Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

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Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
16,659
1,490
113
#41
Last night, in YouTube, I listened to gotquetions.org, on the subject of lordship salvation. The speaker said that only lordship salvation saves. Anything less than that, is "easy believism" - and isn't able to save anyone. I also listened to John MacArthur in Youtube - preaching on the subject. He said Jesus and the apostles preached the need for repentance and the need to accept Jesus as Lord, in order for anyone to get saved. He mentioned a lot of Bible verses giving proof of this. He said many think they're saved, by praying the "sinner's prayer of repentance" - but make no effort to change their lives for the better. He said the word "repentance" means, "changing one's way of thinking - plans to do things differently." Both of these speakers said that belief isn't enough to save anyone. Only if coupled with repentance, does it save anyone. And many verses mentioned - showed repentace as preceding baptism and salvation - that's how the verses were worded! The verses mentioned repentance, before mentioningn all the other.
I've observed, that many evidently - true Christians believe that repentance isn't a necessary part to receiving salvation. I believe some of these Christians are true Christians. Since they appear to be walking in obedience to Christ in their daily lives. But their theology - their way of explaining it to others is incorrect. And so has the potential for misleading other people into "easy believism." With the result of their dying without Christ, often.
I talked to the husband of the home we clean house at yesterday about this, and he said that he has also noticed that many true Christians don't understand the subject the same as we do - who do see the need for repentance. He agreed it is hard for them to change their views on the subject, as they've learned incorrectly on it from habit and through people who taught that way. He said we must be loving towards them, though we can't agree on this subject - which is true, according to the Bible. But we dhould pray that they come to understand correctly on the subject.

The thing is it is like with everything else in life it's about the heart, a repentant heart even if one that falls often will always apologize and repent they will always feel awful about their sin but salvation is not based on that. You mentioned true Christians as opposed to the term Christians but when you mentioned true Christians it was according to how you understood these things

A true Christian as opposed to Christians is very important to understand, many claim to be Christian yet show anything but that of a Christian, many who claim this title are in fact arrogant deceitful and do not know God in their hearts this is why you see so many religious vs faith the wheat and caff the lambs and the goats
There is a difference between a Christian by title and a Christian by heart but as I said the difference is in the heart.
I have wondered about eternal salvation whether one can actually lose their salvation as I myself struggle the most with temptation my sins are always about that I often fear of losing him I struggle greatly with this fear doubt and attacking myself because of it by all accounts I should have lost him long ago sure I feel awful about my sains I try to not do them but have yet to be able to fully succeed all I see in myself is a disgusting sinner lower than the dirt that worms eat yet when I look in my heart all I see is him all I want treasure and seek is him it confuses me why do I only see a sinner with my own eyes but when I look inside all I see is him then it hits me the heart.

I say I believe in salvation but I teach it but do I really uinderstand it? The bible says eterna;l salvation so many times but the word eternal is literally that eternal how can one lose what is eternal if the word literally means everlasting? Then the word salvation to be saved it is by someone else not by your own means or doing it isn't your power of strength it someone else's combine the two words and what do you get?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
3,309
1,027
113
#42
I used to google got questions a lot when I first believed but then found out when I actually asked them a question they didnt have the answer to, they didnt really know how to answer it and where kind of waffly about it.

so I stopped going there and just read the Bible instead.
The people answering Got Questions are not people who have spent a lifetime studying scripture, but there are people on the net who have done that.

You are missing LOTS of helps to understand scripture. There is e-Sword. It has scores of helps, including a wonderful concordance. Difference churches put their answers to questions, answered by more reliable scholars. Every help you find, anywhere, must be checked with scripture.

It is not wise to turn your back on what people say that have spent a lifetime searching scripture. It is just as foolish as taking any person's answer as truth. It is only to point you to productive self search of the word of the Lord, the only truth.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
3,309
1,027
113
#43
The thing is it is like with everything else in life it's about the heart, a repentant heart even if one that falls often will always apologize and repent they will always feel awful about their sin but salvation is not based on that. You mentioned true Christians as opposed to the term Christians but when you mentioned true Christians it was according to how you understood these things

A true Christian as opposed to Christians is very important to understand, many claim to be Christian yet show anything but that of a Christian, many who claim this title are in fact arrogant deceitful and do not know God in their hearts this is why you see so many religious vs faith the wheat and caff the lambs and the goats
There is a difference between a Christian by title and a Christian by heart but as I said the difference is in the heart.
I have wondered about eternal salvation whether one can actually lose their salvation as I myself struggle the most with temptation my sins are always about that I often fear of losing him I struggle greatly with this fear doubt and attacking myself because of it by all accounts I should have lost him long ago sure I feel awful about my sains I try to not do them but have yet to be able to fully succeed all I see in myself is a disgusting sinner lower than the dirt that worms eat yet when I look in my heart all I see is him all I want treasure and seek is him it confuses me why do I only see a sinner with my own eyes but when I look inside all I see is him then it hits me the heart.

I say I believe in salvation but I teach it but do I really uinderstand it? The bible says eterna;l salvation so many times but the word eternal is literally that eternal how can one lose what is eternal if the word literally means everlasting? Then the word salvation to be saved it is by someone else not by your own means or doing it isn't your power of strength it someone else's combine the two words and what do you get?
But Blain, it is best that we don't even try to spot the true Christian. That is the job of the Lord.

Paul tells us in Romans 14:1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters.

As you point out so well, it is knowing God in our hearts. And that knowing is all about love for God and others. To love others is to accept them.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,638
5,618
113
#44
The people answering Got Questions are not people who have spent a lifetime studying scripture...
This is PATENTLY FALSE since you know nothing about the inner workings of God Questions.

Furthermore you are sitting in judgment over others, when you yourself have a very shaky foundation, hopping back and forth between the Old and New Covenant. Even though this is off-topic, a word to the wise should be sufficient.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
3,309
1,027
113
#46
This is PATENTLY FALSE since you know nothing about the inner workings of God Questions.

Furthermore you are sitting in judgment over others, when you yourself have a very shaky foundation, hopping back and forth between the Old and New Covenant. Even though this is off-topic, a word to the wise should be sufficient.
So it is false? So people with no credentials can be listened to in the same way as people who give their background? And I am judging others! Are you then, not judging me? Futhermore and blah blah blah.

How about stating your opinion without accusing of falsehood. And can you back up your attack of my "back and forth about the new covenant"? Wow! And this is a Christian site!!

Evidently you have decided to be my enemy because we evidently disagree about a doctrine. That is not a Christian way to act, if we are to play the blaming game.

I do my best to keep strictly and absolutely to scripture truth, do you? I have made errors, and when I did Christians on this site told me so backed up by scripture. It was done as a kindness to me and I appreciated it. I see no kindness in you.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
3,713
1,051
113
#47
I am with you sister, Scripture proves scripture, and should be our only source of counsel, along with the revelation of the Holy Spirit.
I agree that we can and need to do intense Scripture study ourselves, along with "the revelation of the Holy Spirit". We must remember, though, that the same Holy Spirit also lives in other believers and speaks to them. And so we can learn from the Spirit through other believers.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,274
2,806
113
#48
I trust in the Word of God and read it directly..

I do not place my salvation into the hands of preachers.. Allowing them to lead me where ever they are heading.. Jesus is my Messiah not macarthur or anyone else..
 
Oct 16, 2020
58
22
8
#49
Why not just believe the Holy Bible as written? It is flawless and tells us everything we need to know. Holy Spirit is in those of us who are saved and we do not need a teacher, and as God promised: Holy Spirit leads us to ALL truth. Just drop the names and titles of stuff and believe the Word of God as written. Contention is foolish. God knows the truth, He promised to teach us so let him. God bless you all.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
32,191
10,289
113
#50
So it is false? So people with no credentials can be listened to in the same way as people who give their background?
Why do you say they have no credentials? The link I provided shows otherwise...

Not that credentials in and of themselves prove anything ;)

Any who, as with any extra-Biblical resource, discretion is advised :)
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
4,787
710
113
#51
I agree that we can and need to do intense Scripture study ourselves, along with "the revelation of the Holy Spirit". We must remember, though, that the same Holy Spirit also lives in other believers and speaks to them. And so we can learn from the Spirit through other believers.
I love to discuss the scriptures, but we must be careful to weigh their views in harmony with all of the scriptures. The bold Berians took what they had heard preached, and compared it to the word to see if it harmonized. Some people seem to ignore some scriptures unless they fit their theology.
 
Oct 16, 2020
58
22
8
#52
Why do you say they have no credentials? The link I provided shows otherwise...

Not that credentials in and of themselves prove anything ;)

Any who, as with any extra-Biblical resource, discretion is advised :)
I avoid people with credentials. Much flesh quenches Holy Spirit. (Most if not all) People with credentials are following people and programs and get grades and degrees from a curriculum not from God. I want the raw truth of those who follow Jesus.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
4,787
710
113
#53
Why do you say they have no credentials? The link I provided shows otherwise...

Not that credentials in and of themselves prove anything ;)

Any who, as with any extra-Biblical resource, discretion is advised :)
Yes, we must ask ourselves; What credentials did the Apostles have? Paul counted all of his credentials as dung, that he may win Christ. I believe that preachers of the gospel are called by God to preach, and most of the preachers that preach the doctrine of Christ have very little formal instruction in the scriptures, other than by the revelation of the Holy Spirit.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
32,191
10,289
113
#54
Yes, we must ask ourselves; What credentials did the Apostles have? Paul counted all of his credentials as dung, that he may win Christ. I believe that preachers of the gospel are called by God to preach, and most of the preachers that preach the doctrine of Christ have very little formal instruction in the scriptures, other than by the revelation of the Holy Spirit.
We would have to know how many to begin with, and how many of those have "very little formal instruction," before we could say with any accuracy "most." I was under the impression that many pastors have some seminary training, but of course, that is just an assumption on my part :) And besides that, some of those with little or much schooling have been taught and adhere to error, so... as I said, credentials in and of themselves mean nothing. Even after three years of walking and talking with Jesus, the disciples of Christ were largely unenlightened, and following the resurrection, Peter required correction from Paul :)
 

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
Sep 5, 2014
686
272
63
#55
The thing is it is like with everything else in life it's about the heart, a repentant heart even if one that falls often will always apologize and repent they will always feel awful about their sin but salvation is not based on that. You mentioned true Christians as opposed to the term Christians but when you mentioned true Christians it was according to how you understood these things

A true Christian as opposed to Christians is very important to understand, many claim to be Christian yet show anything but that of a Christian, many who claim this title are in fact arrogant deceitful and do not know God in their hearts this is why you see so many religious vs faith the wheat and caff the lambs and the goats
There is a difference between a Christian by title and a Christian by heart but as I said the difference is in the heart.
I have wondered about eternal salvation whether one can actually lose their salvation as I myself struggle the most with temptation my sins are always about that I often fear of losing him I struggle greatly with this fear doubt and attacking myself because of it by all accounts I should have lost him long ago sure I feel awful about my sains I try to not do them but have yet to be able to fully succeed all I see in myself is a disgusting sinner lower than the dirt that worms eat yet when I look in my heart all I see is him all I want treasure and seek is him it confuses me why do I only see a sinner with my own eyes but when I look inside all I see is him then it hits me the heart.

I say I believe in salvation but I teach it but do I really uinderstand it? The bible says eterna;l salvation so many times but the word eternal is literally that eternal how can one lose what is eternal if the word literally means everlasting? Then the word salvation to be saved it is by someone else not by your own means or doing it isn't your power of strength it someone else's combine the two words and what do you get?
1603031076978.png
 

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
Sep 5, 2014
686
272
63
#56
I have been accused of thinking "lordship salvation" What does it mean?
The term isn't used in the Bible. But it refers to the fact that one must accept Jesus as both Lord (boss) and Savior, in order to receive the gift of salvation. And receiving Him as such, according to what I see in the Bible on the subject - is always preceded by true repentance.

Rom 10:9

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
KJV

Matt 10:37-38

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
KJV
 

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
Sep 5, 2014
686
272
63
#57
The term 'lordship salvation" means different things to different people. I say just go by what the Bible says. Scripture is very clear on the importance of both repentance and believing. Jesus is both Lord and Saviour, and no one's belief or theology will change that. He desires to be the Lord and Saviour of all of us.
Yes, for some reason, some Christians don't understand that aspect of the need for repentance - no doubt because they haven't been under that kind of teaching much. So I don't agree with their way of explaining the gospel, entirely. But if there's evidence that they do have a heart for obeying God in daily life, and are sincere about that - I believe they are saved.
 

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
Sep 5, 2014
686
272
63
#59
What is your definition/understanding of repentance?
It is primarily, a change of mind - a desire to be pleasing to God and to be obedient to Him. And it will be followed by action, if this change of mind has been sincere in the part of those who choose to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of their life. Here's online etymology for the word, "repentance."

repent (v.)
c. 1300, "to feel such regret for sins or crimes as produces amendment of life," from Old French repentir (11c.), from re-, here probably an intensive prefix (see re-), + Vulgar Latin *penitire "to regret," from Latin poenitire "make sorry," from poena (see penal).
 

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
Sep 5, 2014
686
272
63
#60
It is primarily, a change of mind - a desire to be pleasing to God and to be obedient to Him. And it will be followed by action, if this change of mind has been sincere in the part of those who choose to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of their life. Here's online etymology for the word, "repentance."

repent (v.)
c. 1300, "to feel such regret for sins or crimes as produces amendment of life," from Old French repentir (11c.), from re-, here probably an intensive prefix (see re-), + Vulgar Latin *penitire "to regret," from Latin poenitire "make sorry," from poena (see penal).

2 Cor 7:10

10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death
KJV