Law: Old Way of Salvation and Faith: New Way to Salvation

[eternally-gratefull]

To be honest, I never thought that, I just think that you do not see that obedience to the Spirit is a must and without such obedience, what are those called who become stubborn to His Voice, His guidance?

But, as I said, I concede.

I think you do not see the difference between obedience to anything and obedience to law. If our salvation is based on what we do or do not do in any way, our salvation is not of grace, but must be earned by whatever it is we have to do, be it obedience to the law of moses or what you call Gods law, it is all the same, it is salvation by works, and not of grace, it is not freely given it is earned.

 

[GreenNnice]

John would beg to differ.

You said the only way we can lose salvation is to deny him, deny who? Christ right??

1 john 2: 22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

so according to john, any one who denies is not of the father or of the son, so far we agree, anyone who Denys Christ will not get to heaven.

now, here is where we disagree. did they LOSE salvation, as you just said, or did they NEVER have it, like I contend.

again what does john say?

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[c] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.


what do we see here?


1. Many people were in the church, and left the church
2. These who left now deny Christ, whether it be he is real, He is correct in his gospel, or whatever it is, they now deny Christ,
3. They are thus correctly termed antichrist (if you are not for me, you are against me) as Christ said.
4. They may have Been in the church, but they were NEVER a part of the church.

5. If they were truly part of the body of Christ, they NEVER WOULD HAVE LEFT.
6. They left to prove THEY WERE NEVER A TRUE PART OF US, or to expose their true belief, that they never trusted in God in a way which would save them why? if they did, again THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE LEFT.


now remember, this is NOT a prodigal son situation here. The prodigal son never denied his father was his father, Never denied he was not his fathers son, And never denied who he was. He just left his fathers provisions and went out on his own. He never stopped being the son. so can not be used to say he lost his salvation.



This is also why I would never judge a persons salvation, even though they may not be in the church, and out in the world. I was there once. I never denied my father, and I never denied Christ, but I did live in sin, not because I thought it was ok to. But because the situation in my life at the time, I was not thinking straigh, it was all about me, a dangerous situation.






see above who an anti christ is.



yes, and as it says, whoever calls on the name of the lord, and becomes his children would NEVER LEAVE, thus they could NEVER deny Christ. but this is not to say they may not chose to walk away for awhile.

A person who was never saved can't walk away from god, they were never of God. a child of God can stray, backslide or try to walk away, But God has promised he will never walk away from us, Just like the father of the son never denied the son was his son, he just allowed the son to use his free will to leave, and suffer the result of his sin. God will never leave us, although he may allow us to use our free will to do it, and he will chasten us. But he will never leave us. or forsake us.

(()))()()(()())))()())

Your understanding of this verse is dangerous, eg, not just fact that IF God had come when you were living apart from Him, with Him but not with Him, you would have been eternally ungrateful with your destination not judging, except righteously and your wavering dangerously in jimdig territory , now THAT'S scary. NO, I'm not kidding, not laughing , I'm dead serious in saying that wihout using the CREATED GOOD WORKS IN YOU by God for His glory used, you will be faithLESS. THE HOLY Spirit leads you, eg, and, it's goingvto be to do good works, and, though unsaid, faith says that your works will be seen. Why whatever for would you you have the Holy Spirit wanted in you IF your not doing what God grated good in you from your being born . Makes zero sense to me, for sure. Being sealed with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of salvation is a grave misinterpretation. We are ONLY sealed with redemption,cans, that again, will come from following Jim, and, you WILL work, eg.


Now on to this verse, as promised :

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

No, eg, ot os gravely wrong to think that the antichrists were once saved. No. They were NEVER saved, NEVER having tasted the heavenly gift, NEVER having been enlightened, ame, NEVER having shared the Holy Spirit goodness inside themself, like Hebrews 6:4-6 speaks of Truth.

So, your points about the antichrists having gone to church but never truly believed is wrong interp. The antichrists were NEVER anyting more than frauds, and, it would be seen VERY early if they would have been at church, for they without question ent God and Jesus and there is nowhere in Scripture that says they deceive with their true beliefs. They simply NEVER believed in the first place .

Big difference between an antichrist and a apostate believer who tastes the Spirit then leaves Him, for good.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

(()))()()(()())))()())

Your understanding of this verse is dangerous, eg, not just fact that IF God had come when you were living apart from Him, with Him but not with Him, you would have been eternally ungrateful

how is it dangerous? It says plain and clear they were never of us, how can we then twist it to say they were of us and left us and now are no longer with us? Why do people want to twist scripture? And as far as me hiding from God? How can I do that? Is not God omniscent, does he not know every move I make and every place i go? I can;t hide from God any more than adam and eve did, The only difference I am not naked, Like he did for them, he clothed me with his son, so I am not naked and alone, He promised he would never leave nor forsake me,

with your destination not judging, except righteously and your wavering dangerously in jimdig territory , now THAT'S scary. NO, I'm not kidding, not laughing , I'm dead serious in saying that wihout using the CREATED GOOD WORKS IN YOU by God for His glory used, you will be faithLESS.

Can you tell me how I am wavering? am I in some sin now that I am wavering from God. how do you get this? and what about the passage that says even when we are faithless, he is faithfull, he can not deny himself. My salvation is not on me, I can never earn it, it is on him, his promise, his work, if he denies it because I am faithless, he would have to deny his own promise. Does God do this?

THE HOLY Spirit leads you, eg, and, it's goingvto be to do good works, and, though unsaid, faith says that your works will be seen. Why whatever for would you you have the Holy Spirit wanted in you IF your not doing what God grated good in you from your being born . Makes zero sense to me, for sure. Being sealed with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of salvation is a grave misinterpretation. We are ONLY sealed with redemption,cans, that again, will come from following Jim, and, you WILL work, eg.

where are we going here? I never said a person will not work, why is it people always want to twist what I say?? A person saved will work, but it does not mean they may one day fall back, or do something foolish like walk away and be a prodigal son, there is a huge difference. It is the one who never changed, or who now denys Christ that you have to worry, for they were NEVER SAVED, as John clearly said!

Now on to this verse, as promised :

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

No, eg, ot os gravely wrong to think that the antichrists were once saved. No. They were NEVER saved, NEVER having tasted the heavenly gift, NEVER having been enlightened, ame, NEVER having shared the Holy Spirit goodness inside themself, like Hebrews 6:4-6 speaks of Truth.

Heb 6 is speaking of those going back to law, it says they tasted the gift, but never had it, And IF THEY COULD FALL AWAY, they could never be renewed to repentance. Which destroys all arguments that people could lose salvation then get it back. Heb 6 is clear, if you could lose (if they fall away) you can never get saved again, why, you put Christ to open shame, you say his death was not enough, which is what returning to law says, Christ is not the sacrifice, our work is payment for our sin.

So, your points about the antichrists having gone to church but never truly believed is wrong interp. The antichrists were NEVER anyting more than frauds, and, it would be seen VERY early if they would have been at church, for they without question ent God and Jesus and there is nowhere in Scripture that says they deceive with their true beliefs. They simply NEVER believed in the first place .

Big difference between an antichrist and a apostate believer who tastes the Spirit then leaves Him, for good.

oh and this is so? Frauds can hide in places for years and not be known. There are enough fakes out there that we can be fooled many times, I have sen it myself. John said they were NEVER OF US, so if you do not agree with John, tell us. But I will trust john, Which means someone could be hiding in your midst for years, and then show his true self by leaving and denying Christ. John said it, if you do not want to believe me, thats fine, but believe John!

 

[stino]

It's hard to follow the Mosaic law, but it's as simple as that to follow at the same time, only by the grace of God. Jesus Christ has explained all that simplicity in following the law which He has fulfilled and blotted it away on the cross where He said, It is finished. So, as Paul said, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me, we ought to live by His grace alone. He is able to do that which is good and acceptable in His sight. All we need to do is, trust and obey, for there's no other way to be happy in Jesus.

 

[GreenNnice]

Judas apostated, he fell for the Devil's enticing him with money (silver shriek) for to betray Jesus.

Eg, what does the word 'betray' mean?

Does 'betray' mean 'they went out with us but they were never of us in the first place?'

No.

To betray means to have fallen one way in your belief, backstabbing one who TRUSTED you, took you under their wing, and, in this case, Judas became one of Jesus' Twelve. But then Judas apostated from his true tasting of enlightenment that Jesus shared with him, we can only rightfully assume, right?

Judas was saved by Christ, but then fell to the demon that worked up temptation, which led to sin , which became DEATH.

NOW, Judas sinned against Jesus, what a choice, sinning against the One conceived of Holy Spirit sent to earth by God ! But, lo, indeed, Judas committed this sin, and, in this case, God's mercy was shewed not one bit, letting this wicked, possessed man, bent on bringing down The Messiah, die a most gruesome, lesson of DEATH.

NOW, eg, how can one who is enlightened (regenerated, reborn) who then tastes the heavenly gift (Holy Spirit) and shares (Judas body became a shared temple with the Holy Spirit) Him leave Him then?

I don't know! But Hebrews, too, makes it clear that 'Jesus tasted death,' and, Jesus, indeed, exponentially and experiencedly to the Nth degree of PAIN experienced what is was like to go completely THROUGH the process of DEATH.

Eg, the gospel you preach is not the gospel in Scripture, for if it was the book of Hebrews woyldvhave been not in amongst the 66 books. But, it is, and, again, referring back to 1 John 2:19, these ANTICHRISTS were frauds and it wasn't like they were members of the church, 'they went out with us but they were not of us.' John KNEW they were frauds, they did NOT hide for years in the church. No. They were openly ANTICHRIST in behavior, they NEVER did foolery of saying, 'YES, I believe Jesus is the Son of God and died for my sins.' No, they, indeed, TRIED to be like John and other believers but MOMENT they got their chance to DENOUNCE CHRIST THEY DID !

I pray God reaches you, eg, for your heresy gospel, much like jimdig's 'Lordship Salvation' gospel is false teaching, that is, telling people they're saved no matter what they do , sin or not , for God cannot be unfaithful . And, trust this: IF you become unfaithful you will leave God. It has NOTHING to do with Him, you, like Judas, denied He who is in you. Or, jimdig's gospel of teaching others that you get ONE CHANCE TO BE SAVED and that's it. False. Being saved is a process of acceptance of Christ, FIRST, and, then you we to follow Christ. Some will be immediately ready to receive the Holy Spirit but some, yes, some, as Acts states, 'the Holy Spirit had not yet fell.upon them.' Salvation , lifelong process of fear and trembling, which simply means to let the Lord lead you through its entirety, as He will ,as you pray and follow Him. The Lord leads.

Embrace His Word, His still small voice speaking to you as you go and do more and more spiritual things and NEVER become guilted of your past sins, they were eliminated and , more importantly, disremembered by God the moment you confessed, thrown into the 'sea of forgetfulness. Present and future sins thrown there too, but God's grace, Christ peeps, NEVER use 'it' as a license to sin. Paul says, 'God forbid.' Live for Him, His mercies are new every morning , great mercy, as you seek Him at His throne, praying ceaselessly, listening, and, heaRing Him, His throne of grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Judas apostated, he fell for the Devil's enticing him with money (silver shriek) for to betray Jesus.

Judas never was saved, he was an imposter, jesus even told them there was one among them who was a devil and did not believe.

Eg, what does the word 'betray' mean?

you ever betray your father or mother. did they kick you out of their family because you betrayed them? why would you think god would do this, do you not know every time you sin you betray God, because you have chosen self over God. think about what your saying.

Does 'betray' mean 'they went out with us but they were never of us in the first place?'

No.

why would it matter, an antichrist is one who denys christ, thus we do not need to go any further, one who denys christ has never been a true part of us, no matter how long they were with us, end of story.

To betray means to have fallen one way in your belief, backstabbing one who TRUSTED you, took you under their wing, and, in this case, Judas became one of Jesus' Twelve. But then Judas apostated from his true tasting of enlightenment that Jesus shared with him, we can only rightfully assume, right?

1. Judas never believed, he was always steeling from them, he was in it for the money, and his true self showed when he traded Christ in for money,
2. Any time you sin, you betray God, are we now saying any time we sin we lose salvation?

Judas was saved by Christ, but then fell to the demon that worked up temptation, which led to sin , which became DEATH.

Thats a high assumption you make there, that judas was saved, how can a thief who always stole from them have ever been saved? seemed like he was a thief when he started, and a thief when he was with them, no changed life, only pretended.

NOW, Judas sinned against Jesus, what a choice, sinning against the One conceived of Holy Spirit sent to earth by God ! But, lo, indeed, Judas committed this sin, and, in this case, God's mercy was shewed not one bit, letting this wicked, possessed man, bent on bringing down The Messiah, die a most gruesome, lesson of DEATH.

Peter denied Christ three times, yet did you hear Jesus confront him and ask him to repent? No, why not? again think about what your saying.

NOW, eg, how can one who is enlightened (regenerated, reborn) who then tastes the heavenly gift (Holy Spirit) and shares (Judas body became a shared temple with the Holy Spirit) Him leave Him then?

I don't know! But Hebrews, too, makes it clear that 'Jesus tasted death,' and, Jesus, indeed, exponentially and experiencedly to the Nth degree of PAIN experienced what is was like to go completely THROUGH the process of DEATH.

do me a favor, lets look at hebrews in context. Tell me what these verses mean.

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.


Pay close attention to the word NEAR, for it is th emost important word in the whole passage your speaking of. Also look at 1 cor and how one is rewarded with gold silver precious stone, wood hey and straw. What happens to the one who has everything he earned burnt? is he also cast out and lost forever, or was he "near to being cursed"

Eg, the gospel you preach is not the gospel in Scripture, for if it was the book of Hebrews woyldvhave been not in amongst the 66 books. But, it is, and, again, referring back to 1 John 2:19, these ANTICHRISTS were frauds and it wasn't like they were members of the church, 'they went out with us but they were not of us.' John KNEW they were frauds, they did NOT hide for years in the church. No. They were openly ANTICHRIST in behavior, they NEVER did foolery of saying, 'YES, I believe Jesus is the Son of God and died for my sins.' No, they, indeed, TRIED to be like John and other believers but MOMENT they got their chance to DENOUNCE CHRIST THEY DID !

You misinterpreting hebrews does not make me wrong. I love hebrews, it speaks of people trying to return to law. the law states you can lose salvation unless you continue to repent of your sin, and do a religious ceremony to have that sin removed. It should speak to you, as well as james, and even John, for they all three agree,

I pray God reaches you, eg, for your heresy gospel, much like jimdig's 'Lordship Salvation' gospel is false teaching, that is, telling people they're saved no matter what they do , sin or not , for God cannot be unfaithful . And, trust this: IF you become unfaithful you will leave God. It has NOTHING to do with Him, you, like Judas, denied He who is in you. Or, jimdig's gospel of teaching others that you get ONE CHANCE TO BE SAVED and that's it. False. Being saved is a process of acceptance of Christ, FIRST, and, then you we to follow Christ. Some will be immediately ready to receive the Holy Spirit but some, yes, some, as Acts states, 'the Holy Spirit had not yet fell.upon them.' Salvation , lifelong process of fear and trembling, which simply means to let the Lord lead you through its entirety, as He will ,as you pray and follow Him. The Lord leads.

Embrace His Word, His still small voice speaking to you as you go and do more and more spiritual things and NEVER become guilted of your past sins, they were eliminated and , more importantly, disremembered by God the moment you confessed, thrown into the 'sea of forgetfulness. Present and future sins thrown there too, but God's grace, Christ peeps, NEVER use 'it' as a license to sin. Paul says, 'God forbid.' Live for Him, His mercies are new every morning , great mercy, as you seek Him at His throne, praying ceaselessly, listening, and, heaRing Him, His throne of grace.

i oray God reaches out to you, and you see God in his true light, God is omniscient, He is not going to make a fool of himself by saving someone he KNEW would one day reject him, Scripture says God saved us before time began, which means he knew before the foundation of the earth was even formed you and I in an inimate knowledge, he knew where we were, what we were, every wrong or right we would ever do from birth till death before the foundation fo the world was layed. Now you want me to believe God knowing all these things is going to save a person, Give them the HS, Give them all his promises and blessings, KNOWING they will one day apostate (as you like to call it)

What does that say about God an his omniscient knowledge? He was wrong, and gave someone something who did not deserve it.

 

[GreenNnice]

God gives us grace.
God gives us faith.

Jesus died on the cross to show us the way Home.

What we choose to do with God's grace and God's faith given is up to us, eg, it is not as you say though, the gospel of Christ is about fully appreciating all aspects of Jesus life and God's leading, given us as we worship in Spirit and Truth, and, from that prayerful knowledge used, then is understanding that things like Judas became deceived then did an act far more heinous in nature than your thinking it same as a child betraying mom, dad. No, betrayal , eg, is of far greater consequence . Judas was not the Devil, who told you that, not Scripture. Judss partook of the Devil's temptation, that is all of Judas, he most certainly, for 3 years, was following Jesus. He could have came back to Christ but Judas' heart was hardened and God brought about a wicked ending to that wicked one.

Eg, Christ died so that we MIGHT have life and have it abundantly, might . It is work, not just accepting Christ and realizing your wretched and wicked and can be eternally grateful and then keep going on sinning because you know carnal man is ALL evil, every one, no, not one can be good ! True, eg. Not one. But....


...it is not one who is of themself , he, the one, who becomes REMADE of Him, God living and abiding in Him, through following His salvation plan for their life, including the receiving of baptism and also the Holy Spirit, as He leads, is what SEPERATES carnal man from the man born of God (1 John 3:6-9), who is CRUCIFIED when we accept Christ. And, indeed, after God is in you, you will LIVE differently, you will ACT differently, you, eg, will BE different, for your old man will have gone away and you will be NEW

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God gives us grace.
God gives us faith.

Jesus died on the cross to show us the way Home.

What we choose to do with God's grace and God's faith given is up to us, eg, it is not as you say though, the gospel of Christ is about fully appreciating all aspects of Jesus life and God's leading, given us as we worship in Spirit and Truth, and, from that prayerful knowledge used, then is understanding that things like Judas became deceived then did an act far more heinous in nature than your thinking it same as a child betraying mom, dad. No, betrayal , eg, is of far greater consequence . Judas was not the Devil, who told you that, not Scripture. Judss partook of the Devil's temptation, that is all of Judas, he most certainly, for 3 years, was following Jesus. He could have came back to Christ but Judas' heart was hardened and God brought about a wicked ending to that wicked one.

John 6
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him

John 6:70
Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

maybe if you tried to study the word, you would see what God said about Judas. Jesus knew from the beginning that judas did not believe.

not to mention. Satan can not ENTER a person who belongs to God, do you think God is going to allow that. Satan did not just tempt judas, he entered him, he took control of him, that is why he is called the son of perdition. Just like the man of sin in the end times will be CONTROLED by satan himself.

Luke 22:3
Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve.

Eg, Christ died so that we MIGHT have life and have it abundantly, might . It is work, not just accepting Christ and realizing your wretched and wicked and can be eternally grateful and then keep going on sinning because you know carnal man is ALL evil, every one, no, not one can be good ! True, eg. Not one. But....


...it is not one who is of themself , he, the one, who becomes REMADE of Him, God living and abiding in Him, through following His salvation plan for their life, including the receiving of baptism and also the Holy Spirit, as He leads, is what SEPERATES carnal man from the man born of God (1 John 3:6-9), who is CRUCIFIED when we accept Christ. And, indeed, after God is in you, you will LIVE differently, you will ACT differently, you, eg, will BE different, for your old man will have gone away and you will be NEW

lol. I will not be sinless. And if I ever say I will be, call me a fool.

I wonder why it is you did not respond to my heb 6 question? is there a reason?

 

[GreenNnice]

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned

Cursed is the man who bears herbs but not quite as cursed as the man who hung from a tree(Jesus on the cross)?
((((((()))))))
Cursed is the man who becomes a devil, decides to follow Satan DURING his natural born life after having been one of the CHOSEN 12 to apostle. Judas, in others words, eg, if you know what the word 'apostle means, did what? Apos-tated. Apostatized ! Yes, you say what I call it, no, not what I call it, eg, what it is. Leaving Christ after having CHOSEN Him your Lord and Saviour. What would you call 'apostate?'
Did Jesus really choose a person, sent of God, with the devil in him to begin with Jesus for His ministry?
No. Judas betrayed Jesus. He KNEW Jesus well, He was on the boat fishing, witnessing miracles.
He was not 'multitude,' he was not 'disciple,' Judas was 'apostle.'

Hid who he was for 3 years, watched Jesus perform miracles for three years, and, never was to begin with REALLY one of the Twelve, eg?

 

[GreenNnice]

Edit: Cursed is the man who bears herbs but doesn't go out into the world with this grace God-given, to do good things with the 'fruit,' but not quite as cursed as the man who hung from a tree(Jesus on the cross)?

Kind of like John 15, too, 'I am the vine, you are the branches...'

 

[eternally-gratefull]

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned

Cursed is the man who bears herbs but not quite as cursed as the man who hung from a tree(Jesus on the cross)?
((((((()))))))
Cursed is the man who becomes a devil, decides to follow Satan DURING his natural born life after having been one of the CHOSEN 12 to apostle. Judas, in others words, eg, if you know what the word 'apostle means, did what? Apos-tated. Apostatized ! Yes, you say what I call it, no, not what I call it, eg, what it is. Leaving Christ after having CHOSEN Him your Lord and Saviour. What would you call 'apostate?'
Did Jesus really choose a person, sent of God, with the devil in him to begin with Jesus for His ministry?
No. Judas betrayed Jesus. He KNEW Jesus well, He was on the boat fishing, witnessing miracles.
He was not 'multitude,' he was not 'disciple,' Judas was 'apostle.'

Hid who he was for 3 years, watched Jesus perform miracles for three years, and, never was to begin with REALLY one of the Twelve, eg?

lol. wow, ok this is different than any response I ever had.

Near to being cursed. It means he is not cursed, but he was prety close to being cursed, it means he made it by the skin of his pants. Just like in corinthians. paul said one can be at judgment day, have every reward he ever recieved for work done burnt in the fire, But he himself will STILL BE SAVED, even though as through fire.

Imagine the word picture here, A man in his house, his house is burning, all his possessions will be destroyed, and he himself will die, But at the last minute he runs through the fire, and makes it to the other side, He has lost every possession he ever had recieved, all he worked for, But he still had his life.

this is important, because this means there will be people in heaven for eternity who earned nothing while on this earth, and thus all the things he earned amounted to nothing, they could not sustain the test of fire, and thus were burned. But he himself was NEAR TO BEING CURSED. in other words, he will suffer great loss, but he himself will STILL BE SAVED, even as though through fire.

the passage in hebrews parallells this great passage of paul quite well. It shows many who are saved, who god tried to rain down on, and increase his reward, will suffer great loss, because they did not grow in Christ, and learn to do the things which would earn reward.

as for judas, He was not an apostle. the office of apostle did not come til after Christ left.

we were told by jesus he was a devil, and jesus knew form the beginning he did not believe.

Thanks But I will chose to listen to Jesus himself. If Jesus knew he did not believe, why would I change my thinking and think one day he did believe. many people follow a church, or religion, it in no way means they ever actually had faith in what was being said, you ever been around a group of believers who are on fire for God, and who are mature in Christ? They are the best people to be around, the love and forgiveness they show is like no other, that is why God calls them a light, which draws people to God. Many hang around just for the fellowshi, because you will not get that in the world. But have never trusted Christ.

 

[GreenNnice]

Again, you misinterpret more, scripture, eg, sigh, I have no time today to deal with this, but I will, OH, YES!, I will. The Lord leads

All for now to say, He is the vine, we are the branches, and, I don't now how you gonna get through that fire, if you been CUT OFF !

 

[GreenNnice]

Again, you misinterpret more, scripture, eg, sigh, I have no time today to deal with this, but I will, OH, YES!, I will. The Lord leads

All for now to say, He is the vine, we are the branches, and, I don't now how you gonna get through that fire, if you been CUT OFF !

eg, what does it mean for one to be' cut off,' in a 'fruit' sense ? (Read John 15)

And, what does Jesus say happens to one who does not bear 'good fruit' for their life ?

Does it require faith to bear fruit or is it just something that happens in our life, as God ordains ?

 

[Historicist]

the saints in the OT were saved by the Law of the Spirit through faith just as the ones in the NT. they had faith that God would send Jesus as a Messiah. He is he Promised Seed of Abraham who was justified by Faith and not by circumcision or any acts he preformed.

they were held blameless if they followed the letter of the law but they did not have eternal life unless they had the Spirit of God within them. All of the saints in the OT and NT have God's Holy Spirit guiding them. that does not change.

Ariel82, why are you quoting/giving respect to the Marxist-Communist-Atheist Nelson Mandela? This man was a leader of the ANC terrorist group. The ANC was noted for "necklacing," for punishing nonconforming blacks by burning them alive with a gasoline filled tire around the neck. How can you be so naive?