Jesus killed the law causing enmity to cease

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Biblelogic01

Guest
In other words, there are two wrong extremes. On one end of the spectrum or extreme, there is the promotion of lawlessness. On the other end of the spectrum, we can see that it is about a promotion of one to trust in what they should do in order to be saved (i.e. one's performance versus say letting God be their salvation). Both versions are wrong and they each both promote one in being their own god.
If Torah is observed properly it's not selfish, It's being obedient to God's word.
 
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We all agree that Israel was rejected by God because they rejected His Torah/instructions/statues/law to follow other gods which is the doctrine of compromise called doctrine of Balaam. God promised blessing if they adhered to those instructions and cursings if they rejected them. Have we ever considered that the false doctrine of "separation of church and state" has been prevalent for years in the United States because we have also followed suit with Israel's failure? I'm not saying that the works of the law is for individual righteousness. I saying it contributes to proper self governing. That is only by faith in the word of God. Our forefathers in this country had that faith and wrote the constitution by that faith for the most part. Much of the principles listed in our constitution were taken from the Bible. Have we become so consumed with making the law void that we have set our country up for the same cursings as Israel in the OT?

"Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" Romans 2:9-10

Deuteronomy 11:26-28
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

When we see the tribulation in full swing (and it's very close) think about the comparison between ancient Israel, and modern day America. It will happen because God doesn't change unless we do, and then He will repent of the evil against us because of His grace.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
 
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17And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death. 18And he that killeth a beast shall make it good; beast for beast. 19And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; 20Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again. 21And he that killeth a beast, he shall restore it: and he that killeth a man, he shall be put to death. 22Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for Iam the LORD your God. 23And Moses spake to the children of Israel, that they should bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp, and stone him with stones. And the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses. (Leviticus 24)

15One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. 16If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong; 17Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days; 18And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness,and hath testified falsely against his brother; 19Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. 20And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you. 21And thine eye shall not pity; but lifeshall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. (Deuteronomy 19).
God's judgment by His equity, and I add to the scripture you quoted. I like it that we are issuing truth to all who read.

Exodus 21:23-26
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.

The servant no longer works for the man because of the eye or tooth damage. Not only that, the price of redemption is also lost. Freedom is the end result. When turning the other cheek freedom is given to the one being slapped by forcing the slapper to hit with the open hand. Jewish tradition is demeaning the character of another with the back of the hand. Turning the other cheek forces the slapper to hit with the palm of the hand putting both on the same statues to those that witness the event. Same with giving up the cloak that Jesus ministered. The cloak is not to be kept over night, otherwise the person that doesn't give it back will suffer punishment. The cloak it for sleeping and keeping warm by the one who owns it.
 
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So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. Deuteronomy 13:5 Deuteronomy 17:7 Deuteronomy 19:19 Deuteronomy 22:21-24 Deuteronomy 24:7
so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. Deuteronomy 21:21

There are more instructions that do not refute the New Testament. Bad things happen to bad people, and good things happen to the innocent.

One more thing. Many think that killers might accept Christ as there Savior after they are imprisoned. I would say that is very true, but if they knew they were to face the death penalty in every case, they may not have been imprisoned in the first place. Our prisons are already over crowded. Just sayin'
 
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In addition, to bring the concept together in both scriptures in its entity I quote.

"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." Luke 9:23

So being killed all day long by following Christ, we are more than conquerers in Christ. Dead to the flesh and alive by the Spirit through Christ Jesus our Lord. We haven't the power by our own works, but we are given the power to conquer through Him. All good gifts come from Heaven above.

"I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily." 1 Corinthians 15:31
Yes, we are more than conquerors through Christ - but I don't believe it is taking up our cross daily that makes us more than conquerors . . . What makes us more than conquerors is Christ in us to strengthen us and guide us through the gift of holy Spirit which we have been given as born again believers in Christ - NO LAW could do this. Also Christ said - Take my yoke upon you and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart and ye shall find rest unto your soul Matt. 11:29 - doesn't sound like being led to the slaughter to me.

It seems that scripture even makes a distinction between the OT and the NT:
1 Cor. 3 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. [SUP] [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [SUP] [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?[SUP] [/SUP]For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. [SUP] [/SUP]For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. [SUP] [/SUP]For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. [SUP] [/SUP]Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: [SUP] [/SUP]And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: [SUP] [/SUP]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [SUP] [/SUP]But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. [SUP] [/SUP]Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. [SUP] [/SUP]Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. [SUP] [/SUP]But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

"I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily." 1 Corinthians 15:31 . . . Yes, we do die daily - our bodies of flesh - these die daily but will be resurrected - CONTEXT - resurrection.

Also - you still didn't answer my questions . . . I guess I am wanting an honest, straight forward answer.
Why do we have a NEW Testament?
What is the purpose of the New Testament if nothing has changed and everything is as it was under the OT"?
 
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I'm done, and I think a lot of good things were brought out. My thanks to all who contributed in such a peaceful way. May God bless us all with understanding and peace through Christ our Lord.

"The Lord bless thee, and keep thee: The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The Lord lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace." Numbers 6:24-26

Quoted from the Pentateuch. :)
 
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Jesus clearly said he did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. The Law is God's holy words and he said his words will never disappear until things have come to pass, I myself find that obeying the law brings me closer to God
Acts 15
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying that it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the Law of Moses.........


[SUP]9 [/SUP]and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now therefore why tempt ye God to put a yoke upon the necks of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

[SUP]11 [/SUP]But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.”
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul as they declared what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, hearken unto me.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Simon hath declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out from them a people for His name.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And to this agree the words of the Prophets, as it is written:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]‘After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down. And I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up,
[SUP]17 [/SUP]that the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name is called, saith the Lord who doeth all these things.’
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Known unto God are all His works from the beginning of the world.
[SUP]19[/SUP]Therefore my judgment is that we trouble not those from among the Gentiles who are turned to God,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]but that we write unto them that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.



Ok, If you are a Jew and circumcised, you could keep the law all you want.

But I am a Gentile, Son of Gentiles, Not circumcised, eat pork, and do not keep Sabbaths, The law of Moses is not for me, I have the decree in white and black in acts 15.

I am a sinner, and hope Jesus will save me by his Grace. and Love. but try to keep Jesus word, Love God, and your neighbour.
 
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
Ya ok guys, you keep thinking Christ came to abolish His instructions to us. Show me specifically where He was wrong :

To know there is a God — Ex. 20:2
Not to even think that there are other gods besides Him — Standard->Ex. 20:3 Yemenite->Ex. 20:2
To know that He is One — Deut. 6:4
To love Him —Deut. 6:5
To fear Him — Deut. 10:20
To sanctify His Name — Lev. 22:32
Not to profane His Name — Lev. 22:32
Not to destroy objects associated with His Name — Deut. 12:4
To listen to the prophet speaking in His Name — Deut. 18:15
Not to try the LORD unduly — Deut. 6:16
To emulate His ways — Deut. 28:9
To cleave to those who know Him — Deut. 10:20
To love others in the faith — Lev. 19:18
To love converts — Deut. 10:19
Not to hate fellow Jews — Lev. 19:17
To reprove a sinner — Lev. 19:17
Not to embarrass others — Lev. 19:17
Not to oppress the weak — Ex. 22:21
Not to speak derogatorily of others — Lev. 19:16
Not to take revenge — Lev. 19:18
Not to bear a grudge — Lev. 19:18
To learn Torah — Deut. 6:7
To honor those who teach and know Torah — Lev. 19:32
Not to inquire into idolatry — Lev. 19:4
Not to follow the whims of your heart or what your eyes see — Num. 15:39
Not to blaspheme — Ex. 22:27
Not to worship idols in the manner they are worshiped — Standard->Ex. 20:6 Yemenite->Ex. 20:5
Not to worship idols in the four ways we worship God — Standard->Ex. 20:6 Yemenite->Ex. 20:5
Not to make an idol for yourself — Standard->Ex. 20:5 Yemenite->Ex. 20:4
Not to make an idol for others — Lev. 19:4
Not to turn a city to idolatry — Deut. 13:14
Not to derive benefit from it — Deut. 13:18
Not to missionize an individual to idol worship — Deut. 13:12
Not to love the idolater — Deut. 13:9
Not to cease hating the idolater — Deut. 13:9
Not to save the idolater — Deut. 13:9
Not to say anything in the idolater's defense — Deut. 13:9
Not to refrain from incriminating the idolater — Deut. 13:9
Not to prophesize in the name of idolatry — Deut. 13:14
Not to listen to a false prophet — Deut. 13:4
Not to prophesize falsely in the name of God — Deut. 18:20
Not to be afraid of the false prophet — Deut. 18:22
Not to swear in the name of an idol — Ex. 23:13
Not to perform ov (medium) — Lev. 19:31
Not to perform yidoni ("magical seer") — Lev. 19:31
Not to pass your children through the fire to Molech — Lev. 18:21
Not to erect a pillar in a public place of worship — Deut. 16:22
Not to bow down before a smooth stone — Lev. 26:1
To destroy idols and their accessories — Deut. 12:2
Not to derive benefit from idols and their accessories — Deut. 7:26
Not to derive benefit from ornaments of idols — Deut. 7:25
Not to make a covenant with idolaters —Deut. 7:2
Not to show favor to them — Deut. 7:2
Not to let them dwell in the Land of Israel — Ex. 23:33
Not to imitate them in customs and clothing — Lev. 20:23
Not to be superstitious — Lev. 19:26
Not to go into a trance to foresee events, etc. — Deut. 18:10
Not to engage in divination or soothsaying — Lev. 19:26
Not to mutter incantations — Deut. 18:11
Not to attempt to contact the dead — Deut. 18:11
Not to consult the ov — Deut. 18:11
Not to consult the yidoni — Deut. 18:11
Not to perform acts of magic — Deut. 18:10
Men must not wear women's clothing — Deut. 22:5
Women must not wear men's clothing — Deut. 22:5
Not to tear the skin in mourning — Deut. 14:1
Not to make a bald spot in mourning — Deut. 14:1
To repent and confess wrongdoings — Num. 5:7
To pray every day — Ex. 23:25
Not to have sexual relations with women not thus married — Deut. 23:18
Not to withhold food, clothing, and sexual relations from your wife — Ex. 21:10
To have children with one's wife — Gen. 1:28
To issue a divorce by means of a Get document — Deut. 24:1
Not to have sexual relations with your mother — Lev. 18:7
Not to have sexual relations with your father's wife — Lev. 18:8
Not to have sexual relations with your sister — Lev. 18:9
Not to have sexual relations with your father's wife's daughter — Lev. 18:11
Not to have sexual relations with your son's daughter — Lev. 18:10
Not to have sexual relations with your daughter — Lev. 18:10
Not to have sexual relations with your daughter's daughter — Lev. 18:10
Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her daughter — Lev. 18:17
Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her son's daughter — Lev. 18:17
Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her daughter's daughter — Lev. 18:17
Not to have sexual relations with your father's sister — Lev. 18:12
Not to have sexual relations with your mother's sister — Lev. 18:13
Not to have sexual relations with your father's brother's wife — Lev. 18:14
Not to have sexual relations with your son's wife — Lev. 18:15
Not to have sexual relations with your brother's wife — Lev. 18:16
Not to have sexual relations with your wife's sister — Lev. 18:18
A man must not have sexual relations with an animal — Lev. 18:23
A woman must not have sexual relations with an animal — Lev. 18:23
A man must not have sexual relations with a man — Lev. 18:22
Not to have sexual relations with your father — Lev. 18:7
Not to have sexual relations with your father's brother — Lev. 18:14
Not to have sexual relations with someone else's wife — Lev. 18:20
Not to have sexual relations with a menstrually impure woman — Lev. 18:19
Not to marry non-Jews — Deut. 7:3
Not to drink wine poured in service to idols — Deut. 32:38
Not to slaughter an animal and its offspring on the same day — Lev. 22:28
To separate the "tithe for the poor" — Deut. 14:28
To give charity — Deut. 15:8
Not to withhold charity from the poor — Deut. 15:7
Not to steal money stealthily — Lev. 19:11
The court must implement punitive measures against the thief — Ex. 21:37
Each individual must ensure that his scales and weights are accurate — Lev. 19:36
Not to commit injustice with scales and weights — Lev. 19:35
Not to possess inaccurate scales and weights even if they are not for use — Deut. 25:13
Not to move a boundary marker to steal someone's property — Deut. 19:14
Not to kidnap — Standard->Ex. 20:14 Yemenite->Ex. 20:13
Not to rob openly — Lev. 19:13
Not to withhold wages or fail to repay a debt — Lev. 19:13
Not to covet and scheme to acquire another's possession — Standard->Ex. 20:15 Yemenite->Ex. 20:14
Not to desire another's possession — Standard->Deut. 5:19 Yemenite->Deut. 5:18
Return the robbed object or its value — Lev. 5:23
Not to ignore a lost object — Deut. 22:3
Return the lost object — Deut. 22:1
The court must implement laws against the one who assaults another or damages another's property — Ex. 21:18
Not to murder — Standard->Ex. 20:13 Yemenite->Ex. 20:12
Not to accept monetary restitution to atone for the murderer — Num. 35:31
The court must send the accidental murderer to a city of refuge — Num. 35:25
Not to accept monetary restitution instead of being sent to a city of refuge — Num. 35:32
Not to kill the murderer before he stands trial — Num. 35:12
Save someone being pursued even by taking the life of the pursuer — Deut. 25:12
Not to pity the pursuer — Num. 35:12
Not to stand idly by if someone's life is in danger — Lev. 19:16
Designate cities of refuge and prepare routes of access — Deut. 19:3
Not to allow pitfalls and obstacles to remain on your property — Deut. 22:8
Make a guard rail around flat roofs — Deut. 22:8
Not to put a stumbling block before a blind man (nor give harmful advice) — Lev. 19:14
Help another remove the load from a beast which can no longer carry it — Ex. 23:5
Help others load their beast — Deut. 22:4
Not to leave others distraught with their burdens (but to help either load or unload) — Deut. 22:4
Conduct sales according to Torah law — Lev. 25:14
Not to overcharge or underpay for an article — Lev. 25:14
Not to insult or harm anybody with words — Lev. 25:17
Not to cheat a convert monetarily — Ex. 22:20
Not to insult or harm a convert with words — Ex. 22:20
Not to extradite a slave who fled to (Biblical) Israel — Deut. 23:16
Not to wrong a slave who has come to Israel for refuge — Deut. 23:16
Not to delay payment of wages past the agreed time — Lev. 19:13
The hired worker may eat from the unharvested crops where he works — Deut. 23:25
The worker must not eat while on hired time — Deut. 23:26
The worker must not take more than he can eat — Deut. 23:25
Not to muzzle an ox while plowing — Deut. 25:4
Lend to the poor and destitute — Ex. 22:24
Not to press them for payment if you know they don't have it — Ex. 22:24
Press the idolater for payment — Deut. 15:3
The creditor must not forcibly take collateral — Deut. 24:10
Return the collateral to the debtor when needed — Deut. 24:13
Not to delay its return when needed — Deut. 24:12
Not to demand collateral from a widow — Deut. 24:17
Not to demand as collateral utensils needed for preparing food — Deut. 24:6
Not to lend with interest — Lev. 25:37
Not to borrow with interest — Deut. 23:20
Not to intermediate in an interest loan, guarantee, witness, or write the promissory note — Ex. 22:24
A judge must not pity the murderer or assaulter at the trial — Deut. 19:13
A judge must not have mercy on the poor man at the trial — Lev. 19:15
A judge must not respect the great man at the trial — Lev. 19:15
A judge must not decide unjustly the case of the habitual transgressor — Ex. 23:6
A judge must not pervert justice — Lev. 19:15
A judge must not pervert a case involving a convert or orphan — Deut. 24:17
Judge righteously — Lev. 19:15
The judge must not fear a violent man in judgment — Deut. 1:17
Judges must not accept bribes — Ex. 23:8
Judges must not accept testimony unless both parties are present — Ex. 23:1
Not to curse judges — Ex. 22:27
Not to curse the head of state or leader of the Sanhedrin — Ex. 22:27
Not to curse any upstanding Jew — Lev. 19:14
Anybody who knows evidence must testify in court — Lev. 5:1
Carefully interrogate the witness — Deut. 13:15
A witness must not serve as a judge in capital crimes — Deut. 19:17
Not to accept testimony from a lone witness — Deut. 19:15
Transgressors must not testify — Ex. 23:1
Relatives of the litigants must not testify — Deut. 24:16
Not to testify falsely — Standard->Ex. 20:14 Yemenite->Ex. 20:13
Punish the false witnesses as they tried to punish the defendant — Deut. 19:19
Not to add to the Torah commandments or their oral explanations — Deut. 13:1
Not to diminish from the Torah any commandments, in whole or in part — Deut. 13:1
Not to curse your father and mother — Ex. 21:17
Not to strike your father and mother — Ex. 21:15
Respect your father or mother — Standard->Ex. 20:13 Yemenite->Ex. 20:12
Fear your mother or father — Lev. 19:3
Not to be a rebellious son — Deut. 21:18
 
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you said one end promotes but I think if you are talking about the law then the word promotes should be points out law but it sounds like you are talking about the law and not Grace.
Grace to do what exactly? To sin? Or to do that which is righteous and good? There is no inbetween thing between righteousness and sin. There are no inbetween kingdoms. One is either serving God or they are serving the devil (Which we can see by what they do). God is not against His own laws. He is against those trying to be justified or saved by a set of rules alone apart from Jesus Christ.
 
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Yes, we are more than conquerors through Christ - but I don't believe it is taking up our cross daily that makes us more than conquerors . . . What makes us more than conquerors is Christ in us to strengthen us and guide us through the gift of holy Spirit which we have been given as born again believers in Christ - NO LAW could do this. Also Christ said - Take my yoke upon you and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart and ye shall find rest unto your soul Matt. 11:29 - doesn't sound like being led to the slaughter to me.

It seems that scripture even makes a distinction between the OT and the NT:
1 Cor. 3 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

"I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily." 1 Corinthians 15:31 . . . Yes, we do die daily - our bodies of flesh - these die daily but will be resurrected - CONTEXT - resurrection.

Also - you still didn't answer my questions . . . I guess I am wanting an honest, straight forward answer.
Why do we have a NEW Testament?
What is the purpose of the New Testament if nothing has changed and everything is as it was under the OT"?
The difference is the coming of Jesus at the right time to bring His own into the fold. The change is supposed to be us, not His word that will NEVER change. The change is that all mankind have the opportunity to come into His kingdom by simply believing in Him. It came to the Jews first and through Peter's revelation of the sheet from heaven vision with all manner of animals confirms this. That's the difference between the OT and the NT. We are grafted into the true Olive Tree in Christ Jesus by a circumcised heart. (Deuteronomy 10:16, 30:6 Jeremiah 4:4 ) It is for sure a better covenant because salvation is offered to the entire world in Spirit, not physical as it was with ancient Israel. Both OT and NT recognized "faith" as being the foundation of righteousness. Hebrews chapter 11.

The inspired Word is all from an UNCHANGING God. ONE GOD= ONE UNCHANGEABLE WORD. WE CHANGE by faith. It's a gift from God!
 
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Jesus clearly said he did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. The Law is God's holy words and he said his words will never disappear until things have come to pass, I myself find that obeying the law brings me closer to God
Acts 15
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying that it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the Law of Moses.........


[SUP]9 [/SUP]and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now therefore why tempt ye God to put a yoke upon the necks of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

[SUP]11 [/SUP]But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.”
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul as they declared what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, hearken unto me.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Simon hath declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out from them a people for His name.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And to this agree the words of the Prophets, as it is written:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]‘After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down. And I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up,
[SUP]17 [/SUP]that the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name is called, saith the Lord who doeth all these things.’
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Known unto God are all His works from the beginning of the world.
[SUP]19[/SUP]Therefore my judgment is that we trouble not those from among the Gentiles who are turned to God,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]but that we write unto them that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.



Ok, If you are a Jew and circumcised, you could keep the law all you want.

But I am a Gentile, Son of Gentiles, Not circumcised, eat pork, and do not keep Sabbaths, The law of Moses is not for me, I have the decree in white and black in acts 15.

I am a sinner, and hope Jesus will save me by his Grace. and Love. but try to keep Jesus word, Love God, and your neighbour.
 
Mar 23, 2014
435
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Ya ok guys, you keep thinking Christ came to abolish His instructions to us. Show me specifically where He was wrong :

To know there is a God — Ex. 20:2
Not to even think that there are other gods besides Him — Standard->Ex. 20:3 Yemenite->Ex. 20:2
To know that He is One — Deut. 6:4
To love Him —Deut. 6:5
To fear Him — Deut. 10:20
To sanctify His Name — Lev. 22:32
Not to profane His Name — Lev. 22:32
Not to destroy objects associated with His Name — Deut. 12:4
To listen to the prophet speaking in His Name — Deut. 18:15
Not to try the LORD unduly — Deut. 6:16
To emulate His ways — Deut. 28:9
To cleave to those who know Him — Deut. 10:20
To love others in the faith — Lev. 19:18
To love converts — Deut. 10:19
Not to hate fellow Jews — Lev. 19:17
To reprove a sinner — Lev. 19:17
Not to embarrass others — Lev. 19:17
Not to oppress the weak — Ex. 22:21
Not to speak derogatorily of others — Lev. 19:16
Not to take revenge — Lev. 19:18
Not to bear a grudge — Lev. 19:18
To learn Torah — Deut. 6:7
To honor those who teach and know Torah — Lev. 19:32
Not to inquire into idolatry — Lev. 19:4
Not to follow the whims of your heart or what your eyes see — Num. 15:39
Not to blaspheme — Ex. 22:27
Not to worship idols in the manner they are worshiped — Standard->Ex. 20:6 Yemenite->Ex. 20:5
Not to worship idols in the four ways we worship God — Standard->Ex. 20:6 Yemenite->Ex. 20:5
Not to make an idol for yourself — Standard->Ex. 20:5 Yemenite->Ex. 20:4
Not to make an idol for others — Lev. 19:4
Not to turn a city to idolatry — Deut. 13:14
Not to derive benefit from it — Deut. 13:18
Not to missionize an individual to idol worship — Deut. 13:12
Not to love the idolater — Deut. 13:9
Not to cease hating the idolater — Deut. 13:9
Not to save the idolater — Deut. 13:9
Not to say anything in the idolater's defense — Deut. 13:9
Not to refrain from incriminating the idolater — Deut. 13:9
Not to prophesize in the name of idolatry — Deut. 13:14
Not to listen to a false prophet — Deut. 13:4
Not to prophesize falsely in the name of God — Deut. 18:20
Not to be afraid of the false prophet — Deut. 18:22
Not to swear in the name of an idol — Ex. 23:13
Not to perform ov (medium) — Lev. 19:31
Not to perform yidoni ("magical seer") — Lev. 19:31
Not to pass your children through the fire to Molech — Lev. 18:21
Not to erect a pillar in a public place of worship — Deut. 16:22
Not to bow down before a smooth stone — Lev. 26:1
To destroy idols and their accessories — Deut. 12:2
Not to derive benefit from idols and their accessories — Deut. 7:26
Not to derive benefit from ornaments of idols — Deut. 7:25
Not to make a covenant with idolaters —Deut. 7:2
Not to show favor to them — Deut. 7:2
Not to let them dwell in the Land of Israel — Ex. 23:33
Not to imitate them in customs and clothing — Lev. 20:23
Not to be superstitious — Lev. 19:26
Not to go into a trance to foresee events, etc. — Deut. 18:10
Not to engage in divination or soothsaying — Lev. 19:26
Not to mutter incantations — Deut. 18:11
Not to attempt to contact the dead — Deut. 18:11
Not to consult the ov — Deut. 18:11
Not to consult the yidoni — Deut. 18:11
Not to perform acts of magic — Deut. 18:10
Men must not wear women's clothing — Deut. 22:5
Women must not wear men's clothing — Deut. 22:5
Not to tear the skin in mourning — Deut. 14:1
Not to make a bald spot in mourning — Deut. 14:1
To repent and confess wrongdoings — Num. 5:7
To pray every day — Ex. 23:25
Not to have sexual relations with women not thus married — Deut. 23:18
Not to withhold food, clothing, and sexual relations from your wife — Ex. 21:10
To have children with one's wife — Gen. 1:28
To issue a divorce by means of a Get document — Deut. 24:1
Not to have sexual relations with your mother — Lev. 18:7
Not to have sexual relations with your father's wife — Lev. 18:8
Not to have sexual relations with your sister — Lev. 18:9
Not to have sexual relations with your father's wife's daughter — Lev. 18:11
Not to have sexual relations with your son's daughter — Lev. 18:10
Not to have sexual relations with your daughter — Lev. 18:10
Not to have sexual relations with your daughter's daughter — Lev. 18:10
Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her daughter — Lev. 18:17
Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her son's daughter — Lev. 18:17
Not to have sexual relations with a woman and her daughter's daughter — Lev. 18:17
Not to have sexual relations with your father's sister — Lev. 18:12
Not to have sexual relations with your mother's sister — Lev. 18:13
Not to have sexual relations with your father's brother's wife — Lev. 18:14
Not to have sexual relations with your son's wife — Lev. 18:15
Not to have sexual relations with your brother's wife — Lev. 18:16
Not to have sexual relations with your wife's sister — Lev. 18:18
A man must not have sexual relations with an animal — Lev. 18:23
A woman must not have sexual relations with an animal — Lev. 18:23
A man must not have sexual relations with a man — Lev. 18:22
Not to have sexual relations with your father — Lev. 18:7
Not to have sexual relations with your father's brother — Lev. 18:14
Not to have sexual relations with someone else's wife — Lev. 18:20
Not to have sexual relations with a menstrually impure woman — Lev. 18:19
Not to marry non-Jews — Deut. 7:3
Not to drink wine poured in service to idols — Deut. 32:38
Not to slaughter an animal and its offspring on the same day — Lev. 22:28
To separate the "tithe for the poor" — Deut. 14:28
To give charity — Deut. 15:8
Not to withhold charity from the poor — Deut. 15:7
Not to steal money stealthily — Lev. 19:11
The court must implement punitive measures against the thief — Ex. 21:37
Each individual must ensure that his scales and weights are accurate — Lev. 19:36
Not to commit injustice with scales and weights — Lev. 19:35
Not to possess inaccurate scales and weights even if they are not for use — Deut. 25:13
Not to move a boundary marker to steal someone's property — Deut. 19:14
Not to kidnap — Standard->Ex. 20:14 Yemenite->Ex. 20:13
Not to rob openly — Lev. 19:13
Not to withhold wages or fail to repay a debt — Lev. 19:13
Not to covet and scheme to acquire another's possession — Standard->Ex. 20:15 Yemenite->Ex. 20:14
Not to desire another's possession — Standard->Deut. 5:19 Yemenite->Deut. 5:18
Return the robbed object or its value — Lev. 5:23
Not to ignore a lost object — Deut. 22:3
Return the lost object — Deut. 22:1
The court must implement laws against the one who assaults another or damages another's property — Ex. 21:18
Not to murder — Standard->Ex. 20:13 Yemenite->Ex. 20:12
Not to accept monetary restitution to atone for the murderer — Num. 35:31
The court must send the accidental murderer to a city of refuge — Num. 35:25
Not to accept monetary restitution instead of being sent to a city of refuge — Num. 35:32
Not to kill the murderer before he stands trial — Num. 35:12
Save someone being pursued even by taking the life of the pursuer — Deut. 25:12
Not to pity the pursuer — Num. 35:12
Not to stand idly by if someone's life is in danger — Lev. 19:16
Designate cities of refuge and prepare routes of access — Deut. 19:3
Not to allow pitfalls and obstacles to remain on your property — Deut. 22:8
Make a guard rail around flat roofs — Deut. 22:8
Not to put a stumbling block before a blind man (nor give harmful advice) — Lev. 19:14
Help another remove the load from a beast which can no longer carry it — Ex. 23:5
Help others load their beast — Deut. 22:4
Not to leave others distraught with their burdens (but to help either load or unload) — Deut. 22:4
Conduct sales according to Torah law — Lev. 25:14
Not to overcharge or underpay for an article — Lev. 25:14
Not to insult or harm anybody with words — Lev. 25:17
Not to cheat a convert monetarily — Ex. 22:20
Not to insult or harm a convert with words — Ex. 22:20
Not to extradite a slave who fled to (Biblical) Israel — Deut. 23:16
Not to wrong a slave who has come to Israel for refuge — Deut. 23:16
Not to delay payment of wages past the agreed time — Lev. 19:13
The hired worker may eat from the unharvested crops where he works — Deut. 23:25
The worker must not eat while on hired time — Deut. 23:26
The worker must not take more than he can eat — Deut. 23:25
Not to muzzle an ox while plowing — Deut. 25:4
Lend to the poor and destitute — Ex. 22:24
Not to press them for payment if you know they don't have it — Ex. 22:24
Press the idolater for payment — Deut. 15:3
The creditor must not forcibly take collateral — Deut. 24:10
Return the collateral to the debtor when needed — Deut. 24:13
Not to delay its return when needed — Deut. 24:12
Not to demand collateral from a widow — Deut. 24:17
Not to demand as collateral utensils needed for preparing food — Deut. 24:6
Not to lend with interest — Lev. 25:37
Not to borrow with interest — Deut. 23:20
Not to intermediate in an interest loan, guarantee, witness, or write the promissory note — Ex. 22:24
A judge must not pity the murderer or assaulter at the trial — Deut. 19:13
A judge must not have mercy on the poor man at the trial — Lev. 19:15
A judge must not respect the great man at the trial — Lev. 19:15
A judge must not decide unjustly the case of the habitual transgressor — Ex. 23:6
A judge must not pervert justice — Lev. 19:15
A judge must not pervert a case involving a convert or orphan — Deut. 24:17
Judge righteously — Lev. 19:15
The judge must not fear a violent man in judgment — Deut. 1:17
Judges must not accept bribes — Ex. 23:8
Judges must not accept testimony unless both parties are present — Ex. 23:1
Not to curse judges — Ex. 22:27
Not to curse the head of state or leader of the Sanhedrin — Ex. 22:27
Not to curse any upstanding Jew — Lev. 19:14
Anybody who knows evidence must testify in court — Lev. 5:1
Carefully interrogate the witness — Deut. 13:15
A witness must not serve as a judge in capital crimes — Deut. 19:17
Not to accept testimony from a lone witness — Deut. 19:15
Transgressors must not testify — Ex. 23:1
Relatives of the litigants must not testify — Deut. 24:16
Not to testify falsely — Standard->Ex. 20:14 Yemenite->Ex. 20:13
Punish the false witnesses as they tried to punish the defendant — Deut. 19:19
Not to add to the Torah commandments or their oral explanations — Deut. 13:1
Not to diminish from the Torah any commandments, in whole or in part — Deut. 13:1
Not to curse your father and mother — Ex. 21:17
Not to strike your father and mother — Ex. 21:15
Respect your father or mother — Standard->Ex. 20:13 Yemenite->Ex. 20:12
Fear your mother or father — Lev. 19:3
Not to be a rebellious son — Deut. 21:18
I will show you:

Deuteronomy 21 (KJ21)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]“When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands and thou hast taken them captive,
[SUP]11 [/SUP]and seest among the captives a beautiful woman and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her for thy wife,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]then thou shalt bring her home to thine house. And she shall shave her head and pare her nails;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]and she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house and bewail her father and her mother a full month. And after that thou shalt go in unto her and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will, but thou shalt not sell her at all for money; thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.




You Kidnap the poor woman/virgen, you with compassion make her cry for family, then you rape her, and force to be your wife, but if you have no enough pleasure on her, let her go.... it is just ok.... I think I read some thing similar in a Muslim book
, Mohamed did just that with his last wife, the one that some tradition says put poison in some meat and killed him.

(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.


What????
A man could sell his daughter as a slave? and He has to please the men? , please the men in the bed?
but a man can not sell the poor girl to aliens just to Israelites, is this a sex slave Moses law?
 
Last edited:
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
Acts 15
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying that it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the Law of Moses.........


[SUP]9 [/SUP]and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now therefore why tempt ye God to put a yoke upon the necks of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

[SUP]11 [/SUP]But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.”
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul as they declared what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, hearken unto me.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Simon hath declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out from them a people for His name.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And to this agree the words of the Prophets, as it is written:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]‘After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down. And I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up,
[SUP]17 [/SUP]that the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name is called, saith the Lord who doeth all these things.’
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Known unto God are all His works from the beginning of the world.
[SUP]19[/SUP]Therefore my judgment is that we trouble not those from among the Gentiles who are turned to God,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]but that we write unto them that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.



Ok, If you are a Jew and circumcised, you could keep the law all you want.

But I am a Gentile, Son of Gentiles, Not circumcised, eat pork, and do not keep Sabbaths, The law of Moses is not for me, I have the decree in white and black in acts 15.

I am a sinner, and hope Jesus will save me by his Grace. and Love. but try to keep Jesus word, Love God, and your neighbour.
Would you be open to considering/testing some things from and pertaining to the Bible?
 
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
I will show you:

Deuteronomy 21 (KJ21)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]“When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands and thou hast taken them captive,
[SUP]11 [/SUP]and seest among the captives a beautiful woman and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her for thy wife,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]then thou shalt bring her home to thine house. And she shall shave her head and pare her nails;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]and she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house and bewail her father and her mother a full month. And after that thou shalt go in unto her and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will, but thou shalt not sell her at all for money; thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.




You Kidnap the poor woman/virgen, you with compassion make her cry for family, then you rape her, and force to be your wife, but if you have no enough pleasure on her, let her go.... it is just ok.... I think I read some thing similar in a Muslim book
, Mohamed did just that with his last wife, the one that some tradition says put poison in some meat and killed him.

(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.


What????
A man could sell his daughter as a slave? and He has to please the men? , please the men in the bed?
but a man can not sell the poor girl to aliens just to Israelites, is this a sex slave Moses law?
Yes, I've seen your thread on this topic. What is your intent? To learn/understand or ...
 
Jul 22, 2014
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remember that it was in the spirit that we were saved and then the spirit was sealed
Circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant and we can clearly see that such a seal could be broken.

Romans 4:11
And
he received the sign of circumcision, a SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also


This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.

Romans 2:25-27
For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law: but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.

Acts. 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

John 14:15-16
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever
Romans 8:9-10
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.

Isaiah 63:10
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: THEREFORE he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. —

Isaiah 63:14
As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.


In the NT the ”rest” is the eternal rest that all believers will attain. The book of Hebrews continually speak of the promise of eternal rest, in combination with WARNINGS to believers not to miss out on this promised rest through hardening their hearts in unbelief, just as the Israelites did who rebelled against God during the Exodus.

Hebrews 3:6-19
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we,if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
 
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
Why do we have a NEW Testament?
What is the purpose of the New Testament if nothing has changed and everything is as it was under the OT"?
The OT didn't record the life of our Lord as He hadn't come yet. He came to fully teach His commandments and lay down His life for His sheep. That is what the NT does, it fully teaches us about the Lord's commandments and how to obey them from the heart through the Spirit and out of love.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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so then if we sin in the body the spirit did not participate.
What? That's crazy. I am sorry. How can you honestly say you stand for God and His goodness that is within His Word and then say that when you sin, you sin in the body but not in the spirit? If that is not the biggest license to sin and still be saved, I don't know what is. So you are basically saying you can get away with evil and still be in God's good graces. What about everyone else who does evil? Does having a belief on Jesus really make you a better person? No. But if you repent of your sins and accept Jesus for real, then you will be transformed spiritually whereby you will not want to sin against God and or other people. For you know the good guys from the bad guys by what they do. The Bible agrees with that line of thinking. For he that does righteousness is righteous.

Under Grace GOD is faithful if we confess our sins to forgive us of our sins and cleanse us from all righteousness.

You will have to forgive me for not copying and pasting scriptures I'm on my tablet and it more difficult.
Confession of sin is done with the intent that you will not do it again. It is not done so as merely to pay lip service. One has to actually turn from their evil ways and or strive to stop sinning with God's help. For if a man says he is sorry to his wife that he cheated on her, is he really sorry if he continues to cheat on her? No. That is not true repentance. Nor is it Godly sorrow.
 
Mar 23, 2014
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Yes, I've seen your thread on this topic. What is your intent? To learn/understand or ...
My purpose? I have explained it. Is to open the eyes of people who believe in the law and the imperfections of the law, Jesus established the Grace two commandments Love God and Love others.

And also for those who takes the old testament in a literal form, to show them the old testament actually makes God to say the cultural uses of those early days, and they protrait God a revengeful being who condones Genocide, rape of woman, slavery, and allow you to sell your daughters as slaves, and does not show the Loving God of the New testament, that Jesus came to show.

Obiously you have no answers, this is why you asking my motives!
 
Mar 4, 2013
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To Jason0047
I disagree with your statement "Circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant and we can clearly see that such a seal could be broken." It cannot be broken according to the following scripture. Physical circumcision was not instigated through Moses. The Physical was the sign of the covenant with Abraham. circumcising of the heart was then endorsed from the writings of Moses for the first time, and is also a substantial part of the New Covenant.

"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:29

Colossians 2:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

See Deuteronomy 10:16 and Deuteronomy 30:6

Leviticus 12:3 is a carry over of the covenant with Abraham that was not initiated by the covenant with Israel.