Job trials... can you induce one?

[RickyZ]

My oldest friend is Jewish (observant when it's convenient). He believes that being one of the "chosen people", he needs no other ticket into heaven. I've tried over the years to talk with him about how Jesus doesn't negate his Jewishness, but instead completes it. And that is how I feel, I don't really consider myself Christian but Jewish by adoption in Christ. But he doesn't want to hear it, gets offended, walks away. And I don't push it, worst thing you can do is preach to someone who doesn't want to hear it. But when the door opens I have stepped in only to be met with the usual brick wall.

Michael wasn't born with a silver spoon, but he was given one at an early age. I don't care what the situation was or who the people were, he could get whatever he wanted out of it and them. I've been around the world with the guy, and it just always amazed me at the magic he could pull, to do as he pleased.

One night I'm praying for him, why he's so resistant, and meditating on this 'talent' of his, and it comes to me that with that kind of experience, why would he ever change? He literally had the world on a leash. Why would he disrupt that? And so, I prayed to loose demons upon him, with the charge to test him of his smug self-righteousness.

He's since lost is job. Failed (miserably, something he's never experienced) at two business startups. He was offered a job doing something he'd wanted to do his whole life, only to have to broken heartedly turn it down because of family circumstances, which includes but isn't limited to 2 suicides. He almost split from his wife, I prayed to bind that and to uphold that Godly institute, and they're doing better now. But he's out of money and failing interviews and finding himself to be suddenly quite the ghost as far as the world is concerned.

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Pause here for a moment. Is this coincidence? Is this Biblical? I feel as if God led me to impose a Job trial upon him, for the purpose of bringing down a stronghold. But what is your opinion of this, can demons be commanded in this manner?

*

I sense something coming, that it's soon to reach a breaking point. I know the power in this group's prayers, please pray and intercede that he does reach that point, and that I be placed and willing to yield to the Spirit's leadings. And that he be too.

He saw a psychic once, who told him he would be holy warrior. I think so, the difference being that she was pitching for the wrong side. satan and his crew have gone to great lengths to keep him from the truth. Please back me in prayer in bringing it to him. This one will require much to be redeemed.

 

[damombomb]

Well we all have to have that breaking point Where there is no where to turn but the Lord.
Father we thank you for opening his eyes to you and filling him with your Spirit. Let his words be yours, his thoughts be yours. In Jesus mighty name amen Let him proclaim Jesus Christ and him crucified

 

[Bookends]

I often pray that God drag my kids through the mud, bring them low so that they may cry out to God for salvation. I think it's completely biblical.

 

[weakness]

I would just acknowledge that those desires and yearnings you have ,are not your own ,but are the Spirit of christ renewing your mind and life with the righteousness of God, who has chosen his body to be his manifestation to the world, as we yield to the Spirit that works within us ..... Keep following the lords heart within you. In the true nature of a child of an indwelling God, and the measure of christ he has given to all his.

 

[enoch1nine]

Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am Salvation.

 

[TruthTalk]

And so, I prayed to loose demons upon him, with the charge to test him of his smug self-righteousness.

My view of evangelism is the same as Jesus Christ, "From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew4:17 - I think we should give our dear friends the True Gospel and then let the Holy Spirit do the saving work. Can someone please tell me is loosing demons upon our friends something that Christians should be practicing - really?

 

[Share55]

Remind me never to stumble or fall in front of you please!
How does the Bible put it? Prick their heart. Now that he is at this point where he is humbled show him where in the Bible other great men have fallen from their golden thrones like Nebechudnezzar (I think that is how you spell his name) Tell him the basic story, but prick him in the heart through his love for his family who was once up there with him and now what is to happen to them. Make sure you get him with time where he can't run off, may also be a good idea of getting time with him and his family at a nice get together so you can remind him of his pleasure of his family.

A good key to winning a soul that has a brick wall in place is to touch their heart first and be ready by praying for God to be with you as you seek to do His will which is to save mankind.

& no it is not good to wish/pray for evil upon another but God's will be done.

I also pray for God's intervention on the soothsayers account of this man's future.

 

[RickyZ]

Thank you, thank you all, you show much wisdom and understanding. As enoch1nine and Truthtalk brought up, this is not an act one would be led to often, or should seek out on their own. And yes our evangelism should be born out mostly in prayer; but you have to be willing to go where the prayer leads you. And if it means bringing down a stronghold, why would you not do that for a friend? Better he lose everything and find God, than have a bunch of stuff you can't tote to hell.

And kudos on adding the soothsayers to your prayers Share55. They need enlightenment too. May the Lord open their eyes. I could have been one of them had not God stepped in and interceeded

I don't know. My spirit is so restless now; inflicting Job trials and commanding angels is pretty advanced stuff, things I normally wouldn't tell people to seek out. And they are things God has closed the door on when I have tried to share it. But now, something's different. These are things the tribulation saints are going to have to be functional with, and maybe it's time. I've seen a lot of you voice ideas and concepts that I couldn't share 20 years ago because they would have been so misunderstood by the saints of that time. Maybe it's time we all take a good hard look at who - and what - we're fighting with.

 

[Shilo]

Pause here for a moment. Is this coincidence? Is this Biblical? I feel as if God led me to impose a Job trial upon him, for the purpose of bringing down a stronghold

1 Corinthians 5:5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.
Timothy 1:20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

But what is your opinion of this, can demons be commanded in this manner?

This from what you said was a prayer to God to help him see his need for God. Demons can not be commanded to do anything by people. Anyone who might be tricked in to thinking they can command demons are walking a very dark road that only will lead to great pain.

Just be there for him and bring God up in passing conversation and always pray keep his name before God. Keep your life above reproach so he can see you believe and do what you say. Ask God to open your eyes and ears to play your part for why he has put this man on your heart. Always remember God does the work you are the messanger.

Also stand in the gap for him against witchcraft doors he has opened. Take care God bless.

 

[RickyZ]

I like the references, they are good ones I lean on in these. But how are these people handed over? In satan's case with Job, satan sought permission and God loosed him to do it. So yes in this case they are more loosed than commanded. But Jesus commanded demon's names, and to be silenced, bound, and cast out. So they can be commanded, in at least these things.

He has to go to Florida at some point to deal with his mother's belongings (she's been moved into a home and the posessions and properties need to be dealt with). I will be there helping him, I know it tweaks him and this may be the time God moves on Him. Lord, may I not fail you when You do.

 

[RickShafer]

I wouldn't pray for hardships for someone.
- no matter how obstinate they are.
- - Too much like a curse.
- - - God can change him IF he's predestinated to be saved.
You speak the truth in love and move on.

 

[OwenHeidenreich]

i totally agree that wishing evil on people is against God, thats like treating evil with evil. God doesnt do that.

. this thread sounds to me like divination
\
like look what he's saying, "But what is your opinion of this, can demons be commanded in this manner?" and "I sense something coming,"

We Don't need to have advanced religious prayers and praying the magic words to get demons out of the way. do you realize that Faith works through LOVE? that means the faith you have in Jesus depends on how much you love him. that means that if you want to command a demon or pain to leave you have to love the person and Love God.

Sorry if i offended you, but be conscious of your identity in Christ.

 

[Shilo]

Ricky,
I am sorry forthe way I answered you , By what you wrote I can see that you did not understand what I was saying.
You can not hand a nonbeliever over to Satan he already owns him. Satan is the God of this world who has blinded the people’s mind of this world to the truth( 2 Corinthians 4:4. ) What I would say in the case of a nonbeliever is God, I trust you with the life of my friend and ask that you bring everything need into his life so that he may come to know you and find salvation.
If you look at the book of Job had an issue that God wanted to work on and brought him to Satan’s attention. God was at one time cleaning Job of a prideful thing and showing off his faith at the same time. The 2 verses I gave you are the same kind of thing. It is about believers who have turned and started doing wicked things. Jesus told what to do when this happens and this is how you turn a person who is a believer to Satan so he will see what he has done and turn back to the LORD.
Matthew 18
Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may bee stablished.’[SUP] 17 [/SUP]And if he refuses to hear them, tell itto the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. In this way the church stays focused on Jesus.
Our focus needs to be on Jesus and God . I said you cannot command demons because you cannot anytime you think something as coming from yourself you have drifted from God. It is God alone who holds the power to move anything by his choice. When you have the Holy Spirit inside you and you move according with that Spirit it is him who does the work not you. He showed us what to cast out demons. We are not to pray for demonsto be brought into someone’s life. This is like when Satan moved David to count Israel . David trusted God alone for the punishment to fall, not man or Satan. When you pray to God to unleash demons on a person you dishonor God and bring glory to Satan. You do this because you have not trusted your friend into the hand of God, but you are asking God to seek help from Satan to bring your friend to God. In this way you put Satan above the all powerful God and do not give him the glory do his name , power and authority. I do not believe this is what you were tryingto do.
When God makes areal move in our lives Satan will try and make us think we are more then we are. Just remember you can do nothing with out God but can do all things through him. Just repent and ask the LORD God to open your heart and ears to what his Spirit is saying to you about your friend.
Again , I am sorry that I answered you in a way that brought confusion. Whenever you are in doubt read the word and ask God for a clear answer.
God bless.

 

[loveme1]

Ricky, did you tell your friend what you prayed for?

 

[RickyZ]

No I have not, but it will be discussed in time. When God says it's time.

I get what some of you say about it not being our place to 'turn the dogs loose' on people, and to approach them with love, and I do. I love Michael more than anyone and pray for him in that manner every day. But as the scriptures Shilo quoted say, there are some who must be handed over for the tearing down of a stronghold. If that's what it takes to save someone I love, then yes Lord please I'm in.

And I guess that's the whole point of this all. I'm not telling people to chase this down, I just want you to be available to it should God ask you to. And it's hard to be available to things you don't know exist, or believe don't work. That's what I'm really trying to share, just know it's available, and be available yourself.

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Owen, I understand the divination reference and I take no offense from your post. I never asked for this "blessing", this ability to sense and function in the spiritual realm. To be honest, hardly a day goes by that I don't wish to be rid of it. But since that's not an option, the second best choice is to study and research and learn it, which I have spent my life doing. I don't believe scripture because it's scripture, I believe it because it best describes the 2 worlds I live in. Like I said, I could have been a fortune teller or seeer or such, very easily. I just wanted to share some insights from my experience with others.

 

[RickShafer]

So you are giving him over to satan to the destruction of the flesh so his spirit will be saved?
Paul could do that.
He was an apostle.
Be aware what curses you loose can easily be turned back on you Ricky.
Be careful.

 

[loveme1]

It is better that we fall on the Stone rather than it fall on us indeed.

You have done this for Good.

May you be strengthened and guided to shine the Light so that your friend may seek.

For indeed the Light is visible in the darkness.

 

[RickyZ]

Oh I fully understand the consequences of going wrong here, Rick. Believe me I've seen it. It's not pleasant. But just because I get hit by a stray pitch, that isn't going to stop me from taking my turn at bat. That's just what the enemy would want.

 

[RickShafer]

It's not a game Ricky.
It's not a turn at bat.
Satan isn't Nolan Ryan.
How powers are taken down is by the blood of the cross.
No shortcuts.
The devil doesn't play or fight fair.
He's a lion, he isn't a pitcher.
"The prayers of a righteous man availeth much."
"Not by might, not by power, but by My Spirit sayeth the Lord."

 

[Blain]

This reminds me of when Elijah prayed for no rain for three years,a lot of times it takes losing everything to finally seek God. What you did was indeed biblical as Elijah did something very similar.