KJV-Onlyism - Have We Been Lied To?

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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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#81
No just weeding.
Kerry actually you are not. Where in the word it talks about when they came to God and said master, someone has sown weeds (tares) amongst the wheat, what shall we do? and the Lord's answer was and is, let them both grow together in regards to not harm the wheat, and at the harvest all will be sorted out.
So no Kerry you are yes weeding, but harming the wheat. So what is your purpose? To harm the wheat as it seems? I pray not, yet God is faithful to show us each the truth in what is happening here, thanks Kerry, Love you deeper than the Mississippi
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,557
497
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#82
now i am a drunk.
Just learning error(s) from truth that God shows his children to be free here and now, today in God' truth not man's. Flesh self is very deceiving into wanting it's own way and sides with others that see it the same way, and is why there are so may different sects of religion out in the world today, when it is really not to be this way, we are to be one in the Spirit of God, and quit this self flesh separating thing going on.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
Not baptized by the Bible or any particular version or any particular religion, praying you let go of self and be set free to love all as God does, shown through Son at the cross
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,557
497
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#83
No, not insinuating anything sinister, but accusations are out there.
I remember reading that Tischendorf only got part of it on his initial visit to the monastery,
and that he came back one or more times attempting to procure the remainder.
Can't give you the source. Read that a long time ago.



Okay, the NASB:
John 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Two manuscripts agree that this is translated correctly.

The KJV:
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Five thousand manuscripts agree that this is translated correctly.

That is a blatant doctrine-of-faith issue.
There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of similar examples.
I'm picky. It matters to me.


It is the most honest, most accurate,
most complete translation we have in English,
and English is the only language I speak, read, and write.
Have you ever seen this truth using John 3:16
[h=3]John 3:16[/h]New International Version (NIV)


[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in (Should read "INTO") him shall not perish but have eternal life.

[h=3]John 3:16[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in (should read "INTO")him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


IF we believe "INTO HIM"
Do you think we will become like him, for is it not Christ that does the work in us that he has already done, just saying a little meat for you to eat since you are picky

[h=3]Philippians 2:12-13[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Tell me are we going to continue to work or give up self work and start belief "INTO" and watch God go to work in us and through once we step out of the way. Take this or leave it, free choice

 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,557
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#84
KJV
Romans 14:4) Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

CJB
Romans 14:4) who are you to pass judgment on someone else's servant? It is before his own master that he will stand or fall; and the fact is that he will stand, because the Lord is able to make him stand.

(goodness, do three different translations find agreement here?)

:)
love it and thanks for the comparisons in truth here, it is all God, me just simply believing God, with the old me out of the way dead at the cross with Christ's death, raised back to life
Colossians 2:12 buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,557
497
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#85
:)

the ONLY "onlyism" I'm interest in is.......LET ME SEE JESUS ONLY!

(uh, does that make me a Jesus onlyiest?)
Yes and me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the common denominator, Christ in us, better yet Crist through us in the power of God the Father via the Holy Spirit. so thanks for that correction I stand corrected, I am in an onlyism, that's Christ:
John 14:6 KJVJesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6 TLB
Jesus told him, “I am the Way—yes, and the Truth and the Life. No one can get to the Father except by means of me.
John 14:6 NLV
Jesus said, “I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one can go to the Father except by Me.

Do I need to go on, Jesus is the way the truth and the new life, he is by Faith in His finished work, we receive new life unto Father
Pretty clear to me in all translations, hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how can there be an onlyism of KJV or any other treanslation when all are saying Christ is the only way?
so there is only one onlyism and that is Christ our doorway to self death of self first, then we might see the resurrected Christ now, yet only through our agreeing to God to be dead to self yes? Paul did say this did he not
[h=3]Philippians 3:10-11[/h]New Life Version (NLV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]I want to know Him. I want to have the same power in my life that raised Jesus from the dead. I want to understand and have a share in His sufferings and be like Christ in His death. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Then I may be raised up from among the dead.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#86
To get to the original topic, I think the words breathed by God into scripture is pure power on earth, and translators do their best to make the original language say the same thing in our language. We do the best we can with that.

I just read something in the blogs that is NOT what God tells us. They said the KJV had a power that no other translation has. They were giving this power to the translation instead of to the words of God. That is not OK. All translations need to be read as a translation that tries to express the original words of God.
 
H

Huckleberry

Guest
#87
Again, I'm not entirely sure why this is an argument against the use of Sinaiticus in and of itself - feel free to enlighten me further.
As we already discussed, the book was found in the garbage.
I don't buy that the monks were too stupid to know what they had.
I suspect they knew what it was and treated it as such.

Let's put the full passage up, so we can better deal with the issue you raise

In the above passage, I have underlined every instance where belief (or the accompanying metaphor, eating of bread) is brought up. It is quite clear in context that belief is in the context of belief in Christ, and it states in multiple other places explicitly aside from v.47 that belief in Jesus singularly is required for eternal life. Putting aside whether the earliest manuscripts are right or the majority text is right for the time being, it is clear that it doesn't change the thrust of the text, and it only matters if you use v47 as a proof text in complete isolation from the rest of John.

In other words, it seems to me that the objection posed by KJV-onlyists at this point only stems from poor exegesis and a proof text based approach to Scripture that is actually only quite recent, and hasn't existed for most of the time of the existence of the Church (or ISrael for that matter). It's worth remembering, of course, that the original texts did not include verse numbers or chapter breaks, and for the most part don't even have punctuation! The text just runs together. So the texts were intended to be read in full, not verse by verse. In short, we rely too much on individual verses to prove things, and don't read the Bible as it was meant to be read, in large chunks.

In any case, I think there's a perfectly logical explanation for the discrepancy between the critical and majority texts. The words "on me", as per the earliest texts that we have (which realistically are the best physical proofs we have as to the original text), were probably inserted at a later date to clarify and harmonise the text. Some scribe who thought he could do a better job with Scripture, perhaps. But the reality is that the words don't really change the doctrine of the passage at all. Take them out or leave them in - John 6 is clear that belief in Jesus is required for eternal life.

The inverse, that the words were taken out, makes much less sense for precisely the same reasons. To take out "on me" at that point, and leave the clear christological nature of belief everywhere else in John 6, would not erode the doctrine. If someone were trying to corrupt the text, you would expect a much larger amount of redaction in chapter 6 then there actually is. Hence why it makes more sense that the added words were added in to clarify, rather than taken out to corrupt. While I'm happy to say that there's no theological problem with the addition of the words, it seems safe to say that they were not a part of what John originally note, which I'm sure we can agree is what's important in the biblical text.
Thanks for that thoughtful and laborious response.
You eviscerated my position pretty well.
Nothing more I can say concerning that.

A few posts after yours, I think HomewardBound clubs me over the head with John 3:16?
I didn't read through it thoroughly yet because he reminded me of another important difference
in the KJV and almost all other versions, and I wanted to address it now while I was thinking of it.

KJV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

NKJV
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

NASB
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

RSV
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son,
that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

NIV
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

You seem partial to the NASV, which lines up with the KJV here,
but do you have a problem with, for instance, the NIV's "one and only son".

Doesn't that create several contradictions in Scripture, e.g. Gen. 6:4,
not to mention seemingly excluding the rest of mankind from being God's children?
Seems like no small issue to me.[/QUOTE]
 

Nick01

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2013
1,272
26
48
#88
As we already discussed, the book was found in the garbage.
I don't buy that the monks were too stupid to know what they had.
I suspect they knew what it was and treated it as such.
Why? How would they necessarily know they had a 4th century manuscript? Even if they did, how would do we know THEY weren't the corrupt ones, and sought to destroy the text because they knew it to be the best witnesses to the early text of the NT? I could argue they were KJV Onlyists themselves and wanted to destroy it for those reasons (I don't think they were, but I can make the assertion with precisely the same amount of evidence that the inverse is argued with). And even if I decided they knew precisely how old the manuscript was, and that they were using it as fuel for fire because they thought it was trash, not because they were jerks themselves, or because they needed to heat the fire, you would STILL need to show that they actually had good reasons for believing the text was suspect. Just because some monks believed it was, doesn't make it true. Otherwise, it just degenerates into he said, she said.

A few posts after yours, I think HomewardBound clubs me over the head with John 3:16?
I didn't read through it thoroughly yet because he reminded me of another important difference
in the KJV and almost all other versions, and I wanted to address it now while I was thinking of it.

KJV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

...

NIV
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.[/quote

You seem partial to the NASB, which lines up with the KJV here,
but do you have a problem with, for instance, the NIV's "one and only son".

Doesn't that create several contradictions in Scripture, e.g. Gen. 6:4,
not to mention seemingly excluding the rest of mankind from being God's children?
Seems like no small issue to me.
Not particularly. I don't think Sons of God in regards to the Nephilim stuff has the same connotation as Son of God in John. The whole point of the word 'monogenes' (NASB + KJV translate as 'begotten') in John 3:16 is on uniqueness, so to say one and only, or only, is to say the same thing as the greek, perhaps a bit less empathically. So the point is not so much that Jesus is God's only child in any kind of sense (because of course we are his children in a sense too), but the sense in which Jesus in God's Son, he uniquely holds that position in a way no one else can. He is God's only Son-of-his-kind. That's entirely orthodox, and is also entirely the force that 'monogenes' carries.

In one sense I prefer 'begotten', because it describes the intent of the extra word monogenes in the Greek, but on the other hand, begotten generally has a different meaning to monogenes in English today anyway, so it's not necessarily a helpful word, whereas one and only kind of gets the main point of mongenes across in a way that isn't potentially confusing. I'd probably prefer the NIV reading over the RSV, though, because it's a little more emphatic. Either way, I'm not sure it makes a lot of difference whether you put the word begotten in, or 'one and only' in.

Also, so we're 100% clear, this particular problem, unlike the John issue, is a translation issue, not a manuscript issue. There is no variant reading (that I know of) in this verse that would effect the use of begotten or one and only - it is purely down to translation philosophy.