Jesus is not coming back. He already did in 70 A.D.

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Jan 12, 2019
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THE DAY IS STILL AT HAND. Roku23, You say He is not coming back. That He already has. The bible does not teach that, and I will point out some of your personal beliefs that also proves your error,
which you also combine with Scripture, to make it fit your belief.
I appreciate you taking the time to make such a long detailed response but unfortunately you didn't address any of the arguments I made from Scripture.

You quoted 1 Timothy 4 and Hymaneus and Philetus and basically assumed that what I presented was an error. You didn't refute any of the passages I presented.

You mentioned a bunch of passages in Matthew 24 and incorrectly apply them to the "end of the world" when Jesus specifically says ALL these things will come upon this generation.

Where did I insert my personal beliefs? I didn't. I used Scripture that you have not even addressed.

You mentioned Acts 1: 9-11. If you read it in the Greek it says that the cloud received Jesus out of the sight of the Apostles and then the cloud ascended out of the apostles sight with Jesus hidden inside it. If you read Josephus he records chariots being seen in the skies running around in the clouds above Jerusalem. How do you know they didn't see Jesus? You don't. Maybe it was a spiritual coming in the clouds like you read about in Isa 19: 1 or Psalm 104: 3 or maybe they actually saw Him. You don't know and neither do I.

Acts 1 means He was coming in clouds in like manner which is exactly how Jesus describes His coming in Matt 24: 30-31 and in verse 34 which follows it Jesus says it will happen in His generation.

Once again, you made mostly emotional arguments because you think that what I am saying is wrong. That is your opinion. I provided Scripture that you never even answered. You still can't answer it.

What about Matt 16: 27-28? Do you have an answer? Anyways, I appreciate you taking the time to make a long post like that.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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You are quoting Zechariah 14: 4. That is symbolic language. It is not literal.
You claim that it is symbolic language because it destroys your belief! Jesus' feet will indeed literally touch down on the Mount of Olives when He returns to the earth to end the age. Typical! When scripture proves your belief wrong, then you reinterpret the scripture, distorting it. That's what you and many others do.

The annihilationist and soul-sleepers do the same thing with the event of the rich man and Lazarus by turning it into a parable in order to get rid of it as an actual event.

You people amaze me! If you would use as much effort in finding out the truth as you do to cover it up, you would understand. Instead, you use all of your efforts in providing false apologetics in order to support your distortion of scripture.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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You see how that works? We can read the prophecy and its fulfillment has been recorded.
So what you are saying is you are like doubting Thomas. Unless you have visual or recorded proof you will not believe. But what did Jesus say? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe. That's called believing the word of God. I don't need proof. I wasn't alive in 70 A.D.

I believe what Jesus tells me and I don't require Him to prove it to me. He gives plenty of proof in the Scriptures if you will accept them for what they say.

You never answered Matt 16: 27-28. Your claim that it was the Mount of Transfiguration is denied by Scripture. Jesus did not repay every man according to his deeds at the Mount of Transfiguration. He said He was coming back in that generation because some of them wouldn't taste death.

He says the same thing in Matt 24: 30-31 and in verse 34 He says it will happen in His generation confirming what was already said in Matt 16: 27-28.

He says the same thing in Matt 10: 17-23 verses you never tried to answer. Three different passages that say the same thing. I accept the Word of God.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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In further support of this having not taken place, Matt.24:30-31, which you keep quoting as already taken place, is a prophecy regarding the end of the age, while clearly the age is still on-going. In fact Jesus said, "I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it" and the church is still in the process of being built. This is still further supported by the fact that, when Jesus sends out His angels, it will be to first gather the wicked to burn them and then to gather the wheat who will be those great tribulation saints who make it through the entire tribulation period alive.
The same words are recorded in Mark 13: 26-27 and there is no question about the "end of the age" there. The 2 questions the disciples asked in Mark and Luke are the same 2 questions (that look like 3 to many people) in Matthew. When will the temple be destroyed and what is the sign it is about to be fulfilled. That is His coming. That is the end of the age. The jewish age. Same 2 questions in all 3 Olivet discourses.
 

SIMON55

Active member
Feb 15, 2019
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MO,OK,AR
God came in judgement a number of times in Biblical history He came against Israel using the Assyrians and again against Judah
using the Babylonians' He also came against Egypt Edom and other nations that attacked Israel' In some cases the language used to describe these events is the same as that in Revelation He comes in clouds and the Sun Moon and stars fall from Heaven. This is a
Poetic way of describing Gods Judgement in these cases.

In AD70 Christ came in Judgement against Israel and predicted the event in Matthew. That was the end of the OT age. He used Rome to carry it out. In Matthew 24 Jesus said THIS GENERATION will not pass away before all these things happen. He was talking to his
Disciples there and then. If not he would have said THAT GENERATION. There are other texts to back this. Warning his Disciples to
run to the hills when the Abomination of Desolation is seen would be pointless if he was talking about 2000 plus years ahead. Again
this is a term well understood by first century Jews. It was anything that pollutes the Temple and City which are Holy.

I believe that there will be an actual final judgement when the dead are resurrected and the living are raptured. This will be followed by a new heaven and earth. Meanwhile the Kingdom that Christ brought at his first coming continues to grow and anyone who believes in him are part of that kingdom NOW not at some time in the future.
Daniel 7.....1260 yrs....
A day unto the lord is a year unto man....
Numbers 14
Ezekiel 4-4-7
So how do you explain Danie away.....because Nero does not match characteristics and can't live 1260 yrs....
Also.....this preterist view was authored by a Jesuit Catholic and published 1614 in response to Protestant Reformers Identifying the RCC AS The Little Horny pedophile Antichrist Beast kingdom and
Revelation was written 81-96 as agreed by early church fathers and the Catholics shoot themselves in the foot with the New American Catholic Bible on their website Introduction to Revelation they indicate
81-96....So how does John write 12-15 yrs later or hold a prophecy 12-15yrs that is pointless by that point and doesnt speak past tense about the Kingdom having come.....and
Rev 2-12 Satan is still on his seat in Pergamos and not locked away.....and John not raptured in 70 and.....what would be the point of the Mark of the Beast Babylonian Whore Babylon city falling and.....
THE IRON AND THE CLAY WAS NOT MIXED UNTIL CONSTANTINE CONQUERED IN THE SIGN OF THE CROSS AND THE Iron Roman empire not divided till Justinian decree 538 ad....you tring to say Daniel who exactly matched 2500 yrs of global history was full of it....??? 538-1798 1260 yrs Napoleon exiles Pope takes head of beast off temporarily. ....Little horn iron and clay little horn iron and clay Clay is Christianity ....NERO don't MATCH....
RCC BLASPHEMING LITTLE HORN PAGANISM BABYLONIAN PURPLE SCARLOT BEAST RIDING WHORE MOTHER CHURCH OF harlots matches!
Forget the Sun and the Moon and the Stars follow the Babylonian Sun god trail Capture+_2019-02-23-19-27-37-1.png Capture+_2019-02-23-18-02-02.png Capture+_2019-02-23-17-46-18.png Capture+_2019-02-12-07-14-56.png
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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Let's sum up the literalist/futurists so far - feet on the Mount of Olives/see him in the clouds.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation.

Obvious disconnect with the words of Jesus.

Then we have the "delay" in his return and contradiction of John's statements:

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

The futurist/literalist would have us believe that "at hand" is 1900 years and counting.

Right rolleye.gif

Good luck with dat.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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The same words are recorded in Mark 13: 26-27 and there is no question about the "end of the age" there. The 2 questions the disciples asked in Mark and Luke are the same 2 questions (that look like 3 to many people) in Matthew. When will the temple be destroyed and what is the sign it is about to be fulfilled. That is His coming. That is the end of the age. The jewish age. Same 2 questions in all 3 Olivet discourses.
So was Paul resurrected at 70AD per 2 Tim 4:8? According to the preterists he must be and the other Saints as well.

"Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing."
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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1 Cor 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none.

Apparently the time is now long.

1 Pet 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Apparently the time was not at hand.

1 Cor 10:11 (Young's Literal) And all these things as types did happen to those persons, and they were written for our admonition, to whom the end of the ages did come

Apparently some are still waiting for the end of the age in which Jesus appeared:

Heb 9:26 (Young's Literal) since it had behoved him many times to suffer from the foundation of the world, but now once, at the full end of the ages, for putting away of sin through his sacrifice, he hath been manifested;

Why read scripture when your denomination has declared what it means?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Jesus says in Matt 24: 34 that everything He just mentioned would come upon His generation. That includes His second coming in verses 30 and 31. Unfortunately, people do not want to accept the Scriptures for what they say try to twist that word for generation. Cannot be done. I'm not saying that you are but many Christians try and twist it.

Matt 16: 27-28 tell us that Jesus was coming back in His generation. He did not reward every man according to his deeds at the Mount of Transfiguration or Pentecost which futurists will try to claim. He did that in 70 A.D. when the Jews who rejected Him died in the city, the living Christians escaped, and the dead were raised out of Hades; some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Dan 12: 1-2).
Why 70AD? why not 80AD or 65AD?
Even as per Daniel's 70 week projection, no calculation would bring you near 70AD, so the 70AD events means nothing and neither Jesus nor Daniel spoke of a physical temple but a spiritual one. It is the same temple that Jesus said "bring it down and i will raise it up in 3 days.." He did that too.

1. Many Christians died in the 70AD events, so it is wrong to say that living Christians escaped. There was no escape. Many still died during Hitler's time, no escape at all- you can use the phrase 'some survived' but many non believers also survived so your point is moot.

2. The sacrificial system and Judaism and other systems that reject Jesus as the Lord continued well beyond 70 AD and even up to date, so your point that 70 AD was the end of something doesn't hold any water.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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It happened in the spiritual realm. It is not physical bodies and people would not have seen it on earth. It is a spiritual resurrection. Mankind no longer being separated from God because of sin. When Jesus came back Hades was opened and the dead were raised and entered heaven. Since 70 A.D. everyone who dies immediately goes to heaven. There is no waiting in Hades.

Rev 14: 13 says "blessed are those who die in the Lord from this time forward that they may rest and their works follow them". What happens immediately after that verse? One like the Son of Man puts in the sickle and harvests the earth. The resurrection. No more separation from God.
But those words were penned decades after 70AD.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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You claim that it is symbolic language because it destroys your belief! Jesus' feet will indeed literally touch down on the Mount of Olives when He returns to the earth to end the age. Typical! When scripture proves your belief wrong, then you reinterpret the scripture, distorting it. That's what you and many others do.

The annihilationist and soul-sleepers do the same thing with the event of the rich man and Lazarus by turning it into a parable in order to get rid of it as an actual event.

You people amaze me! If you would use as much effort in finding out the truth as you do to cover it up, you would understand. Instead, you use all of your efforts in providing false apologetics in order to support your distortion of scripture.

According to the signified language of the scripture. Feet as a signifier are used in the Bible to signify the gospel . Mountains represent kingdoms.

God is not a man as us he has no literal feet or any part of a flesh and blood body . The one time fleshly demonstration is over. We are in the generation of Christ it began when the veil was rent .The temple as a metaphor for the time then present lost its usefulness when the veil was rent. The time of reformation the last days began .

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.2 Corinthians5:16
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Jesus says in Matt 24: 34 that everything He just mentioned would come upon His generation. That includes His second coming in verses 30 and 31. Unfortunately, people do not want to accept the Scriptures for what they say try to twist that word for generation. Cannot be done. I'm not saying that you are but many Christians try and twist it.

Matt 16: 27-28 tell us that Jesus was coming back in His generation. He did not reward every man according to his deeds at the Mount of Transfiguration or Pentecost which futurists will try to claim. He did that in 70 A.D. when the Jews who rejected Him died in the city, the living Christians escaped, and the dead were raised out of Hades; some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Dan 12: 1-2).

Yes his generation or this generation the new creatures. Not the evil generation the generation of Adam Two different generations used . Heaven and earth will not pass away until this generation comes to the last day . The time keepers the Sun and Moon day and night will have served its purpose they will no longer be under the feet of the eternal bride the church .(Revelation 12) There will be no more darkness on the last day

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. Revelation 21;22-23
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
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Daniel 7.....1260 yrs....
A day unto the lord is a year unto man....
Numbers 14
Ezekiel 4-4-7
So how do you explain Danie away.....because Nero does not match characteristics and can't live 1260 yrs....
Also.....this preterist view was authored by a Jesuit Catholic and published 1614 in response to Protestant Reformers Identifying the RCC AS The Little Horny pedophile Antichrist Beast kingdom and
Revelation was written 81-96 as agreed by early church fathers and the Catholics shoot themselves in the foot with the New American Catholic Bible on their website Introduction to Revelation they indicate
81-96....So how does John write 12-15 yrs later or hold a prophecy 12-15yrs that is pointless by that point and doesnt speak past tense about the Kingdom having come.....and
Rev 2-12 Satan is still on his seat in Pergamos and not locked away.....and John not raptured in 70 and.....what would be the point of the Mark of the Beast Babylonian Whore Babylon city falling and.....
THE IRON AND THE CLAY WAS NOT MIXED UNTIL CONSTANTINE CONQUERED IN THE SIGN OF THE CROSS AND THE Iron Roman empire not divided till Justinian decree 538 ad....you tring to say Daniel who exactly matched 2500 yrs of global history was full of it....??? 538-1798 1260 yrs Napoleon exiles Pope takes head of beast off temporarily. ....Little horn iron and clay little horn iron and clay Clay is Christianity ....NERO don't MATCH....
RCC BLASPHEMING LITTLE HORN PAGANISM BABYLONIAN PURPLE SCARLOT BEAST RIDING WHORE MOTHER CHURCH OF harlots matches!
Forget the Sun and the Moon and the Stars follow the Babylonian Sun god trail View attachment 194904 View attachment 194905 View attachment 194906 View attachment 194907
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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To Simon55

To start Daniel 7 has no mention of 1260 years or days. I read the chapter through from a copy of Youngs Literal translation.
Both Numbers and Ezekiel says that God counted days as years in those specific incidents but to apply it as a hard and fast rule
as you seem to do makes some fantastic reading. Was Jesus in the wilderness for Forty Years being tempted? Did he stay in the tomb for three years? Did it take God six years to create Heaven and Earth?

The belief that John wrote Revelation originated from a statement by Irenaeus who knew Justin Martyr believed to be Johns Disciple.
all other statements come from people who took his statement as factual based on this relationship. The whole argument is still open to debate.

The whore is dressed as a Jewish High Priest right down to the the writing on her forehead. The High Priest wore a plate on his forehead which said Holy Unto the Lord. The Whore is a Parody and represents apostate Israel who is called a whore by the Prophets

I dont have the time or inclination to deal with every point you bring up but I will say that I am not a Full Preterist which you seem to
assume I am. I would also suggest you read Matthew 23
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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I remember reading about those in the end tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine.........................the last 1949 years of history not only proves the OP wrong, but also any and all that say the end came and went in 70 A.D.
Bro, we are in the new heaven and new earth right now! Did you think it would suck this much? Safe to say I had higher expectations! Wish someone would of told me that "no death and no tears" (no diseases either) were metaphors.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,508
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According to the Bible, Jesus' second coming was in 70 A.D. Here is a few Scriptures in support of this:

Matt 16: 27-28, "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Matt 24: 30-31, "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. " This is the Olivet Discourse and in verse 34 it says "ALL these things will come upon this generation" Not some things but ALL these signs will come upon this generation.

Matt 10: 23, "17 But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. “Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. 23 For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

I have many more Scriptures I can provide if anyone is interested in discussing this. God bless.
The limited First-fruits resurrection event (Matt 27:52) was witnessed and duly recorded in Scripture.
Yet your 70AD resurrection of everyone else passed with a whimper, no witnesses, no records?

Please reconsider your "extreme Preterist" position.

Interestingly, even R.C. Sproul was a limited preterist so I am told....
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,508
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Bro, we are in the new heaven and new earth right now! Did you think it would suck this much? Safe to say I had higher expectations! Wish someone would of told me that "no death and no tears" (no diseases either) were metaphors.
According to the admission of the OP writer, people haven't changed one iota. And never will.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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Bro, we are in the new heaven and new earth right now! Did you think it would suck this much? Safe to say I had higher expectations! Wish someone would of told me that "no death and no tears" (no diseases either) were metaphors.
Very few if any on this site would say that ''The end'' came in AD70. What ended was the OT sacrificial system and this was prophesied by Jesus who by his death and resurrection brought that about. You may have noticed that there is no Temple standing or mass slaughter of animals going on despite some being keen for this to start up again. As I said earlier full blown Preterism is false but
so is extreme Futurism which concentrates more on news headlines and dubious U Tube sites than scripture. It appears that those
who follow it cant wait for the mass destruction of Humanity, Antichrists arrival and the rapture when they are carried off like
settlers waiting for the Cavalry in an old Western.

Christ brought in the kingdom of heaven at his first coming. It began with him and 12 Disciples, (all Jewish) and as explained by Jesus
in his Parables is like a seed that grows into a large tree. That seed has been growing for 2000 plus years and continues to do so. If you belong to him the Kingdom is also in you NOW. Those who are his are part of that kingdom NOW. They are part of the true Israel of God NOW One day it will come to full fruition Christ will return and bring about the Judgement and resurrection together with the transformation of those alive at that time. No one knows when that will happen but when it does Christ will bring in a new heaven and
a new earth.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Bro, we are in the new heaven and new earth right now! Did you think it would suck this much? Safe to say I had higher expectations! Wish someone would of told me that "no death and no tears" (no diseases either) were metaphors.
I know......I put a few of the Street organ payers on ignore that dogmatically peddle the end came and went in 70 A.D.........that view makes my list of the 10 most ignorant views I have ever heard......