King James Bible vs. Modern Translations (Honoring The Deity of Jesus Christ)

[ChosenbyHim]

I rarely read the kjv and I have a grasp on every essential christian doctrine. I got it from modern versions. Hard to argue against that.

You should read the Holy Bible (KJV) more and more.

And forsake the Vatican versions completely.

The Holy spirit does not lead me to only read the kjv .Hard to argue against that.

Well I can guarantee that the Holy Spirit will lead a child of God to His true word. And His true word is the King James Bible.

 

[Reformedjason]

You should read the Holy Bible (KJV) more and more.

And forsake the Vatican versions completely.





Well I can guarantee that the Holy Spirit will lead a child of God to His true word. And His true word is the King James Bible.

I guess if we are not drawn to the Kjv then we are not his children. Lol your so full of it. I guess we could take offense to that but your so into this Kjv only mess I just feel sorry for you.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

I guess if we are not drawn to the Kjv then we are not his children. Lol your so full of it. I guess we could take offense to that but your so into this Kjv only mess I just feel sorry for you.

Did I say that you were not His child?

No, I did not. All I said was that the Holy Spirit will lead you to His word.

If He is going to bear witness to a Bible, then it will be the very Book which He wrote.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

t t t
For those who read this quote from above, who do not KNOW who and what Will Kinney is {neither did I}; He is a KJV ONLYism guru, and He at the end of his article, proved he is a denominational Bigot who hates Catholics, and uses His KJV Onlyism to promote and vainly attempt to justify his HATRED for our Christian brothers the Catholics.

First of all VCO, true Catholics are not Christians. True Catholics are LOST. Catholicism teaches a false gospel.

By the way, brother Kinney does not hate Catholics.

He apparently saw others who had presented the facts about the KJV 1611 Original Preface, as threat against his using the KJV to Justify his evil Hatred for Catholics. And therefore, he wrote the above article, twisting facts and to using manipulative word games, to attempt to focus the readers attention away from the facts. I was surprised that he showed his true colors of HATE, at end; so I guess the old adage still rings true: GIVE THEM ENOUGH ROPE, AND THEY WILL HANG THEMSELVES. The hypocrisy of it is, after venting his Hatred for Catholics, he signs it "All of grace . . .".

If anyone wants to wade through that difficult to read OLD ENGLISH, in the Original 1611 KJV Preface, as I did; here is a hyperlink to where it is online: King James Version Original Preface

t t t

ChosenbyHim,

LOOK HOW MANY manipulative word game HOOPS, you have to jump through to come to YOUR conclusions, ignoring, disavowing, and planting the seeds of DOUBT, so that you can TURN A BLIND EYE to what the original Translators themselves said about the KING JAMES Bible, which they PARAPHRASED from many other Translations. All that in a vain attempt to hide the facts, that those of your following, have OVER-STATED, EXAGGERATED, OVER INFLATED, and BRAGGED the KJV into being MUCH MORE, than what it is. For a Paraphrased Bible, it is a VERY GOOD ONE; HOWEVER, it is NOT a genuine TRANSLATION from original language manuscripts, and they did not even have all the original Language manuscripts, nor the oldest manuscript, that the Modern Version Translators had available to them. THEREFORE, the KJV at BEST, is a very good Version of the BIBLE, among many VERY GOOD VERSIONS OF THE BIBLE, and nothing more.

The King James Bible is THE Holy Bible. It is God's perfect, pure, inerrant, and infallible word.


The manuscripts which the modern versions are based on are Siniaticus and Vaticanus, which are two of the most corrupt Greek manuscripts out there. Therefore the modern versions such as the NIV (New INternational Vatican), ESV (English Standard vatican), NASV (New American Standard Vatican), CEV (Common English Vatican) etc. are not "good versions" of the Bible. But rather they are Satanic counterfeits.

AND the shocker of all shockers, is Will Kinney who wrote the above article, that you presented PROVED in his article, that HE IS A DENOMINATIONAL BIGOT WHO HATES CATHOLICS, and even used LIES about the NIV, NASB, ESV to vent his HATRED for Catholics.

No VCO, what brother Kinney shared about the corrupt NIV, NASB, ESV was true. All brother Kinney did was share the truth about the modern Vatican bibles such as the ones I just listed.

And VCO, you have not proved or verified your statement about brother Kinney.

Why haven't you VCO? Could it be because you are LYING?

I think so.

Brother Kinney does not hate any Catholic. Brother Kinney just loves the truth. And he is a tremendous defender of God's holy word, the King James Bible.

1 John 2:11 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness, walks in the darkness, and doesn’t know where he’s going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

John 8:44 (HCSB)
[SUP]44 [/SUP] You are of your father the Devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of liars.

VCO, the modern version which you just quoted from is a Vatican bible.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

The person who started the thread is no longer taking part in the discussion. However, there are still several non-Trinitarians in the thread.

It is my hope that all those who reject Jesus Christ's deity will come to believe in Him as God. It is my hope that the Holy Spirit will speak to their hearts and show them His truth. He has shown the truth to Jehovah's Witnesses and other non-Trinitarians before. No one is beyond God's reach. However, as long as people persist in denying Jesus Christ's deity, they will always come up with other explanations. Only God can change their hearts.

Well yes Arwen, God is able to reach them. But God is not going to force anyone to receive the truth, because if He did, that would not be true love. Once a person has been shown the truth by the grace of God, it is up to that person to accept and receive that truth.

I agree. And that is also my point with the other Bible translations. Jesus' deity is still there, loud and clear.

While some of Jesus' deity may be in the modern versions, that still does not change the already proven fact that His deity is diminished in those same modern versions in other places.

I agree that it does teach that. However, people read what they want to into the text. They do this with all Bible translations of many passages. The context teaches that Jesus created all things. However, someone who is biased against Jesus' deity is going to look for ways to explain it away, or perhaps they honestly do not see His deity there.
[/SIZE]

Well of course Arwen, anyone can read something into the text of the Holy Bible that they want to, there are people who take verses of the Holy Bible out of their context and they wrest the Scriptures. Wolves such as Joel Olsteen does that a lot.

Yes. And this is true, regardless of what translation they read.

Well, you have to keep in mind Arwen, the fact that there are Doctrinal changes in the modern versions. For each new version to get a copyright, it has to have enough changes made in its text for it to be considered a new work.

Doctrine has not changed regarding what the Bibles teach.

Yes it has, Doctrine is changed in the modern Vatican versions. If you do not believe that this is the case, then you need to click on the link below and read the article:


NoDoctrineChanged - Another King James Bible Believer

However, humans read the Bible, any version, and can "make" it support whatever doctrine they want. They can do this by reading things into the text (eisogesis) to make it support the beliefs they already hold. If they deny Jesus' deity, they will explain away all references to His deity.

Well sure, a lot of people can do that. And the ones who wrest the Scriptures and twist the Bible to try to make it teach something which it does not teach.

Do you know what those people are??

They are spiritual perverts.

They pervert the words of the living God (Jeremiah 23:36).

The "educated scholars and revisors" behind these modern Vatican versions are guilty also of this. They too have perverted the words of the living God.

If they have a New Age type spirituality, they will read the Bible as supporting their views, reading their own spirituality into the Bible.

This doesn't mean that all views people get while reading the Bible are correct. The doctrine in the Bible is there, and it proclaims the same thing, regardless of translation.

Arwen, Doctrine is changed in the new versions. This truth has already been shown to you.

And no, all the bibles do not proclaim the same thing.

However, the truth revealed in all Bible translations can become corrupt when humans practice eisogesis instead of exegesis. We're probably all guilty of doing this, to some extent. We are imperfect humans.


We can, and should, ask for the Holy Spirit to help us understand the Bible.

Well yes, we do need to ask the Holy Spirit to help us understand the Bible (singular). And that Bible is the word of God, the Authorized King James Bible.

For me, God has revealed the truth of Jesus' deity in Scripture over and over again. I cannot deny it. That doesn't stop others from denying it. This also can be applied to other doctrine. Scripture does have a definite, objective teaching and meaning, but people can put blinders on so that they don't see it.....or perhaps they are blinded to the truth and just cannot see it.

Indeed, the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ's deity is in the Holy Scriptures. And yes the Scripture, the King James Bible does indeed have a clear and definite teaching and pure and sound Doctrine.

 

[Reformedjason]

You are correct about the Catholics. They are not true Christians. You don't have to do much research to find that the RCC is a perversion of Christianity.

 

[dcontroversal]

History teaches us that the King James is a TRANSLATION and is full of words that have been transliterated as opposed to translated. I found one Psalm that had three different Hebrew words translated the same. John was called John the (BAPTIST) because to a 1st century Greek speaking person the word Baptizo meant to dip or immerse. King James translators transliterated the word and gave it English letter equivalency because the Church of England sprinkles. There are many examples of this found throughout the King Jim...that is NOT TO SAY that it is not a good translation or that it cannot be utilized to lead someone to the truth. Study it along side a Hebrew/Greek concordance and you can glean truth after truth from it.

 

[Charismatic-sts1]

It is not fair to say Catholics are not Christians, there are many that are, I knew of a priest who was hispanic who grew up catholic, he had so much Joy for Jesus I was certain Jesus was his Lord. He could not stop praising Jesus it was awesome. There doctrines may be wrong but the message of salvation is still there. I also had a monsenior tell me clearly I knew Jesus Christ after asking him how to share the love and grace of the Lord with others. I love our Catholic church many are amazing spirit filled Christians. I would say they have more reverence for God than most other churches today. I am getting sick of the protestant churches giving superficial sermons with no substance or meaning, at least the Catholics are preaching what they have faith is truth. The only reason why I never became catholic was the sacraments seemed erroneous.

 

[VCO]

First of all VCO, true Catholics are not Christians. True Catholics are LOST. Catholicism teaches a false gospel.

By the way, brother Kinney does not hate Catholics.


The King James Bible is THE Holy Bible. It is God's perfect, pure, inerrant, and infallible word.


The manuscripts which the modern versions are based on are Siniaticus and Vaticanus, which are two of the most corrupt Greek manuscripts out there. Therefore the modern versions such as the NIV (New INternational Vatican), ESV (English Standard vatican), NASV (New American Standard Vatican), CEV (Common English Vatican) etc. are not "good versions" of the Bible. But rather they are Satanic counterfeits.

No VCO, what brother Kinney shared about the corrupt NIV, NASB, ESV was true. All brother Kinney did was share the truth about the modern Vatican bibles such as the ones I just listed.

And VCO, you have not proved or verified your statement about brother Kinney.

Why haven't you VCO? Could it be because you are LYING?

I think so.

Brother Kinney does not hate any Catholic. Brother Kinney just loves the truth. And he is a tremendous defender of God's holy word, the King James Bible.


VCO, the modern version which you just quoted from is a Vatican bible.

I have known SEVERAL born again Catholics, that will put to shame the average Protestant, when it comes to LIVING the Word of GOD, as an example for others, and ACTIVELY leading people to the LORD. I have known three BORN again Priests, in my time, who fervently TEACH the WORD of GOD, expositing it from their pulpits.

REFERRING TO THOSE CHRISTIAN BROTHERS as "Catholics are not Christians" CERTAINLY IS A FORM OF HATE.

It is actions, attitudes, and bigotry like you are displaying that are truly NOT CHRISTIAN.

1 John 2:9-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The one who says he is in the light but hates his brother is in the darkness until now.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] The one who loves his brother remains in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness, walks in the darkness, and doesn’t know where he’s going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

Proverbs 10:12 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Hatred stirs up conflicts, but love covers all offenses.

Proverbs 6:16-19 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The LORD hates six things; in fact, seven are detestable to Him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] arrogant eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] a heart that plots wicked schemes, feet eager to run to evil,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] a lying witness who gives false testimony, and one who stirs up trouble among brothers.

Titus 3:10-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
[SUP]11 [/SUP] knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.

 

[VCO]

It is not fair to say Catholics are not Christians, there are many that are, I knew of a priest who was hispanic who grew up catholic, he had so much Joy for Jesus I was certain Jesus was his Lord. He could not stop praising Jesus it was awesome. There doctrines may be wrong but the message of salvation is still there. I also had a monsenior tell me clearly I knew Jesus Christ after asking him how to share the love and grace of the Lord with others. I love our Catholic church many are amazing spirit filled Christians. I would say they have more reverence for God than most other churches today. I am getting sick of the protestant churches giving superficial sermons with no substance or meaning, at least the Catholics are preaching what they have faith is truth. The only reason why I never became catholic was the sacraments seemed erroneous.

AMEN! Brother in Christ. One of the born Priests that I got to know, was Father Baptista. I used to joke with him that with a name like that, and the spiritual gift to TEACH the Word like he had, he should have been a Baptist Minister, LOL. He knew I was joking, and respected his spiritual Gift to TEACH God's Word. Several times, when He came out to the Prison where I was a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain, I would sit in the back, just to listen to his Sermons, and quietly sneak out two or three AMENS to encourage him.

 

[VCO]

It is not fair to say Catholics are not Christians, there are many that are, I knew of a priest who was hispanic who grew up catholic, he had so much Joy for Jesus I was certain Jesus was his Lord. He could not stop praising Jesus it was awesome. There doctrines may be wrong but the message of salvation is still there. I also had a monsenior tell me clearly I knew Jesus Christ after asking him how to share the love and grace of the Lord with others. I love our Catholic church many are amazing spirit filled Christians. I would say they have more reverence for God than most other churches today. I am getting sick of the protestant churches giving superficial sermons with no substance or meaning, at least the Catholics are preaching what they have faith is truth. The only reason why I never became catholic was the sacraments seemed erroneous.

Oh, I know, some of the Protestant Churches have little meat on the bone, when it comes to Sermons, such as the Lutheran Church that I was raised in. That is why I left, and even though we moved a lot, I was always able to find a GOOD Bible Teaching Church, where the Sermons were always approximately one hour of TEACHING, (not just preaching) verse by verse through the Bible. The Teacher who had the most influence on my spiritual growth, Dr. John MacArthur, almost always teaches nearly an hour, explaining what the verses mean, and how they apply to our lives. He has a radio ministry call "Grace to You", and he is President of the Master's College and Seminary, plus he is Senior Pastor of Grace Community Church, near L.A.; where he has been their Senior Pastor for 40 years, next month.

Here is an example of one of his sermons, with PLENTY OF MEAT ON THE BONE. Why We Believe the Bible is True (Selected Scriptures) John MacArthur - YouTube

 

[Reformedjason]

There are many Protestant churches that are full of non believers. I am sure that some Catholics are Christian , but it did not come from their doctrine. They stay in the RCC out of obligation or for some other reason. The fact is Rome does not promote tye true gospel. Do your research, I have and I can not type it all in this small area. Listen to john macarthur in the sermon series " examining the heresies of the Catholic Church. " for starters. James white has some good stuff as well.

 

[VCO]

There are many Protestant churches that are full of non believers. I am sure that some Catholics are Christian , but it did not come from their doctrine. They stay in the RCC out of obligation or for some other reason. The fact is Rome does not promote tye true gospel. Do your research, I have and I can not type it all in this small area. Listen to john macarthur in the sermon series " examining the heresies of the Catholic Church. " for starters. James white has some good stuff as well.

Still THEY are among the SEVEN types of Churches, that CHRIST recognized in the first three Chapters of REVELATION; who are we to recognize less. THEY TEACH GOD's WORD, and believe it was inspired by GOD HIMSELF; and GOD SAID:

Isaiah 55:11 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

Are you pushing people away or drawing them to the truth? Think about it.

 

[Reformedjason]

They do not believe that the bible is the final authority so I see it differently. They do not teach the gospel.

 

[timberdoodle]

Still THEY are among the SEVEN types of Churches, that CHRIST recognized in the first three Chapters of REVELATION; who are we to recognize less. THEY TEACH GOD's WORD, and believe it was inspired by GOD HIMSELF; and GOD SAID:

Isaiah 55:11 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

Are you pushing people away or drawing them to the truth? Think about it.

i agree

Timber

 

[VCO]

They do not believe that the bible is the final authority so I see it differently. They do not teach the gospel.

QUOTE:

THE CATHOLIC CATECHISM:

. . .
105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."
. . .

107 The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures."

. . .

II. "I Know Whom I Have Believed"[SUP]16[/SUP]

To believe in God alone

150 Faith is first of all a personal adherence of man to God. At the same time, and inseparably, it is a free assent to the whole truth that God has revealed. As personal adherence to God and assent to his truth, Christian faith differs from our faith in any human person. It is right and just to entrust oneself wholly to God and to believe absolutely what he says. It would be futile and false to place such faith in a creature.[SUP]17[/SUP]
To believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God

151 For a Christian, believing in God cannot be separated from believing in the One he sent, his "beloved Son", in whom the Father is "well pleased"; God tells us to listen to him.[SUP]18[/SUP] The Lord himself said to his disciples: "Believe in God, believe also in me."[SUP]19[/SUP] We can believe in Jesus Christ because he is himself God, the Word made flesh: "No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known."[SUP]20[/SUP] Because he "has seen the Father", Jesus Christ is the only one who knows him and can reveal him.[SUP]21[/SUP]
To believe in the Holy Spirit

152 One cannot believe in Jesus Christ without sharing in his Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit who reveals to men who Jesus is. For "no one can say "Jesus is Lord", except by the Holy Spirit",[SUP]22[/SUP] who "searches everything, even the depths of God. . No one comprehends the thoughts of God, except the Spirit of God."[SUP]23[/SUP] Only God knows God completely: we believe in the Holy Spirit because he is God.

The Church never ceases to proclaim her faith in one only God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

16 ⇒ 2 Tim 1:12, 17 Cf. ⇒ Jer 17:5-6; ⇒ Pss 40:5; ⇒ 146:3-4, 18 ⇒ Mk 1:11; cf. ⇒ 9:7,

19 ⇒ Jn 14:1, 20 ⇒ Jn 1:18, 21 ⇒ Jn 6:46; cf. ⇒ Mt 11:27, 22 ⇒ I Cor 12:3,

23 ⇒ I Cor 2:10-11.

. . .

156 What moves us to believe is not the fact that revealed truths appear as true and intelligible in the light of our natural reason: we believe "because of the authority of God himself who reveals them, who can neither deceive nor be deceived". So "that the submission of our faith might nevertheless be in accordance with reason, God willed that external proofs of his Revelation should be joined to the internal helps of the Holy Spirit." Thus the miracles of Christ and the saints, prophecies, the Church's growth and holiness, and her fruitfulness and stability "are the most certain signs of divine Revelation, adapted to the intelligence of all"; they are "motives of credibility" (motiva credibilitatis), which show that the assent of faith is "by no means a blind impulse of the mind".

. . .

162 Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man.
. . .
178 We must believe in no one but God: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
179 Faith is a supernatural gift from God. In order to believe, man needs the interior helps of the Holy Spirit.
. . .

781 Conscience enables one to assume responsibility for the acts performed. If man commits evil, the just judgment of conscience can remain within him as the witness to the universal truth of the good, at the same time as the evil of his particular choice. the verdict of the judgment of conscience remains a pledge of hope and mercy. In attesting to the fault committed, it calls to mind the forgiveness that must be asked, the good that must still be practiced, and the virtue that must be constantly cultivated with the grace of God:. . .

1847 "God created us without us: but he did not will to save us without us." To receive his mercy, we must admit our faults. "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

END QUOTE

Now may I suggest that YOU repent of the false statements and untruths that you have been spreading about our Christian Brothers the Catholics. As far as I know, every Catholic still has to study this Catechism and take a test on it, before he or she can be Confirmed in the Catholic Church. Do I believe they have some false ideas in the Catholic Church? Sure, BUT SO DO THE PROTESTANTS. And if your denominational bigotry was taught to you by your Church, then YOUR CHURCH too, has some serious false teachings. Do I believe there is such a thing as a PERFECT denominational Church that has EVERYTHING RIGHT? NO! I believe fallible human beings, never have been perfect, and will not be Perfect until we get that infallible, glorified body when HE calls us out of this earth.