Law was to lead us to Christ.

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MarcR

MarcR

Senior Member
#21
Feb 12, 2015
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#21
gotime said:
I am curious then why God said they could keep it. and is God playing games with them telling them to keep it and actually punishing them for not doing so?

Now you are right that God knew they often would not but I can no ascribe to the notion that they could not being that God said they could and expected them to do so. But it was by faith.
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Rom 8:3-9
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
KJV


Any who were under the law and who pleased God; pleased God by faith not by works; hence
Ro 3:25.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#22
Mar 3, 2011
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#22
Deu 30:10 "However, all this will happen only if you pay attention to what ADONAI your God says, so that you obey his mitzvot and regulations which are written in this book of the Torah, if you turn to ADONAI your God with all your heart and all your being.
Deu 30:11 For this mitzvah which I am giving you today is not too hard for you, it is not beyond your reach.
Deu 30:12 It isn't in the sky, so that you need to ask, 'Who will go up into the sky for us, bring it to us and make us hear it, so that we can obey it?'
Deu 30:13 Likewise, it isn't beyond the sea, so that you need to ask, 'Who will cross the sea for us, bring it to us and make us hear it, so that we can obey it?'
Deu 30:14 On the contrary, the word is very close to you - in your mouth, even in your heart; therefore, you can do it!
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#23
Mar 3, 2011
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MarcR said:
Rom 8:3-9
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
KJV


Any who were under the law and who pleased God; pleased God by faith not by works; hence
Ro 3:25.
Click to expand...
Ok I think I see where you are coming from now. I do not agree however as God said they could keep it and God does not lie. This means they must have been able to keep it.

So do you think that the spirit was not available n the Old testament. I ask because I think it was, though we know more about Him now. But I think the problem was not that they could not keep it but rather they did not do so by faith and rather tried by works.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#24
Mar 3, 2011
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#24
It seems to me and correct me if I am wrong but it seems you are using the new as the basis of understanding of the old. when in fact Jesus and the Disciples used the old as the basis of the new. When we switch that around we come to all sorts of errors.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#25
Mar 3, 2011
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#25
by the way I am not suggesting the new is wrong. But rather the new is founded on the old and if we come from the wrong direction we sill inevitably place bricks in the wrong place.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#26
Mar 3, 2011
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#26
but here is my main point:

Deu 30:10 "However, all this will happen only if you pay attention to what ADONAI your God says, so that you obey his mitzvot and regulations which are written in this book of the Torah, if you turn to ADONAI your God with all your heart and all your being.
Deu 30:11 For this mitzvah which I am giving you today is not too hard for you, it is not beyond your reach.
Deu 30:12 It isn't in the sky, so that you need to ask, 'Who will go up into the sky for us, bring it to us and make us hear it, so that we can obey it?'
Deu 30:13 Likewise, it isn't beyond the sea, so that you need to ask, 'Who will cross the sea for us, bring it to us and make us hear it, so that we can obey it?'
Deu 30:14 On the contrary, the word is very close to you - in your mouth, even in your heart; therefore, you can do it!

Either God lied here or he did not. Either they could keep all of them or God lied to them.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#27
Mar 3, 2011
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#27
Oh and by the way the reason I have not directly addressed the Romans quotes you gave is because I want to go back to the foundation. We will go around in circles trying to debate where the bricks should go, but if our foundation is wrong then we will never agree.

So being that we are talking about if they could obey or not we should go back to what God said to them concerning the question. and if God says they could then you are reading Romans wrong as a brick on a faulty foundation. hope that makes sense.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#28
#28
MarcR said:
I agree fully with your title premise.

God gave the law to Israel and they were to keep it so that they would be the law to the Gentiles that the Gentiles would see and come to know God and also join themselves to God.

If God had expected Israel to keep the Law, they would have done so; since God is indisputably able to make it happen.

God knew, before the law was given, that Israel would not and could not keep it.
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Thats why he gave it, would not be much of a schoolmaster if it could be kept..
 
MarcR

MarcR

Senior Member
#29
Feb 12, 2015
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#29
gotime said:
Ok I think I see where you are coming from now. I do not agree however as God said they could keep it and God does not lie. This means they must have been able to keep it.

So do you think that the spirit was not available n the Old testament. I ask because I think it was, though we know more about Him now. But I think the problem was not that they could not keep it but rather they did not do so by faith and rather tried by works.
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God never said they could keep it. God said that they must keep it to earn His favor. Genesis 3:15 and 22:8 had already informed them of His provision for their unearned favor.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#30
Mar 3, 2011
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#30
MarcR said:
God never said they could keep it. God said that they must keep it to earn His favor. Genesis 3:15 and 22:8 had already informed them of His provision for their unearned favor.
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What then do you make of Deut that I quoted where it clearly says they could keep it?
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#31
Mar 3, 2011
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#31
one must remember there were curses for not keeping it and blessings for keeping them and biblical history shows God came through on what he said. So is God playing games with them telling them to do things knowing they can't and then punishing them because they fail? God forbid.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#32
Mar 3, 2011
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#32
Deu 6:3 Therefore listen, Isra'el, and take care to obey, so that things will go well with you, and so that you will increase greatly, as ADONAI, the God of your ancestors, promised you by giving you a land flowing with milk and honey.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#33
Mar 3, 2011
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#33
Ill tell the greatest deception Satan has done on Christians today is to give them a faulty view of the Old covenant.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#34
#34
gotime said:
Ill tell the greatest deception Satan has done on Christians today is to give them a faulty view of the Old covenant.
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I agree here, Although I think we may disagree as to what the faulty view is.
 
U

ukok102nak

Banned
#35
Jul 23, 2015
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#35
:sisid: Sad to say but another " man made doctrine " was been echoing
all around here coming from a certain :whistle:
:read:
Matthew: 13. 17. For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
18. Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21. Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22. He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23. But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

24. Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25. But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28. He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29. But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

:read: again the part of the revelation about
Revelation: 12. 17. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And also about this woman then choice
Revelation: 17. 5. And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

:scarf: Remember who was been cursed from the start
after that :yawn:
 
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nowyouseem033

nowyouseem033

Senior Member
#36
Jul 17, 2014
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#36
IMO I believe that not only did the jews not keep the law but also could not keep the law perfectly. In order for somebody to keep the law perfectly they require to have to be born perfectly not tainted by the effects of original sinned passed on from Adam. They are also to be full of the Spirit, and be blameless from birth. Unfortunately nobody is born in a state of holiness and perfection but we are born in a state of falleness. Only one person kept the law and fulfilled it, namely Jesus Christ our Lord. Gods law was never intended for us to obey in our own strength and wisdom. Gods law was always intended to show us that we re incapable and unable of keeping such high of a standard and therefore pointing to us a Saviour. The law emphasises Gods Holiness not our obedience or keeping of it. Again we cannot (unable) from day one to keep it.
 
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ukok102nak

Banned
#37
Jul 23, 2015
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#37
:smoke: Or shall we say " what is the difference between eve and mary " :happy:
 
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ukok102nak

Banned
#38
Jul 23, 2015
1,950
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#38
Original sinned :rofl:
And where in the scripture we may read that
" original sinned "

That is one of those many " man made doctrine "
that Christ Jesus told to his disciples

And that part you can read in the scripture for someone asked as before
" what is the very foundation of your faith? "
Then we answered back " anything that you can read in the scripture
Unless a man is talking their we will never abide from their rules "

Could you believed there were many there (people) written in the scriptures
Telling lies all along?
How we would supposed to know if all of us thinking we cannot abide the law of Our lord God who is good and doesn't lie and
Our lord God the only begotten son Jesus Christ
who is our saviour when the time comes . ...
 
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nowyouseem033

nowyouseem033

Senior Member
#39
Jul 17, 2014
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#39
oh so your not born a sinner... ! lol I think the bible would object with you.. the fact of the matter is that original sin explains why we are born sinners.. shheeesssh
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#40
Jun 24, 2011
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#40
When Paul said the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ he was saying that once we come to Christ the law has done its job.

The Lord Jesus Christ has fulfilled ALL the law. Those who work at parts of it are in unbelief. Believing instead that they must fulfill whatever parts that Christ has left undone.

But Paul says you can't just pick part of the law to follow it. Its all or nothing. You put your faith and trust in Christ or you put your faith and trust in your understanding, work and 'morality'.

That's where the stubbornness comes from. Stiff-necked people. They know the law is good. They 'know' they are 'keeping' it.

But they aren't keeping it. Its not kept by the flesh or carnal understanding. And, obviously, obviously, if someone points to the 10 commandments and says we must do that, then that is a fleshly carnal understanding. If it were a spiritual understanding then it couldn't be fulfilled by the flesh. Because the flesh cannot please God. Do you see???

You can't just tell someone that they aren't under the law. Because they are under the law. Until they come to Christ. And if they think they must fulfill all or part of the law by their fleshly carnal works and understanding they either haven't come to Christ or they haven't received rest or they have fallen into un-belief.

But you can't just tell someone that they don't have to follow whatever part of the law they think they need to. All you can do is tell people that that there is Rest in Christ. There is Peace in Christ. There is Joy in Christ. There is Relationship in Christ. There is Salvation in Christ.

The law is a way of pretending that you know God without having to come into relation with Him. You're scared because you deserve death, I get it. God is scary. He is powerful and we aren't. He is good and we aren't. We don't deserve to be in His Presence.

But He sent His Son Jesus Christ to take care of all that for us. You deserve death but He punished His Son so you wouldn't be afraid. You don't know what Love is but God gave His Son so you could have a glimpse.

The law is spiritual but you are carnal, sold under sin.

You can't have my understanding. You can't have my Revelation of Christ. You must go get your own. That takes relationship and lots of prayer. You can start with this one, if you are serious about Christ and really keeping the law.

Ephesians 1:17-23
[SUP]17 [/SUP]That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


God is the Provider. We are the recipients. That's the way it works. People try to reverse that with their 'obedience' to the law. But it is their mis-understanding. Our relationship to God can't be reversed. We have nothing to give Him. Anything you can think of that you think men give to God, God had to give it to man so that they had something to give...

Everything that is needful for Salvation is given by God. He is the source of all of our Blessing. God doesn't owe you anything. He gives because He is, and He Loves.

Everything in the Bible, and life, is set up like a Saul and David sort of test. The people keep choosing Saul because he seems like the right choice. But spiritually, they should be choosing David. Unfortunately they can't know it before hand.

The biblical King, The Godly King is always something different than what you expect. Because you aren't born understanding spiritual things. Reading a book doesn't make you spiritual or able to understand the spirit. Something has to go along with it.
 
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