he rejected it either.
The miracles Jesus did, he informed his disciples they would do greater miracles than he did.
John 14
12Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
While it’s true there are verses that say people worshipped Jesus as the Son of God, it doesn’t say they were worshipping him as God.
Furthermore, to be fair, it doesn’t say Jesus accepted the worship and it doesn’t say he rejected it either.
The miracles Jesus did, he informed his disciples they would do greater miracles than he did.
John 14
12Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
.
Jesus very goal in life is to give God what He wants. (John 4:34)
Jesus also said that he always pleases his Father. (John 8:29)
It is God's will that Jesus lose none of the sheep entrusted to his care.
(John 6:39)
So then, were Jesus to lose even one head of the sheep given to him by
God, he would not only fail to comply with his Father's will, but he would
also have to tone it down a bit and say that he mostly pleases his Father,
but not always.
And then there's this:
• John 10:28 . . neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
We can safely omit "man" because it's not in the Greek text, and the word
translated "any" is tis, which is an indefinite pronoun that pretty much
pertains to everything.
FAQ: What about free will? Can't the sheep pluck themselves out of his hand?
REPLY: The shepherd's free will trumps the sheep's free will. And besides,
his miracles demonstrate that Jesus has all the powers of God at his disposal
to keep the sheep right where he wants them. And even if they did manage
to escape the shepherd, they'd still have God to contend with.
• John 10:29 . . My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no
one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
The Greek word translated "no one" is oudeis, which pretty much pertains to
not just people, but to all that can be imagined.
So then, the statement below can be safely, fully, and confidently relied
upon to be true.
• John 10:7-9 . . Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. By
me if any man enter in, he shall be saved
"shall be saved" is a very positive statement. It doesn't mean can be saved,
nor does it mean might be saved. No; the sheep are pretty much stuck with
being saved, i.e. they can't get out of it with any more ease than a pocket
gopher can burrow to the Moon and back.
_
Jesus very goal in life is to give God what He wants. (John 4:34)
Jesus also said that he always pleases his Father. (John 8:29)
It is God's will that Jesus lose none of the sheep entrusted to his care.
(John 6:39)
So then, were Jesus to lose even one head of the sheep given to him by
God, he would not only fail to comply with his Father's will, but he would
also have to tone it down a bit and say that he mostly pleases his Father,
but not always.
And then there's this:
• John 10:28 . . neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
We can safely omit "man" because it's not in the Greek text, and the word
translated "any" is tis, which is an indefinite pronoun that pretty much
pertains to everything.
FAQ: What about free will? Can't the sheep pluck themselves out of his hand?
REPLY: The shepherd's free will trumps the sheep's free will. And besides,
his miracles demonstrate that Jesus has all the powers of God at his disposal
to keep the sheep right where he wants them. And even if they did manage
to escape the shepherd, they'd still have God to contend with.
• John 10:29 . . My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no
one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
The Greek word translated "no one" is oudeis, which pretty much pertains to
not just people, but to all that can be imagined.
So then, the statement below can be safely, fully, and confidently relied
upon to be true.
• John 10:7-9 . . Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. By
me if any man enter in, he shall be saved
"shall be saved" is a very positive statement. It doesn't mean can be saved,
nor does it mean might be saved. No; the sheep are pretty much stuck with
being saved, i.e. they can't get out of it with any more ease than a pocket
gopher can burrow to the Moon and back.
_
I'm inclined to believe that Thomas was using an expression or exclaiming "My Lord and my God!" People sometimes say these very words up to the present day when they are surprised or in awe.
However, it's possible that's actually what Thomas believed. If it's true that's literally what Thomas believed, it shows there wasn't mutual agreement among the apostles about who Jesus is.
For example, Peter said Jesus of Nazareth is a man through whom God did miracles, signs, and wonders.
Acts 2:22
22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know.
Jesus identified himself a man in John 8:40. In Luke 18:18,19, when Jesus was called a good teacher he responded by asking why he was called good and said only God is good. Paul identified Jesus as a man mediating between God and mankind in 1 Timothy 2:5.
God isn't a title Jesus ever assigned to himself or something Jesus' Father ever referred to him as. Actually, when Jesus was called God he seemed to argue to the contrary in John 5:18-47 and John 10:30-37.
However, it's possible that's actually what Thomas believed. If it's true that's literally what Thomas believed, it shows there wasn't mutual agreement among the apostles about who Jesus is.
For example, Peter said Jesus of Nazareth is a man through whom God did miracles, signs, and wonders.
Acts 2:22
22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know.
Jesus identified himself a man in John 8:40. In Luke 18:18,19, when Jesus was called a good teacher he responded by asking why he was called good and said only God is good. Paul identified Jesus as a man mediating between God and mankind in 1 Timothy 2:5.
God isn't a title Jesus ever assigned to himself or something Jesus' Father ever referred to him as. Actually, when Jesus was called God he seemed to argue to the contrary in John 5:18-47 and John 10:30-37.
.
A man doesn't have to actually be God to worshipped as God; not when
he's been elevated to the rank of God. For example:
• Gen 41:42-44 . . And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it
upon Joseph's hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a
gold chain about his neck; and he made him to ride in the second chariot
which he had; and they cried before him: "Bow the knee" and he made him
ruler over all the land of Egypt. And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I am
Pharaoh, and without thee shall no man lift up his hand or foot in all the land
of Egypt.
Pharaoh's ring was a signet, which as a stamp; is all the same as his
official signature, i.e. it gave Joseph access to all the power and authority of
Egypt's ruler. So to the people of Egypt, Joseph was, for all practical intents
and purposes: Pharaoh's double-- including Joseph's kin. (Gen 44:18)
Now supposing God were to do something like that? I mean: endow
someone with all the power and authority of God at his disposal. For all
practical intents and purposes, that man would be God's double; and
servants would have to run ahead of his chariot yelling: Bow the knee!
Well; isn't that basically what Daniel 7:13-14 & Philippians 2:9-11 are
saying?
_
A man doesn't have to actually be God to worshipped as God; not when
he's been elevated to the rank of God. For example:
• Gen 41:42-44 . . And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it
upon Joseph's hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a
gold chain about his neck; and he made him to ride in the second chariot
which he had; and they cried before him: "Bow the knee" and he made him
ruler over all the land of Egypt. And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I am
Pharaoh, and without thee shall no man lift up his hand or foot in all the land
of Egypt.
Pharaoh's ring was a signet, which as a stamp; is all the same as his
official signature, i.e. it gave Joseph access to all the power and authority of
Egypt's ruler. So to the people of Egypt, Joseph was, for all practical intents
and purposes: Pharaoh's double-- including Joseph's kin. (Gen 44:18)
Now supposing God were to do something like that? I mean: endow
someone with all the power and authority of God at his disposal. For all
practical intents and purposes, that man would be God's double; and
servants would have to run ahead of his chariot yelling: Bow the knee!
Well; isn't that basically what Daniel 7:13-14 & Philippians 2:9-11 are
saying?
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Right that’s true, hence why none of the other apostles, except for possibly Thomas, ever called Jesus God, according to the New Testament. It’s also why Jesus never actually said “I am God.” The Pharisees weren’t calling Jesus God, but rather falsely accusing him of calling himself God.
True, Jesus did bring up blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, but he said that any words spoken against himself would be forgiven, but words against the Holy Spirit wouldn’t be forgiven. The Holy Spirit is God’s Spirit.
True, Jesus did bring up blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, but he said that any words spoken against himself would be forgiven, but words against the Holy Spirit wouldn’t be forgiven. The Holy Spirit is God’s Spirit.
For Jesus to outright say 'I am God' would put those who follow Him in jeopardy.
If He said it at the wrong time, He would have been able to avoid capture by His power.. but His followers would not. It had to be to the right plan and time.
When Jesus talked to the Pharisees and put Himself on equal terms to the Father.. the time was right.
If He said it at the wrong time, He would have been able to avoid capture by His power.. but His followers would not. It had to be to the right plan and time.
When Jesus talked to the Pharisees and put Himself on equal terms to the Father.. the time was right.
In this instance, the pharisees accused Jesus of doing the works of Baalzebub, but when they accused Him of calling Himself God, their error was in the insinuation that He wasn't. Whether He ever outrightly said, "God" within His "I am" statement as truth, He presented Himself as, and I'd argue not only "a" as in one of three but at time also "the," divine Being, i.e. I am 'the' life. And keep in mind that other angels and hosts of heaven are celestial beings and not divine though some may often attribute them as such.
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In John 8:58 where Jesus said "“before Abraham was born, I am!” it literally means "Before Abraham was born I existed." This verse is about the pre-existence of Jesus.
Jesus said he had glory with his Father before the world began... before Abraham existed Jesus as the Son of God existed.
John 17
5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
Jesus said he had glory with his Father before the world began... before Abraham existed Jesus as the Son of God existed.
John 17
5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.