Loss of salvation???

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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,453
208
63
God doesn’t establish these doctrines so clearly so we can explain why they aren’t correct or necassary . But so we can learn and believe and partake of the promises within them . I’m wondering these days the benefit of me being here going in the same circles of the basics of Christianity seems counterproductive
You are 100% correct in this last statement of yours. Because you are to get set free to simply love in mercy and truth to everyone
Matthew 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
I see, you not at rest and are afraid to let go of your wanting to do to do it .

Hebrews 4:9-13 calls us to rest in the done work of God for us. Yet man flesh will not rest, will bele3ive and then not believe. Testing for you to get rest for you

We are on this earth, that does not please God, and we as people need to rest, do we not? And religion does not rest. It has to work over choosing to work in God's done work for them by Son to them. They got to go out and say, hey watch my smoke, your first chosen couldn't do it, but watch me, I can really?
Okay I need God to lead as what happened on that day of Pentecost, you think?

And I am by no means claiming I got it together, God does for me to work that through me, thanks I am at rest in trust to the done work of God, as I see you want this too. God will reveal this to you. You'll decide, just as Peter had to learn new and let go of old also
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,453
208
63
There is no differences, the interpretation is the difference, the truth is only revealed from God in the Holy Spirit given us freely, not of any work otherwise one has reason to boast. Any flesh self in the way, is on a dead end ride under Law that will not end well. ( Rom 7:10) Been there, done that for years, thinking I got it. And see now only God has got it and man interprets, yet, does man interpret correctly?
Lets see
God through Moses gave his first chosen the Ten Laws. They said okay, yeah, we will do it. Did they? to some extent yes, but not perfectly ever did they?
God pissed off over their own thoughts and evil's thoughts implied on them their minds also. Ps 82:1-7
Then Jesus the one and only Son to ever do what is right perfect for ever for us in his done work of tat cross, taking on all sin for us all to his Father to approve of. Father approved, Son is risen, leaving us the people to believe, trust God and by God get set free from under Law to holding up Law as good
And then one is set free and does not do anymore work of their own (Hebrews 4:9-13) tells me so. as well as many other scriptures also
Like Hebrews 10 about the final sacrifice for the new covenant and the new Law Hebrews 7:11-12
Hebrews 9:14-17 turn to God in belief to God, it is done for you to be given the new

God by Son fulfilled the Law for us the kids to be in with him and Son, Amazing isn't it? Matt, 5:17, John 19:30
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,453
208
63
God is the one to reveal truth over error as God did the tin Paul who was Saul, and wrote all about this grace to us all in it is done for us and the new life is in the risen Son for us to be given it
Thanks as each person knows, and is set free or not yet, But God doe not quit as we the people do that
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
840
134
43
Death is not being "unborn". I would say "nice try", but it really wasn't. "
'Born' by implication infers beginning of life, or existence. 'Un' a prefix meaning “not.

Hence, unborn and dead are the same state of non-existence.

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, ...." Eccl 9:5

If you know 'you' will die, then you are unborn, or dead. Marvel not you must be born again.

A very ignorant comment.
Here is your arrow back.
 
May 11, 2024
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Continued from above post

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


This is obviously speaking about people that were saved for they had escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ which only a saved person would do that.



If they go back to a sinful lifestyle it would of been better if they had not known the truth than to turn away from it.



This is reversible if they repent and allow the Spirit to lead them acting Christlike for all sins can be forgiven.



1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.



There are millions of people that claim Christianity that hold on to sin, and many that believe they cannot fall will enjoy sin for they will think they are alright despite their sin.



Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.


Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


It is obvious this is speaking of people that were saved for they were enlightened, and made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and tasted the good word of God which only a saved person would do that.



Which it is saying if they fall away they cannot be renewed unto repentance, for they will put Christ to an open shame.



This is not speaking of sinning that they can repent of for that is not falling away.



But it is speaking of a person that was saved leaving the truth that Jesus is Lord and Saviour for an alternate reality like being an atheist, or another religion, or belief.



1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


This is an example here which it is talking about the new age movement that interprets the Bible according to the occult and evolution, and people are evolving to be spiritual, and Jesus is not Lord and Saviour but he became an ascended master, and there is no personal God, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher and above Jesus.



It says some people will depart from the faith the truth of the Bible and follow their interpretation.



2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


This falling away is not the Church for the gates of hell cannot prevail against the Church.



And hypocrites do not cause the Church to fall away for they do not change the truth, or void it out.



And Jesus said the hypocrites do not belong to Him which they will not get caught up to heaven.



The falling away is the condition of the world in response to the Gospel that they stopped the preaching of the Gospel, and the belief in a personal God all nations governments in agreement to it.



Which when the New Age Christ starts working in the world he will push the agenda of the new age movement which he will think to change times and laws.



Which will be the time that people will not want to hear the truth of the Bible but according to their own lusts, and be turned on to fables.



Which some shall depart from the faith and follow their interpretation of the Bible believing a different reality.



There is no reversal for this for they cannot be saved again for God will not allow them to go through the process of being saved again.



But although I wrote all this with scriptures to back it up some people will still believe in OSAS that God chose in the beginning and they cannot fall.



Even though the Bible says God wants all people to be saved.



And people can be saved and lose salvation if they depart from goodness, or believe in an alternate reality, which some shall depart from the faith and believe an alternate realty.



But they are ever learning, and ever able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Thank you soooooo much. In Jesus name!
 
Oct 24, 2012
15,453
208
63
Death does not undo what occurred in birth.
As far as I know, no one has been able to go back in time and undo the act of being born.
God did not come to give life to the first born flesh. All are dead in the first Adam. The second birth is needed. Therefore God sent Son to save our Souls
If, anyone is going to be afraid
Best, to see to be afraid of God who is the one and only one that can destroy both body and Soul. Evil can only destroy the body, cannot touch the Soul. The Soul is first born of flesh as dead, in need of new life not be given them yet from God Father of in risen Son Jesus for them.

Came to save our Souls
Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
 
Aug 22, 2014
2,772
852
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'Born' by implication infers beginning of life, or existence. 'Un' a prefix meaning “not.

Hence, unborn and dead are the same state of non-existence.

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, ...." Eccl 9:5

If you know 'you' will die, then you are unborn, or dead. Marvel not you must be born again.



Here is your arrow back.
No they are not, LOL so you just double down on an ignorant statement to try to look like it was more thought out than it was?

Being "unborn" would mean you reenter your mother and father after you're separated back into a sperm and egg, so living a whole life and then dying is NOT the same thing at all. I would say "nice try", but then I'd be a liar. I'm not sure what you believe but from a Christian worldview the state we are in before we are born and after we die are VERY different states. But if you're a Godless Pagan then your statement here make sense. Are you a Godless Pagan?
 
Jul 28, 2017
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the state we are in before we are born and after we die are VERY different states
Non-existence.

This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. John 6:50

then dying is NOT the same thing at all.
Said the dead.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,400
667
113
Continued from above post

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


This is obviously speaking about people that were saved for they had escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ which only a saved person would do that.



If they go back to a sinful lifestyle it would of been better if they had not known the truth than to turn away from it.



This is reversible if they repent and allow the Spirit to lead them acting Christlike for all sins can be forgiven.



1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.



There are millions of people that claim Christianity that hold on to sin, and many that believe they cannot fall will enjoy sin for they will think they are alright despite their sin.



Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.


Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


It is obvious this is speaking of people that were saved for they were enlightened, and made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and tasted the good word of God which only a saved person would do that.



Which it is saying if they fall away they cannot be renewed unto repentance, for they will put Christ to an open shame.



This is not speaking of sinning that they can repent of for that is not falling away.



But it is speaking of a person that was saved leaving the truth that Jesus is Lord and Saviour for an alternate reality like being an atheist, or another religion, or belief.



1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


This is an example here which it is talking about the new age movement that interprets the Bible according to the occult and evolution, and people are evolving to be spiritual, and Jesus is not Lord and Saviour but he became an ascended master, and there is no personal God, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher and above Jesus.



It says some people will depart from the faith the truth of the Bible and follow their interpretation.



2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


This falling away is not the Church for the gates of hell cannot prevail against the Church.



And hypocrites do not cause the Church to fall away for they do not change the truth, or void it out.



And Jesus said the hypocrites do not belong to Him which they will not get caught up to heaven.



The falling away is the condition of the world in response to the Gospel that they stopped the preaching of the Gospel, and the belief in a personal God all nations governments in agreement to it.



Which when the New Age Christ starts working in the world he will push the agenda of the new age movement which he will think to change times and laws.



Which will be the time that people will not want to hear the truth of the Bible but according to their own lusts, and be turned on to fables.



Which some shall depart from the faith and follow their interpretation of the Bible believing a different reality.



There is no reversal for this for they cannot be saved again for God will not allow them to go through the process of being saved again.



But although I wrote all this with scriptures to back it up some people will still believe in OSAS that God chose in the beginning and they cannot fall.



Even though the Bible says God wants all people to be saved.



And people can be saved and lose salvation if they depart from goodness, or believe in an alternate reality, which some shall depart from the faith and believe an alternate realty.



But they are ever learning, and ever able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Did the Prodigal son ever ever stop being the son of Father?
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
628
89
28
NO, NO, NO!!! never happened, will not happen now & never will happen!!! it is impossible to be saved & then lose your salvation. if someone thinks you can lose salvation, YOU WERE NEVER SAVED IN THE 1ST PLACE. look at the expression; "born again". AGAIN! that means you were born once, (physically), & now reborn again, spiritually! study John 3:5 & Romans 12:2! when born again, you will want to think, speak & act like Jesus, PERMANENTLY!!!!!!!! yes, you can backslide for a myriad of reasons but your new reformation or regeneration of spirit, soul, conscious & mind will tell you, "stop doing that"! & you will obey your mind's thoughts on correction.
Of course you can lose your salvation its called apostasy.

There is nothing you can gain that cannot be lost or rejected.

The servant in Matthew 18:21-35 "lost" his forgiveness. It was not that he was never really forgiven, he most certainly was.

This parable was recorded to stop such foolishness.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
628
89
28
Did the Prodigal son ever ever stop being the son of Father?
Until he returned to the Father he was most certainly a lost and dead son.
Luke 15:32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

Eccl: 9:4 4 Anyone who is among the living has hope —even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!
While the son was dead he was lost and without hope.

A lost and dead son loses his inheritance.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
2,056
873
113
Of course you can lose your salvation its called apostasy.

There is nothing you can gain that cannot be lost or rejected.

The servant in Matthew 18:21-35 "lost" his forgiveness. It was not that he was never really forgiven, he most certainly was.

This parable was recorded to stop such foolishness.
did you read the verses i mentioned? if you are a born again Christian, how ever will you know if you are saved. you may turn into an apostate. how will you know if you are going to turn into an apostate? what's the sense in becoming born again if you never know your saved? study & learn those verses i mentioned & hopefully you'll get it. blessings to you always.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,400
667
113
Until he returned to the Father he was most certainly a lost and dead son.
Luke 15:32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

Eccl: 9:4 4 Anyone who is among the living has hope —even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!
While the son was dead he was lost and without hope.

A lost and dead son loses his inheritance.
Is that your final answer?
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,400
667
113
Until he returned to the Father he was most certainly a lost and dead son.
Luke 15:32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

Eccl: 9:4 4 Anyone who is among the living has hope —even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!
While the son was dead he was lost and without hope.

A lost and dead son loses his inheritance.
Figuratively for lost, perished, given up as dead, e.g., the prodigal son (Lk 15:24,32). Equal to apolōlṓs from apóllumi (622), to perish, lose.

Also, wouldn’t that dispute the Hebrews verses many like to quote. They say that once lost that they can never return.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
628
89
28
The "Podical Son" is a son like his brother; he never left his father's house but had a bad heart.
"a bad heart"???

You read the story of the prodigal son and you come away with he had a "bad heart"?

The Father called the son dead and lost not with a bad heart?

The Father never described the prodigal son like his older brother.

What part of the verbiage in the story did you get "a bad heart"?

I suspect you simply want the scriptures to say this.