Jesus's Genealogy
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Mary's mother was 100% Aaronic (priest)
Mary's father was 100% Judahite (king)
Jesus was born of Mary (Son of Man) - making Him equally and purely of Aaron and Judah.
conceived of the Holy Spirit - SON OF GOD
that makes Jesus according to Law perfectly King, Priest and God, come into the world in the likeness of sinful flesh, for our sake.
Mary's father was 100% Judahite (king)
Jesus was born of Mary (Son of Man) - making Him equally and purely of Aaron and Judah.
conceived of the Holy Spirit - SON OF GOD
that makes Jesus according to Law perfectly King, Priest and God, come into the world in the likeness of sinful flesh, for our sake.
Do you believe all scripture in the holy bible is inspired by God?
in Christ
in Christ
You said that Aaronite descendants have rightful place to be priests, but Hebrews says that the priesthood has changed -- it is NOT of Aaron, but after the order of Melchizedek. You are stating things about which you have no idea; you shouldn't do that, because this is a serious discussion about whether certain writings should be trusted as absolutely inerrant and trustworthy -- that they can be leaned upon, and my eternal soul can rest in their trustworthiness.
If there are two or three witnesses to establish a fact, and no Scriptures to contradict those assertions, then it can be a fact I believe in.
where did i ever say the aaronic line has a right to be priest? ever?
please provide that statement.
what i said (actually God said) was that according to all the Law and Promises, Jesus fulfilled every requirement under The Law to be both King and Priest.
we all know that both offices are no longer of man, and that there is one King and One Priest over all.
you've misunderstood what i wrote (that's okay).
the topic was genealogies.
Hebrews 10
1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21And having an high priest over the house of God; 22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised) 24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
please provide that statement.
what i said (actually God said) was that according to all the Law and Promises, Jesus fulfilled every requirement under The Law to be both King and Priest.
we all know that both offices are no longer of man, and that there is one King and One Priest over all.
you've misunderstood what i wrote (that's okay).
the topic was genealogies.
Hebrews 10
1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21And having an high priest over the house of God; 22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised) 24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Do you believe God has preserved His inspired word for today's generation?
Isaiah 30:8
Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book,
that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever.
Isaiah 34:16
Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail,
none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
Psalm 12:6-7
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Isaiah 30:8
Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book,
that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever.
Isaiah 34:16
Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail,
none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
Psalm 12:6-7
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
There are a few Levi's and Judah's in Mary's genealogy, but these are not the original Levi and nothing other than Mary's relative Elizabeth provides evidence that she has ties to Levi and ties to the Aaronic priesthood. If it were not for the biological ties, through Mary, to Aaron then I don't think it could have been argued that Jesus would be allowed to be a priest other than for some reason outside of God's rules. And if we threw out God's rules then whether or not Jesus was from Judah would not matter either. But since Jesus may have Aaronic biological heritage he can be a priest (and Cohen Hagadol I think), and since Mary either married into or was raised up in the tribe of Judah - specifically the lineage of David's - then Jesus also has right to the throne of David. So I think it all is taken care of because of Mary and Joseph doesn't even necessarily need to be counted into the equation since he is also from David's lineage.
Yeah. I thought about it a little more. Mary has biological heritage from both Judah (specifically David's lineage) and from Aaron's lineage since her relative Elizabeth is called a daughter of Aaron. If her biological relative is a daughter of Aaron then it would seem to follow that Mary has biological heritage from Aaron as well. So she has Judah (David - King's Lineage) and Levi (Aaron - High Priest's Lineage) within her.
Yeah. I thought about it a little more. Mary has biological heritage from both Judah (specifically David's lineage) and from Aaron's lineage since her relative Elizabeth is called a daughter of Aaron. If her biological relative is a daughter of Aaron then it would seem to follow that Mary has biological heritage from Aaron as well. So she has Judah (David - King's Lineage) and Levi (Aaron - High Priest's Lineage) within her.
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Hebrews 7
1This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High.
Stop right there -- here is the reason why Jesus is King and Priest: He is after the order of MELCHIZEDEK; NOT because He was born of Aaronic lineage and Davidic lineage. You confidently affirm things -- things about which you do not know.
He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, 2and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, his name means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 3Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.
4Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder! 5Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, their brothers—even though their brothers are descended from Abraham. 6This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi,
Jesus is "after the order of Melchizedek", and DOES NOT TRACE HIS LINEAGE FROM AARON.
yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater. 8In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. 9One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, 10because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.
11If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?
Jesus DOES NOT need to be of Aaronic descent to be a priest, because a priest of ANOTHER order -- after Melchizedek's order -- was coming.
12For, when there is a change of the priesthood,
Need this text say more?
there must also be a change of the law. 13He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe, Moses said nothing about priests. 15And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17For it is declared:
“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”a
18The former regulation [Levitical/Aaronic priesthood] is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
20And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:
“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’”b
22Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
A better covenant, a change of priesthood (NOT Aaronic descent, which you attempted to assert without basis in order to establish Miriam's descent)
23Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore he is able to save completelyc those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
26Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.
These all prove, again, that the priesthood has changed -- and your assertion that Miriam was of Aaron has no basis (nor is it even called for or necessary) whatsoever.
First of all, every Scripture you just quoted is from the Old Testament.
Second of all, God puts a curse on people who add to or take away from the Torah (and Revelation); this PROVES that the Word can be corrupted -- or else the warning wouldn't exist!
Thirdly, the argument "don't you believe God can keep His Word preserved?" is a baseless one, without any evidence, and based purely on nothing at all. Does God prevent murder? No. Why would He prevent the corrupting of His Word? That makes NO sense at all, and if it were true, it would nullify the verses that curse those who add to or take away from Torah (and Revelation), by the mere fact that it would present a situation where those warnings have NO MERIT, and should not have even been issued, and therefore, it makes God (humanly speaking) into a liar and a fool, for being illogical inasmuch as He has issued illogical decrees (of course, that is impossible).
Garbage.
1This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High.
Stop right there -- here is the reason why Jesus is King and Priest: He is after the order of MELCHIZEDEK; NOT because He was born of Aaronic lineage and Davidic lineage. You confidently affirm things -- things about which you do not know.
He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, 2and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, his name means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 3Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.
4Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder! 5Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, their brothers—even though their brothers are descended from Abraham. 6This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi,
Jesus is "after the order of Melchizedek", and DOES NOT TRACE HIS LINEAGE FROM AARON.
yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater. 8In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. 9One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, 10because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.
11If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?
Jesus DOES NOT need to be of Aaronic descent to be a priest, because a priest of ANOTHER order -- after Melchizedek's order -- was coming.
12For, when there is a change of the priesthood,
Need this text say more?
there must also be a change of the law. 13He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe, Moses said nothing about priests. 15And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17For it is declared:
“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”a
18The former regulation [Levitical/Aaronic priesthood] is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
20And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:
“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’”b
22Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
A better covenant, a change of priesthood (NOT Aaronic descent, which you attempted to assert without basis in order to establish Miriam's descent)
23Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore he is able to save completelyc those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
26Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.
These all prove, again, that the priesthood has changed -- and your assertion that Miriam was of Aaron has no basis (nor is it even called for or necessary) whatsoever.
First of all, every Scripture you just quoted is from the Old Testament.
Second of all, God puts a curse on people who add to or take away from the Torah (and Revelation); this PROVES that the Word can be corrupted -- or else the warning wouldn't exist!
Thirdly, the argument "don't you believe God can keep His Word preserved?" is a baseless one, without any evidence, and based purely on nothing at all. Does God prevent murder? No. Why would He prevent the corrupting of His Word? That makes NO sense at all, and if it were true, it would nullify the verses that curse those who add to or take away from Torah (and Revelation), by the mere fact that it would present a situation where those warnings have NO MERIT, and should not have even been issued, and therefore, it makes God (humanly speaking) into a liar and a fool, for being illogical inasmuch as He has issued illogical decrees (of course, that is impossible).
Garbage.
thanks.
i know about the Order of Melchizedek, and the Biblical genealogies, and why they are important. things you didn't know til you read them here that's funny....but we all learn at different times, so it's okay. hint: some of us know Jesus was also fully man.
i won't bother explaining to you why it was important that Jesus was the heir of David's throne and the high priest according to Law, since though God decreed it important, made it clear (and in fact Providentially and miraculously arranged for it to be so), you say you know better and in fact 'confidently affirm' the genealogies are garbage, and God is wasting your time with the arrangement.
i'll guess you'll have to live with that.
but closing this conversation, i'll just remind you of what you skipped over (again):
have a great day
i know about the Order of Melchizedek, and the Biblical genealogies, and why they are important. things you didn't know til you read them here
that's funny....but we all learn at different times, so it's okay. hint: some of us know Jesus was also fully man.i won't bother explaining to you why it was important that Jesus was the heir of David's throne and the high priest according to Law, since though God decreed it important, made it clear (and in fact Providentially and miraculously arranged for it to be so), you say you know better and in fact 'confidently affirm' the genealogies are garbage, and God is wasting your time with the arrangement.
i'll guess you'll have to live with that.
but closing this conversation, i'll just remind you of what you skipped over (again):
have a great day
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thanks.
i know about the Order of Melchizedek, and the Biblical genealogies, and why they are important. things you didn't know til you read them here that's funny....but we all learn at different times, so it's okay. hint: some of us know Jesus was also fully man.
i won't bother explaining to you why it was important that Jesus was the heir of David's throne and the high priest according to Law, since though God decreed it important, made it clear (and in fact Providentially and miraculously arranged for it to be so), you say you know better and in fact 'confidently affirm' the genealogies are garbage, and God is wasting your time with the arrangment.
i'll guess you'll have to live with that.
but closing this conversation, i'll just remind you of what you skipped over (again):
have a great day
i know about the Order of Melchizedek, and the Biblical genealogies, and why they are important. things you didn't know til you read them here
that's funny....but we all learn at different times, so it's okay. hint: some of us know Jesus was also fully man.i won't bother explaining to you why it was important that Jesus was the heir of David's throne and the high priest according to Law, since though God decreed it important, made it clear (and in fact Providentially and miraculously arranged for it to be so), you say you know better and in fact 'confidently affirm' the genealogies are garbage, and God is wasting your time with the arrangment.
i'll guess you'll have to live with that.
but closing this conversation, i'll just remind you of what you skipped over (again):
have a great day
That was the entire point of the conversation.
Now, comes you and says that "Miriam was of Aaron, and Joseph of David (therefore, you attempted to answer the question of the contradictory genealogies), which qualifies Jesus to be a King and Priest."
I disagreed with your assertion, on the basis that it was not even necessary for the Messiah to be of Levi to be a Priest, since it was always the plan for the Messiah to be a King and a High Priest after ANOTHER ORDER (not Levitical) of Priesthood -- i.e.: Melchizedek.
That is where we're at.
Do you have anything else [concerning this disagreement that I have with you] to say for your position?
Mary was of Aaron: fact, not assumption....it's okay that you didn't know that before. you do now.
you'll have to find out for yourself why it was important that the human king and priestline offices belonged to Christ as well....but if it's garabge...meh...who cares.
looking over the thread i haven't made any assumptions. perhaps english is not your first language? that happens occassionally.
(Hint: I already knew.)
i'm sorry. i had you confused with someone else i reckon. my apologies.
...............
you've torn pages from your Bible? (New Testament? don't want to make assumptions).
so does your personally canonized Bible make more sense?
cheers.
you'll have to find out for yourself why it was important that the human king and priestline offices belonged to Christ as well....but if it's garabge...meh...who cares.
looking over the thread i haven't made any assumptions. perhaps english is not your first language? that happens occassionally.
(Hint: I already knew.)
i'm sorry. i had you confused with someone else i reckon. my apologies.
...............
you've torn pages from your Bible? (New Testament? don't want to make assumptions).
so does your personally canonized Bible make more sense?
cheers.
You have no proof for that assertion; Hebrews says what you are saying is NOT true -- inasmuch as it says, unequivocally, that Jesus is of a Tribe that NEVER was priest:
Hebrews 7:11, 12
If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For, when there is a change of the priesthood,
Hebrews 7:14
"For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe, Moses said nothing about priests."
Now, finally, you can see that when you are holding to the view that Jesus is "descended from Aaron" in ANY WAY, you are contradicting the Epistle of Hebrews.
At least it doesn't have contradictions in it.
Hebrews 7:11, 12
If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For, when there is a change of the priesthood,
Hebrews 7:14
"For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe, Moses said nothing about priests."
Now, finally, you can see that when you are holding to the view that Jesus is "descended from Aaron" in ANY WAY, you are contradicting the Epistle of Hebrews.
At least it doesn't have contradictions in it.
I do not believe Luke IS "God's Word", Luke is disproven by Hebrews, which states that Jesus was NOT qualified to be an Aaronic priest; therefore, it validates the argument that He must be of ANOTHER PRIESTHOOD -- Melchizedek: if Jesus was Aaronic, the writer of Hebrews's argument is undone.
I've heard it argued that Jesus was to be "as King David", who also wore the ephod (which only a priest could do), and ate the shewbread, which shows another facet of Christ being like David (a Son of David).
I've heard it argued that Jesus was to be "as King David", who also wore the ephod (which only a priest could do), and ate the shewbread, which shows another facet of Christ being like David (a Son of David).