law of first mention

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TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#1
https://answersingenesis.org/hermeneutics/law-first-mention-legitimate-interpretive-principle/

Many agree that the word day in Genesis 1 refers to 24 hours, correct.

Does that definition fit this context below?

1Th 5:4-9 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day(24 hours): we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
But let us, who are of the day(24 hours), be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

I did not find this rule in any books on hermetics. When I looked for a definition of this law and how it works online there was no consistent definition, nor a consistent usage.

This law is a word study fallacy.

John 17
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one ; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one , even as we are one :

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one ; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

John 10:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 I and my Father are one .

Regarding his followers, Jesus prayed: “I make request . . . that they may all be one , just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us.”?—John 17:20, 21.

Thus, when Jesus said, “I and the Father are one ,” he was speaking, not of a mysterious Trinity, but of a wonderful unity?—the closest bond possible between two persons.

(The Watchtower September 2009)
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
10,014
3,637
113
#2
I would be wary of anything from the watchtower society.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#4
I would be wary of anything from the watchtower society.
I was using them as an example why the law or rule of first use of a word is a word study fallacy that was committed by the person I replied to.

I agree they are not a reliable source, but they are a good source to demonstrate how not to read the Bible.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,701
9,091
113
#6
https://answersingenesis.org/hermeneutics/law-first-mention-legitimate-interpretive-principle/

Many agree that the word day in Genesis 1 refers to 24 hours, correct.

Does that definition fit this context below?

1Th 5:4-9 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day(24 hours): we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
But let us, who are of the day(24 hours), be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

I did not find this rule in any books on hermetics. When I looked for a definition of this law and how it works online there was no consistent definition, nor a consistent usage.

This law is a word study fallacy.
As Lanolin already implied, The Watchtower Society is not a reliable source of doctrinal information for Christians... at all. I suspect you already know that, and that you know the material below... but for the sake of those who don't:

The fallacy to which you refer above is actually in your preamble. You started with the unsupported idea that the word day refers to 24 hours in Genesis (debatable, but we'll roll with it for now), then you applied that view on passages outside of Genesis. You're discussing one principle of hermeneutics and violating another: CONTEXT.

A saying borrowed from Ken Ham illustrates context beautifully: "In may father's day, it took ten days to drive across Australia during the day." The word 'day' is used three times, with three different meanings, and it's perfectly clear because the context conveys the meaning in each case.

To apply the principle, let's look again at the passage from Thessalonians:

It mentions day and night, so 'day' may mean 'daytime' (sunlit hours) rather than '24 hours'. Does that fit the overall message? Yes... perfectly. So that's the likely meaning.

You didn't provide a definition of the "Law of First Mention" but you implied one: 'the first mention of a word in Scripture establishes its meaning for all subsequent uses'. That's true to a point, but where context demands or strongly implies a different meaning, don't hold so tight to the first meaning that the later passage turns into nonsense. It's a helpful principle only, not a 'law'.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
35,008
12,577
113
#7
The sun was not even there on the first day. It determines the length of our current 24 hour days in conjunction with the rotation of the earth on its axis as we revolve around the sun.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
909
306
63
#8
1st
John 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day?
(NOTE: Jesus answered, Are there not 12 hours in the day)

The Hebrew word "yom" used in Genesis by Moses translate's into english as "day". "Yom" is used in the KJ Bible over 500 time's.

According to the Englishman’s Hebrew Concordance there are over 58 different ways "yom" has been translated in the KJ Bible

"Yom" can refer to a variety of time periods ranging from “forever” (Ps 23:6), “age” (Gen 18:11), “years” (I Kings 1:1), “always” (Deut 5:29), & “season” (Jos 24:7)

From the context of Gen 1 & 2, there are 3 different ways Moses used this word. The word "yom" refers to day as in “daylight” (12 hours) in Gen 1:5, to 24-hour days in Gen 1:14, & to a long period of time (“in the day” referring to all six of the preceding creation days) in Gen 2:4

In Gen 2:4 does the word "day" (yom) refer to a 24 hr period? Clearly no!

In this reply I'm sharing My Opinion Only
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
5,658
877
113
#9
(This is a potion of A.H.book 5,ch.23)

2. Thus, then, in the day that they did eat, in the same did they die, and became death's debtors, since it was one day of the creation. For it is said, "There was made in the evening, and there was made in the morning, one day." Now in this same day that they did eat, in that also did they die. But according to the cycle and progress of the days, after which one is termed first, another second, and another third, if anybody seeks diligently to learn upon what day out of the seven it was that Adam died, he will find it by examining the dispensation of the Lord. For by summing up in Himself the whole human race from the beginning to the end, He has also summed up its death. From this it is clear that the Lord suffered death, in obedience to His Father, upon that day on which Adam died while he disobeyed God. Now he died on the same day in which he did eat. For God said, "In that day on which ye shall eat of it, ye shall die by death." The Lord, therefore, recapitulating in Himself this day, underwent His sufferings upon the day preceding the Sabbath, that is, the sixth day of the creation, on which day man was created; thus granting him a second creation by means of His passion, which is that [creation] out of death. And there are some, again, who relegate the death of Adam to the thousandth year; for since "a day of the Lord is as a thousand years," he did not overstep the thousand years, but died within them, thus bearing out the sentence of his sin. Whether, therefore, with respect to disobedience, which is death; whether [we consider] that, on account of that, they were delivered over to death, and made debtors to it; whether with respect to [the fact that on] one and the same day on which they ate they also died (for it is one day of the creation); whether [we regard this point], that, with respect to this cycle of days, they died on the day in which they did also eat, that is, the day] of the preparation, which is termed "the pure supper," that is, the sixth day of the feast, which the Lord also exhibited when He suffered on that day; or whether [we reflect] that he (Adam) did not overstep the thousand years, but died within their limit,-it follows that, in regard to all these significations, God is indeed true. For they died who tasted of the tree; and the serpent is proved a liar and a murderer, as the Lord said of him: "For he is a murderer from the beginning, and the truth is not in him."

(This is A.H. book 5,ch.28)



  • Chapter XXVIII.-The Distinction to Be Made Between the Righteous and the Wicked. The Future Apostasy in the Time of Anti-Christ, and the End of the World.

1. Inasmuch, then, as in this world (ai0w=ni) some persons betake themselves to the light, and by faith unite themselves with God, but others shun the light, and separate themselves from God, the Word of God comes preparing a fit habitation for both. For those indeed who are in the light, that they may derive enjoyment from it, and from the good things contained in it; but for those in darkness, that they may partake in its calamities. And on this account He says, that those upon the right hand are called into the kingdom of heaven, but that those on the left He will send into eternal fire for they have deprived themselves of all good.

2. And for this reason the apostle says: "Because they received not the love of God, that they might be saved, therefore God shall also send them the operation of error, that they may believe a lie, that they all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but consented to unrighteousness." For when he (Antichrist) is come, and of his own accord concentrates in his own person the apostasy, and accomplishes whatever he shall do according to his own will and choice, sitting also in the temple of God, so that his dupes may adore him as the Christ; wherefore also shall he deservedly "be cast into the lake of fire: " [this will happen according to divine appointment], God by His prescience foreseeing all this, and at the proper time sending such a man, "that they may believe a lie, that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but consented to unrighteousness; "whose coming John has thus described in the Apocalypse: "And the beast which I had seen was like unto a leopard, and his feet as of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion; and the dragon conferred his own power upon him, and his throne, and great might. And one of his heads was as it were slain unto death; and his deadly wound was healed, and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon because he gave power to the beast; and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto this beast, and who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things, and blasphemy and power was given to him during forty and two months. And he opened his mouth for blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. And power was given him over every tribe, and people, and tongue, and nation. And all who dwell upon the earth worshipped him, [every one] whose name was not written in the book of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any one have ears, let him hear. If any one shall lead into captivity, he shall go into captivity. If any shall slay with the sword, he must be slain with the sword. Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints." After this he likewise describes his armour-bearer, whom he also terms a false prophet: "He spake as a dragon, and exercised all the power of the first beast in his sight, and caused the earth, and those that dwell therein, to adore the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he shall perform great wonders, so that he can even cause fire to descend from heaven upon the earth in the sight of men, and he shall lead the inhabitants of the earth astray." Let no one imagine that he performs these wonders by divine power, but by the working of magic. And we must not be surprised if, since the demons and apostate spirits are at his service, he through their means performs wonders, by which he leads the inhabitants of the earth astray. John says further: "And he shall order an image of the beast to be made, and he shall give breath to the image, so that the image shall speak; and he shall cause those to be slain who will not adore it." He says also: "And he will cause a mark [to be put] in the forehead and in the fight hand, that no one may be able to buy or sell, unless he who has the mark of the name of the beast or the number of his name; and the number is six hundred and sixty-six," that is, six times a hundred, six times ten, and six units. [He gives this] as a summing up of the whole of that apostasy which has taken place during six thousand years.

3. For in as many days as this world was made, in so many thousand years shall it be concluded. And for this reason the Scripture says: "Thus the heaven and the earth were finished, and all their adornment. And God brought to a conclusion upon the sixth day the works that He had made; and God rested upon the seventh day from all His works." This is an account of the things formerly created, as also it is a prophecy of what is to come. For the day of the Lord is as a thousand years; and in six days created things were completed: it is evident, therefore, that they will come to an end at the sixth thousand year.

4. And therefore throughout all time, man, having been moulded at the beginning by the hands of God, that is, of the Son and of the Spirit, is made after the image and likeness of God: the chaff, indeed, which is the apostasy, being cast away; but the wheat, that is, those who bring forth fruit to God in faith, being gathered into the barn. And for this cause tribulation is necessary for those who are saved, that having been after a manner broken up, and rendered fine, and sprinkled over by the patience of the Word of God, and set on fire [for purification], they may be fitted for the royal banquet. As a certain man of ours said, when he was condemned to the wild beasts because of his testimony with respect to God: "I am the wheat of Christ, and am ground by the teeth of the wild beasts, that I may be found the pure bread of God."

  • These also are other of those who spoke of this in the early Church but this from Irenaeus sums up how they thought in around the first one hundred and fifty or so years after our Lord and the apostles days.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,671
554
113
#10
https://answersingenesis.org/hermeneutics/law-first-mention-legitimate-interpretive-principle/

Many agree that the word day in Genesis 1 refers to 24 hours, correct.

Does that definition fit this context below?

1Th 5:4-9 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day(24 hours): we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
But let us, who are of the day(24 hours), be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

I did not find this rule in any books on hermetics. When I looked for a definition of this law and how it works online there was no consistent definition, nor a consistent usage.

This law is a word study fallacy.

John 17
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one ; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one , even as we are one :

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one ; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

John 10:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 I and my Father are one .

Regarding his followers, Jesus prayed: “I make request . . . that they may all be one , just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us.”?—John 17:20, 21.

Thus, when Jesus said, “I and the Father are one ,” he was speaking, not of a mysterious Trinity, but of a wonderful unity?—the closest bond possible between two persons.

(The Watchtower September 2009)
1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

This day does not refer to a 24 hour period, or time for that matter, but it refers to light, day, good, saints of God, as opposed to darkness, night, wicked, the world.

Jesus said I and My Father are one, which He was dealing with the Jews as a human among them, so it is referring to God, and the man Christ Jesus as one, which Jesus said out of the mouths of two or three witnesses let everything be established, which the two witnesses are God, and the man Christ Jesus.

The saints become one with God, the same as the man Christ Jesus became one with God.

When Jesus said I and My Father are one, He is not referring to 2 Gods in harmony, for Jesus was in the flesh dealing with the Jews, so He has to be included in that, so it is God, and the man Christ Jesus, as one, and the saints are one with God the same as the man Christ Jesus, for they have a relationship with God, and are in harmony with Him.

But I do not give any heed to the Watchtower, for they deny the deity of Jesus, and say He is a created god.

Which the Bible plainly states that God was manifest in the flesh, and in the Old Testament God said He would come as the Savior of the world, and said there is no Savior beside Him, which some do not understand that, but God is an invisible Spirit so the only way we can see God is if He shows us a physical image of Himself, so we can only see a portion of Him.

So God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus, where saints have partial attributes, and the man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God, which He glorified that body, and His visible relationship to the saints forever.

We can never see God for He is invisible, so the only way we can see God is if He shows us a physical image of Himself, and that is Jesus.

Some say Jesus is a created god, but God said there was no God formed before Him, and there will be no God formed after Him, and there is no God beside Him.

Also there is no such thing as a created god, for God means supreme being, and anything else is created from physical matter which God can assemble, and disassemble, so what kind of god is that.

Also Jesus is the name of the Father, for in Isaiah 56 God said that He would reveal a new name to the Jews, and speak to them, which Jesus said He came in the Father's name, and the Son inherited the name from the Father, for Jesus is God, and human, so it is the name of both the Father, and the man Christ Jesus.

And Jesus said we shall be witnesses unto Him in all nations.

And also Jesus is above the name Jehovah although it includes the name Jehovah, for Jesus is the name that is above all names, not only in this world, but in the world to come.

For God's name reveals His character in relation to people, which Jehovah represents physical deliverance, salvation, and physical blessings, but the name Jesus represents spiritual deliverance, salvation, and spiritual blessing, which is greater for people.

So why do they call themselves Jehovah's witnesses, when they should be calling themselves Jesus' witnesses.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
30,090
9,715
113
#11
https://answersingenesis.org/hermeneutics/law-first-mention-legitimate-interpretive-principle/

Many agree that the word day in Genesis 1 refers to 24 hours, correct.

Does that definition fit this context below?

1Th 5:4-9 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day(24 hours): we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
But let us, who are of the day(24 hours), be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

I did not find this rule in any books on hermetics. When I looked for a definition of this law and how it works online there was no consistent definition, nor a consistent usage.

This law is a word study fallacy.

John 17
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one ; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one , even as we are one :

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one ; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

John 10:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 I and my Father are one .

Regarding his followers, Jesus prayed: “I make request . . . that they may all be one , just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us.”?—John 17:20, 21.

Thus, when Jesus said, “I and the Father are one ,” he was speaking, not of a mysterious Trinity, but of a wonderful unity?—the closest bond possible between two persons.

(The Watchtower September 2009)
the first mention of 'day' is this:
God called the light, Day,
and the darkness He called Night.
(Genesis 1:5)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
30,090
9,715
113
#12
I was using them as an example why the law or rule of first use of a word is a word study fallacy that was committed by the person I replied to.
the first mention of 'one'

God said again,
let the waters under the heaven be gathered into one place,
and let the dry land appear
(Genesis 1:9)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
30,090
9,715
113
#13
Regarding his followers, Jesus prayed: “I make request . . . that they may all be one , just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us.”?—John 17:20, 21.
this is quoting the JW's personally contrived bastardization of the scripture.

see if you can spot the difference is between this and a different, reliable translation ;)

That they all may be one, as thou, O Father, art in Me, and I in Thee ((GNV))
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
30,090
9,715
113
#14
the first mention of 'one'

God said again,
let the waters under the heaven be gathered into one place,
and let the dry land appear
(Genesis 1:9)
& we really ought to look into everywhere the word one is, not just 'one place' :)
for example,


And the Lord shall be King over all the earth:
in that day shall there be one Lord, and His Name shall be One.
(Zechariah 14:9)
as far as i can tell, 1 doesn't mean 'two that are really close together' -- it means 1
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
4,761
3,971
113
#15
I like the law of using context, good sense, and praying for the Spirit's understanding.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,654
1,884
113
#16
The "law of first mention" may be true.


The first time I met my ex, I mentioned to a buddy, "Wow, she's really a snot."

Then time passed, and she was so pretty and everything, that she just grew on me.

But then more time passed, and that "pretty spell" wore off (you know that spell girls do, with all the makeup and the perfume and batting eyelashes).

Anyway, eventually we parted, and she retreated into the dark underworld of "ex-ness"... and I realized my first mention of her was actually true.

She really was a snot.

-