"LGBT RIGHTS"

PennEd · Dec 30, 2014

If 2 homosexuals want to call themselves married what do I care? They can just as easily call themselves duck-billed platypusses and i would care equally less. In either case I WILL NOT recognize them as married, and if I were in a business such as a baker I WOULD NOT cater to their desire for a homosexual themed wedding cake. If the gov. shut me down or imprisoned me, so be it.

People with your views never explain why you believe homosexuals should be allowed to marry but not polygamists, siblings, or from an historical (or Islamic) perspective, pedophiles. YOU want to be the arbiter of morality. I believe we should follow ALL of human history, Scripture, and nature.

So tell us now why 2 brothers, a mother and son, or a grandmother and her granddaughter shouldn't be allowed to marry! After all, who are YOU to say they don't love each other and shouldn't have equal rights!

Human · Dec 30, 2014

PennEd said:

I believe as an American that's your right. What about a wedding cake for an atheist, a Hindu, a Muslim or a Jew? Would you bake any of those?

I believe homosexuals should be allowed to marry because then they can have the same legal rights as straight married couples and because I don't see how someone being homosexual and getting married infringes upon the rights of anybody else. I don't see how being a gay married couple is harmful to anybody else. Polygamy I've never really thought about, but I suppose if a man wanted to have eight wives or a woman wanted to have six husbands, I can see how that might create a situation where young men can't find wives, or social and domestic issues in regards to mate selection. As for siblings; children born from incestuous relationships are biologically more likely to be sick or disabled than to be fully healthy, and that, for me, is unethical. In regards to peadophilia and marriage; a child can't give consent, and so such marriage should be illegal.

I don't want to be the arbiter of morality anymore than you do. After all, you assert your personal religious views (which can't be verifiably tested or quantified in any tangible way) to be the single real morality that all the world should abide by! lol. I, on the other hand, recognize the right of the individual to live by the lifestyle and the moral code they choose, so long as it does not infringe on another human's right to do likewise, which is in fact the making os a self-regulating society where no person's human rights are infringed. I believe gay people should have the right to marry if they so wish, to have sex if they so wish, just like you should have the right to disagree with it.

Again, incestuous relationships are biologically harmful. Incetuous reltionships are also an extreme rarity, and some recent scientific studies show that humans are programmed to find mates outside familial ties, to expand the gene pool. Even if incet were made legal, the vast, vast majority of people wouldn't engage in it.

prodigal · Dec 30, 2014

it might be worthwhile noting who your debating with, are they christian and are they coming from a christian perspective, are they athiest interested in christian points of view, or are they here to represent world view against christian view and if so are they really worth debating with when its obvious their mind is already made up. Yes of course i am bias to the christian view, but thats how a christian site works. Try a moslem site you might find they stick to a moslem view, simple really..

laura_charlotte · Dec 30, 2014

People who are afflicted with homosexual thoughts, need help to turn these ideas from the enemy over to God, for a complete renewal of spirit. I do not feed into and support homosexuality in any sense that i can - i.e: that they should be permitted to adopt or be married. They should not have those rights, what they need to do, is like every person on earth, turn their life over to God.

secularhermit · Dec 30, 2014

Just re-reading... I like this: "A heterosexual has no more value than a homosexual. Their value has nothing to do with sexual preference."

Human · Dec 30, 2014

laura_charlotte said:

Unfortunately, that's what we call unequal legal rights. You don't like gays because they're gay, so they shouldn't be able to marry. Well my imaginary friend down the road doesn't like Christians, and thinks they shouldn't be allowed to marry either. I disagree with him though.

MadParrotWoman · Dec 30, 2014

I don't believe it is right and just to deny any people group their rights as human beings. Having said this I don't agree they should be allowed to call any union involving a same sex relationship a "marriage", it can't be a marriage because marriage was created by God to join together a man and a woman for the purpose of producing children. This is also the reason I don't agree with same sex adoption, all children have a right to a mother and father and this should supersede the rights of any adult.

God gave us all the gift of choice - a choice to live for Him or for ourselves, He never wanted us to be robots programming us to love Him, it was always meant to be a choice. If same sex couples choose to live the way they do then that is their choice but they will have to live with the knowledge that they have rejected God and His teaching. Please though it isn't "marriage" and it doesn't matter what society calls it - it just isn't.

Human · Dec 30, 2014

MadParrotWoman said:

I never had a father. It didn't do me much harm. As for marriage, it existed long before any of the bible was written, and long before Judaism.

Its not Christian marriage, but it's still marriage.

MadParrotWoman · Dec 30, 2014

Human said:

It is a child's right...or at least it should be.

A union between same sex couples is not marriage in the true sense of the world however you may like it to be otherwise and however you may try to argue the bible out of it.

Word_Swordsman · Dec 30, 2014

Percepi said:

I was about to click the "Like" until that last paragraph lit up. Why support any right that isn't listed as a right in the Constitution? We are free to support religion by the 1st Amendment, and no law can forbid it's practice. "Pursuit of happiness" is not in the U.S. Constitution as a right granted by men. The Declaration of Independence includes that phrase as We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

It's easy to determine the original intent of those words. Not one Founder intended that to mean anyone can go do whatever they wish to be "happy", as Creator God is on record as prohibiting certain behaviors. God didn't give a right to practice sexual perversion for the sake of happiness. Wicked people have slowly added such things in to our legal system, and now use that system to attack the very people that worship that very Creator God.

The activists promoting LGBT activities as "rights" through intimidation by lawsuits, parades, protests, and open subjection of the People to their abominable acts are the enemies of Creator God, whether they identify as Christian or not. I can't support their agenda, not believing they have a right to trample over the truly God given rights that enabled Constitutional rights to stand thus far. It makes no sense to covet their support of the Kingdom of God agenda, as they support the destruction of that.

All people are not equal. They might start off birthed equal, but when a citizen commits a serious crime, they can be convicted to lose their freedom and sometimes life. They are no longer equal with anyone except others facing the same discrimination. What was by God's command an abominable sin worthy of stoning to death, LGBT has been condemned by Paul in (for those not knowing this is in there) Romans 1:26-32 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[SUP]32 [/SUP] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

and has never been sanctioned by God since. Until the 70's the U.S. states supported sodomy laws until the Church began going to sleep. But God didn't change His mind about that.

Sex perverts might have some legal standing to do some abominations, but thank God the People have stood tall about pedophilia. In God's opinion no sexual pervert has a right to do such things, and is in a terrible position to curse the land where such things are permitted if blatant GLBT continues to the point of changing our society into one of invasive perverseness. There has been and can happen again judgment of entire nations, and if sinners don't repent, can make shipwreck of whatever "faith" they claim to have. A lifestyle of sin is living in darkness, not spiritual light. 1 John 1:5-7 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
I agree, the Church ought not force that upon sinners, but to love them by preaching the gospel, the truth., warning them of the wrath to come to them. The Church has a God-given and Constitutional right to present those truths inside and outside of the church buildings, both by freedom of speech, and by protection of religion.

secularhermit · Dec 30, 2014

I hope this don´t get the thear derailed from the topic...

Originally Posted by Human

I never had a father. It didn't do me much harm

I didn´t know neither meet my dad´s dad.
That -emotionally- mattered me... Such is life.

Human · Dec 30, 2014

MadParrotWoman said:

I don't care much for traditions. What a child wants is affection security, undestanding, empathy, love, food, water, heat and clothing, and they don't mind so much who gives it to them. You think a child is born giving a damn about homosexuality? The only reason it would ever harm them, ever, is because of all the hateful little nitwits who would make a deal out of them having two guardians of the same sex.

You think an adopted orphan gives a hoot about the fact that they find their needs met by a couple whose sexes are unconvential compared to the typical tradition of man-woman marraige? I doubt it.

MadParrotWoman · Dec 30, 2014

Human said:

Being raised in a house with same sex parents a child will grow up thinking that this is the norm - which is pretty much how society wants it but it isn't how God wants it. Children need a female mother and a male father, anything else isn't balanced. However society dresses it up a man cannot relate to a little girl as a mother can nor a woman to a son. It was created that way for a reason. Society wants to be all accepting, all empowering but you can't make something that isn't.

secularhermit · Dec 30, 2014

"Children need a female mother and a male father, anything else isn't balanced. However society dresses it up a man cannot relate to a little girl as a mother can nor a woman to a son."

Because of this, partly, the RCC is succeding by giving its followers "Mary", as a mother, and their "saints" as their missing family members.

Human · Dec 30, 2014

MadParrotWoman said:

I didn't need a father. I'd have been happy enough with two mothers if they were as wonderful as the one I have.

I don't care much for 'normality' either. It's an insufficient basis on which to create laws. Children don't care about 'normality' or bigotry or discrimination that strong senses of 'normal and 'wierd' tend to lead to, nor the social exlusion those who preach continuously about 'normality' tend to take part in. Kids want few things and their needs are simple. They'll see straight couples and they'll see gay couples and they'll be interested and they'll ask questions, but do you know what they won't do, unless we instill it in them? They won't be bigoted, they won't practice exclusion of gay people or black people or Muslim people; they won't get offended or become ugly about the issue or talk about people being abnormal; they won't naturally promote or endorse prejudice. It's up to us as parents to nurture that interest without judgement in children, not to turn them into horrible little gremlins.

Siberian_Khatru · Dec 30, 2014

Human said:

Did she express somewhere that she doesn't like gays? That would seem to undermine the OP. The sentiment, as I understood it, was that she is opposed to homosexuality as a general practice, not homosexuals as individuals.

Human · Dec 30, 2014

Siberian_Khatru said:

She is so opposed to homosexuality that she said she would vote to make it illegal for them to marry and to have sex, given the chance.

If I was oppose to Christianity and was willing to lobby to make it illegal for Christians to marry or have sex (therefore make it illegal effectively for any Christian to court, to be in love, to express it, or to be recognized as a couple), do you think I would get away with saying I like Christians but dislike Christianity? It's convenient to be able to say, but it's simply not true.

It's blatant, ugly elitism.

Human · Dec 30, 2014

I can dislike the idea of homoseuxality because it's biblically a sin, but that doesn't mean I have to lobby to make homosexual people into second class citizens.

kennethcadwell · Dec 30, 2014

Human said:

You can show love to others and be nice to them, this does not mean you have to support their lifestyle.
And as Christians the bible tells us we can not support the life style that is considered a sin, if we do it says we are just as guilty of that sin. For we would be backing a lie, and covering up a sin making it acceptable.
Saying that though we live in a country that has mass different types of people with different cultures living here, and thus the laws should support everybody that lives here. But should be done in away that they are not enforced on those who do not agree with those rights that get or might get passed into law.

Siberian_Khatru · Dec 30, 2014

Human said:

I agree that it's a fascist attitude to take.

Is that not your stance? I ask as you frequent a Christian forum, expressing opposition to traditional Christian values and being something of a vanguard for Atheism, but I've yet to see any affirmation of your disdain toward any persons here (strictly my impression thus far, to be fair).

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