Lets talk about Paul

[Rainrider]

Romans 12

1 I exhort you, therefore, brothers, in view of God's mercies, to offer yourselves as a sacrifice, living and set apart for God. This will please him; it is the logical "Temple worship" for you.
2 In other words, do not let yourselves be conformed to the standards of the 'olam hazeh. Instead, keep letting yourselves be transformed by the renewing of your minds; so that you will know what God wants and will agree that what he wants is good, satisfying and able to succeed.

Paul calls on us, to sacrifice our lives to HaShem. This does mean to run out and burn yourselves up, so please don't do that. LOL What he is calling us to do is to turn our lives over to HaShem, open our hearts, and minds so that He may use us as He sees need.
The use of the phrases Sacrifice you selves, and Temple worship here are sricking in that at that time animal sacrifices were still being offered 2 times a day in the temple.
olam hazeh. (This world) Paul warns us here about the study of the things of this world. As they seem never be about HaShem, so that we have more time to learn more about HaShem. As we can all agree what we learn when we study the Word, and learn more about HaShem, is that it satisfying psychologically, and leads us to the goals that has been placed before us by His Word.
3 For I am telling every single one of you, through the grace that has been given to me, not to have exaggerated ideas about your own importance. Instead, develop a sober estimate of yourself based on the standard which God has given to each of you, namely, trust.

4 For just as there are many parts that compose one body, but the parts don't all have the same function;
5 so there are many of us, and in union with the Messiah we comprise one body, with each of us belonging to the others.
6 But we have gifts that differ and which are meant to be used according to the grace that has been given to us. If your gift is prophecy, use it to the extent of your trust;
7 if it is serving, use it to serve; if you are a teacher, use your gift in teaching;

Sadly many have given into the idea that they are better than others, due to the gift that has been loaned to them. They over look the fact that as humans, we are pron to failure. This is why any good pastor, rabbi, or teacher, will seek out others that are gifted, where they are not. In doing this, they both place the focus back on HaShem and remove it from themselves, as well as opening the door for others to bring glory to HaShem in their gifts. When all the gifts come together in this way, it lifts the faithfulness of the body as a whole.
8 if you are a counselor, use your gift to comfort and exhort; if you are someone who gives, do it simply and generously; if you are in a position of leadership, lead with diligence and zeal; if you are one who does acts of mercy, do them cheerfully.

9 Don't let love be a mere outward show. Recoil from what is evil, and cling to what is good.
10 Love each other devotedly and with brotherly love; and set examples for each other in showing respect.
11 Don't be lazy when hard work is needed, but serve the Lord with spiritual fervor.
12 Rejoice in your hope, be patient in your troubles, and continue steadfastly in prayer.
13 Share what you have with God's people, and practice hospitality.
14 Bless those who persecute you - bless them, don't curse them!
15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.
16 Be sensitive to each other's needs - don't think yourselves better than others, but make humble people your friends. Don't be conceited.
17 Repay no one evil for evil, but try to do what everyone regards as good.
18 If possible, and to the extent that it depends on you, live in peace with all people.
19 Never seek revenge, my friends; instead, leave that to God's anger; for in the Tanakh it is written, "ADONAI says, 'Vengeance is my responsibility; I will repay.'"
20 On the contrary, "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. For by doing this, you will heap fiery coals [of shame] on his head."
21 Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good.

8-21 speaks of many things, In all they come down to loving, lifting up, and helping one another. Much the same as what is found in the words of Yeshua sermon on the mount. This however is no reason to see the NT as teaching different values than what we find in the Tanakh. Most of what is said in this chapter is self-explanatory, and yields it's implications to anyone who will think.

 

[Rainrider]

Romans 13

1 Everyone is to obey the governing authorities. For there is no authority that is not from God, and the existing authorities have been placed where they are by God.
2 Therefore, whoever resists the authorities is resisting what God has instituted; and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers are no terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you like to be unafraid of the person in authority? Then simply do what is good, and you will win his approval;
4 for he is God's servant, there for your benefit. But if you do what is wrong, be afraid! Because it is not for nothing that he holds the power of the sword; for he is God's servant, there as an avenger to punish wrongdoers.
5 Another reason to obey, besides fear of punishment, is for the sake of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes; for the authorities are God's public officials, constantly attending to these duties.
7 Pay everyone what he is owed: if you owe the tax-collector, pay your taxes; if you owe the revenue-collector, pay revenue; if you owe someone respect, pay him respect; if you owe someone honor, pay him honor.

This passage has been used many times to show that one can't truly follow what the Bible tells us to do. In most resent days, toughs that wish make their point use homosexuality to make it. They say that if we follow this passage to the letter, then we must openly except that same sex marriage is a good thing. After all Obama has passed a law that comes down to just that.
If one reads this, and truly understands that Torah, as well as the NT, then they would know the truth. We are to obey HaShem, and not man. Acts 5:29. After all does not HaShem's Words override that of man?
Yet we should give the respect due to our leaders. We should lift them in prayer, even if we don't agree with them. Just as Paul tells us, the Word teaches us, that HaShem has His reason for placing people in power, when He needs that person there. Before anyone tries to say, we shouldn't vote then. Keep in mind, that a nation is judged by the actions of that nation as a whole. So when the people of a nation sit back and do nothing, as abrasion, same sex marriage, and other sinful acts are forced to be on us, We as a nation, have turned our backs on HaShem, as well as said that we will not follow in faith, what we have been called to follow.
8 Don't owe anyone anything - except to love one another; for whoever loves his fellow human being has fulfilled Torah.

9 For the commandments, "Don't commit adultery," "Don't murder," "Don't steal," "Don't covet," and any others are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Although it is through Love that we find fulfillment of the Torah, acting out side of the Torah, removes us from HaShem, and though we may say we follow Yeshua, and hold fast our faith in Him for salvation, it means nothing at all. You see, no matter what we may say, it is in our actions that we show our faith. In other Words, with out obedience to the Word, we will find that when we come calling Lord Lord, He will reply, I never know you. Mat. 7:23
10 Love does not do harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fullness of Torah.

11 Besides all this, you know at what point of history we stand; so it is high time for you to rouse yourselves from sleep; for the final deliverance is nearer than when we first came to trust.
12 The night is almost over, the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and arm ourselves with the weapons of light.
13 Let us live properly, as people do in the daytime - not partying and getting drunk, not engaging in sexual immorality and other excesses, not quarrelling and being jealous.
14 Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Yeshua the Messiah; and don't waste your time thinking about how to provide for the sinful desires of your old nature.

Although this chapter is also self-explanatory, I feel lead to ask. If the USA is a nation of something like 75% professed Christians, why is there any question of abortion, same sex marriage, gambling, and so on? Should we not stand up, and let the nation know that we will not take part in those actions? Should we not cast our votes in favor of HaShem? Bringing to an abrupt end the notion that we will bow to sin? Should we not stand together, when one of our own faces a law suit that may take everything they have? If every person that said, "I am a believer, and walk in the faith of Yeshua as my redeemer." would give just $5 every time one of our own is forced into a fight over their faith, it wouldn't be long before that came to an end. You see, it isn't that they care if they win the fight, they just want to put believers out of business. That or force them to turn their back on their faith. Think about this when you see what may seem to a fight over the rights of people. It is truly a fight of a spiritual nature. Do we still wish to sit back and do nothing?

Shabbot Shalom

 

[MarcR]

Romans 13

1 Everyone is to obey the governing authorities. For there is no authority that is not from God, and the existing authorities have been placed where they are by God.
2 Therefore, whoever resists the authorities is resisting what God has instituted; and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers are no terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you like to be unafraid of the person in authority? Then simply do what is good, and you will win his approval;
4 for he is God's servant, there for your benefit. But if you do what is wrong, be afraid! Because it is not for nothing that he holds the power of the sword; for he is God's servant, there as an avenger to punish wrongdoers.
5 Another reason to obey, besides fear of punishment, is for the sake of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes; for the authorities are God's public officials, constantly attending to these duties.
7 Pay everyone what he is owed: if you owe the tax-collector, pay your taxes; if you owe the revenue-collector, pay revenue; if you owe someone respect, pay him respect; if you owe someone honor, pay him honor.

This passage has been used many times to show that one can't truly follow what the Bible tells us to do. In most resent days, toughs that wish make their point use homosexuality to make it. They say that if we follow this passage to the letter, then we must openly except that same sex marriage is a good thing. After all Obama has passed a law that comes down to just that.
If one reads this, and truly understands that Torah, as well as the NT, then they would know the truth. We are to obey HaShem, and not man. Acts 5:29. After all does not HaShem's Words override that of man?
Yet we should give the respect due to our leaders. We should lift them in prayer, even if we don't agree with them. Just as Paul tells us, the Word teaches us, that HaShem has His reason for placing people in power, when He needs that person there. Before anyone tries to say, we shouldn't vote then. Keep in mind, that a nation is judged by the actions of that nation as a whole. So when the people of a nation sit back and do nothing, as abrasion, same sex marriage, and other sinful acts are forced to be on us, We as a nation, have turned our backs on HaShem, as well as said that we will not follow in faith, what we have been called to follow.
8 Don't owe anyone anything - except to love one another; for whoever loves his fellow human being has fulfilled Torah.

9 For the commandments, "Don't commit adultery," "Don't murder," "Don't steal," "Don't covet," and any others are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Although it is through Love that we find fulfillment of the Torah, acting out side of the Torah, removes us from HaShem, and though we may say we follow Yeshua, and hold fast our faith in Him for salvation, it means nothing at all. You see, no matter what we may say, it is in our actions that we show our faith. In other Words, with out obedience to the Word, we will find that when we come calling Lord Lord, He will reply, I never know you. Mat. 7:23
10 Love does not do harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fullness of Torah.

11 Besides all this, you know at what point of history we stand; so it is high time for you to rouse yourselves from sleep; for the final deliverance is nearer than when we first came to trust.
12 The night is almost over, the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and arm ourselves with the weapons of light.
13 Let us live properly, as people do in the daytime - not partying and getting drunk, not engaging in sexual immorality and other excesses, not quarrelling and being jealous.
14 Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Yeshua the Messiah; and don't waste your time thinking about how to provide for the sinful desires of your old nature.

Although this chapter is also self-explanatory, I feel lead to ask. If the USA is a nation of something like 75% professed Christians, why is there any question of abortion, same sex marriage, gambling, and so on? Should we not stand up, and let the nation know that we will not take part in those actions? Should we not cast our votes in favor of HaShem? Bringing to an abrupt end the notion that we will bow to sin? Should we not stand together, when one of our own faces a law suit that may take everything they have? If every person that said, "I am a believer, and walk in the faith of Yeshua as my redeemer." would give just $5 every time one of our own is forced into a fight over their faith, it wouldn't be long before that came to an end. You see, it isn't that they care if they win the fight, they just want to put believers out of business. That or force them to turn their back on their faith. Think about this when you see what may seem to a fight over the rights of people. It is truly a fight of a spiritual nature. Do we still wish to sit back and do nothing?

Shabbot Shalom

Ac 4:17-20
17 But that it spread no further among the people, let us straitly threaten them, that they speak henceforth to no man in this name.
18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.
19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.
KJV

I think that the Scriptural precedent is that we are to obey the civil authorities unless or until what they tell us is in direct conflict with Scripture; but obedience to God comes first.

 

[graceNpeace]

Romans 13

1 Everyone is to obey the governing authorities. For there is no authority that is not from God, and the existing authorities have been placed where they are by God.
2 Therefore, whoever resists the authorities is resisting what God has instituted; and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers are no terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you like to be unafraid of the person in authority? Then simply do what is good, and you will win his approval;
4 for he is God's servant, there for your benefit. But if you do what is wrong, be afraid! Because it is not for nothing that he holds the power of the sword; for he is God's servant, there as an avenger to punish wrongdoers.
5 Another reason to obey, besides fear of punishment, is for the sake of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes; for the authorities are God's public officials, constantly attending to these duties.
7 Pay everyone what he is owed: if you owe the tax-collector, pay your taxes; if you owe the revenue-collector, pay revenue; if you owe someone respect, pay him respect; if you owe someone honor, pay him honor.

This passage has been used many times to show that one can't truly follow what the Bible tells us to do. In most resent days, toughs that wish make their point use homosexuality to make it. They say that if we follow this passage to the letter, then we must openly except that same sex marriage is a good thing. After all Obama has passed a law that comes down to just that.
If one reads this, and truly understands that Torah, as well as the NT, then they would know the truth. We are to obey HaShem, and not man. Acts 5:29. After all does not HaShem's Words override that of man?
Yet we should give the respect due to our leaders. We should lift them in prayer, even if we don't agree with them. Just as Paul tells us, the Word teaches us, that HaShem has His reason for placing people in power, when He needs that person there. Before anyone tries to say, we shouldn't vote then. Keep in mind, that a nation is judged by the actions of that nation as a whole. So when the people of a nation sit back and do nothing, as abrasion, same sex marriage, and other sinful acts are forced to be on us, We as a nation, have turned our backs on HaShem, as well as said that we will not follow in faith, what we have been called to follow.
8 Don't owe anyone anything - except to love one another; for whoever loves his fellow human being has fulfilled Torah.

9 For the commandments, "Don't commit adultery," "Don't murder," "Don't steal," "Don't covet," and any others are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Although it is through Love that we find fulfillment of the Torah, acting out side of the Torah, removes us from HaShem, and though we may say we follow Yeshua, and hold fast our faith in Him for salvation, it means nothing at all. You see, no matter what we may say, it is in our actions that we show our faith. In other Words, with out obedience to the Word, we will find that when we come calling Lord Lord, He will reply, I never know you. Mat. 7:23
10 Love does not do harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fullness of Torah.

11 Besides all this, you know at what point of history we stand; so it is high time for you to rouse yourselves from sleep; for the final deliverance is nearer than when we first came to trust.
12 The night is almost over, the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and arm ourselves with the weapons of light.
13 Let us live properly, as people do in the daytime - not partying and getting drunk, not engaging in sexual immorality and other excesses, not quarrelling and being jealous.
14 Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Yeshua the Messiah; and don't waste your time thinking about how to provide for the sinful desires of your old nature.

Although this chapter is also self-explanatory, I feel lead to ask. If the USA is a nation of something like 75% professed Christians, why is there any question of abortion, same sex marriage, gambling, and so on? Should we not stand up, and let the nation know that we will not take part in those actions? Should we not cast our votes in favor of HaShem? Bringing to an abrupt end the notion that we will bow to sin? Should we not stand together, when one of our own faces a law suit that may take everything they have? If every person that said, "I am a believer, and walk in the faith of Yeshua as my redeemer." would give just $5 every time one of our own is forced into a fight over their faith, it wouldn't be long before that came to an end. You see, it isn't that they care if they win the fight, they just want to put believers out of business. That or force them to turn their back on their faith. Think about this when you see what may seem to a fight over the rights of people. It is truly a fight of a spiritual nature. Do we still wish to sit back and do nothing?

Shabbot Shalom

The USA is not a Christian country - in fact there is no such thing as a Christian country.
It does amuse me, this fiction that many Americans believe that theirs is indeed a 'Christian country' when the evidence is so solidly against it.

That percentage (75%) of so-called Christians in the USA is another complete furphy.
In Australia 90+% of people state on their census returns that are Christian of one flavour or another however the truth is this: less than 6% of Australians ever go to church - perhaps on Christmas Day only - and less than 1% attend regularly.
In practice Australia is a solidly pagan country where anything goes and in fact is vigorously encouraged.
Being known as a Christian will often result in rebuke and criticism from work colleagues and casual acquaintances.
Hopefully one has picked one's friends well...

I would say that the percentage of the population in the USA that regularly attends church (not in itself proof of anything but a better measure than a census return) is probably 10-20% at best (an estimate as I have no specific data).

 

[Rainrider]

1 Now as for a person whose trust is weak, welcome him - but not to get into arguments over opinions.
2 One person has the trust that will allow him to eat anything, while another whose trust is weak eats only vegetables.
3 The one who eats anything must not look down on the one who abstains; and the abstainer must not pass judgment on the one who eats anything, because God has accepted him -
4 who are you to pass judgment on someone else's servant? It is before his own master that he will stand or fall; and the fact is that he will stand, because the Lord is able to make him stand.

One commentator Tells us this is to the Gentile and not to the Jewish believers. As this can be seen in that light, as it seems to talk more of meat being offered to idols. This conclusion is drawn from many other passages of Paul's writings, and also from the book of Daniel. Even if this commentator is wrong in their assessment, the lesson remains. When we speak with others, it is wrong of us to try and force our ideas on them. Though one may wish to follow the Torah, and do their best to live it out in their lives, it is not our place to say they are saved or unsaved. As they may look upon a person that doesn't as having a weak form of faith, just as those that don't may see the other as having weak faith. HaShem will be our final judge, and it is only His judgment that will count.
5 One person considers some days more holy than others, while someone else regards them as being all alike. What is important is for each to be fully convinced in his own mind.

6 He who observes a day as special does so to honor the Lord. Also he who eats anything, eats to honor the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; likewise the abstainer abstains to honor the Lord, and he too gives thanks to God.

This does seem to speak to the feast, and Sabbath. BY telling us that we must fully convinced in our own minds, Paul may letting us know that if our hearts are right, and we by our actions, bring glory to HaShem in what we do, then there is no reason, or room to belittle one another. After all, Is not our action, a reflection of our hearts? One thing most don't stop to think about is that by our actions, we can drive others away from salvation.
7 For none of us lives only in relation to himself, and none of us dies only in relation to himself;

8 for if we live, we live in relation to the Lord; and if we die, we die in relation to the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord -

As true believers, we don't live our lives to make our selves happy. We all do what is right in our own heart, according to what we find in scripture. We do this not please ourselves, or others, rather we do this to both please and bring Glory to HaShem. If one man follows the Leviticus Diet, what is that to one that doesn't? Nothing, after all the one that does will stand in answer for his actions, just the one that doesn't. As seen in verse 11 of this same chapter.

9 indeed, it was for this very reason that the Messiah died and came back to life, so that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You then, why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For all of us will stand before God's judgment seat;
11 since it is written in the Tanakh, "As I live, says ADONAI, every knee will bend before me, and every tongue will publicly acknowledge God."
12 So then, every one of us will have to give an account of himself to God.
13 Therefore, let's stop passing judgment on each other! Instead, make this one judgment - not to put a stumbling block or a snare in a brother's way.
14 I know - that is, I have been persuaded by the Lord Yeshua the Messiah - that nothing is unclean in itself. But if a person considers something unclean, then for him it is unclean;

Can it be that here Paul is not speaking of spiritual rather than ritual uncleanliness? To cover both sides of this topic, we need to look at both. As Paul did allude to Leviticus 19, as it is full of commandments about ritual cleanliness. One can be lead to follow this as his topic. Making ones self clean before entering a church may not be a commandment, though it is the right thing to do. So yes I do ask if you sit next to me, please be clean. We all know, (or should) that no matter how much we scrub the skin, the heart is untouched by this action. However if ones look at this passage as being spiritual unclean, then they are looking to the true intent, (I M H O) of the passage. If one sees pork as unclean, who are we to say they are wrong? After all the Word does say this. So by a person follows the feast of HaShem, not out of any legalistic ideas, rather from their heart, as their way to honor HaShem, are they wrong? I would hope not. After all, they are following their hearts in this matter. Seeking to give glory to HaShem for both things past, as well as things to come.
15 and if your brother is being upset by the food you eat, your life is no longer one of love. Do not, by your eating habits, destroy someone for whom the Messiah died!

Though I find this to be self evident, I do feel led to say, if what we eat has the power to upset another, when we are around them we should refrain for eating the things they are upset by. As Paul said, to do this shows Love, and concern for our fellow man. After all, if they are weak in their faith, then little things can push them away, or place doubt in their hearts as to their own faith.
16 Do not let what you know to be good, be spoken of as bad;

17 for the Kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, shalom and joy in the Ruach HaKodesh.
18 Anyone who serves the Messiah in this fashion both pleases God and wins the approval of other people.
19 So then, let us pursue the things that make for shalom and mutual upbuilding.
20 Don't tear down God's work for the sake of food. True enough, all things are clean; but it is wrong for anybody by his eating to cause someone to fall away.
21 What is good is not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.
22 The belief you hold about such things, keep between yourself and God. Happy the person who is free of self-condemnation when he approves of something!
23 But the doubter comes under condemnation if he eats, because his action is not based on trust. And anything not based on trust is a sin.

The last passage does need to be addressed. Some may see verse 23 as the axiom of New Covenant thinking and behavior. In their minds, when one follows the Torah, they are lost, and have remove Yeshua from the focus of salvation. However, that may not be entirely true. You see, many in this world follow the Torah out of their love for Yeshua, and their need to walk in obedience. So in their hearts, they are doing what is right, both to honor HaShem, and to let the light of Yeshua's love, and salvation shine in them.

(note) Having both read and been in the worn out topic of following the law or not. Having been in many church's, and heard many teachings on the topic, not one has ever changed who I am, or how I live my life for HaShem. None ever will.
I know in my heart that Yeshua is the foundation my salvation rest in, I obey not to be saved, rather I obey because I am saved.

 

[Rainrider]

Romans 15

1 So we who are strong have a duty to bear the weaknesses of those who are not strong, rather than please ourselves.
2 Each of us should please his neighbor and act for his good, thus building him up.
3 For even the Messiah did not please himself;

Although many commentators today speak about how one kind of faith is strong and others are weak, to simply place condemnation on what one see's as week Paul makes clear how wrong that is. When we place our self, or what we follow above that of others, we take a chance of pushing them away. This is why we should do our best to follow what Yeshua not only spoke of, He also walked it in His own life. To not please ones self, is a line of thinking that has been replaced with the idea of look for #1. That means that everyone should look after themselves, and not slow down to help others. Lets say that you, and a coworker were up promotion. You have you house paid for already, and the kids or out on their own. This would mean a big raise for you, along a lot of perks. Your co worker, has 3 kids at home, a house payment, and 2 car payments. He really needs the raise, you on the hand can get by with out it. Do you pass it up, so that he will get it, or do try hard to make sure you get it? An honest answer in your heart, will show just how well you do in not thinking of self.
4 For rather, as the Tanakh says, 'The insults of those insulting you fell on me.'everything written in the past was written to teach us, so that with the encouragement of the Tanakh we might patiently hold on to our hope.

Paul may seem to say that the Tanakh has been replaced at times. However here it is clear that he tells us that is not so. Every word of the Bible has been recorded to encourage us. The Word as a hole should hold a place in the heart of true followers.
5 And may God, the source of encouragement and patience, give you the same attitude among yourselves as the Messiah Yeshua had,

6 so that with one accord and with one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah.

Though many say they have the Spirit of Yeshua in their hearts, it would hard to see it with out them having pointed it out. Of all the churchs I have been in, and all of them I have spoken in, it seems that they all wish to set theirs above any other. Both in faith, and understanding. The idea however, ( at lest in this passage) is that no matter what we may think or follow, we should join in one voice to raise up one another, and in so doing, we show the Grace of HaShem, and the ever Loving faithfulness of Yeshua.
7 So welcome each other, just as the Messiah has welcomed you into God's glory.

8 For I say that the Messiah became a servant of the Jewish people in order to show God's truthfulness by making good his promises to the Patriarchs,
9 and in order to show his mercy by causing the Gentiles to glorify God - as it is written in the Tanakh, "Because of this I will acknowledge you among the Gentiles and sing praise to your name."
10 And again it says, "Gentiles, rejoice with his people."
11 And again, "Praise ADONAI, all Gentiles! Let all peoples praise him!"
12 And again, Yesha'yahu says, "The root of Yishai will come, he who arises to rule Gentiles; Gentiles will put their hope in him."
13 May God, the source of hope, fill you completely with joy and shalom as you continue trusting, so that by the power of the Ruach HaKodesh you may overflow with hope.

the verse above come from the Tanakh, in this order. Duet 32:43, Ps 117:1, and Isa 11:10. In short, it tells us, (as did Rom. 11) that we should not reject HaShem's people. They after all His people, He picked them to be a light unto the nations, and to teach His word to the world. The short prayer we see here is one that we may wish to add to our own, for ever person we know, and even them we have never seen, or heard their names.
14 Now I myself am convinced, my brothers, that you are full of goodness, filled with knowledge and well able to counsel each other.

15 But on some points I have written you quite boldly by way of reminding you about them, because of the grace God has given me
16 to be a servant of the Messiah Yeshua for the Gentiles, with the priestly duty of presenting the Good News of God, so that the Gentiles may be an acceptable offering, made holy by the Ruach HaKodesh.
17 In union with the Messiah Yeshua, then, I have reason to be proud of my service to God;
18 for I will not dare speak of anything except what the Messiah has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience by my words and deeds,
19 through the power of signs and miracles, through the power of the Spirit of God. So from Yerushalayim all the way to Illyricum I have fully proclaimed the Good News of the Messiah.
20 I have always made it my ambition to proclaim the Good News where the Messiah was not yet known, so that I would not be building on someone else's foundation,
21 but rather, as the Tanakh puts it, "Those who have not been told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand."

Is. 52:15 is where Paul gets this last laine from. Though it is true it also fits well with, and can be seen as a quote from Mat. 24:14 or Mark 13:10, to say this the on;ly place Paul would get the idea, is wrong. In fact as the passage tells us it came from scripture, We have seen that Paul used this word to indicate the Tanakh.
22 This is also why I have so often been prevented from visiting you.

23 But now, since there is no longer a place in these regions that needs me, and since I have wanted for many years to come to you,
24 I hope to see you as I pass through on my way to Spain, and to have you help me travel there after I have enjoyed your company awhile.
25 But now I am going to Yerushalayim with aid for God's people there.
26 For Macedonia and Achaia thought it would be good to make some contribution to the poor among God's people in Yerushalayim.
27 They were pleased to do it, but the fact is that they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have shared with the Jews in spiritual matters, then the Gentiles clearly have a duty to help the Jews in material matters.

Sadly what is said in the above, is not seen much in today's world. In a time when it is clear that Israel does need to help, and voice of of others, it seems to be little, and only a small voice. The Word as we should all know, has not one teaching that is misplaced. To see that Gentile were happy to help their brothers in HaShem, should set a fire in our hearts to do the same. Though some may think, why help folks that are not followers of Yeshua? The answer is in the question. If we are to help them find a path they have missed, we must help them.
28 So when I have finished this task and made certain that they have received this fruit, I will leave for Spain and visit you on my way there;

29 and I know that when I come to you, it will be with the full measure of the Messiah's blessings.
30 And now I urge you, brothers, by our Lord Yeshua the Messiah and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in my struggle by praying to God on my behalf
31 that I will be rescued from the unbelievers in Y'hudah, and that my service for Yerushalayim will be acceptable to God's people there.
32 Then, if it is God's will, I will come to you with joy and have a time of rest among you.
33 Now may the God of shalom be with you all. Amen.

Looking at 31, one may think why would they not accept a gift? One teaching is that Paul may have speaking of his worship in the Temple, as being his service. This however doesn't seem to fit the context of the passage. Paul was not speaking off the Temple at all, rather of a gift to the poor in Jerusalem. One reason they may not wish to take the gift, is so that they are not seen as destitute, and unable to do for them selves. Even today, many in the world wish to do for them selves, and take no help from others. I my self was like that. Willing to jump up and run to help others, yet never asked for help, even when I know I needed it.

 

[Rainrider]

Romans 16
1 I am introducing to you our sister Phoebe, shammash of the congregation at Cenchrea,

2 so that you may welcome her in the Lord, as God's people should, and give her whatever assistance she may need from you; for she has been a big help to many people - including myself.

Although Phoebe is named once, it is interesting that in many translations she is called a deacon. This has brought out a lot of disagreement in some church's, as they wish to fall back on the Torah, and say a women should hold office in the church. Yet to say a women should be a deacon is wrong, at lest when one looks at it's true meaning. It does in fact mean servant.
Some commentators see what little we are told of her, as showing that she may have been wealthy, and held some degree of influence.
3 Give my greetings to Priscilla and Aquila, my fellow workers for the Messiah Yeshua.

4 They risked their necks to save my life; not only I thank them, but also all the Messianic communities among the Gentiles.
5 And give my greetings to the congregation that meets in their house. Give my greetings to my dear friend Epaenetus, who was the first person in the province of Asia to put his trust in the Messiah.
6 Give my greetings to Miryam, who has worked very hard for you.
7 Greetings to Andronicus and Junia, relatives of mine who were in prison with me. They are well known among the emissaries; also they came to trust in the Messiah before I did.
8 Greetings to Ampliatus, my dear friend in the Lord.
9 Greetings to Urbanus, our fellow worker for the Messiah, and to my dear friend Stachys.
10 Greetings to Appeles, whose trust in the Messiah has been tested and proved. Greet those in the household of Aristobulus.
11 Greet my relative, Herodion.
12 Greet Tryphaena and Tryphosa, women who are working hard for the Lord. Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has done a lot of hard work for the Lord.
13 Greet Rufus, chosen by the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me too.
14 Greet Asyncritus, Phlegon, Hermes, Patrobas, Hermas and the brothers who are with them.
15 Greet Philologus, Julia, Nereus and his sister, and Olympas, and all of God's people who are with them.
16 Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the Messiah's congregations send their greetings to you.
17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put snares alongside the teaching in which you have been trained - keep away from them.

I was once asked why I left the SDA, my answer came from my understanding of this passage. You see, I will never be one to bring division, or discord into any church, topic, or place of learning. So rather than go and hear the lies, I worked for a year to try and get that church to understand the wrong in replacement theology. Not among the congregation, I worked to show the elders, and pastors. Then at some point I felt the need to follow what Yeshua told us, so yes I made it clear that I wouldn't be back, and told them why. With out knowing it, I wiped my feet off on the way out. That my mom told me was uncalled for.
Yet mark 6:11 was all I said to her.
18 For men like these are not serving our Lord the Messiah but their own belly; by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the innocent.

This passage sadly seems to fit so many. In one church, I felt a need to correct the use of their Hebrew. Now when I can find something wrong with how Hebrew is being used, it has to be misused to a degree that shows 0 understanding of it. I mean I know about 250 words, give or take. Yet what I do know the best are the names. So when I hear the story of Yeshua, being told, it shouldn't be Avraham's story.
19 For everyone has heard about your obedience; therefore I rejoice over you. However, I want you to be wise concerning good, but innocent concerning evil.

20 And God, the source of shalom, will soon crush the Adversary under your feet. The grace of our Lord Yeshua be with you.
21 Timothy, my fellow-worker, sends greetings to you; so do Lucius, Jason and Sosipater, my relatives.
22 I, Tertius, the one writing down this letter, greet you in the Lord.
23 My host Gaius, in whose home the whole congregation meets, greets you. Erastus the city treasurer and brother Quartus greet you.
24
25 Now to God, who can strengthen you, according to my Good News, in harmony with the revelation of the secret truth which is the proclamation of Yeshua the Messiah, kept hidden in silence for ages and ages,
26 but manifested now through prophetic writings, in keeping with the command of God the Eternal, and communicated to all the Gentiles to promote in them trust-grounded obedience - to the only wise God, through Yeshua the Messiah, be the glory forever and ever! Amen.

For the most part, I always wish to keep myself out of any study. I felt lead to include this about me past for what reason I really have no clue. At best it seems what I shared, seems to fit with a chapter that needs not help saying what it means. At worst, it may have been placed on my heart as someone reading this, need to hear it. Like Paul, I think most people on here are good people. Like most good folks, we do get a little over reactive, and at times we have something placed in our minds, that we simply can't let go of. This thread has shown that to be true. What I have found to be sad, is how hard other work to discredit others. So much of this book has been speaking to this topic, and Paul used this to show us a better way. Although almost every thing I said, has been from many commentators, they to seen this, and it can be seen in their many books.
Romans has now came to a close, and it is as always my prayer that what has been shared here helps someone.
May HaShem bless you all, and lift you up. Bring blessing to your heart, and giving strength when you need it. May the Holy Spirit, work in us all to bring us to a better and cl rear understanding of His word, that the true love of Yeshua will shine in us all, always.

 

[phil36]

Hi Rainrider,

I've been reading through your posts, However, I have to admit that they seem somewhat lacking. What I mean is what was Paul's view of our union with Christ, how did he use scripture to show this? What was his view on Justification how did he use the OT to show this and prove his point?, what was Paul's view on the relationship of justification and sanctification? and the list goes on? You don't answer any of these and yet you are setting yourself up as an expert on Pauline studies.

Since your are reading Pauline studies could your give me a synopsis on the New perspective, if you have been doing Pauline studies you will certainly be able to describe it and give a good reason to either believe it or refute it?

Also what do you think about Peter recognising Paul's letters as on the same level as the OT therefore scripture NT, is it a problem of cannonization or transmission or is it a problem of circulation? I am sure we all await your dialogue on these important Pauline issues.

 

[MarcR]

Romans 13

1 Everyone is to obey the governing authorities. For there is no authority that is not from God, and the existing authorities have been placed where they are by God.
2 Therefore, whoever resists the authorities is resisting what God has instituted; and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers are no terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you like to be unafraid of the person in authority? Then simply do what is good, and you will win his approval;
4 for he is God's servant, there for your benefit. But if you do what is wrong, be afraid! Because it is not for nothing that he holds the power of the sword; for he is God's servant, there as an avenger to punish wrongdoers.
5 Another reason to obey, besides fear of punishment, is for the sake of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes; for the authorities are God's public officials, constantly attending to these duties.
7 Pay everyone what he is owed: if you owe the tax-collector, pay your taxes; if you owe the revenue-collector, pay revenue; if you owe someone respect, pay him respect; if you owe someone honor, pay him honor.

This passage has been used many times to show that one can't truly follow what the Bible tells us to do. In most resent days, toughs that wish make their point use homosexuality to make it. They say that if we follow this passage to the letter, then we must openly except that same sex marriage is a good thing. After all Obama has passed a law that comes down to just that.
If one reads this, and truly understands that Torah, as well as the NT, then they would know the truth. We are to obey HaShem, and not man. Acts 5:29. After all does not HaShem's Words override that of man?
Yet we should give the respect due to our leaders. We should lift them in prayer, even if we don't agree with them. Just as Paul tells us, the Word teaches us, that HaShem has His reason for placing people in power, when He needs that person there. Before anyone tries to say, we shouldn't vote then. Keep in mind, that a nation is judged by the actions of that nation as a whole. So when the people of a nation sit back and do nothing, as abrasion, same sex marriage, and other sinful acts are forced to be on us, We as a nation, have turned our backs on HaShem, as well as said that we will not follow in faith, what we have been called to follow.
8 Don't owe anyone anything - except to love one another; for whoever loves his fellow human being has fulfilled Torah.

9 For the commandments, "Don't commit adultery," "Don't murder," "Don't steal," "Don't covet," and any others are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Although it is through Love that we find fulfillment of the Torah, acting out side of the Torah, removes us from HaShem, and though we may say we follow Yeshua, and hold fast our faith in Him for salvation, it means nothing at all. You see, no matter what we may say, it is in our actions that we show our faith. In other Words, with out obedience to the Word, we will find that when we come calling Lord Lord, He will reply, I never know you. Mat. 7:23
10 Love does not do harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fullness of Torah.

11 Besides all this, you know at what point of history we stand; so it is high time for you to rouse yourselves from sleep; for the final deliverance is nearer than when we first came to trust.
12 The night is almost over, the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and arm ourselves with the weapons of light.
13 Let us live properly, as people do in the daytime - not partying and getting drunk, not engaging in sexual immorality and other excesses, not quarrelling and being jealous.
14 Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Yeshua the Messiah; and don't waste your time thinking about how to provide for the sinful desires of your old nature.

Although this chapter is also self-explanatory, I feel lead to ask. If the USA is a nation of something like 75% professed Christians, why is there any question of abortion, same sex marriage, gambling, and so on? Should we not stand up, and let the nation know that we will not take part in those actions? Should we not cast our votes in favor of HaShem? Bringing to an abrupt end the notion that we will bow to sin? Should we not stand together, when one of our own faces a law suit that may take everything they have? If every person that said, "I am a believer, and walk in the faith of Yeshua as my redeemer." would give just $5 every time one of our own is forced into a fight over their faith, it wouldn't be long before that came to an end. You see, it isn't that they care if they win the fight, they just want to put believers out of business. That or force them to turn their back on their faith. Think about this when you see what may seem to a fight over the rights of people. It is truly a fight of a spiritual nature. Do we still wish to sit back and do nothing?

Shabbot Shalom

Of the supposed 75% who identity themselves as Christian, 85% don't know what the word means.

 

[MarcR]

Hi Rainrider,

I've been reading through your posts, However, I have to admit that they seem somewhat lacking. What I mean is what was Paul's view of our union with Christ, how did he use scripture to show this? What was his view on Justification how did he use the OT to show this and prove his point?, what was Paul's view on the relationship of justification and sanctification? and the list goes on? You don't answer any of these and yet you are setting yourself up as an expert on Pauline studies.

Since your are reading Pauline studies could your give me a synopsis on the New perspective, if you have been doing Pauline studies you will certainly be able to describe it and give a good reason to either believe it or refute it?

Also what do you think about Peter recognising Paul's letters as on the same level as the OT therefore scripture NT, is it a problem of cannonization or transmission or is it a problem of circulation? I am sure we all await your dialogue on these important Pauline issues.

Phil,

I'm not sure Rainrider is in fact presenting himself as an expert on Pauline studies.

He is certainly not conducting a Seminary level study on Paul. He is a layman speaking to an audience with a wide ranging level of scholarship. I think he is trying to look at Paul's life and attitudes with a minimum of jargon from a Layman's perspective.

 

[phil36]

Phil,

I'm not sure Rainrider is in fact presenting himself as an expert on Pauline studies.

He is certainly not conducting a Seminary level study on Paul. He is a layman speaking to an audience with a wide ranging level of scholarship. I think he is trying to look at Paul's life and attitudes with a minimum of jargon from a Layman's perspective.

So is he teaching or speaking aloud his thoughts? The whole thread started with:

Have you ever wanted to know the man Paul, who he was, what he did, and most of all how he thought? I understand that yes the Word is all we have to work off with him.

Even popular level books go into more detail. Without ''jargon''. What was Paul's thought? And thought of what? There is nothing wrong Christians discussing biblical things..its good.

 

[MarcR]

So is he teaching or speaking aloud his thoughts? The whole thread started with:



Even popular level books go into more detail. Without ''jargon''. What was Paul's thought? And thought of what? There is nothing wrong Christians discussing biblical things..its good.

You are correct There is a great deal more depth to Pauls writings than is being discussed. If you would like to contribute some depth, I will gladly join you.

 

[phil36]

You are correct There is a great deal more depth to Pauls writings than is being discussed. If you would like to contribute some depth, I will gladly join you.

Just out of interest (briefly), what would your view on the New perspective, is N T wrights view on Paul correct or not? Of course yu could bring in Saunders and Dunn.

 

[MarcR]

Just out of interest (briefly), what would your view on the New perspective, is N T wrights view on Paul correct or not? Of course yu could bring in Saunders and Dunn.

Quite honestly I have not read N. T. Wright or Saunders or Dunn. I am quite satisfied with the perspectives of Jamieson, Fausset &Brown, Albert Barnes, Charles Ellicott, B. H. Carroll, and F. B. Hole. For the last 16 years I have been writing a commentary on the Bible; and it limits my time for outside reading.

 

[phil36]

Quite honestly I have not read N. T. Wright or Saunders or Dunn. I am quite satisfied with the perspectives of Jamieson, Fausset &Brown, Albert Barnes, Charles Ellicott, B. H. Carroll, and F. B. Hole. For the last 16 years I have been writing a commentary on the Bible; and it limits my time for outside reading.

I have a Jamison,Fausset and brown whole bible commentary. Good stuff. Although a bit dated now. Are you writing a popular level commentary?

 

[MarcR]

I have a Jamison,Fausset and brown whole bible commentary. Good stuff. Although a bit dated now. Are you writing a popular level commentary?

Yes I'm writing from both a Messianic Jewish perspective and a linguistic perspective. I'm quite competent in Hebrew and considerably less so in Greek. I find that translators almost always ignore the double or multiple takes in the Hebrew text; and frequently ignore proper translation of tense in the Greek. Also translators often choose the most frequent usage over the most appropriate usage of many words.

 

[MarcR]

I have a Jamison,Fausset and brown whole bible commentary. Good stuff. Although a bit dated now. Are you writing a popular level commentary?

Yes I'm writing from both a Messianic Jewish perspective and a linguistic perspective. I'm quite competent in Hebrew and considerably less so in Greek. I find that translators almost always ignore the double or multiple takes in the Hebrew text; and frequently ignore proper translation of tense in the Greek. Also translators often choose the most frequent usage over the most appropriate usage of many words.

If you go to the about me section of my home page there is a link to it.

 

[phil36]

Yes I'm writing from both a Messianic Jewish perspective and a linguistic perspective. I'm quite competent in Hebrew and considerably less so in Greek. I find that translators almost always ignore the double or multiple takes in the Hebrew text; and frequently ignore proper translation of tense in the Greek. Also translators often choose the most frequent usage over the most appropriate usage of many words.

That sounds interesting MarcR. Are you saying that Hebrew scholars who write commentaries have not got it correct and you have? Just interested to know.

What texts would you say have been wrongly mis-handled or that the linguistics have not been taken into account. I don't read Hebrew. Interesting stuff indeed.

 

[MarcR]

That sounds interesting MarcR. Are you saying that Hebrew scholars who write commentaries have not got it correct and you have? Just interested to know.

What texts would you say have been wrongly mis-handled or that the linguistics have not been taken into account. I don't read Hebrew. Interesting stuff indeed.

Are you saying that Hebrew scholars who write commentaries have not got it correct and you have? Just interested to know.

NOT AT ALL!!!!



I have not seen a single commentary by anyone (and I have read many) who expound on the double takes in the Hebrew text.

I have seen many scholars whose work I deeply respect, and whose scholarship far exceeds mine miss or fail to comment on how Hebrew idiom effects the meaning of certain verses in both the Hebrew and the Koine texts.

 

[phil36]

I have not seen a single commentary by anyone (and I have read many) who expound on the double takes in the Hebrew text.

I have seen many scholars whose work I deeply respect, and whose scholarship far exceeds mine miss or fail to comment on how Hebrew idiom effects the meaning of certain verses in both the Hebrew and the Koine texts.

Have you read many 'technical' commentaries, as most commentaries below that don't go into detail of linguistic, nor Idioms (some do explain idioms) for very good reason. Technical commentaries wouldn't worry about going into details as it would be assumed that the reader would have at least some knowledge in the technical.

Anyhow, I'm amazed that you have spotted something which Biblical Scholars through the centuries have not commented on, or missed. All the best with your efforts.