KEYS TO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.....KEYS. KEYS!πŸ™πŸ™πŸ™πŸ™

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Besides would you at least answer the point I keep bringing up..."Those who call themselves Apostles and ordain one another as an Apostle or Prophet (NAR/Bethel etc.) are their writings as good as Scripture, just like Paul's, Peter, James etc.?
Still awaiting a response from the NAR / Hyper-Pentecostal crowd that is posting here.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Yes! But we dont want to become like the pharisees and saducces always arguing about this and that!πŸ™
You mean, "Lord, I'm glad you didn't make me like that Pharisee over there. I am very spiritual, so spiritual I just walk and talk with you with little Scripture (lest I be seen as a Pharisee)"
Leastamong, no one said you had to reply to me, but there you go again, getting personal.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I can agree to this. Has God ever given spiritual authority other than to the Apostles? There were instances of those casting out demons in the name of Jesus that were not apostles. Not sure if this was necessarily spiritual authority but perhaps worth noting.
you might look back at the early pages and find ones giving you likes were saying we have Apostolic authority.
 

Leastamongmany

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2019
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Usa
You mean, "Lord, I'm glad you didn't make me like that Pharisee over there. I am very spiritual, so spiritual I just walk and talk with you with little Scripture (lest I be seen as a Pharisee)"
Leastamong, no one said you had to reply to me, but there you go again, getting personal.
Excuse me ,sir! I will bow out of MY own thread!πŸ™
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I wasn't advocating venerating the Apostles or Prophets, I was just respecting the AUTHORITY invested to them by God. You can despise their authority by neglecting their word if you so wish.

ok, you are using the term 'Apostle' as sent one. I agree that is the basic definition, but I was using it in this sense...
Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
(Act 1:21-22 KJV)

Besides would you at least answer the point I keep bringing up..."Those who call themselves Apostles and ordain one another as an Apostle or Prophet (NAR/Bethel etc.) are their writings as good as Scripture, just like Paul's, Peter, James etc.?
Nothing is as good as God . Good is defined by his invisible presence the Holy Place of faith. Even Jesus who says his flesh profits for nothing when called good master gave glory to father not see and said only God is good. Would you elevate the apostles above Jesus?

You are inventing an authority. Same kind used in Catholicism. Venerated ones teaching the pew. the non venerable. ..called Apostolic succession ….men according to the law of their fathers CCC #80 a divine authority like you are offering

(Act 1:21-22 KJV is simply saying they were witnesses as witnesses of men .No adding new meaning to any word ….it can change the intent of the one author of Scripture and the commandments . And no the apostles private interpretation never become the interpretation of God. Peter attempted that in Mathew 16: 22-23 when he forbid the lord for carrying out the gospel

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word (singular) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it (singular) , that ye may keep the commandments( plural) of the Lord your God which I command you.

I would think Abel was the first prophet, apostle and first martyr .
 
Mar 28, 2016
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The bible is of NO PRIVATE INTERPRETATION it states.......but hey....carry on with your PRIVATE interpretation.....
Thanks brother , you can carry on with yours also. Go easy on us older guys you will get to the end soon enough .Every man and woman has a understanding or private commentary of what they think the Holy Spirit is teaching. Its like finger prints .Some line up others cross paths and are horizontally apposed .
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Nothing is as good as God . Good is defined by his invisible presence the Holy Place of faith. Even Jesus who says his flesh profits for nothing when called good master gave glory to father not see and said only God is good. Would you elevate the apostles above Jesus?

You are inventing an authority. Same kind used in Catholicism. Venerated ones teaching the pew. the non venerable. ..called Apostolic succession ….men according to the law of their fathers CCC #80 a divine authority like you are offering

(Act 1:21-22 KJV is simply saying they were witnesses as witnesses of men .No adding new meaning to any word ….it can change the intent of the one author of Scripture and the commandments . And no the apostles private interpretation never become the interpretation of God. Peter attempted that in Mathew 16: 22-23 when he forbid the lord for carrying out the gospel

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word (singular) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it (singular) , that ye may keep the commandments( plural) of the Lord your God which I command you.

I would think Abel was the first prophet, apostle and first martyr .
I am inventing 'authority'when you are the one introducing the word 'venerate' which I never used and now you are accusing me of venerating them???

My thesis is that on earth there is no greater visible authority than God's Word. Does that sound like Rome to you?

So tell me, who else gave us Scripture besides the Jewish Apostles and Jewish Prophets?
Here is a hint...

Romans 3:1-2 (KJV) What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Most of these today, claiming Apostolic Authority are not even Jewish, let alone Apostles or Prophets.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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So tell me, who else gave us Scripture besides the Jewish Apostles and Jewish Prophets?
Paul was both Jew and Roman, and Luke was identified as non-Jewish by Paul in Colossians 4:10-14 :)

Moses was a Hebrew.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Paul was both Jew and Roman, and Luke was identified as non-Jewish by Paul in Colossians 4:10-14 :)

Moses was a Hebrew.
Paul was a Jew...but raised in Tarsus...
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
(Php 3:5 KJV)

Luke wasn't an Apostle but wrote under the authority of the Apostles. There is a debate whether he was Jewish or not. Paul said nothing about Luke's status in Col 4:14.

Re: Moses, I don't make a distinction between Hebrew, Israelite and Jew. If I did I'd be accused of nit picking lol.

Could you then explain what Romans 3 is referring to?

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
(Rom 3:1-2 KJV)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Paul was a Jew...but raised in Tarsus...
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
(Php 3:5 KJV)

Luke wasn't an Apostle but wrote under the authority of the Apostles. There is a debate whether he was Jewish or not. Paul said nothing about Luke's status in Col 4:14.

Re: Moses, I don't make a distinction between Hebrew, Israelite and Jew. If I did I'd be accused of nit picking lol.

Could you then explain what Romans 3 is referring to?

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
(Rom 3:1-2 KJV)
Paul identified the only Jews working with him in Colossians 4 as his fellow prisoner Aristarchus, plus Mark, the cousin of Barnabas, and Jesus, who is called Justus, saying specifically, "These are the only Jews among my co-workers for the kingdom of God." He goes on to identify Epaphras as "one of you," and then mentions "Our dear friend Luke, the doctor, and Demas." Luke was therefore identified as not being a Jew. Nor was Moses a Jew, for he was Hebrew. Jews are not identified as a people until the second book of Kings in the KJV. Many Scriptures had already been written by then such as Samuel, Judges, Joshua, and the Pentateuch, which was written by Moses, a Hebrew :)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Paul identified the only Jews working with him in Colossians 4 as his fellow prisoner Aristarchus, plus Mark, the cousin of Barnabas, and Jesus, who is called Justus, saying specifically, "These are the only Jews among my co-workers for the kingdom of God." He goes on to identify Epaphras as "one of you," and then mentions "Our dear friend Luke, the doctor, and Demas." Luke was therefore identified as not being a Jew. Nor was Moses a Jew, for he was Hebrew. Jews are not identified as a people until the second book of Kings in the KJV. Many Scriptures had already been written by then such as Samuel, Judges, Joshua, and the Pentateuch, which was written by Moses, a Hebrew :)
Moses was of the Tribe of Levi, so how was he not a Jew?

And there went a man of the house of Levi, and took to wife a daughter of Levi. And the woman conceived, and bare a son: and when she saw him that he was a goodly child, she hid him three months. And when she could not longer hide him, she took for him an ark of bulrushes, and daubed it with slime and with pitch, and put the child therein; and she laid it in the flags by the river's brink.
(Exo 2:1-3 KJV) etc.

Paul was of the Tribe of Benjamin, yet called himself a Jew. It's in that sense, I am using the term Jew.

And as I said, even if Luke wasn't Jewish, he wrote under the oversight of Jewish Apostles.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Moses was of the Tribe of Levi, so how was he not a Jew?

And there went a man of the house of Levi, and took to wife a daughter of Levi. And the woman conceived, and bare a son: and when she saw him that he was a goodly child, she hid him three months. And when she could not longer hide him, she took for him an ark of bulrushes, and daubed it with slime and with pitch, and put the child therein; and she laid it in the flags by the river's brink.
(Exo 2:1-3 KJV) etc.

Paul was of the Tribe of Benjamin, yet called himself a Jew. It's in that sense, I am using the term Jew.

And as I said, even if Luke wasn't Jewish, he wrote under the oversight of Jewish Apostles.
I was at a meeting the other day (Saturday) and one of the guys who shared said, "Ever want to make a friend? Tell them you are wrong. You will have an instant friend!" I may be paraphrasing somewhat, but that was the gist of it. People so seldom admit when they are wrong, it is truly a breath of fresh air when someone does. It shows humility, and a teachable spirit.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I was at a meeting the other day (Saturday) and one of the guys who shared said, "Ever want to make a friend? Tell them you are wrong. You will have an instant friend!" I may be paraphrasing somewhat, but that was the gist of it. People so seldom admit when they are wrong, it is truly a breath of fresh air when someone does. It shows humility, and a teachable spirit.
Or we dodge certain questions. Let me try again...

Could you then explain what Romans 3 is referring to?

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
(Rom 3:1-2 KJV)
Are you saying that Rom 3:1-2 is not necessarily true? I was only trying to give explanations of why it is accurate...not trying to say I am right or wrong...only as a Christian, I believe Scripture is without error.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Or we dodge certain questions. Let me try again...

Could you then explain what Romans 3 is referring to?

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
(Rom 3:1-2 KJV)
Are you saying that Rom 3:1-2 is not necessarily true? I was only trying to give explanations of why it is accurate...not trying to say I am right or wrong...only as a Christian, I believe Scripture is without error.
I believe I already answered your question here. Jews are not mentioned as a people until 2nd Kings. So your claim that I was dodging a question? Invalidated. This is not fruitful, either. Good bye.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I believe I already answered your question here. Jews are not mentioned as a people until 2nd Kings. So your claim that I was dodging a question? Invalidated. This is not fruitful, either. Good bye.
And I already made it clear in what sense I used the term "Jew'. Your link was a non answer to Rom 3:1-2.
I showed where Moses was of the tribe of Levi and Paul was of Benjamin etc., but then you want some sort of confession?
As far as the term Jew goes, I am taking it as the natural lineage of Abraham through Isaac through Jacob, that is why Paul calls himself a Jew even though he was of the Tribe of Benjamin.
Anyhow good bye...back to the Keys, Keys, Keys.
 

Mezame83

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2019
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Consider these scriptures...

Matt 19:14
"But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven."
Matt 5:20
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."


Luke 9:25
"But he passing through the midst of them went his way,"
Acts 9:25
"Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket."


Rev 1:12
"And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;"
Mark 1:24
"Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God."

God bless!
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
And I already made it clear in what sense I used the term "Jew'. Your link was a non answer to Rom 3:1-2.
I showed where Moses was of the tribe of Levi and Paul was of Benjamin etc., but then you want some sort of confession?
As far as the term Jew goes, I am taking it as the natural lineage of Abraham through Isaac through Jacob, that is why Paul calls himself a Jew even though he was of the Tribe of Benjamin.
Anyhow good bye...back to the Keys, Keys, Keys.
You are correct.
Moses was both a Jew and a Hebrew.
The term Hebrew almost always occurs in the Hebrew Bible as a name given to the Israelites by other peoples, rather than one used by themselves.
The term Jew didn't exist in his time, but the term Jew refers to the people who belong to the eternal covenant God gave to Moses. Thus, he can correctly be called a Jew.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Moses was of the Tribe of Levi, so how was he not a Jew?
Some might quibble over this and say that Moses was an Israelite, but in the NT Jew and Israel (ite) are interchangeable. The term Jew came into effect after the Babylonian captivity and pertains to those who were from Judah (Yehudi). At that time it was used by those who were not Jews
And as I said, even if Luke wasn't Jewish, he wrote under the oversight of Jewish Apostles.
Luke may have been a Hellenistic Jew.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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The term Jew didn't exist in his time, but the term Jew refers to the people who belong to the eternal covenant God gave to Moses.
I was agreeing up to this sentence. Are you sure you didn't mean ' the eternal covenant God gave to Abraham'? As the one given to Moses was surpassed by a 'better' covenant according to the Book of Hebrews, Jeremiah, 2Cor etc.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Some might quibble over this and say that Moses was an Israelite, but in the NT Jew and Israel (ite) are interchangeable. The term Jew came into effect after the Babylonian captivity and pertains to those who were from Judah (Yehudi). At that time it was used by those who were not Jews
Agreed. I suppose I was using the common non technical term. :)

Luke may have been a Hellenistic Jew.
I've heard that also. There's also the buzz that Luke Skywalker, being a Jedi was a Jew with the Imperial Storm Troopers always on his heels (the Nazi SS) lol