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Elijah ascended to heaven-Heaven Defined
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/152702-body-moses-2.html#post3100890
Enoch's Translation-Enoch was martyred and died
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/152702-body-moses-2.html#post3100882
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/152702-body-moses-2.html#post3100890
Enoch's Translation-Enoch was martyred and died
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/152702-body-moses-2.html#post3100882
All men since Adam have sinned at one time or another....What is all this ruckus about...The bible says YOU are the righteousness of God in Christ....does that mean you never sinned? Of course not...Is God lying? NO. It means that you are the righteousness of God in Christ....So let me break it down for you.... You were born again...Perfectly sinless, a brand new creature like the world had never seen.... You were the righteousness of God....Two days later you slipped up. Oops...I stole a pack of cigarettes.... I'll return the cigarettes or pay for them. Then I'll ask God to forgive me... He'll wash the sin away in the blood of Jesus and guess what? You are the righteousness of God in Christ again.
How do you think Job was righteous? The same way except he was not born again...He did not have the Holy Spirit living inside him...
How do you think Job was righteous? The same way except he was not born again...He did not have the Holy Spirit living inside him...
It's appointed unto man to die once... so Enoch and Elijah are most likely the 2 witnesses spoken of in Revelation that will proclaim the Gospel night and day for 2 years (no man being able to stop them during this time) and then be martyred...
Appointed unto man once to die can also be thought of as man will leave this natural realm once... since some will go in the rapture not having seen physical death which does not mean God lied about it being appointed unto man to die once found in Hebrews 9:27
Appointed unto man once to die can also be thought of as man will leave this natural realm once... since some will go in the rapture not having seen physical death which does not mean God lied about it being appointed unto man to die once found in Hebrews 9:27
it also says in those verses, death passed on to all men, because of sin.... yet enoch
hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."
im not sure its a rucuss lol i thought it was a discussion
hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."
im not sure its a rucuss lol i thought it was a discussion
No rucuss at all... we just throwing ideas back and forth. In the end we'll have to wait and see how this stuff plays out in real time. Till then we speculate about end times stuff using scripture the best we know how.
Elijah did not see death either... eventually... both Enoch and Elijah will see death.
It's gonna be freaky to see these two in the streets of Jerusalem preaching the gospel and nobody being able to stop them for months!
I don't recall all the verses talking about these two witnesses but if you search the net I'm sure you can find some stuff on this.
Elijah did not see death either... eventually... both Enoch and Elijah will see death.
It's gonna be freaky to see these two in the streets of Jerusalem preaching the gospel and nobody being able to stop them for months!
I don't recall all the verses talking about these two witnesses but if you search the net I'm sure you can find some stuff on this.
these two witnesses ?
confirmed here revelation 11:3-4 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth."
zechariah 4:11-14 "Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? 12And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
matthew 17:3 "And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.? ( the law and the prophets who witnessed of Jesus)
confirmed here revelation 11:3-4 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth."
zechariah 4:11-14 "Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? 12And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
matthew 17:3 "And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.? ( the law and the prophets who witnessed of Jesus)
he pleased God 
remember that the bible, there are really 3 different times, the time from adam to noah, then from noah to the law and prophets, and then Jesus came in the fullnes of times. before the flood, the law hadnt come, and where there is no Law, there is no transgression. yet we see what the result of no law is, all men become fully evil. then God begins again through Noah, leading to the Law of moses and again the law allows for people to break it and become sinners condemned, because now the laws are made Known and they transgress them, thier now guilty.
finally, Jesus comes being manifest, to save the world from the condemnation. which was the ultimate purpose of God to exalt His Son as savior, redeeming man from the curse of adam. the law could be followed, but it was against our nature so it was oppresive, after Jesus works in us " the commandments arent grievous.
honestly, im not saying i know for sure that enoch wasnt a sinner, or Job wasnt, im just sticking to the scriptures that i know. death was a curse from adam because of sin that is passed on in our nature. enoch never died, thats my only point here with enoch. and God shows no favoritism among men, so in my mind, enoch had to be righteous, could be that he was forgiven or something. Just was really for the sake of discussion, i always end up learning in these threads when people will engage without it turning to a brawl
remember that the bible, there are really 3 different times, the time from adam to noah, then from noah to the law and prophets, and then Jesus came in the fullnes of times. before the flood, the law hadnt come, and where there is no Law, there is no transgression. yet we see what the result of no law is, all men become fully evil. then God begins again through Noah, leading to the Law of moses and again the law allows for people to break it and become sinners condemned, because now the laws are made Known and they transgress them, thier now guilty.finally, Jesus comes being manifest, to save the world from the condemnation. which was the ultimate purpose of God to exalt His Son as savior, redeeming man from the curse of adam. the law could be followed, but it was against our nature so it was oppresive, after Jesus works in us " the commandments arent grievous.
honestly, im not saying i know for sure that enoch wasnt a sinner, or Job wasnt, im just sticking to the scriptures that i know. death was a curse from adam because of sin that is passed on in our nature. enoch never died, thats my only point here with enoch. and God shows no favoritism among men, so in my mind, enoch had to be righteous, could be that he was forgiven or something. Just was really for the sake of discussion, i always end up learning in these threads when people will engage without it turning to a brawl
E
The book of Job is in a historical setting and to find the spiritual meaning one must understand There is a parabolic language within the scripture. Job is a picture of Christ suffering he is not Christ himself, but a picture pointing to Christ under the wrath of God, that is why God could say Job was perfect and upright in his sight because Christ was perfect under the wrath of God. God is teaching us a spiritual lesson thru parabolic language using a historical worldly story.
But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.
Christ wrote the whole Word of God, the Bible and his entire book is Written in parabolic language teaching spiritual lessons.
But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.
Christ wrote the whole Word of God, the Bible and his entire book is Written in parabolic language teaching spiritual lessons.
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he pleased God remember that the bible, there are really 3 different times, the time from adam to noah, then from noah to the law and prophets, and then Jesus came in the fullnes of times. before the flood, the law hadnt come, and where there is no Law, there is no transgression. yet we see what the result of no law is, all men become fully evil. then God begins again through Noah, leading to the Law of moses and again the law allows for people to break it and become sinners condemned, because now the laws are made Known and they transgress them, thier now guilty.
finally, Jesus comes being manifest, to save the world from the condemnation. which was the ultimate purpose of God to exalt His Son as savior, redeeming man from the curse of adam. the law could be followed, but it was against our nature so it was oppresive, after Jesus works in us " the commandments arent grievous.
honestly, im not saying i know for sure that enoch wasnt a sinner, or Job wasnt, im just sticking to the scriptures that i know. death was a curse from adam because of sin that is passed on in our nature. enoch never died, thats my only point here with enoch. and God shows no favoritism among men, so in my mind, enoch had to be righteous, could be that he was forgiven or something. Just was really for the sake of discussion, i always end up learning in these threads when people will engage without it turning to a brawl
remember that the bible, there are really 3 different times, the time from adam to noah, then from noah to the law and prophets, and then Jesus came in the fullnes of times. before the flood, the law hadnt come, and where there is no Law, there is no transgression. yet we see what the result of no law is, all men become fully evil. then God begins again through Noah, leading to the Law of moses and again the law allows for people to break it and become sinners condemned, because now the laws are made Known and they transgress them, thier now guilty.finally, Jesus comes being manifest, to save the world from the condemnation. which was the ultimate purpose of God to exalt His Son as savior, redeeming man from the curse of adam. the law could be followed, but it was against our nature so it was oppresive, after Jesus works in us " the commandments arent grievous.
honestly, im not saying i know for sure that enoch wasnt a sinner, or Job wasnt, im just sticking to the scriptures that i know. death was a curse from adam because of sin that is passed on in our nature. enoch never died, thats my only point here with enoch. and God shows no favoritism among men, so in my mind, enoch had to be righteous, could be that he was forgiven or something. Just was really for the sake of discussion, i always end up learning in these threads when people will engage without it turning to a brawl
Genesis 5:22
And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
Genesis 5:24
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Enoch walked with God...I think there was only one other who walked with God....Was God's friend. That's the whole key...We need to learn to walk with God!!
E
Enoch was a sinner. This is parabolic language and Enoch is a Picture of Christ (not Christ himself ) hence God was pleased with Him. Interesting also that Christ was taken up also when he left his apostles. A man who walked with God and did not Die in the sense that death had no eternal power over Christ. One more interesting thought is Enoch was taken just shortly before the end of the world as we see in the story of Noah. So how much time do we have since the Secound Enoch (Christ) just s few Thousand years ago?
i see an aspect of what you are saying there, i rather look at it as God is big on similitude and patterns fulfilled again and again always pointing directly to the 4 gospels whether prophetic beforehand pointing forward, or apostolis afterward pointing Back. i certainly take the events litteral, and understand also, the prophetic nature of the words and events themselves. i do believe Job was a man and the events occured just as written, but also that there is a deeper similitude and confirmation of Jesus in nearly everything in the bible
When the author of Hebrews said that it is appointed until all men to die, he was just making a general statement about the human race, two men that was known in scripture had not died but were taken by God. Also there will be an entire generation that will not die, those believers alive when Christ returns. That would be neat folks, to think that you will never have to die, even in this life.
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