This is concerning to me. Who told you to "post 16 questions?" Are you here at the directive of some person/group? If so, please tell us who he/she/they is/are. Important revelation if you honestly seek to gain credibility and acceptance here on CC in my opinion. I don't have a problem with you asking the questions...........but it does concern me that they are being asked in a "Game Show" format. Maybe some person/group has determined this is a good way to do it, but in the interest of clarity, it would be good to know who that person/group is so we will all know whose Theological Ideology is being offered to us.
Jonteels 16 questions
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Is your revelation that God DID NOT create darkness? If so, I suggest you start again with your Studies. Just saying. To believe that "darkness" was present...........EVEN BEFORE God...........is to imply that God Himself was created. Even if this is not the intent of the statement, it is the logical conclusion of the statement.
I really do not want to delve too deeply into all of this with you until you truly reveal who you are, and WHO you are representing. I have an aversion to "chopping blocks."
I really do not want to delve too deeply into all of this with you until you truly reveal who you are, and WHO you are representing. I have an aversion to "chopping blocks."
J
P_R, I dont remenber saying God created darkness. I've seen a lot of intelligent people making good points in over 90 posts on 4 forums. Maybe you misttok one of them for me.
16 questions? Dude, in 1994, we went over the whole sin thing. It seems that we wasted our time. The church needs help. The questions just jumped to 17.
16 questions? Dude, in 1994, we went over the whole sin thing. It seems that we wasted our time. The church needs help. The questions just jumped to 17.
Oh my goodness..so you have had an exact repeat of your 1994 attempt to ask 16 questions? No, I didn't catch you say that, but I may have missed it in a later post in one of the threads you started.
I bet no one apologized for their arrogant behavior toward you back then either...
A few said they were "waiting to see" amid their sneering, but no one has apologized.
They don't get it. They really don't see what they're doing. Jon, I have literally seen threads in here where the gospel was being taught and almost all who claimed to be His followers abused the one teaching it.
I know you are probably busy and you have been treated badly but I don't want you to leave. Maybe you could pm me a website where I can read some more from you...
I bet no one apologized for their arrogant behavior toward you back then either...
A few said they were "waiting to see" amid their sneering, but no one has apologized.
They don't get it. They really don't see what they're doing. Jon, I have literally seen threads in here where the gospel was being taught and almost all who claimed to be His followers abused the one teaching it.
I know you are probably busy and you have been treated badly but I don't want you to leave. Maybe you could pm me a website where I can read some more from you...
We have a sister here, magenta. I wish Templeton could have read her posts yesterday on hell and "eternal suffering." He may have been helped. It's heartbreaking that no one helped him. No one answered, because everyone pushes the questions to the back of their mind because that's what they're taught to do, or because they are afraid that to delve into the problems would take them back to a place of no hope. But if they face the questions, the opposite happens.
I gave jonteel the first answer that it was darkness. But you don't understand what is being said.
God says, in a verse, that He creates darkness. BUT, He does not create darkness by a positive creation. He creates it by a negative creation - of casting someone to a place where He is not.
When I go into a room and turn on a light, darkness scatters. There is no way for darkness to overcome the light. The ONLY way for darkness to return is by me turning off the light. Darkness does not come into the room and scatter light. It can't. It is the light that scatters the darkness.
Any object that the light hits takes form. In darkness it had no form.
I have some questions of my own.
How is it that God did not say, Let there be darkness? The darkness just appears to be here when our story begins.
And why did God create two separate places - heavens and earth? What caused Him to do that do you suppose?
Why did He separate the light from the darkness? (Hint: We aren't talking of the sun and moon because they were created days later.)
These aren't questions to be scared of. They HELP us when we find the answers!
God says, in a verse, that He creates darkness. BUT, He does not create darkness by a positive creation. He creates it by a negative creation - of casting someone to a place where He is not.
When I go into a room and turn on a light, darkness scatters. There is no way for darkness to overcome the light. The ONLY way for darkness to return is by me turning off the light. Darkness does not come into the room and scatter light. It can't. It is the light that scatters the darkness.
Any object that the light hits takes form. In darkness it had no form.
I have some questions of my own.
How is it that God did not say, Let there be darkness? The darkness just appears to be here when our story begins.
And why did God create two separate places - heavens and earth? What caused Him to do that do you suppose?
Why did He separate the light from the darkness? (Hint: We aren't talking of the sun and moon because they were created days later.)
These aren't questions to be scared of. They HELP us when we find the answers!
Initially God created Hell for Satan and his fallen angels, not for mankind. It is due to Lucifer's rebellion that God created Hell, and it just so happened that there is now a place for man to go if he so chooses to reject Jesus Christ. People who are outside of Christ are already condemned, which is why Jesus came to save and not condemn the world.
God's desire is that all be saved, but as a result of sin it has separated mankind from God because there can be no darkness in light. Hence, Jesus came to save humanity; he came to reconcile the world to God. Hell is not an ultimatum of choice but rather circumstance. Man has sin ergo he needs saving from Hell. In comes the Savior, Jesus Christ dying on the cross for our sins and resurrecting to justify us before God. Those that believe in Jesus then receive His righteousness, He imputes it to them, and their debt is paid by the blood of Christ. That blood cleanses us of all sin, and we stand justified before God, with no condemnation.
I am assuming your point is that people shouldn't be ashamed of the Gospel? You say to share the truth with atheists based on the premise that all that God created was good, which means Hell as well (its your proposition). Well, that may be what you need as a justification to share the Gospel and get over the perceived hump of Hell (in conversation, or a mindset to give you the courage to share regardless of people's reception to the truth of Hell's existence) but Hell is what humanity deserves.
That is why we are saved by grace because we surely haven't earned it out of merit. We are sinners, who have sinned against a holy and righteous God. A God who loves us. He took care of the thing that alienated us from Him and it was sin. Hell isn't a place reserved for sinners, Heaven is what God made for sinners. He wants sinners saved. He came for the sick, the unrighteous, as a doctor.
Hell is not a stumbling block because God's word says that it is God's goodness that leads men to repentance. There is no condemnation in Christ and Jesus came to save the world. It is good news! We don't need to tear people down about their sins, but we need to enlighten them to their dead state and their need for Christ to be made alive, to serve in newness of life. To be made a new creation so that they will be set free from sin and walk in righteousness. The totality of it all being reconciliation to God, forever.
God's desire is that all be saved, but as a result of sin it has separated mankind from God because there can be no darkness in light. Hence, Jesus came to save humanity; he came to reconcile the world to God. Hell is not an ultimatum of choice but rather circumstance. Man has sin ergo he needs saving from Hell. In comes the Savior, Jesus Christ dying on the cross for our sins and resurrecting to justify us before God. Those that believe in Jesus then receive His righteousness, He imputes it to them, and their debt is paid by the blood of Christ. That blood cleanses us of all sin, and we stand justified before God, with no condemnation.
I am assuming your point is that people shouldn't be ashamed of the Gospel? You say to share the truth with atheists based on the premise that all that God created was good, which means Hell as well (its your proposition). Well, that may be what you need as a justification to share the Gospel and get over the perceived hump of Hell (in conversation, or a mindset to give you the courage to share regardless of people's reception to the truth of Hell's existence) but Hell is what humanity deserves.
That is why we are saved by grace because we surely haven't earned it out of merit. We are sinners, who have sinned against a holy and righteous God. A God who loves us. He took care of the thing that alienated us from Him and it was sin. Hell isn't a place reserved for sinners, Heaven is what God made for sinners. He wants sinners saved. He came for the sick, the unrighteous, as a doctor.
Hell is not a stumbling block because God's word says that it is God's goodness that leads men to repentance. There is no condemnation in Christ and Jesus came to save the world. It is good news! We don't need to tear people down about their sins, but we need to enlighten them to their dead state and their need for Christ to be made alive, to serve in newness of life. To be made a new creation so that they will be set free from sin and walk in righteousness. The totality of it all being reconciliation to God, forever.
You'll notice that in God's creation there is a law of polarity. Up and then down. Right and then left. Hot and then cold. Light and then darkness. He created the light and so came with it darkness, but keep in mind that darkness is simply a lack of light. Blow out the candle and in darkness comes. Fill a room with many candles and take one out, one by one, and the room will become darker and darker until it is pitch black. Darkness doesn't overcome light, in fact light shines brighter in darkness.
In short, the law of polarity. If God created heat then coldness as well came. Light and then darkness. For a second I thought, "good and then..." but God didn't create evil. It simply is an absence of good. So is darkness an absence of light.
Maybe due to the law of polarity that we find in operation in this world we can speculate that it wasn't necessary to say, "Let there be darkness" because it would happen as a result of the laws God placed in the universe?
In short, the law of polarity. If God created heat then coldness as well came. Light and then darkness. For a second I thought, "good and then..." but God didn't create evil. It simply is an absence of good. So is darkness an absence of light.
Maybe due to the law of polarity that we find in operation in this world we can speculate that it wasn't necessary to say, "Let there be darkness" because it would happen as a result of the laws God placed in the universe?
Ben, you say God created the light and so came darkness with it.
But I am not talking about the sun and the moon!
I am talking about the light and darkness that is spoken of DAYS BEFORE the sun and moon were created.
So when you say God created the light, this would be correct for the sun, but we aren't talking about the sun.
But I am not talking about the sun and the moon!
I am talking about the light and darkness that is spoken of DAYS BEFORE the sun and moon were created.
So when you say God created the light, this would be correct for the sun, but we aren't talking about the sun.
This is new age junk, not even a meaningful phrase.
Every statement for it to be true has another statement that expresses the
opposite situation. This is just the reality of definitions. A definition distinguishes something from
something else which is its value. Because something is defined in a positive way it can be defined
in a negative way, where the object described is not present.
If I define a set of 3 things, the 3 states of water, solid, liquid and vapour, any one state excludes
being any of the other 2, not just one. I could express being not in one particular state as its
polar opposite, but this is just another way of saying the reverse of a positive affirmation of something,
so what.
Once you get into morality or very complex systems, it is dangerous to talk in these terms.
What is the opposite of murder, it is not creating life. Murder is stopping one part of a persons
ability to live, which stops them all. Creating life is a vast complex series of actions, which involve
many processes etc. so the two are not opposites, though in this polarised language can appear so.
Some say war is the opposite of peace, but in reality war is simple, a pitting of total power and ability
to kill of one society against another. Peace is a complex series of negotiations and compromises,
which is much more difficult to set up and maintain. War is the disease of a lack of compromise in
a time of peace.
These simplistic junk ideas like "polarity" give people apparent credibility when they have none.
Every statement for it to be true has another statement that expresses the
opposite situation. This is just the reality of definitions. A definition distinguishes something from
something else which is its value. Because something is defined in a positive way it can be defined
in a negative way, where the object described is not present.
If I define a set of 3 things, the 3 states of water, solid, liquid and vapour, any one state excludes
being any of the other 2, not just one. I could express being not in one particular state as its
polar opposite, but this is just another way of saying the reverse of a positive affirmation of something,
so what.
Once you get into morality or very complex systems, it is dangerous to talk in these terms.
What is the opposite of murder, it is not creating life. Murder is stopping one part of a persons
ability to live, which stops them all. Creating life is a vast complex series of actions, which involve
many processes etc. so the two are not opposites, though in this polarised language can appear so.
Some say war is the opposite of peace, but in reality war is simple, a pitting of total power and ability
to kill of one society against another. Peace is a complex series of negotiations and compromises,
which is much more difficult to set up and maintain. War is the disease of a lack of compromise in
a time of peace.
These simplistic junk ideas like "polarity" give people apparent credibility when they have none.
Darkness - Darkness existed before light was created because darkness is where
there is no light, and before light was there, there was only darkness.
It is interesting in the final analysis, without light we cannot live.
Light gives us everything we need, it is the expression of energy that allows us
to exist. The whole of our biological life process relies on light to create food,
put oxygen in the atmosphere, to keep our planet at the right temperature, so
water can be liquid and support stable living environments. In the whole of the universe
we need a range between -50 centigrade to 50 centigrade to live. Go outside this too
long and we all die.
And longer term we need between 10 to 30 to prosper. So a very small variation, in
a massively hostile environment. The more we learn this little bubble 11 miles high,
circling the globe, is stunningly beautiful and extremely vulnerable, but kept by Gods
hand. Even the moon, just the same size as the sun as we see it, causing tides
and variations, not too great but enough to bring change and movement.
Glory to God, what a creation. So vast is this creation, we appear to be one little
galaxy in an almost infinite universe, with infinite variations, it is mind blowing.
there is no light, and before light was there, there was only darkness.
It is interesting in the final analysis, without light we cannot live.
Light gives us everything we need, it is the expression of energy that allows us
to exist. The whole of our biological life process relies on light to create food,
put oxygen in the atmosphere, to keep our planet at the right temperature, so
water can be liquid and support stable living environments. In the whole of the universe
we need a range between -50 centigrade to 50 centigrade to live. Go outside this too
long and we all die.
And longer term we need between 10 to 30 to prosper. So a very small variation, in
a massively hostile environment. The more we learn this little bubble 11 miles high,
circling the globe, is stunningly beautiful and extremely vulnerable, but kept by Gods
hand. Even the moon, just the same size as the sun as we see it, causing tides
and variations, not too great but enough to bring change and movement.
Glory to God, what a creation. So vast is this creation, we appear to be one little
galaxy in an almost infinite universe, with infinite variations, it is mind blowing.
Morning Johteel,
This is what I what I am talking about in regards to jumping around, misapplying scripture and just plain rambling: What does "Here at the direction? Seriously" mean?
A good practice is to quote the person that you are replying to so that everyone knows who it is directed at. Since your post follows mine, I am assuming that it is response to what I said, but in that case your response doesn't make any sense.
This is what I what I am talking about in regards to jumping around, misapplying scripture and just plain rambling: What does "Here at the direction? Seriously" mean?
A good practice is to quote the person that you are replying to so that everyone knows who it is directed at. Since your post follows mine, I am assuming that it is response to what I said, but in that case your response doesn't make any sense.