KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE VS. MODERN ENGLISH BIBLES

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Dec 28, 2016
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20 April, 2014 - 02:24 aprilholloway The Ancient Pagan Origins of Easter

(Read the article on one page)
Easter Sunday is a festival and holiday celebrated by millions of people around the world who honour the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, described in the New Testament as having occurred three days after his crucifixion at Calvary. It is also the day that children excitedly wait for the Easter bunny to arrive and deliver their treats of chocolate eggs. Easter is a ‘movable feast’ which is chosen to correspond with the first Sunday following the full moon after the March equinox, and occurs on different dates around the world since western churches use the Gregorian calendar, while eastern churches use the Julian calendar. So where did this ‘movable feast’ begin, and what are the origins of the traditions and customs celebrated on this important day around the world?



Most historians, including Biblical scholars, agree that Easter was originally a pagan festival. According to the New Unger’s Bible Dictionary says: “The word Easter is of Saxon origin, Eastra, the goddess of spring, in whose honour sacrifices were offered about Passover time each year. By the eighth century Anglo–Saxons had adopted the name to designate the celebration of Christ’s resurrection.” However, even among those who maintain that Easter has pagan roots, there is some disagreement over which pagan tradition the festival emerged from. Here we will explore some of those perspectives.


Resurrection as a symbol of rebirth


One theory that has been put forward is that the Easter story of crucifixion and resurrection is symbolic of rebirth and renewal and retells the cycle of the seasons, the death and return of the sun.


According to some scholars, such as Dr. Tony Nugent, teacher of Theology and Religious Studies at Seattle University, and Presbyterian minister, the Easter story comes from the Sumerian legend of Damuzi (Tammuz) and his wife Inanna (Ishtar), an epic myth called “The Descent of Inanna” found inscribed on cuneiform clay tablets dating back to 2100 BC. When Tammuz dies, Ishtar is grief–stricken and follows him to the underworld. In the underworld, she enters through seven gates, and her worldly attire is removed. "Naked and bowed low" she is judged, killed, and then hung on display. In her absence, the earth loses its fertility, crops cease to grow and animals stop reproducing. Unless something is done, all life on earth will end.
After Inanna has been missing for three days her assistant goes to other gods for help. Finally one of them Enki, creates two creatures who carry the plant of life and water of life down to the Underworld, sprinkling them on Inanna and Damuzi, resurrecting them, and giving them the power to return to the earth as the light of the sun for six months. After the six months are up, Tammuz returns to the underworld of the dead, remaining there for another six months, and Ishtar pursues him, prompting the water god to rescue them both. Thus were the cycles of winter death and spring life.



Dr Nugent is quick to point out that drawing parallels between the story of Jesus and the epic of Inanna “doesn't necessarily mean that there wasn't a real person, Jesus, who was crucified, but rather that, if there was, the story about it is structured and embellished in accordance with a pattern that was very ancient and widespread.”


The Sumerian goddess Inanna is known outside of Mesopotamia by her Babylonian name, "Ishtar". In ancient Canaan Ishtar is known as Astarte, and her counterparts in the Greek and Roman pantheons are known as Aphrodite and Venus. In the 4th Century, when Christians identified the exact site in Jerusalem where the empty tomb of Jesus had been located, they selected the spot where a temple of Aphrodite (Astarte/Ishtar/Inanna) stood. The temple was torn down and the So Church of the Holy Sepulchre was built, the holiest church in the Christian world.


Dr Nugent points out that the story of Inanna and Damuzi is just one of a number of accounts of dying and rising gods that represent the cycle of the seasons and the stars. For example, the resurrection of Egyptian Horus; the story of Mithras, who was worshipped at Springtime; and the tale of Dionysus, resurrected by his grandmother. Among these stories are prevailing themes of fertility, conception, renewal, descent into darkness, and the triumph of light over darkness or good over evil.


Easter is as pagan as they come, and some ppl defend it usage in Acts 12:4. Shame on you guys.

The Ancient Pagan Origins of Easter | Ancient Origins
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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Perhaps she is pointing out that there are some verses found in the King James Bible that aren't found in modern translations which would imply that someone took "away from the words" of the Bible.
Parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot parrot.



Doesn't make it true.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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20 April, 2014 - 02:24 aprilholloway The Ancient Pagan Origins of Easter

(Read the article on one page)
Easter Sunday is a festival and holiday celebrated by millions of people around the world who honour the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, described in the New Testament as having occurred three days after his crucifixion at Calvary. It is also the day that children excitedly wait for the Easter bunny to arrive and deliver their treats of chocolate eggs. Easter is a ‘movable feast’ which is chosen to correspond with the first Sunday following the full moon after the March equinox, and occurs on different dates around the world since western churches use the Gregorian calendar, while eastern churches use the Julian calendar. So where did this ‘movable feast’ begin, and what are the origins of the traditions and customs celebrated on this important day around the world?



Most historians, including Biblical scholars, agree that Easter was originally a pagan festival. According to the New Unger’s Bible Dictionary says: “The word Easter is of Saxon origin, Eastra, the goddess of spring, in whose honour sacrifices were offered about Passover time each year. By the eighth century Anglo–Saxons had adopted the name to designate the celebration of Christ’s resurrection.” However, even among those who maintain that Easter has pagan roots, there is some disagreement over which pagan tradition the festival emerged from. Here we will explore some of those perspectives.


Resurrection as a symbol of rebirth


One theory that has been put forward is that the Easter story of crucifixion and resurrection is symbolic of rebirth and renewal and retells the cycle of the seasons, the death and return of the sun.


According to some scholars, such as Dr. Tony Nugent, teacher of Theology and Religious Studies at Seattle University, and Presbyterian minister, the Easter story comes from the Sumerian legend of Damuzi (Tammuz) and his wife Inanna (Ishtar), an epic myth called “The Descent of Inanna” found inscribed on cuneiform clay tablets dating back to 2100 BC. When Tammuz dies, Ishtar is grief–stricken and follows him to the underworld. In the underworld, she enters through seven gates, and her worldly attire is removed. "Naked and bowed low" she is judged, killed, and then hung on display. In her absence, the earth loses its fertility, crops cease to grow and animals stop reproducing. Unless something is done, all life on earth will end.
After Inanna has been missing for three days her assistant goes to other gods for help. Finally one of them Enki, creates two creatures who carry the plant of life and water of life down to the Underworld, sprinkling them on Inanna and Damuzi, resurrecting them, and giving them the power to return to the earth as the light of the sun for six months. After the six months are up, Tammuz returns to the underworld of the dead, remaining there for another six months, and Ishtar pursues him, prompting the water god to rescue them both. Thus were the cycles of winter death and spring life.



Dr Nugent is quick to point out that drawing parallels between the story of Jesus and the epic of Inanna “doesn't necessarily mean that there wasn't a real person, Jesus, who was crucified, but rather that, if there was, the story about it is structured and embellished in accordance with a pattern that was very ancient and widespread.”


The Sumerian goddess Inanna is known outside of Mesopotamia by her Babylonian name, "Ishtar". In ancient Canaan Ishtar is known as Astarte, and her counterparts in the Greek and Roman pantheons are known as Aphrodite and Venus. In the 4th Century, when Christians identified the exact site in Jerusalem where the empty tomb of Jesus had been located, they selected the spot where a temple of Aphrodite (Astarte/Ishtar/Inanna) stood. The temple was torn down and the So Church of the Holy Sepulchre was built, the holiest church in the Christian world.


Dr Nugent points out that the story of Inanna and Damuzi is just one of a number of accounts of dying and rising gods that represent the cycle of the seasons and the stars. For example, the resurrection of Egyptian Horus; the story of Mithras, who was worshipped at Springtime; and the tale of Dionysus, resurrected by his grandmother. Among these stories are prevailing themes of fertility, conception, renewal, descent into darkness, and the triumph of light over darkness or good over evil.


Easter is as pagan as they come, and some ppl defend it usage in Acts 12:4. Shame on you guys.

The Ancient Pagan Origins of Easter | Ancient Origins
Maybe you didn't realize this but just because words phonetically sound similar doesn't mean that they are etymologically the same. For example Inanna sound similar to my home state of Indiana but Indiana means Indian land and has no ties whatsoever to Inanna.

The same is true with ishatar. Ishatar sounds similar to Easter but in no way shape or form etymologically related to it. I'm a pretty good researcher and I haven't found any etymological ties between the two.... Maybe you can produce some evidence that I'm not aware of.

Also I'm wondering if you think Luther and Tyndale were heretics as both used Easter many times in their writtings. Here they call Christ our Easter Lamb... is this blasphemous?

Luther— . . . Denn wir haben auch ein Osterlamm, das ist Christus, für uns geopfert.
Tyndale— . . . For Christ oure esterlambe is offered up for us.
KJV— . . . For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us.


Luther and Tyndale also referred to the feast of passover as the feast of Easter.

Luther—Und seine Eltern gingen alle Jahre gen Jerusalem auf das Osterfest.
Tyndale—And his father and mother went to Hierusalem every yeare at the feeste of ester.
KJV—Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.
 
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Dec 28, 2016
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No. Not heretics. Just misguided on their thoughts about Easter. Their body of work speaks for itself.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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No. Not heretics. Just misguided on their thoughts about Easter. Their body of work speaks for itself.
Have you ever thought that just maybe you're the one misguided about Easter? I mean do you really think that you know more about the meaning of Easter in the 14th century than Wyciffe and Luther did?
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Have you ever thought that just maybe you're the one misguided about Easter? I mean do you really think that you know more about the meaning of Easter in the 14th century than Wyciffe and Luther did?
None of us, including myself, are right about everything. So yes, I could be. But in this case, hopefully not. I just see Easter, with the usage of a bunny and an egg, as being paganism.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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On here, I have seen one who claims God is not omniscient, not sovereign. God truly didn't know if Ninevah would repent or not, and was sitting on His throne biting His nails wondering what would they do.[John146]
And you claim that God lied when He told Nineveh that in forty days He would overthrow them. My God doesn't lie. My God shows mercy to those who repent and turn to Him.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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None of us, including myself, are right about everything. So yes, I could be. But in this case, hopefully not. I just see Easter, with the usage of a bunny and an egg, as being paganism.
We're talking about 14th century meaning not today's meaning.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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If you think the bible is talking about literal water baptism you have missed the boat.

Does that mean you don't have the Holy Spirit because you have confused baptism in literal water with baptism in living water? No, of course it doesn't.
K....,

What does that mean?
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
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I put it to you that 'Onlyism' is out of character for our God.
1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

God’s people have always been onlyist with respect to God, as priests, as them that believe the word of God.
A peculiar people. Saints...set apart.


1 Corinthians 9:19-23 New International Version (NIV)
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible.
Notice how irrational the niv is?
It has Paul claiming he’s free but a slave to everyone.
Which is a lie. For if Paul was a slave he’d obey everyone but Jesus.
The devil likes to tell Christians they are his slaves.

We who know the truth know we are servants not slaves.

1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
887
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I put it to you that 'Onlyism' is out of character for our God.
1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

God’s people have always been onlyist with respect to God, as priests, as them that believe the word of God.
A peculiar people. Saints...set apart.


1 Corinthians 9:19-23 New International Version (NIV)
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible.
Notice how irrational the niv is?
It has Paul claiming he’s free but a slave to everyone.
Which is a lie. For if Paul was a slave he’d obey everyone but Jesus.
The devil likes to tell Christians they are his slaves.

We who know the truth know we are servants not slaves.

1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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K....,

What does that mean?
Immersion in water is symbolic of immersion in the word of God.

Ephesians 5:26 King James Version (KJV)

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

God’s people have always been onlyist with respect to God, as priests, as them that believe the word of God.
A peculiar people. Saints...set apart.


Notice how irrational the niv is?
It has Paul claiming he’s free but a slave to everyone.
Which is a lie. For if Paul was a slave he’d obey everyone but Jesus.
The devil likes to tell Christians they are his slaves.

We who know the truth know we are servants not slaves.

1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
I don't think the NIV is irrational. I think you are. And slow to understand any kind of English properly. No wonder the KJV confuses you so much.

The Onlyism I am referring to is your cult translation-onlyism. You KNOW that. My statement doesn't relate to the ONLY true God in whom I believe wholeheartedly.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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The Onlyism I am referring to is your cult translation-onlyism. You KNOW that. My statement doesn't relate to the ONLY true God in whom I believe wholeheartedly.
The only true God gave man His word, commanded man to live by His word, man is sanctified by His word, and yet He did not preserve it for us today. Please explain how we are to be sanctified by His word if it doesn't exist for us today? John 17:17. How are we to live by every word if we do not have it today? Matthew 4:4.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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The only true God gave man His word, commanded man to live by His word, man is sanctified by His word, and yet He did not preserve it for us today. Please explain how we are to be sanctified by His word if it doesn't exist for us today? John 17:17. How are we to live by every word if we do not have it today? Matthew 4:4.
But it does exist today. In many languages and translations. Don't you have a library where you live?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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But it does exist today. In many languages and translations. Don't you have a library where you live?
God's word of truth exists today you say? Where? In a library? You do know that God's word does not contain errors? You do know God's word cannot be added to or subtracted from? You do know God's word does not contradict itself?

Where oh where can the word of truth be found?
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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And you are entitled to your opinion. I posted this in a response to KJV1611...





It makes too many references in Isaiah 14 to the king of Babylon, to a 'man', for it to be Satan.

I realize you were responding to KJV1611; but this is an open forum and I thought I might have something of value to add to the discussion. You have liked enough of my posts to make me believe that you might welcome my opinion whether or not you share it.


First, I don't believe that Isaiah understood what God was giving him. I base this on the frequent Juxtaposition of time and place that we find in Isaiah's prophesy.

That lack of understanding does NOT in any way invalidate his prophesy.

I think that when interpreting Scripture, we do well to remember that God is not the author of confusion.

God has indeed inspired the use of a lot of symbolism; but symbols, once used, tend to be used consistently when or if they reappear.

The symbolism of 'Bright and Morning Star' Rev 22:15
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
KJV

might well be understood exclusively as a title of Jesus if Job 38:7 had not established the meaning of the symbol 'morning star' as messenger of light. So we see that the symbol 'morning star' still means messenger of light; but The Bright and Morning Star' with the article and the adjective Bright, is indeed a title of Christ.

Isa 14:12-14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
KJV


How art thou fallen from heaven neither Nebuchadnezzar nor any king of Babylon has ever visited heaven.

O Lucifer, neither Nebuchadnezzar nor any king of Babylon has ever been a source of light or enlightenment

I will exalt my throne above the stars of God neither Nebuchadnezzar nor any king of Babylon gave much thought to God or His angels; they were concerned with earthly power.

Isaiah chapter 14 is indeed about the king of Babylon. verses 1-11 and 16- the end of the chapter are unquestionably about the king of Babylon

verse 15 is a bridge verse referring to both Satan and the King of Babylon.

It may be the intent of verses 11-14 to suggest that the king of Babylon was an instrument or personification of Satan.

However verse 13 is unquestionably using the same symbolism as Job 38:7.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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God's word of truth exists today you say? Where? In a library? You do know that God's word does not contain errors? You do know God's word cannot be added to or subtracted from? You do know God's word does not contradict itself?

Where oh where can the word of truth be found?
I was pointing you to the library because you are asking silly questions as if you don't know The Bible exists. If you don't have a Bible in your possession then go to a library. Yes, Bibles exist in libraries.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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I realize you were responding to KJV1611; but this is an open forum and I thought I might have something of value to add to the discussion. You have liked enough of my posts to make me believe that you might welcome my opinion whether or not you share it.


First, I don't believe that Isaiah understood what God was giving him. I base this on the frequent Juxtaposition of time and place that we find in Isaiah's prophesy.

That lack of understanding does NOT in any way invalidate his prophesy.

I think that when interpreting Scripture, we do well to remember that God is not the author of confusion.

God has indeed inspired the use of a lot of symbolism; but symbols, once used, tend to be used consistently when or if they reappear.

The symbolism of 'Bright and Morning Star' Rev 22:15
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
KJV

might well be understood exclusively as a title of Jesus if Job 38:7 had not established the meaning of the symbol 'morning star' as messenger of light. So we see that the symbol 'morning star' still means messenger of light; but The Bright and Morning Star' with the article and the adjective Bright, is indeed a title of Christ.

Isa 14:12-14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
KJV


How art thou fallen from heaven neither Nebuchadnezzar nor any king of Babylon has ever visited heaven.

O Lucifer, neither Nebuchadnezzar nor any king of Babylon has ever been a source of light or enlightenment

I will exalt my throne above the stars of God neither Nebuchadnezzar nor any king of Babylon gave much thought to God or His angels; they were concerned with earthly power.

Isaiah chapter 14 is indeed about the king of Babylon. verses 1-11 and 16- the end of the chapter are unquestionably about the king of Babylon

verse 15 is a bridge verse referring to both Satan and the King of Babylon.

It may be the intent of verses 11-14 to suggest that the king of Babylon was an instrument or personification of Satan.

However verse 13 is unquestionably using the same symbolism as Job 38:7.
I would like know how you arrived at the conclusion that verses 1-11 are unquestionably about the literal king of Babylon when the context and timing are given as the time of the day of the Lord?