Lord's Prayer

Omegatime · Nov 5, 2023

Nehemiah6---2 Thess 2 does not have the wrong term. You are confused because you don't understand.

Why do you think out of all Joel's revelation that Peter spoke in Acts 2 that he changed one verse??

The sun will be changed into darkness, and the moon will be changed into blood, before the great and spectacular day of the Lord comes.

the sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day.

he sun shall be changed to darkness and the moon to blood, before the great and gloriously appearing day of [the] Lord come.

the sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.

the sun will turn dark and the moon will turn to blood before the day of the Lord. His coming will be a great and special day.

BeeBlessed · Nov 5, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

The LORD’s wrath is never poured out on His own; He is not angry with us and has proven His gift of eternal life through Christ’s resurrection—His greatest miracle of all! Try reading to the end of Joel 2 to get the whole story. Even the passage in Isaiah you quote refers only to the destruction of sinners. God sees believers as righteous. No one in Christ should fear the events before the Day of the Lord, no matter what happens around us. Therefore, we can confidently pray, “Thy Kingdom come; Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven,” because we are safely in God’s capable hands. As we see the Day approaching, we are busy reminding others of the hope we have.

Joel 2: 28-32

28 “And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.
29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
30 “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth:
Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
32 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.
For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance,
As the Lord has said,
Among the remnant whom the Lord calls.

Nehemiah6 · Nov 5, 2023

BeeBlessed said:

Who said anything about the Lord's wrath being poured out on His own? I specifically pointed out that "the Day of the LORD" (wrath) is NOT the same as "the Day of Christ" (salvation).

So kindly read my post again. Omegatime wanted Christians to welcome the Day of the LORD, which would be extremely bizarre. Christians will not even be on earth at that time to wrath.

BeeBlessed · Nov 5, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

I read your post very carefully. Your last statement above is the reason we disagree.

TheDivineWatermark · Nov 5, 2023

Omegatime said:

Consider:

--"moon into blood" (Joel 2:31 / Acts 2:20 / Rev6:12) takes place at the "6th Seal" (fairly early in the Trib years);

--"moon into blood" is distinct in both appearance and in its timing from that of "moon shall not give her light";

--the one takes place "BEFORE the GREAT" aspect of the Trib yrs (so, in the FIRST HALF); the other takes place AFTER the "GREAT" aspect of the Trib (so, following its END-point / following the SECOND HALF);

--Acts 2:20 uses the word "G2016" - "ἐπιφανής epiphanḗs, ep-if-an-ace'; from G2014; conspicuous, i.e. (figuratively) memorable:—notable." And, yes, will it not be true that that "earthly-located time-period of JUDGMENTS" unfolding upon the earth will indeed be "conspicuous, i.e. (figuratively) memorable:—notable"? Yes, it will indeed.

--in 2Th2:1 (speaking of when WE go UP), Paul says, "we beseech you BY [hyper G5228 - of the impelling or moving cause]" [BY the fact of our Rapture, in other words], not to be deceived by anyone trying to tell you that: the earthly-located time-period of JUDGMENTS unfolding upon the earth "IS PRESENT [/ IS ALREADY HERE--perfect indicative]"--It won't/cannot be "present" as long as "our Rapture" has not yet taken place, see.
This is WHY Paul is saying "we beseech you BY" [BY the fact of "our Rapture" (v.1)];

--in 1Th5:1-3, Paul already made abundantly clear that "the Day of the Lord" ARRIVES "exactly as [hosper]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" (OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that Jesus had spoken of in His Olivet Discourse);
and the "BoBPs" are EQUIVALENT to the SEALS of Rev6--so the INITIAL one of those (Seal #1) comes PRIOR TO the 6th one of those (Seal #6, when the "moon into blood" takes place well after the START of the Trib, but "BEFORE the GREAT" aspect of the Trib [BEFORE the SECOND HALF], just as Joel 2:31 speaks to, and which "time-period" [of JUDGMENTS unfolding upon the earth, over SOME TIME] will indeed be "conspicuous" [etc]- G2016!)

TheDivineWatermark · Nov 5, 2023

^ And allow me to add here, for clarification:

...yes, there will indeed be many people who will be coming to faith in Christ IN / DURING / WITHIN the Tribulation period [DOTL-Trib aspect-"IN THE NIGHT" (Judgments unfolding upon the earth)]... (FOLLOWING "our Rapture")

--"the Day of the Lord" = EARTHLY-located time-period of JUDGMENTS unfolding (over some time);

--"the Day of Christ / our Lord Jesus Christ" = when WE / "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" go UP THERE (to the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR) are "ever be WITH [G4962 - UNIONed-with] the Lord--When the BEMA of Christ will take place; when 1Th3:13 takes place; etc

[they are indeed distinct]

TheDivineWatermark · Nov 5, 2023

TheDivineWatermark said:

TYPO: should read "G4862"

Webers.Home · Nov 5, 2023

.
● Luke 11:1-2 . . He was praying in a certain place, and when he had
finished, one of his disciples said to him: Lord, teach us to pray just as John
taught his disciples. He said to them: When you pray, say: yada, yada,
yada, etc.

When I was a little boy, just about every night at bedtime I recited the
classic lay-me-down-to-sleep children's prayer. In my opinion; a rote prayer
like that one is okay for getting kids started communicating with God.

Jesus' disciples were full-grown men physically. But they were just babies
spiritually. A prayer like the Our Father is a good place for spiritually
immature Christians to begin, but it's not a good place for them to stay.

●1Cor 13:11 . .When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child,
reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things.

Now you take Jesus for example. There is no record of him ever even once
praying the Our Father. In point of fact, when examining Jesus' prayers, it's
readily apparent that he always prayed in a conversational style instead of
rote. A really good example of his style is located at John 17:1-26. Jesus'
style is the style that mature Christians are to follow as their role model.

● Eph 4:15 . .We should grow in every way into him who is the head, Christ

● Heb 4:16 . . So let us confidently approach the throne of grace to receive
mercy and to find grace for timely help.

The Greek word for "confidently" is parrhesia (par-rhay-see'-ah) which
means all out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness, and/or boldness.

Reciting a rote prayer like the Our Father is not what I call forthright, nor
blunt, nor out-spoken, nor bold. No; it's actually quite childish.

When people have been Christians for some time, and still reciting rote
prayers, I'd have to say that their spiritual growth has been stunted, i.e.
they're not developing properly because they haven't been getting adequate
nourishment.

● Eph 4:11-13 . . And he gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others
as evangelists, others as pastors and teachers, to equip the holy ones for
the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to
the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to
the extent of the full stature of Christ,
_

Nehemiah6 · Nov 5, 2023

BeeBlessed said:

Disagree all you want. Obviously you do not know the difference.

TheDivineWatermark · Nov 5, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

FWIW, I think it's perfectly okay to call any followers of Christ (i.e. believers) "Christian"...

... it's just that those who will be coming to faith in Christ (FOLLOWING "our Rapture") when they are IN the Trib years, are not called / a part of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"--that's the difference I see, on this point.

IOW, there will be "believers" IN / DURING / WITHIN the Tribulation Period, who will have come to faith DURING the Trib (they just are not members of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY")... they will be followers of Christ, though (so "Christians" is a legit label that ppl can call them, as I see it).

Blik · Nov 5, 2023

Christ summarized the Amidah Prayer that was established by the Great Assembly of men who returned from Babylon to rebuild the temple. It was composed of 120 men, they were leaders of the Jews who had left Babylon and needed to learn what they had forgotten while in exile.

The Amidah is a prayer that has been used by the Jews to this day, although a clause was added after Christ, because they do not accept him.

When we pray the Lord's prayer, we are joining the Jews with a shorter version of their original payer, but only as Christ gives it to us.

BeeBlessed · Nov 5, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

Thanks for “permission“ to disagree. I do know what you think the difference is.

oyster67 · Nov 5, 2023

Omegatime said:

This prayer is given to all of us and is for today.

Matthew 6

Our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come,------------------- May the Rapture (pre-trib) and all that follows happen soon.
Thy will be done,------- Now, in my heart as well as on earth.
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread----- Today.
12 And forgive us our debts, -------------------------Sins. (As you said.)
As we also have forgiven our debtors-----------Those who have sinned against us. (As you said.)
13 And lead us not into temptation, ------ Steer us away from temptation, teach us to flee from it.
But deliver us from evil---- Sinful self as well as the world and Satan.

Webers.Home · Nov 6, 2023

.

oyster67 said:

You feel that way because as a Christian, you're still in the toddler stage
and have some growing up to do.
_

Blade · Nov 6, 2023

Omegatime said:

First thanks

but who asked Him how to pray? It was Jewish people living under the law. It was never designed for Christians. How many times does He say to those believers that pray this "a I already died for your sins". Yet still asking Him to forgive us? Are you sinning all the time? Verse 13 is not "great tribulation" you added that.

Now search the NT and how they prayed... yeah its much different

Blade · Nov 6, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

Hey Pilgrimshope what up

You are right but all that happened after He died and rose. You said it "who became the Church". So in that prayer who are you or they asking to forgive your sins? There was no lamb already slain for the sin of the world. They would still have to go offer a sacrifice for any sin. They kingdom come? Are we really still asking for that? What is within us? Within us.. are we still asking for daily bread? What did Christ say about Him being the bread of life? Did not Christ tell them to pray using His name? But what always comes to mind is no one in the NT prayed this or told us to pray this. I don't.. He has already delivered me from the evil one

greater is he that is in me then he that's in the world and I have been given all power all authority over the enemy and nothing shall be any means hurt me. John 12:31

oyster67 · Nov 6, 2023

Webers.Home said:

I smell gas.

Nehemiah6 · Nov 8, 2023

Blade said:

That is INCORRECT. The ones who asked Christ to teach them to pray were His chosen disciples (Luke 11:1). Those who had believed on Him and were watching Him pray. No doubt the Lord's Prayer is also repeated in Matthew 6, which means that Christ gave it a broader application.

That is utter rubbish. A careful interpretation of each clause in this prayer will show us that this prayer is in fact A PATTERN for Christians when they pray. This is God's pattern and Christ's pattern.

Many are taught to repeat it verbatim, and there is nothing wrong with that either (if it is from the heart).

Webers.Home · Nov 8, 2023

oyster67 said:

That smell is likely spoiled formula on your bib.

"Everyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with
the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature" (Heb 5:13-14)
_

selahsays · Nov 8, 2023

Blade said:

If I may

And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.

- Luke 11:1 (KJV)

Lord's Prayer

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