Justified/Saved by Faith & Faith Alone

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
I respect what it used to stand for I still carry those values with me and I almost got my butt kicked because I was walking past a persons house and they were burning the flag calling it racist. I lost it I went off on that person and had my sister not found me that guy was ready to deal some damage
I am retired military, so you know what the flag means to me..
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,275
436
83
Actually, read all of Romans 6 very carefully. Paul doesn’t come right out and say it, but it really looks like people can die spiritually more than once until their resurrection.

14For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

so we’re under grace. Can grace be lost? Can someone come under the law again?

Next check Galatians 5.

Very eye-opening. I hope someone else sees what I’m talking about.
Parsing Gal 5:4 with prior verse context:
Gal 5:
Vs 1, Faith in Christ's sin atoning death is completely liberating & nothing else is needed/required to free/SAVE you from sins wage/Death. Vs 2-3, (context is key) if you include law keeping/works/good deeds above Faith Alone in Christ' sin atoning payment.

Vs 4 You have been severed from Christ, if you seek to be [a]justified [that is, declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty, and placed in right standing with God] through the Law; you have fallen from grace [for you have lost your grasp on God’s unmerited favor and blessing].

Additional parsing
Jn 12:32 Jesus said, if I be lifted up from the earth, will ""draw all"" men unto me.
(MY NOTE: Jesus was lifted up on a ross & ultimately from the grave. ALL will be drawn/enlightened. Not ALL will choose to except what may come next. Only God knows every heart)

Parable of the Sower and Soils
(MY NOTE: The sower is the Holy Spirit the seed is Gods Word/Christ's Once For All time sin atoning sacrifice & the soil is the human heart).

Mark 4:
3 “Listen! A sower went out to sow seed;

4 and as he was sowing, some seed fell by the road, and the birds came and ate it up.

5 Other seed fell on rocks where there was not much soil; and immediately a plant sprang up [a]because the soil had no depth.

6 And when the sun came up, the plant was scorched; and because it had no root, it dried up and withered away.

7 Other seed fell among thorns, and the thorns came up and choked it, and it yielded no grain. 8 And other seed fell into good soil, and as the plants grew and increased, they yielded a crop and produced thirty, sixty, and a hundred times [as much as had been sown].
( MY NOTE: Only the serious/true believers (many are not! for many cited reasons) that were/are drawn will fall/fail to receive the grace He offers)

Christ knows the true heart & only Christ can baptize/seal the true believer with His eternal life giving Holy Spirit. (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, Eph 4:30)

A few faith alone verses:

Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work [that is, the one who does not try to earn his salvation by doing good], but believes and completely trusts in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited to him as righteousness (right standing with God).

Eph 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast

Rom 5:
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

2 Tim 1:9 Who hath saved us, & called us with an holy calling, """not according to our works""" but """according to his own purpose and grace""", which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Tit 3:
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 5:19 (B) through the obedience of the one Man the many will be made righteous and acceptable to God and brought into right standing with Him.

Rom 10:
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Gal 2:16 man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

1 Pet 3:18 For Christ also """has once suffered for sins""", the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: """for this Jesus did once""", when Jesus offered up himself.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Jn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in Jesus should not perish, but have eternal life.

Jn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
(WE HAVE NOW="""PRESENT TENSE""" FORGIVNESS OF SINS)

Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
(CHRIST HATH="""PAST TENSE""" FORGIVEN ALL BELIEVERS)

Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye
(EVEN AS CHRIST FORGAVE """PAST TENSE""" YOU)

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,399
1,006
113
How?

1. Because you do not believe the death and resurrection is the complete payment for your sin, You believe you in the end have to work, or you will not be saved

2. You believe in the death and resurrection. But you do not believe it was for you. It was for people like Hitler. and all those evil people. I am a good person. and I can say a sinners prayer, and I am saved,, and I can continue to live as I want to, because asgain, I am not a bad person.

3. You believe in the death and resurrection. But your faith is in the church,. and all of their traditions, sacraments, and following them is your way to heaven, Fail to do that you will fall away and salvation will be lost.

The jews paul spoke to believed in the death and resurrection. their faith was in the law though, so in the end, they trusted what their true faith lie in

The people James confronted. were hearers not doers. They acted like the world did. While they believed in the death and resurrection, as demons believe in one God. they only had a claimed faith,. which was no faith at all. they proved this by the fact they had no works but continued to act like the world.

The belief in romans 10: 9 is a belief that has trust,. assurance,. faith. You do not faith something you believe something

There is belief that is faith as in romans 10: 9

there is also a belief that is not faith. as I have showed you many examples

in stead of trying to prove me wrong. why do you not open your mind and see what is in front of you
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God...

You have altered the text above and will read as follows.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith and James (works), and this ultimately comes down to you. It definitely is not a free gift.

You do not understand the good news and that is clear.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God...

You have altered the text above and will read as follows.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith and James (works), and this ultimately comes down to you. It definitely is not a free gift.

You do not understand the good news and that is clear.
my friend. I pray youi ;earn to discern.. You have just falsly accused me because you fail to read what i say. I have been rejecting faith plus works in james for weeks now. And you accuse me of believing it

Get real my friend,, Open up.. You’re hurting yourself.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,399
1,006
113
my friend. I pray youi ;earn to discern.. You have just falsly accused me because you fail to read what i say. I have been rejecting faith plus works in james for weeks now. And you accuse me of believing it

Get real my friend,, Open up.. You’re hurting yourself.
So your now saying that you accept the simple good news, as shown below.

Romans 10:11-13
For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

To be specific, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved".

If you can hold that verse as the primary doctrine without saying, what about this? Or that?

Then indeed you understand the good news, the gift given by grace to us all.

May I ask what you believed a few weeks ago?
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
So your now saying that you accept the simple good news, as shown below.

Romans 10:11-13
For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

To be specific, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved".

If you can hold that verse as the primary doctrine without saying, what about this? Or that?

Then indeed you understand the good news, the gift given by grace to us all.

May I ask what you believed a few weeks ago?
Your funny. I never denied it

My question is can one have belief yet no faith and be saved.

will you please answer the question. Or else I will assume you are licentious also.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,399
1,006
113
Your funny. I never denied it

My question is can one have belief yet no faith and be saved.

will you please answer the question. Or else I will assume you are licentious also.
I am not discussing the Christian life that follows from that gift of salvation.

I concentrate on that reconciliation that Jesus performed.

Romans 5:10
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

You seem to be wrangling about the depth of that trust, the depth of that belief. Will it bear fruit, etc.

This methodology of yours has nothing to do with that gift of salvation.

I am establishing the basis for our salvation, that belongs to Jesus alone.

May I ask how deep must that faith be to be saved?
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
I am not discussing the Christian life that follows from that gift of salvation.

I concentrate on that reconciliation that Jesus performed.

Romans 5:10
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

You seem to be wrangling about the depth of that trust, the depth of that belief. Will it bear fruit, etc.

This methodology of yours has nothing to do with that gift of salvation.

I am establishing the basis for our salvation, that belongs to Jesus alone.

May I ask how deep must that faith be to be saved?
I am not either

I am talking about a persons heart when they claim they believe in Jesus/

You seem to think anyone who believes is saved no matter what. Even if they have zero faith in Jesus.

thats dangerous my friend.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,399
1,006
113
I am not either

I am talking about a persons heart when they claim they believe in Jesus/

You seem to think anyone who believes is saved no matter what. Even if they have zero faith in Jesus.

thats dangerous my friend.
I do not understand your reply?

You keep accusing me. Your issue is with the text. The text says anyone who calls on Jesus is saved.

I am not the person who said that. Your beef is with Paul not me.

Zero faith means unbelief, I do not understand you.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
I do not understand your reply?

You keep accusing me. Your issue is with the text. The text says anyone who calls on Jesus is saved.

I am not the person who said that. Your beef is with Paul not me.

Zero faith means unbelief, I do not understand you.
Dude, are you that hard of hearing?

In the text. The people have FAITH!! They TRUST GOD, they are ASSURED of his gift.

Thats not everyone who believes..

your the one who refuses to answer the question. Like your buddy. I have no recourse that to believe you are afraid to answer. And must assume you believe EVERYONE who believes, whether they trust God or not is saved.

If you do not believe that. Just say it.. Say one can believe and not trust..

or else. I will interpret you as I see
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,399
1,006
113
Dude, are you that hard of hearing?

In the text. The people have FAITH!! They TRUST GOD, they are ASSURED of his gift.

Thats not everyone who believes..

your the one who refuses to answer the question. Like your buddy. I have no recourse that to believe you are afraid to answer. And must assume you believe EVERYONE who believes, whether they trust God or not is saved.

If you do not believe that. Just say it.. Say one can believe and not trust..

or else. I will interpret you as I see
The good news is the good news and remains the good news.

The level of trust. belief, or faith, or any response from you. Does not change what Paul declared.

ANYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF JESUS IS SAVED.

You can add a qualifier to the good news, everyone else has done that.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
6,066
1,948
113
The good news is the good news and remains the good news.

The level of trust. belief, or faith, or any response from you. Does not change what Paul declared.

ANYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF JESUS IS SAVED.

You can add a qualifier to the good news, everyone else has done that.
Well you just proved me right. You think a legalistic grace plus works person or a licentious persons who says a sinners prayer is saved.

Either you’re too afraid to admit you’re wrong. To proud. Or whatever. But you just exposed the truth of your gospel..
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,275
436
83
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God...

You have altered the text above and will read as follows.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith and James (works), and this ultimately comes down to you. It definitely is not a free gift.

You do not understand the good news and that is clear.
Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
(MY NOTE: GRACE = unearned favor - is a FREE GIFT Given by God. A Gift is given, not worked for/earned)

Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
(MY NOTE: The FREE GIFT referenced here is GRACE. Eph 3:7 I was made a minister, according to the """gift of the grace of God""" given unto me by the effectual working of his power.)

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(MY NOTE: By God's GREE [unearned[ GIFT of GRACE. You're Saved [saved from what? sins required wage/payment = DEATH [Rom 6:23]

Here is the Good News"
1 Cor 15:
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
(MY NOTE: I declare unto you the gospel = Good News)

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
(MY NOTE: The gospel/good news - By which also ye are saved)

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
(MY NOTE: The gospel/good news - By which also ye are saved is: Christ died for our sins)
:
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
(MY NOTE: The gospel/good news - By which also ye are saved - Is Christ died for our sins & He rose on the 3rd day according to the scriptures)

Additionally:
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
(MY NOTE: Righteousness is also a FREE GIFT)

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(MY NOTE: Eternal life is also a FREE GIFT)

Although a Gift is given, it must also be accepted. Example someone walks up to you and offers you $100 bill you're free to refuse/not accept it. Peace, JJ
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,399
1,006
113
Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
(MY NOTE: GRACE = unearned favor - is a FREE GIFT Given by God. A Gift is given, not worked for/earned)

Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
(MY NOTE: The FREE GIFT referenced here is GRACE. Eph 3:7 I was made a minister, according to the """gift of the grace of God""" given unto me by the effectual working of his power.)

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(MY NOTE: By God's GREE [unearned[ GIFT of GRACE. You're Saved [saved from what? sins required wage/payment = DEATH [Rom 6:23]

Here is the Good News"
1 Cor 15:
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
(MY NOTE: I declare unto you the gospel = Good News)

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
(MY NOTE: The gospel/good news - By which also ye are saved)

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
(MY NOTE: The gospel/good news - By which also ye are saved is: Christ died for our sins)
:
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
(MY NOTE: The gospel/good news - By which also ye are saved - Is Christ died for our sins & He rose on the 3rd day according to the scriptures)

Additionally:
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
(MY NOTE: Righteousness is also a FREE GIFT)

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(MY NOTE: Eternal life is also a FREE GIFT)

Although a Gift is given, it must also be accepted. Example someone walks up to you and offers you $100 bill you're free to refuse/not accept it. Peace, JJ
Very well written. The truth is crystal clear in the scripture.

John 6:40
For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life.

The good news remains the same.

We all rely on Jesus Christ 100% for our salvation. Regardless of our Christian lifestyle.

Simply because a Christian with works, fruit, holiness, was only ever reconciled through Jesus Christ.

A disobedient Christian, also is 100% reliant on that same reconciliation that Jesus accomplished.

I do not believe anyone would think for one moment, that they somehow contribute to their own salvation.

That would be blasphemy, heresy, in it's purest form.

All the glory belongs to Jesus alone.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,275
436
83
"Faith alone" that saves?

Really? What about the grace of God? What about Jesus? Is not He the one who saves us?
Jesus is the grace/gift from God.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
(MYNOTE: Grace has a name - JESUS!)

Faith begins with & is worthless without, Christ's Faith as the foundation:

Heb 12: Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
(MY NOTE: Christ is the author/beginning & finisher/end of all faith)

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by "faith of Jesus Christ" unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(MY NOTE: The Faith "OF" Christ. Also see Gal 2:16, 20, 3:22, Rom 3:22)

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by "faith of Jesus Christ" unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(MY NOTE: The Faith "OF" Christ)

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from "faith to faith": as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
(MY NOTE: From Faith to Faith. That's our Faith placed in Him & His faithful & obedient sacrificial works)

Rom 5:19 (B) so "by the obedience of one" shall many be made righteous.
(NOTE: It's "By The Obedience of One" = Jesus: Whereby many [those that call on, trust & believe in His sin atoning work] will be made righteous)

Phil 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but "that which is through the "faith of Christ", the righteousness which is of God by faith:
(NOTE: Not by our own righteousness obtained thru any works or law keeping. But, thru the faith "OF" Christ)

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but "the just shall live by his faith".
(MY NOTE: The just live by "HIS" faith!)

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by "faith that is in me".
(NOTE: Jesus say's, we are sanctified by the faith that is: IN > ME/HIM).

Final proof that a person is saved by faith alone:

Acts 10:
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message [confirming God’s acceptance of Gentiles].
(MY NOTE: As Peter spoke, (Faith comes by hearing - Rom 10:17) those hearing believed)

45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles
(MY NOTE: Thru faith alone, regeneration/Christ's salvation sealing/eternal life giving Holy Spirit (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, Eph 4:30) was/is given!)

Eternal Life/salvation is a God given gift received via faith in the merits/work/sin atoning payment of Christ. Also see 1 Jn 2:2 & 1 Jn 4:10

Holy Spirit - A gift given thru faith: Acts 10:44-45, 11:17

Eternal Life - A gift given thru faith: Rom 6:23, Jn 3:36. 5:24, 6:47

Righteousness - A gift given thru faith: Rom 3:24 4:3 & 5, 5:17-18

Grace - A gift given thru faith: Rom 3:24, 5:15, Eph 2:8-9

Justification - A gift given thru faith: Rom 3:28, 4:5, 5:1

All of these gifts are accessed by faith. Rom 5:1-2