Joyce Meyers- false teacher.

Allin · Oct 2, 2014

Maybe this thread should ask people to tell if they think Meyers is a true or false teacher and why. The main point of contention may be the word 'false'. Negative words imply an overall negative tense (while positive words imply an overall positive tense) which means that when someone says, "Joyce Meyers is a false teacher", people tend to hear it as "Joyce Meyers is a bad person (who is beyond the reach of God's Grace)." Because of the tendency to interpret negative tenses this way, some people find it hard to acknowledge false teachers as false because they don't want to see them as bad people.

I agree that Christians are supposed to test the spirits and know people, especially ministers, by their fruits. When it comes to Joyce Meyers, maybe the testimony of a Christian-turned-atheist is the least biased in this conversation. Brainfreeze posted his youtube video on Meyer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko5zkkZ0GmQ&app=desktop. In that video, the WordofFakes former Christian says in part about Meyers:

"A lot of the money that she's making is being spent directly on her and her family. Yeah, she's helping people; but if this was any other charitable organization and they were spending millions and millions and millions of dollars on their personal lifestyle... we would all have a problem with it. So, if you love her, please take her name away and pretend she's a politician for a minute, and I promise you you'll see the light."

Concise. I think that if a Christian claims to take his religion or relationship with God seriously, he should be willing to look at, consider/investigate, and acknowledge rather than deny the truth on all issues.

Deadtosin · Oct 2, 2014

Inu said:

I doubt very much that Joyce Meyer will care what I have to say just like Kenneth Copeland doesn't care to talk about his jets. I am not trying to slam her so much as I am trying to warn others who would otherwise accept her as an accurate representative of Jesus Christ.

elf3 · Oct 2, 2014

Inu said:

Kind of a good point a and this shouldn't be a "slam them" forum. As DTS mentioned in the post above mine it is our job as Christians to warn others of false teaching. Not to slam them but to really look at what they teach as truth. Is their teaching "help yourself" or reliance upon God? Now yes they do say we need to rely upon God many times but is it a main teaching or an afterthought? Do they teach the cross or do they teach self?

As with any teacher of the Bible we need to see where they are coming from. I know of some great teachers because I researched them before I read them.

sassylady · Oct 2, 2014

I just do not get where people think she is a false teacher. As elf3 says, we need to see where they are coming from. Joyce teaches from the Word, she gives God the glory, she helps people. I think for men especially she is not a super feminine woman, and some men have a problem with a woman being in charge. Put the two together and they don't like her. I've heard her teach for over 25 years and have seen the growth in her personally as well as the wonderful things the ministry does for others.

To each his own. One thing I have never heard her teach is the prosperity Gospel. She teaches practical, straight forward ways to live your everyday life according to the Word.

biscuit · Oct 2, 2014

Yes, like many Christians, I have a problem when these preachers' income/investments are larger than corporate executives, pay little or no taxes, and do not reinvest back into the community.

Jesus also has a problem with them also:

"Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:" (Revelation 3:17)

Deadtosin · Oct 2, 2014

[video=youtube;bYJW2nWQqfo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYJW2nWQqfo[/video]

Jamal · Oct 2, 2014

Joyce Meyers is divorced from a used car salesman. And, now she peddles the word of God with all the crookedness of a proverbial used car salesman. I watched the video in the OP, and she misrepresented the Bible throughout it. Not to mention that bizarre cackle after she read (from a bad translation) God's statement to Moses.

The statement of faith on her website is one of the worst I've ever read. Most of it is popularly believed, but at least most churches keep their popular nonsense out of their statements of faith. Most concerning is that she has replaced "repenting" of sin with "admitting" to sin. Yes, I already know she's a reprobate, she doesn't need to admit it. But, of course, she tells all the lies that tickle the ears of people: You can go on deliberately sinning, just vaguely admit to it. You can be rich, just send her seed money. You can be healthy, if you have enough faith, which comes from listening to her. And, you don't have to die because God is going to rapture you away.

Regardless of what she teaches, there are many reasons why I wouldn't have her has my preacher. A person with no formal theological education shouldn't be a pastor, such as herself. A divorced and remarried person shouldn't be pastor, such as herself. And, yes, a woman shouldn't be pastor.

Here's her picture from her bio on her website:

I expect her husband is several inches taller than her. But, she wants us to know who's the head.

prodigal · Oct 2, 2014

found this old thread thought said it all really..

Default Re: Joyce Meyer: Do you like or dislike her? Explain!

The Faith Movement
The Faith Movement is the most powerful popular religious force in America. Its inspirational and self-help literature can be found at the top the New York Times bestsellers and lining the shelves at Walmart. Its celebrities pack convention centers across America for conferences designed to inspire and uplift. Its teachers fill satellite and television programming with promises of God's blessings.

The Faith Movement shares a message of abundance. Its many celebrities, teachers, and congregations find unity in its understanding that "faith" acts as a divine force. God gave all believers the ability to use their faith to bring-into-being all that is necessary to live a prosperous life. Most teachers stress that "prosperity" does not simply mean finances, but also divine health and spiritual well-being. In short, God is a God of "more than enough."
Some of the Faith Movement's most famous teachers include: Joel Osteen, Frederick Price, Joyce Meyer, Creflo Dollar, T.D. Jakes, Paula White, Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, and Benny Hinn.
The Faith Movement is undeniably global, as some of the largest Latin American, Asian, European, and African churches proclaim its message. In fact, the largest Faith congregation in the world (almost 1,000,000 strong) resides in Seoul, South Korea.

What's wrong with the "Faith" movement? Its leaders include
many of the most popular television evangelists. Its adherents
compose a large percentage of charismatic evangelical Christians.
Its emphases on faith, the authority of the believer, and the
absolute veracity of Scripture could appear to be just what today's
church needs. And yet, I am convinced that this movement poses one
of the greatest contemporary threats to orthodox Christianity from
within. Through it, cultic theology is being increasingly accepted
as true Christianity.
This article will highlight several serious problems with the
Faith movement by providing an overview of its major sources and
leaders. Part Two will focus on the movement's doctrinal deviations
as represented by one of its leading proponents.[1]

*ITS DEBT TO NEW THOUGHT*
It is important to note at the outset that the bulk of Faith
theology can be traced directly to the cultic teachings of New
Thought metaphysics. Thus, much of the theology of the Faith
movement can also be found in such clearly pseudo-Christian cults
as Religious Science, Christian Science, and the Unity School of
Christianity.
Over a century before the Faith movement became a powerful
force within the Christian church, Phineas Parkhurst Quimby
(1802-1866), the father of New Thought, was popularizing the notion
that sickness and suffering ultimately have their origin in
incorrect thinking.[2] Quimby's followers held that man could
create his own reality through the power of positive affirmation
(confession).[3] Metaphysical practitioners have long taught
adherents to visualize health and wealth, and then to affirm or
confess them with their mouths so that the intangible images may be
transformed into tangible realities.[4]
Although proponents of Faith theology have attempted to
sanitize the metaphysical concept of the "power of mind" by
substituting in its stead the "force of faith," for all practical
purposes they have made a distinction without a difference. New
Thought writer Warren Felt Evans, for example, wrote that "faith is
the most intense form of mental action."[5] In treating a patient,
Evans commented that "the effect of the suggestion [or positive
affirmation that the patient is well] is the result of the faith of
the subject, for it is always proportioned to the degree in which
the patient _believes_ what you say" (emphasis in original).[6]
Likewise, H. Emilie Cady, a well-known writer for Charles and
Myrtle Fillmore's Unity School of Christianity, explained that "our
affirming, backed by faith, is the link that connects our conscious
human need with His power and supply."[7] Cady also claimed that
"there is power in our word of faith to bring all good things right
into our everyday life."[8] Such statements strongly indicate that
the distinction between the "mind" of metaphysics and the "faith"
of Faith theology is nothing but a figment of the imagination.

*SUBSTANCE, STYLE, AND SCAMS*
There is no denying that much of Faith theology is derived
directly from metaphysics. Some of the _substance, style,_ and
_scams_ endemic to the movement, however, can be traced primarily
to the teachings and practices of certain post-World War II faith
healers and revivalists operating within Pentecostal circles.[9]
With regard to _substance,_ for example, both Kenneth Copeland and
Kenneth Hagin point to T. L. Osborn and William Branham as true men
of God who greatly influenced their lives and ministries. Of
course, Osborn himself has consistently followed E. W. Kenyon's
(_see_ below) Scripture-twisting antics,[10] and Branham has (among
other things) denounced the doctrine of the Trinity as coming
directly from the Devil.[11]
Unfortunately, Hagin and Copeland are not alone in affirming
Branham; Faith proponent Benny Hinn gives him a hearty "thumbs up"
as well.[12] When it comes to _style,_ however, Hinn gravitates
more toward such faith healers as Aimee Semple McPherson and
Kathryn Kuhlman. In addition, Hinn has given his endorsement to
notorious revivalist A. A. Allen,[13] who was truly a huckster if
there ever was one -- which brings us to our third "s," the
_scams._
Faith teachers such as Robert Tilton and his female
counterpart, Marilyn Hickey, have copied many of the scams
pioneered by Pentecostal preachers such as Oral Roberts and A. A.
Allen. In fact, Tilton and Hickey have managed to exceed even their
predecessors' outrageous ploys. This is hard to believe when one
considers what sort of schemes they had to outdo.
Roberts, the reader may recall, is the man who claimed that
Jesus appeared and told him God had chosen him to find the cure for
cancer. In a lengthy appeal, Roberts avowed that the Lord told him,
"I would not have had you and your partners build the 20-story
research tower unless I was going to give you a plan that will
attack cancer." Roberts then said that Jesus instructed him to tell
his partners that "this is not Oral Roberts asking [for the money]
but their Lord."[14] (The project was completed, but has since been
"shut down and sold to a group of investors for commercial
development."[15] Not surprisingly, no cure for cancer was ever
found.)
In like fashion, A. A. Allen "scammed" his followers by
asserting that he could command God to "turn dollar bills into
twenties."[16] He was also known to have urged his followers to
send for his "prayer cloths anointed with the Miracle Oil,"[17] and
he offered "Miracle tent shavings" as points of contact for
personal miracles.[18] Allen even "launched a brief 'raise the
dead' program."[19] Of course, it died.
Allen was eventually kicked out of the Assemblies of God
denomination when he jumped bail after being arrested for drunk
driving.[20] In 1970 he died from what "news accounts report [as]
sclerosis of the liver."[21]
As we proceed to examine the primary purveyors of Faith
theology, we will see living proof of the maxim that "error begets
error and heresy begets heresy." If, for example, one examines the
cultic progression of E. W. Kenyon's theology, one will discover
that his original deviations from orthodox Christianity were minor
compared to those that characterized the later stages of his
ministry. And with each of Kenyon's successive disciples, the
errors become even more pronounced. Hagin, who popularized and
plagiarized Kenyon prolifically, not only expanded Kenyon's
perversions but added to them as well.[22] The progression from bad
to worse has continued with people like Kenneth Copeland and
Charles Capps, and is now reaching heretical heights that are
almost inconceivable through ministry leaders like Frederick Price,
Benny Hinn, and Robert Tilton.

Like

*THE CAST OF CHARACTERS*
Twisted texts, make-believe miracles, and a counterfeit Christ
are all common denominators of the Faith movement's leading
teachers. And, as all who look into the matter will clearly see, it
all began with the metaphysical teachings of Essek William Kenyon.

*Essek William Kenyon*
Essek William Kenyon, whose life and ministry were enormously
impacted by such cults as Science of Mind, the Unity School of
Christianity, Christian Science, and New Thought metaphysics,[23]
is the true father of the modern-day Faith movement. Many of the
phrases popularized by present-day prosperity preachers, such as
"What I confess, I possess," were originally coined by Kenyon.
Kenneth Hagin, to whom we next turn our attention, plagiarized much
of Kenyon's work, including the statement, "Every man who has been
'born again' is an Incarnation, and Christianity is a miracle. The
believer is as much an Incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth."[24]

*Kenneth E. Hagin*
As I thoroughly demonstrate in my book _Christianity in Crisis_
(Harvest House, 1993), Kenneth Hagin takes Kenyon's theology from
bad to worse. Not only does he boast of alleged visits to heaven
and hell, he recounts numerous out-of-body experiences (OBEs) on
the earth as well.
Cho recently made the news by changing his name from Paul to
David. As Cho tells the story, God showed him that Paul Cho had to
die and David Cho was to be resurrected in his place. According to
Cho, God Himself came up with his new name.[53]

*Charles Capps*
Charles Capps was ordained as a minister in the International
Convention of Faith Churches and Ministers by Kenneth Copeland and
derived his teachings directly from Kenneth Hagin. This unfortunate
combination has led Capps to make some of the most blasphemous
statements in Faith lore. Capps has gone so far as to teach that
Jesus was the product of God's positive confession: "This is the
key to understanding the virgin birth. God's Word is full of faith
and spirit power. God spoke it. God transmitted that image to Mary.
She received the image inside of her....The embryo that was in
Mary's womb was nothing more than the Word of God....She conceived
the Word of God."[54]
Capps not only preaches the blasphemous, he also preaches the
ridiculous. For example, he claims that if someone says, "I'm just
dying to do that" or "That just tickled me to death," their
statements may literally come true (i.e., they may _die_).
According to Capps, this is precisely why the human race now lives
only about seventy years instead of 900 years, as was the case with
Adam.[55]

*Jerry Savelle*
Jerry Savelle has made his fortune by mimicking virtually all
of the Faith teachers mentioned above. His greatest claim to fame,
however, may well be his ability to mimic Kenneth Copeland. In
fact, Savelle appears to be an exact duplicate of Copeland. Savelle
demonstrates a total lack of biblical acumen, as he blindly
regurgitates virtually every heresy in the Faith movement.
With regard to health, Savelle boasts that sickness and disease
cannot enter his world.[56] As for wealth, he says that words can
speak your world into existence.[57] Savelle now peddles his books
and tapes to thirty-six countries at the astonishing rate of some
300,000 copies per year.

*Morris Cerullo*
Morris Cerullo claims that he gave up a driving ambition to be
the governor of New Jersey in order to become a minister of the
gospel.[58] He purports to have first met God at the tender age of
eight. Since then his life has been one mind-blowing experience
after another: he says he was taught by leading rabbis;[59] led out
of a Jewish orphanage by two angelic beings;[60] transported to
heaven for a face-to-face meeting with God;[61] and told he would
be capable of revealing the future.[62]
On one occasion, Cerullo informed his audience, "You're not
looking at Morris Cerullo -- you're looking at God. You're looking
at Jesus."[63] Not only is Cerullo a master of make-believe, he is
also a master of manipulation. Claiming that God was directly
speaking through him, Cerullo uttered, "Would you surrender your
pocketbooks unto Me, saith God, and let me be the Lord of your
pocketbooks....Yea, so be thou obedient unto my voice."[64]

*Paul Crouch*
Paul Crouch and his wife, Jan, are the founders of the Trinity
Broadcasting Network, which today has an estimated net worth of
half a billion dollars. As Crouch himself puts it, "God has,
indeed, given us the MOST POWERFUL VOICE in the history of the
WORLD."[65] Unfortunately, this voice is being used to promote
teachings straight from the kingdom of the cults. Crouch's
influence has become so vast that he can now raise as much as $50
million during a single "Praise-a-Thon." What many of the
well-intentioned Christians who support TBN do not know, however,
is that part of this money goes to promoting cultic groups and
individuals who not only deny the Trinity but claim that this
essential of Christianity is a pagan doctrine.[66] It is indeed
ironic that a broadcasting network called "Trinity" would promote
anti-Trinitarian doctrine.
To those who would speak out against the false teachings
proliferated on his network, Crouch has this to say: "I think
they're ****ed and on their way to hell; and I don't think there's
any redemption for them."[67] Shortly after I met with Crouch to
prove that the Faith movement compromises essential Christian
doctrine, Crouch looked into the lens of the television camera and
angrily declared, "If you want to criticize Ken Copeland for his
preaching on faith, or Dad Hagin, get out of my life! I don't even
want to talk to you or hear you. I don't want to see your ugly
face. Get out of my face, in Jesus' name."[68]
Sadly, Crouch refers to the Faith message as a "revival of
truth . . . restored by a few precious men."[69]

*GENETIC DEFECT?*
The Faith movement was spawned by the unholy marriage of
19th-century New Thought metaphysics with the flamboyance and
abuses of post-World War II revivalism. It should therefore come as
no surprise that its doctrine and practices are palpably
unbiblical. Yet, some charge that critics of the movement are
guilty of committing a logical error known as the _genetic fallacy_
-- "that is, rejecting an assumption because of where it comes from
rather than disproving the argument."[70]
While the charge appears formidable, it is in fact defective.
For it assumes that the criticisms against the Faith movement are
made primarily if not solely on the basis of its historical roots.
In truth, the bulk of critical evaluations are leveled directly
against the unbiblical teachings of the movement's leading
proponents today.[71] Historical discussions have, for the most
part, served to place the phenomenon in its proper context.[72]
Now that we've dug up the roots and sampled the topsoil of the
Faith movement, we are ready to take a penetrating look at its
ripened fruit. Part Two of this article will do just that, by
systematizing and critiquing the theology of the movement's premier
preacher of another gospel.

Jamal · Oct 2, 2014

prodigal said:

The truth is, Joyce Meyer isn't a pastor, and whether she's a Christian is between her and God. What she is...

She's a deistic motivational speaker. Wait, make that a deistic self-esteem speaker. Wait, she's a drug dealer. A drug dealer hooks you on promises of feeling better, but actually a drug dealer keeps you feeling horrible so that you keep hoping according to their promises. A popular movement in today's church is for Christians to dwell on what sinners they are (Satan loves that!), no matter how much and how sincerely you might repent (which isn't recommended by drug dealers, in the first place). And, the drug dealer keeps selling you a little bit of their drugs for a temporary fix, that ends with you worse than before. "God want to heal you of poverty and illness..."

Stephen63 · Oct 2, 2014

pastac said:

Geeeee...... I feel so small, so unimportant now.... I didn't make the list..... *sob*

Stephen63 · Oct 2, 2014

Jude 1:22-23 (KJV) [SUP]22 [/SUP]And of some have compassion, making a difference: [SUP]23 [/SUP]And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

How do we do that? How do we "pull them out of the fire"? By telling them to repent & the truth of the Gospel. In that repentance we may need to tell them what sins to repent of & who, if applicable, is leading them into sin.

If I meet someone in a cult, I must try to convince them that their cult is sinful & their leader is false. Yes, I said CULT.

There is a problem in some of these "leader is sinful & followers are righteous" statements I've been hearing. A faithful follower in a cult is a sinner.

This video & explanation is "judging"? Were not his statements true? This isn't judging, it's revealing the truth to those that don't know any better.

Deadtosin said:

[video=youtube;RCImd8vZWG4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCImd8vZWG4[/video]

I youtubed "Joyce Meyers greatest teachings" and I have decided to go through the entire thing and determine the biblical accuracy of her message. I hope you watch this video and read my commentary with it. I will type this as I go.

At the 50 second mark she begins laughing at scripture but only after she posts an inaccurate version of scripture (there are many versions but that is a different study)
Here she quotes Exodus 3:14 and she posts it as reading
"And God said to Moses, I AM WHO I AM and WHAT I AM and I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE."
then she laughs saying that God didn't really tell Moses anything. Here is what the correct scripture actually reads from the KJV

"And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you."

compare those two variations. They are completely different. For God is the great I AM and this was the scripture Jesus was referring to when He said "Before Abraham was I AM." It's a claim to deity.

Moving forward.

Next she quotes Romans 9:20

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

"stifling another laugh she begins with "why do I have big hips? why do I have this deep voice? why am I so tall? why am I so short? why do my feet have to be so big? why can't I sing?

This is so absolutely removed from the meaning behind Romans chapter 9, read it for yourself

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Look back to how she painted the context of verse 20 - physical attributes, "who am I to ask why God gave me these hips, or this voice?"
She is not teaching any truth, she is actually distorting it

I skipped ahead to the 8 minute mark because it's there that she stops her personal opinions and points- returning to scripture, however the verses she is hitting are verses 21 and 22 but they are in her other bible again - see for yourself and she is still saying "God made me how He made me and I shouldn't question why He made me thus. Did you read Romans? did you see that Paul is actually talking about how people may criticize God using people like Pharaoh to give Glory unto God? This whole passage is about God's choices in how He uses people for a greater good and who are we to question God? This has NOTHING to do with how we view ourselves.

"the message here tonight, stop comparing yourself to somebody else, and just decide to get happy where you're at." Joyce Meyer minute mark 8:41

She moves on to 1 Corinthians 1:27 to show us
"why God uses the people He uses" -Joyce Meyer

"(No) for God selected (deliberately chose) what in the world is foolish to put the wise man to shame, and what the world calls weak to put the strong to shame." 1 Corinthians 27
"And God also selected (deliberately chose) what in the world is lowborn and insignificant and branded and treated with contempt, even the things that are nothing." 28
"that He might depose and bring to nothing the things that are." 29

Joyce- "Part of the reason God uses people that you would just normally think would be impossible for God to use is because they're the ones who are gonna stay on their face all the time saying Oh God, thank you thank you thank you God. You have no idea how many times a day I say oh help me God, help me, help me, help me, help me. Sometimes I think maybe I'm a mental case, help me, help me, help me. And the rest of the day I'm saying thank you God, thank you, thank you, thank you thank you. that's like my main conversation with God. God help me, help me, help me, help me."

that was the totality of her lesson on 1 corinthians 1...

but what does the bible actually say?

Read 1 corinthians chapter 1 - here is a snippet for context

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

God is teaching that to those who are wise in the flesh view the Word of God as foolishness. Do you see the difference? Joyce never actually touches base on anything the bible is actually saying.

here again look at this
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

The bible is really stating that the world is so blind that what is truly wise is seen as foolishness and what is seen as foolishness is wise, and it pleased God to do this so that when He opened our eyes to the truth that we would glorify Him and not stand boastful thinking that we ourselves are wise.. Where was that teaching? it was lost to all who followed Joyce' teachings that day.

The best way to test anyones teaching on a verse is to read the whole chapter they are quoting from, and then see if what they said measured up to what you've read.

at minute 15:35 she goes on to say "the next time a question comes in your mind, don't ask the question, just say God you don't owe me an explanation."
Is that biblical? No, because Jesus says "Ask and you shall receive."
She is trying to get all of her listeners to trust that since God is in complete control, there is no need to question anything...
15:48 "I think it delights the devil when you question God."
This reminds me of the propaganda slogan "support our troops" which was used to keep us from questioning why we went to war. They are not connected, one is used as a cover. You see, we are not questioning God. We are questioning our understanding of scripture as well as the messages we are receiving and the spirits that are feeding us these teachings. Jesus said to "try the spirits, to know if they are good."
And that's the end, she never posts another scripture again.

Jamal · Oct 2, 2014

biscuit said:

One point of yours is off, they pay the full tax rate on any money not put back into their ministry. And, corporate executes pay no taxes on "business related" luxuries. And, corporate executives compensation is often structured to avoid most taxes.

There's a big point you missed. People donate money to these preachers for the purpose of using it their ministries and helping others, not to live in luxury. People buy goods in the store to get a product, with zero regard to how the corporate revenues are spent. In other words, another sin these false preachers are guilty of theft.

elf3 · Oct 2, 2014

You wanna know one of the saddest things. I went to the Christian book store about 2 weeks ago. They had a wall of self help books. Some good some bad. The apologetics section had 20 different books (I counted them). By only 7 different writer's (I counted them too).

We will sit there and read these self help books and believe them. But do we know what or why we believe? Can we actually defend our faith? Sure there are many forums here where we can defend our faith but how or why? And look who we are defending against (for the most part)..other Christians.

Who are we following Jesus or some speaker? Do we follow some self help book or the Bible?

phil112 · Oct 2, 2014

Deadtosin said:

She dresses to be seen, wears immodest necklines, lots of makeup and jewelry, has hair shorter than a man. And she usurps authority over a man. Of course she is a false teacher. Nothing she could ever say, walking in the flesh as she does, can ever matter. You can't get sweet water from a bitter well.

newbirth · Oct 2, 2014

pastac said:

here is my main problem with all these statements. your personal opinion is in no way a fact of any matter only an opinion. no one can say who God has called or for what reasons. The word clearly tells us let the wheat and tare grow together God will do the separation. There is a lot of ignorance to scripture even for people who speak against any of Gods servants in any capacity.
The word says if you have an ought against your brother and I'm sure sister that you go to them and if they don't receive you take a witness and go back if they still don't receive you then shake the dust from your feet and move on. I see no one ever making a comment I contacted so and so with a problem I have with their teaching! It did not say bash them or give personal opinions. It is so sad that none of you realize folks on cc do the same to each of us each day.
Why then if many are so spiritual don't you get this truth. Keep your mouth and typed words off of your brothers and sisters and pray for them the prince of the power of the air often manipulates words that are typed to distort their meaning this is a fact most mean something else when typing some mean exactly what they are typing I'm not the judge but I am wise enough not to put my mouth on what I really don't know.
As for trying to determine scripture that too is a sticky issue all don't read the same bible or have the same understanding. Here is a thought what if and this is just an example. What if Joyce,Kenneth,Joel are right about their teachings and all the rest wrong or just don't have the same insight yet then what? This reminds me of the people yelling crucify him crucify him.
As a pastor it bothers me that folks opinions even when ignorant and obviously carnal and ungodly receive so many people in agreement makes you wonder or at least it makes me wonder. Just a thought.

what if spells doubt.....rooted and grounded ...does not say what if....you will know them by their fruits....and where the carcass is there the vultures will gather...If we in the church cannot judge what is right and what is wrong in the church....then we don't know the word...just a thought

elf3 · Oct 2, 2014

pastac said:

Ok folks lets have a lesson here is what it feels like when folks make open comments about other servants
dccontroversal is a false teacher deadtosin is a false teacher revelator7 is a false teacher jamal is a false teacher these people lean to their own understanding make careless remarks about Gods servants are cold and think they are above reproach

DC he missed me..I am sad lol.

elf3 · Oct 2, 2014

newbirth said:

Not only this but I didn't know the Bible was a what if book.

kennethcadwell · Oct 2, 2014

I do not defend wrong doing, and I do side with that we are to point out how others are in the wrong.

What I do say is this, be careful about who you are judging as a false teacher.
None of us are perfect, and I have seen my fair share of those on here who believe also that they are true followers of Christ and still quote scripture wrong or have/give the wrong context of a scripture.
We are all disciples of Christ, which means we all are still learning, and this means no matter how old you are. You are still a student of the Word.

Make sure everything they say is false or twisted before you claim one as a false teacher. Like I said before nobody is perfect, and just like you and me they will have to answer for the things they are wrong about or do wrong.

Romans 14:10-12
10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”
12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

1 Corinthians 3:11–15
11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

2 Corinthians 5:10
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad”

phil112 · Oct 2, 2014

pastac said:

I'm going to have to talk to my doc about the pills he's prescribed for me. Yours are clearly much stronger.

Jamal · Oct 2, 2014

elf3 said:

You wanna know one of the saddest things. I went to the Christian book store about 2 weeks ago. They had a wall of self help books. Some good some bad. The apologetics section had 20 different books (I counted them). By only 7 different writer's (I counted them too).

Joyce Meyers- false teacher.

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