judgement now? John 12:31-33

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SpiritofFire

Banned
#21
Jul 26, 2013
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#21
LT said:
I am not offended. I hope that you heed what I have said. I am just telling you plainly that you are speaking heresy.
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Would you count it a good thing for God to save all?

I know my message is not accepted. But look what is accepted. I can again start a thread complete with verses in support of the trinity, and then another rejecting that same trinity also complete with verses, AND I WOULD BE CONSIDERED TO BE SPEAKING TRUTH BY SOMEONE ON BOTH THREADS!

I'm sorry sir, but this to me is confusion. Christ is simple. I'd like to keep Him such.
 
L

LT

Guest
#22
#22
SpiritofFire said:
Would you count it a good thing for God to save all?

I know my message is not accepted. But look what is accepted. I can again start a thread complete with verses in support of the trinity, and then another rejecting that same trinity also complete with verses, AND I WOULD BE CONSIDERED TO BE SPEAKING TRUTH BY SOMEONE ON BOTH THREADS!

I'm sorry sir, but this to me is confusion. Christ is simple. I'd like to keep Him such.
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If all men repented and followed Christ, it would be very joyful. But Scripture says that this has not happened, and will never happen.

will Satan be saved?
how about unrepentant murderers?
 
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chatter23

Banned
#23
Oct 12, 2013
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#23
SpiritofFire said:
you explain the rest of the Bible when it speaks of the "coming judgement"?

As for the idea of judgement now as in we being chastised here on earth for our sin, the story of Job speaks against this. What you are saying is exactly what Job's friends were saying, and God told them they were speaking wrongly. The psalms speak against this when they talk of how the wicked prosper, and the righteous are brought low.
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[/QUOTE]

Jesus said that all He loves He rebukes and chastises. The white throne is not what you think.[/QUOTE]

I did not post here in a couple replies above here to spiritofire. Don't have a clue how that happened. OH Well.
 
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chatter23

Banned
#24
Oct 12, 2013
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#24
LT said:
If all men repented and followed Christ, it would be very joyful. But Scripture says that this has not happened, and will never happen.

will Satan be saved?
how about unrepentant murderers?
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Jesus said, "forgive them father for they know not what they do. "All were once innocent children who were corrupted by cruel people and their innocence was destroyed.
 
L

LT

Guest
#25
#25
SpiritofFire said:
2 Corinthians 5:14-16

14* For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead 15* And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again 16* Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

What does this mean to you? Now you believe you're saved. I believe all men will be saved that does not in any way impede your salvation.

So are you upset that they get the same wage as you? This is the general theme of the bible.

We all die. One man died so that all will live. Not because of what you or I did but simply because God loves us and made us all for His good pleasure.
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what about the false prophet, the anti-christ, Satan, or his followers? What about those that reject Christ intentionally? Unrepentant child molesters and rapists? What about evil men like Hitler? Will even these be saved?

If so, then God has lied, and He is not just.

If not, then God is good and just, and will deliver His perfect justice on the Last Day. Only those who accept Christ will be saved, as a remnant.
 
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chatter23

Banned
#26
Oct 12, 2013
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#26
LT said:
what about the false prophet, the anti-christ, Satan, or his followers? What about those that reject Christ intentionally? Unrepentant child molesters and rapists? What about evil men like Hitler? Will even these be saved?

If so, then God has lied, and He is not just.

If not, then God is good and just, and will deliver His perfect justice on the Last Day. Only those who accept Christ will be saved, as a remnant.
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Read my lips.
Jesus said on the cross "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do"
Shall I draw you a picture?
 
L

LT

Guest
#27
#27
chatter23 said:
Read my lips.
Jesus said on the cross "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do"
Shall I draw you a picture?
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no, simply tell me if Satan will be in heaven or hell.
and then tell me if the anti-christ will be in heaven or hell.
will evil men be in heaven?

I just a clear answer to those questions.
 
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SpiritofFire

Banned
#28
Jul 26, 2013
1,451
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#28
LT said:
no, simply tell me if Satan will be in heaven or hell.
and then tell me if the anti-christ will be in heaven or hell.
will evil men be in heaven?

I just a clear answer to those questions.
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No evil men will be in heaven. We are raised incorruptible.

Now I ask you to please tell me what is satan or the anti christ to you?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#29
Sep 4, 2012
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#29
chatter23 said:
Read my lips.
Jesus said on the cross "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do"
Shall I draw you a picture?
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A picture would be nice. I like pictures. Could you include in it all of those who turn their noses up at GOD's forgiveness and want nothing to do with him because they are righteous in their own eyes and love themselves more than him?
 
L

LT

Guest
#30
#30
SpiritofFire said:
Now I ask you to please tell me what is satan or the anti christ to you?
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I think you should answer the question first, then explain your answer if you feel it needs an explanation.
You have dodged it, which means you know that your answer either must contradict the rest of your doctrine, or goes directly against the Scriptures.
 
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Elin

Banned
#31
Jan 19, 2013
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#31
LT said:
This passage was used as a proof text in a different thread, and I am having a hard time understanding how this verse fits with a literal interpretation of the Bible, and a futurist view of the book of Revelation (or at least futurist on the Judgement).

I have looked through several commentaries, but they all seem to avoid the implications that this verse has.
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I am in agreement with Kerry's post #2.

"Now is the time for the judgment on this world;"

The cross was God's judgment on (punishment of the sin of) this world.

"now the prince of this world will be driven out."

Satan is the prince of this world (Jn 16:11), who was defeated at the cross.

We are now in the mop-up skirmish. (Post #5 is eloguently to this point.)

"When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to myself."

After his crucifixion and ascension, Christ will draw people from all over the world to himself in the gospel call.
 
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Elin

Banned
#32
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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#32
LT said:
Elin said:
LT said:
This passage was used as a proof text in a different thread, and I am having a hard time understanding how this verse fits with a literal interpretation of the Bible, and a futurist view of the book of Revelation (or at least futurist on the Judgement).

I have looked through several commentaries, but they all seem to avoid the implications that this verse has.
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I am in agreement with Kerry's post #2.

"Now is the time for the judgment on this world;"

The cross was God's judgment on (punishment of the sin of) this world.

"now the prince of this world will be driven out." (v.31)

Satan is the prince of this world (Jn 16:11), who was defeated at the cross.

We are now in the mop-up skirmish. (Post #5 is eloguently to this point.)

"But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to myself." (v.32)

After his crucifixion and ascension, Christ will draw people from all over the world to himself in the gospel call.
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Missed v. 33.

"He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die." (v.33)

"Lifted up" is a reference to the snake on the pole in the desert which healed the Israelites of snake bite.

Jesus would be lifted up on a pole/tree/cross (Jn 3:14-15) to heal with eternal life the sin of those who believe in him.
 
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chatter23

Banned
#33
Oct 12, 2013
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#33
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
A picture would be nice. I like pictures. Could you include in it all of those who turn their noses up at GOD's forgiveness and want nothing to do with him because they are righteous in their own eyes and love themselves more than him?
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Seems you love to concern yourself with who is going to hell and who is not, why don't you let God be God. You need to be concerned more about your own transgressions, That will keep you busy for awhile. .LOL You are just looking to make conversation, right?
Relax, dunt vurry.
 
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SpiritofFire

Banned
#34
Jul 26, 2013
1,451
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#34
LT said:
I think you should answer the question first, then explain your answer if you feel it needs an explanation.
You have dodged it, which means you know that your answer either must contradict the rest of your doctrine, or goes directly against the Scriptures.
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Satan is the carnal mind. Antichrist is anyone within whom operates the spirit of error.
 
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SpiritofFire

Banned
#36
Jul 26, 2013
1,451
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#36
LT said:
I see. I am sorry I cannot help.
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I don't need help, I need you just to love your brother as you do yourself.

You may hold to Lucifer or maybe even the king of Tyre but that is not what satan is.

Now picture this. You have the power to do anything you want on earth and you have not eaten in 40 days and you notice a rock that kind of looks like bread to you.

What thoughts would be going on in your mind looking at that rock with your stomach empty?

Remember if you wanted to you could turn it into bread.
 
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chatter23

Banned
#37
Oct 12, 2013
481
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0
#37
LT said:
no, simply tell me if Satan will be in heaven or hell.
and then tell me if the anti-christ will be in heaven or hell.
will evil men be in heaven?

I just a clear answer to those questions.
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Your question is inane.
Take care of today and tomorrow will take care of itself.
 
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chatter23

Banned
#38
Oct 12, 2013
481
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#38
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
A picture would be nice. I like pictures. Could you include in it all of those who turn their noses up at GOD's forgiveness and want nothing to do with him because they are righteous in their own eyes and love themselves more than him?
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The love of the world is an enmity of God.
Don't you know that people don't love themselves,.. Their love just makes them sick.
 
L

LT

Guest
#39
#39
chatter23 said:
Your question is inane.
Take care of today and tomorrow will take care of itself.
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your inability to answer is inane. My question is answered within Scripture.

Rev 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

There are hundreds of verses in the Bible that speak of hell being a reality, and that punishment comes after death, not during life. I asked the question because if you don't believe in God's justice, then you are not saved.
 
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LT

Guest
#40
#40
chatter23 said:
The love of the world is an enmity of God.
Don't you know that people don't love themselves,.. Their love just makes them sick.
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John 9:3
Jesus makes it clear that sickness is not punishment for our individual sin.
 
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