I hope you fine Christian folks who think the created order in the sinless perfection of Eden is what defines sin, actually stick to that created order in your own lives, as stated right up front:
"And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them: and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." (Gen 1:27-28, ERV)
I suppose all you folks keep to the created order that ALL sex between man and wife must be patterned on procreative copulation because all else would be sin, right?
Jesus himself destroys the argument that the sinless perfection of creation determines what is sin. When asked about divorce by the Pharisees, Jesus recognizes man does not now live in a perfect world. We are in a fallen world and certain accommodations can be made:
"He saith unto them, Moses for your hardness of heart suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it hath not been so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth her when she is put away committeth adultery." (Matt 19:8-9, ERV)
A particular idiom comes to mind in this sort of discussion:
"methinks thou dost protest too much
Used to indicate that someone (not necessarily a woman) is only denying something so fervently because the opposite is actually true. Adapted from the line 'the lady doth protest too much, methinks' in Shakespeare's Hamlet, Act III, Scene ii."
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/methinks+thou+dost+protest+too+much
The Penguin Dictionary of Psychology, Second Edition 1995, by Arthur S. Reber, page 340 -
"homosexuality The term is used rather generally to refer to sexual contact between persons of the same gender. This 'contact' may be fleeting, nonorgasmic and occasional or it may represent an individual's dominant (if not exclusive) mode of sexual expression. In a very real sense then, the term may be found in the psychological literature covering persons ranging from those who have had but one or two half-hearted experiences to those for whom heterosexual contacts have been nonexistent. Comprehensive surveys suggest that perhaps 40% of the population have had at least one homosexual experience leading to orgasm whereas perhaps only 1% of the sexually active population is exclusively homosexual."
That short section will be seen to be supported widely if you spend any time reading up on the various studies and surveys done over the years. Objectivity requires going to research outside of one's subjective feelings.
There is no manuscript variance on the Greek word arsenokoites found in 1 Cor.6:9 & 1 Tim. 1:10, so the same Greek word in the TR behind the KJV, is the same as in the modern Greek text, the NA28. I do not think Bible scholars of today are brighter than the men who translated the KJV, certainly not with such a variance as modern translations put on that word. Yet, the odd thinking of some seems to be that sodomitic behavior of one male upon another makes all male to male sex sinful; yet, sodomitic behavior of a male upon a female does not make all male to female sex sinful. That is very strange logic.
The key words the KJV used for arsenokoites in 1 Cor. 6:9 & 1 Tim. 1:10 are "abuse(d)" and "defile(d)". Use a concordance and see how the KJV used those words in translating in the OT and you'll get an idea what the KJV men thought the word meant. "Defiled" is used in Genesis chapter 34, and "abused" in Judges 19:25. Use the 1828 Webster's English Dictionary on the two words as well.
Maybe "bigotry", rather than homophobia is a more fitting description of many posts I've seen in this thread. Thomas Jefferson described bigotry well:
"Bigotry is the disease of ignorance, of morbid minds"
"And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them: and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." (Gen 1:27-28, ERV)
I suppose all you folks keep to the created order that ALL sex between man and wife must be patterned on procreative copulation because all else would be sin, right?
Jesus himself destroys the argument that the sinless perfection of creation determines what is sin. When asked about divorce by the Pharisees, Jesus recognizes man does not now live in a perfect world. We are in a fallen world and certain accommodations can be made:
"He saith unto them, Moses for your hardness of heart suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it hath not been so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth her when she is put away committeth adultery." (Matt 19:8-9, ERV)
A particular idiom comes to mind in this sort of discussion:
"methinks thou dost protest too much
Used to indicate that someone (not necessarily a woman) is only denying something so fervently because the opposite is actually true. Adapted from the line 'the lady doth protest too much, methinks' in Shakespeare's Hamlet, Act III, Scene ii."
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/methinks+thou+dost+protest+too+much
The Penguin Dictionary of Psychology, Second Edition 1995, by Arthur S. Reber, page 340 -
"homosexuality The term is used rather generally to refer to sexual contact between persons of the same gender. This 'contact' may be fleeting, nonorgasmic and occasional or it may represent an individual's dominant (if not exclusive) mode of sexual expression. In a very real sense then, the term may be found in the psychological literature covering persons ranging from those who have had but one or two half-hearted experiences to those for whom heterosexual contacts have been nonexistent. Comprehensive surveys suggest that perhaps 40% of the population have had at least one homosexual experience leading to orgasm whereas perhaps only 1% of the sexually active population is exclusively homosexual."
That short section will be seen to be supported widely if you spend any time reading up on the various studies and surveys done over the years. Objectivity requires going to research outside of one's subjective feelings.
There is no manuscript variance on the Greek word arsenokoites found in 1 Cor.6:9 & 1 Tim. 1:10, so the same Greek word in the TR behind the KJV, is the same as in the modern Greek text, the NA28. I do not think Bible scholars of today are brighter than the men who translated the KJV, certainly not with such a variance as modern translations put on that word. Yet, the odd thinking of some seems to be that sodomitic behavior of one male upon another makes all male to male sex sinful; yet, sodomitic behavior of a male upon a female does not make all male to female sex sinful. That is very strange logic.
The key words the KJV used for arsenokoites in 1 Cor. 6:9 & 1 Tim. 1:10 are "abuse(d)" and "defile(d)". Use a concordance and see how the KJV used those words in translating in the OT and you'll get an idea what the KJV men thought the word meant. "Defiled" is used in Genesis chapter 34, and "abused" in Judges 19:25. Use the 1828 Webster's English Dictionary on the two words as well.
Maybe "bigotry", rather than homophobia is a more fitting description of many posts I've seen in this thread. Thomas Jefferson described bigotry well:
"Bigotry is the disease of ignorance, of morbid minds"
