Let's Add to the Gospel!

[crossnote]

I quote only the last part of your first entry above because that is the part I am responding to. I agree with your basic premise in the post that salvation is by faith in Christ and not by faith + works.! Absolutely!

My objection is small, but important. In trying to defend against those who use James to teach faith + works, you wind up doing backwards what those do.

For example: They (works salvationists) might say this: James spends a whole book teaching that you cannot be saved unless you have works, but then you are going to yank a couple of verses out context from Ephesians 2 just to make your pet doctrine that we are saved by faith alone.

(My plea is that we should not ever place one writer against another: they all teach the same thing, though at times from different angles.)

Those using James as a basis for teaching works have to add to what the text actually says to make their point. Many people do the same when using Ephesians 2:8-10 to say that we are saved by faith alone. But Paul does not say that here or anywhere else. We are saved by grace through faith, and not of works. There are other other places that say we are saved by faith, but nowhere does it say faith alone.

You wrote at one place: "have been regenerated solely on the basis of faith in Jesus and His Gospel (1Cor 15:1-4)?" If you take the word "solely" out of your statement, then you are Biblical. But with the word "solely" it would literally mean that God's grace has nothing to do with the process. Now you added the words "and His Gospel" and it could be argued that "grace" is included in the "Gospel" and that could be correct. OK.

But my point is this: In endeavoring to react to those who teach faith + works from James, do not do the same thing with Paul that they do with James.

Just teach what the Bible says: We are saved by grace through faith, not of works . . ."

The word ‘alone’ is extremely important and fits the concept being communicated by Paul here...
Romans 4:6 NET
[6] So even David himself speaks regarding the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
If not faith ‘alone’ please answer, ‘what else must be added to faith in order to be justified/saved’?

I hope you realize that many theologically liberal denominations joined hands with Rome’s view of ‘justification by faith alone‘ because the word ‘alone’ was dropped. Is that where you stand?

 

[crossnote]

It adds nothing, yes you are correct,

But it will determine wether or not you endure to the end.

Faith in Christ Jesus alone will determine that.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Faith in Christ Jesus alone will determine that.

The verse below seems to indicate otherwise:

John 8:31
[31] Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed

Continuing in Christ’s word will determine who the true believers are, not faith alone.

Faith alone only grants a believer to start in his word with a clean sin record.

That’s what the scriptures in totality imply.

 

[Chester]

No. We are talking about our works. When My parents gave me a gift, it was not because of my work. it was because of their love. they did the work to earn the money to pay for the gift they purchased.


I am saved by my faith apart from any works that I have done, Literally faith alone


Because as with the early church, People wish to add works to faith in order to try to save themselves. Because they lack faith that Gods work was enough. So they add in their works.

Why would paul spend so much of his writings apposing a faith plus works false gospel if it was not an issue.

we see today people are doing the very same thing. and just like Paul, Jesus and many others were attacked for preaching salvation by faith alone. We too are being attacked. Because pride, which is the root of licentious and legalistic thinking. is the one thing that must be broken.. If not. it lashes out.. Like you see here.

And yet Paul never said we are saved by "faith alone" - he simply taught salvation by faith, and not by works.

Yes, I agree, Paul spent much time opposing a faith plus works gospel because it was an issue of his time and is still an issue today. Absolutely! If you want proof it is still a big issue today - then hang around and peruse CC for a little while! LOL!

The "faith alone" wording is a doctrinal addition added by men and never by said by Paul or the other NT writers. And why did they not use it? Because we are not saved "by faith alone" - there are other elements involved in salvation such as God's grace and the death and resurrection of Jesus.

If you want to use "faith alone" to mean we are not saved by works, you may use it that way and I understand. But I am not going to use it and just stick to Paul's words that we are saved by grace through faith, not of works, but we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works.

 

[Chester]

I am saved by my faith apart from any works that I have done, Literally faith alone

Well, you may say it that way if you like and I understand. But the New Testament never says salvation is by "faith alone."

For me - I am saved by grace through faith, not of works, but I am God's workmanship.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And yet Paul never said we are saved by "faith alone" - he simply taught salvation by faith, and not by works.

Which equals faith alone

We are talking about what a person does to be saved.

When we say faith alone. it means that an induvidual is saved by faith apart from works.

which as you said, is what paul taught.

Yes, I agree, Paul spent much time opposing a faith plus works gospel because it was an issue of his time and is still an issue today. Absolutely! If you want proof it is still a big issue today - then hang around and peruse CC for a little while! LOL!

The "faith alone" wording is a doctrinal addition added by men and never by said by Paul or the other NT writers. And why did they not use it? Because we are not saved "by faith alone" - there are other elements involved in salvation such as God's grace and the death and resurrection of Jesus.

If you want to use "faith alone" to mean we are not saved by works, you may use it that way and I understand. But I am not going to use it and just stick to Paul's words that we are saved by grace through faith, not of works, but we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works.

Grace and the work of God are not things I did to be saved.

Again, The topic is what did I do. I am saved by my faith alone (no works)

I do not think anyone would think if they heard it someone is saying that we believe we are saved by just faith. Not by grace or the work of God on the cross and the work on drawing us to him.

so honestly. I do not see your point.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, you may say it that way if you like and I understand. But the New Testament never says salvation is by "faith alone."

For me - I am saved by grace through faith, not of works, but I am God's workmanship.

IE faith alone lol



One thing to remember, We do not use the term just out of the blue. It is used when people want to add works to savation. They teach faith plus works.

Faith alone is a counter to their faith plus works argument. otherwise it would probably never be used.

I do not go tell people they must be saved by faith alone. That would not even make sense.

 

[Chester]

The word ‘alone’ is extremely important and fits the concept being communicated by Paul here...
Romans 4:6 NET
[6] So even David himself speaks regarding the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
If not faith ‘alone’ please answer, ‘what else must be added to faith in order to be justified/saved’?

I hope you realize that many theologically liberal denominations joined hands with Rome’s view of ‘justification by faith alone‘ because the word ‘alone’ was dropped. Is that where you stand?

I don't base my doctrine or way of saying doctrine on any denominations or any denominations' responses to Rome or otherwise.

It is not "faith alone", because I am not saved solely by my faith in Jesus - that is really saving myself - but God's grace is the beginning and then it is because of Jesus' death and resurrection - so I am not saved by "faith alone".

I am saved by grace through faith and not of works, but I am God's workmanship.

 

[garee]

Faith in Christ Jesus alone will determine that.

Yes, it is the work of God's faithfulness as a labor of the Father and the Son love that works in us. Not us us who previously had no faith by which we could please God, our Emanuel.

 

[Chester]

Which equals faith alone

We are talking about what a person does to be saved.

When we say faith alone. it means that an induvidual is saved by faith apart from works.

which as you said, is what paul taught.


Grace and the work of God are not things I did to be saved.

Again, The topic is what did I do. I am saved by my faith alone (no works)

I do not think anyone would think if they heard it someone is saying that we believe we are saved by just faith. Not by grace or the work of God on the cross and the work on drawing us to him.

so honestly. I do not see your point.

LOL! I am doing a very nasty thing here - but I am doing it to make a point: Her is a direct quote from what you wrote above:

Again, The topic is what did I do. I am saved by my faith alone (no works)

You did not mean that quote by itself and it is unfair of me to take it out that way, I know! But that is why I do not ever say I am saved by "faith alone" because to me what you wrote above is implied in saying "faith alone"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL! I am doing a very nasty thing here - but I am doing it to make a point: Her is a direct quote from what you wrote above:

Again, The topic is what did I do. I am saved by my faith alone (no works)

You did not mean that quote by itself and it is unfair of me to take it out that way, I know! But that is why I do not ever say I am saved by "faith alone" because to me what you wrote above is implied in saying "faith alone"

again it is the same thing

I sued faith alone as a counter to your argument

Faith alone most likely came as a counter to the romanistic view,, As shown in Luther's arguments against them, Although he failed to understand James, so he actually hurt his own case by claiming it is not scripture.

 

[Chester]

Faith in Christ Jesus alone will determine that.

By the way, crossnote, I love your line "a theologian is a person who can't sing"!!!

Funny thing is, you are a pretty good theologian yourself, and I somehow bet you are a good singer too!

 

[Nehemiah6]

Simple questions from a reading of this account.

There was a transitional period in Church history where saved Jews continued to be faithfully Torah observant. There is nothing surprising about that, since Christ Himself was Torah observant.

It took some time for Christian truths to be established in the churches and the teachings of Paul to be circulated throughout the churches. But the church at Jerusalem was altogether Jewish, and as long as the temple stood, they observed Jewish customs. And in order to avoid these saved Jews, Paul accommodated them without compromising Christian truth.

At the same time the apostles preached the true Gospel of salvation by grace through faith in Christ, and His finished work of redemption. And Peter was the first apostle to preach to Gentiles and bring them to salvation.

 

[Chester]

again it is the same thing

I sued faith alone as a counter to your argument

Faith alone most likely came as a counter to the romanistic view,, As shown in Luther's arguments against them, Although he failed to understand James, so he actually hurt his own case by claiming it is not scripture.

LOL! I tried to find the right response to your point -- I couldn't use the "agree" or "thumbs up" because I don't agree that "it is the same thing", but I understand your response and agree completely with your analysis of it coming as a counter to the Romanistic view, etc. I almost gave you a ZZzzzzz, but that is a "negative" response - and I don't feel negative about what you said - but it does about make me sleep . . . LOL! So a happy face answered best!

Good day, I will probably not be on much till next week. God bless, friend, . . .

 

[crossnote]

The verse below seems to indicate otherwise:

John 8:31
[31] Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed

Continuing in Christ’s word will determine who the true believers are, not faith alone.

Faith alone only grants a believer to start in his word with a clean sin record.

That’s what the scriptures in totality imply.

That's nonsensical, as faith is inextricably linked with His Word and promises...

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Rom 10:17)

1 Peter 2:2 (KJV) As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

 

[crossnote]

I don't base my doctrine or way of saying doctrine on any denominations or any denominations' responses to Rome or otherwise.

It is not "faith alone", because I am not saved solely by my faith in Jesus - that is really saving myself - but God's grace is the beginning and then it is because of Jesus' death and resurrection - so I am not saved by "faith alone".

I am saved by grace through faith and not of works, but I am God's workmanship.

I believe I made it clear it is by grace alone, when I asked 'what else must be added to Christ's work to justify/save us.
You are tweaking your original objection from "no verse says 'alone'" to "It is not 'by faith alone'" but rather "by grace 'through faith alone'".
I agree with the latter but not the former as I have shown you with...
Romans 4:6 NET
[6] So even David himself speaks regarding the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

 

[crossnote]

By the way, crossnote, I love your line "a theologian is a person who can't sing"!!!

Funny thing is, you are a pretty good theologian yourself, and I somehow bet you are a good singer too!

Actually, I am a horrible singer. I got kicked out of singing tryouts in the 6th grade. I was so bad the examiner was furious and claimed I was just trying to ditch class. But my theology isn't much better according to some LOL.

 

[Chester]

I believe I made it clear it is by grace alone, when I asked 'what else must be added to Christ's work to justify/save us.
You are tweaking your original objection from "no verse says 'alone'" to "It is not 'by faith alone'" but rather "by grace 'through faith alone'".
I agree with the latter but not the former as I have shown you with...
Romans 4:6 NET
[6] So even David himself speaks regarding the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Now you have me confused . . . Where did I say it is by "grace through faith alone"? I do not think I have ever added the word "alone" to any of my statements, unless it was a mistake.

It cannot be both "by grace alone" and "by faith alone" because both are working together - it is by grace through faith . . .

 

[Chester]

Actually, I am a horrible singer. I got kicked out of singing tryouts in the 6th grade. I was so bad the examiner was furious and claimed I was just trying to ditch class. But my theology isn't much better according to some LOL.

LOL! One choir I sang in the choir director had an agreement with me that when he looked at me that meant I was only to mouth the words - in other words - I was singing horribly off tune. I have gotten a little better since then.

Your theology is pretty good - and it could be better if you would just let me patch it up a bit . . .

 

[crossnote]

Now you have me confused . . . Where did I say it is by "grace through faith alone"? I do not think I have ever added the word "alone" to any of my statements, unless it was a mistake.

It cannot be both "by grace alone" and "by faith alone" because both are working together - it is by grace through faith . . .

Ok, let's start over.
Do you believe the 'proper' way of expressing it..."We are saved by grace alone through faith alone on account of Christ alone"? (Part of the Solas of the Reformation). I do...your turn.