Loss of salvation???
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Oh please, they were human the same as we are. They learned the same way we did. You had no concept of right or wrong either when you were born. The difference is that we have an inner wrongness Adam, Eve and Christ never had to deal with. Until the Fall, Adam and Eve could only experience evil from an outside source. They didn't need to understand evil for if they had obeyed the word of God, they would have been in a position to learn good from evil. Failing at the first encounter of evil was not the way to go.
You would have two thirds of the angels still ignorant based on your understanding.
Is was about rejecting the truth. God could have said "don't pick your nose" and Adam would still have fallen if he disobeyed the command. Eating was symptomatic of a deeper problem, rejecting truth and believing the lie. Adam wanted to eat the fruit and Eve gave him the excuse he needed to justify his own evil desire and take the fruit and eat.
As far as your theory about it only applying to Adam? Guess you forgot.
Genesis 2:24
That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
What applied to Adam applied to Eve.
You would have two thirds of the angels still ignorant based on your understanding.
Is was about rejecting the truth. God could have said "don't pick your nose" and Adam would still have fallen if he disobeyed the command. Eating was symptomatic of a deeper problem, rejecting truth and believing the lie. Adam wanted to eat the fruit and Eve gave him the excuse he needed to justify his own evil desire and take the fruit and eat.
As far as your theory about it only applying to Adam? Guess you forgot.
Genesis 2:24
That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
What applied to Adam applied to Eve.
Yes, it’s all about not trusting and believing God; instead she believed Satan’s lies. There is an Old Testament story that illustrates this, too. I King 13. Each time, Satan said the very opposite of what God said. God said “You will die.” Satan said, “You will NOT die.” If God says “yes”, Satan will say, “no”. That is STILL going on today. And people are still taking Satan’s words over God’s. In the garden Satan worked through a serpent; in 1 Kings 13, he worked through a prophet; he worked through Peter in Matthew 16:23. Today, Satan is still working through men—preachers, and lay men. The Bible warns many times about false teachers, false doctrines , and commandments of men. 1John 4:1 says, Do not believe every spirit but TEST” the spirits whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” What are these false prophets teaching? They are being led by Satan and preaching HIS message; you can be sure it is a false teacher if what they teach contradicts what God says in the Bible. They do not wear horns and a forked tail; many times they may wear ecclesiastical robes. Jesus called them “sheep” in wolves clothing. Matthew 7:15-16. They may look BEAUTIFUL! Jesus said Satan could turn himself into an ANGEL of light! 2 Cor. 11:13-14. Jesus says the way we can know them is by their “fruits”. That is by what they teach. But to do that, we HAVE TO KNOw WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. Otherwise, we will think they are telling the truth. Did Satan lie to Eve in the garden? Yes, He did. And Satan’s helpers today will lie to us the same way. So God says in 1 Thess. 5:21 to PROVE (test) ALL THINGS. The only way we can “test” or prove anything is by the Bible.
On a site such as this, you can read comments from many different people, expressing, many different beliefs, and many, many OPINIONS. Please do not take a man’s word for anything. Insist on “proof” from God word for what you believe. Otherwise, how are we different from Eve?
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We have to remember that this is figurative language. Paul is not talking about the “Olympics”. He’s just talking about a “race.” As a figure of speech representing our “Christian life””. For us, as Christian’s, it’s for a “crown”. We know, because of Revelation 3:10 says “IF” we are FAITHFUL. He will give us the crown of life. We don’t need to read too much into this. It’s simple really. James 1:12 says when we have “BEEN APPROVED”, we will receive the crown of life. The scriptures are very plain that receiving that “crown” is CONDITIONAL on our being FAITHFUL to God until we die (Rev. 3:10) and being approved by God. Paul is saying it is possible, if we dont discipline ourselves, we can be “disqualified” and Lose that crown. Paul says we are to RUN IN SUCH A WAY so that we can obtain it. (Verse 24) This harmonizes with 2 Tim. 2:5 which says “Anyone who competes in athletics is NOT crowned unless he competes according to the “RULES.” So it MATTERS how we live our life; it MATTERS to God whether or not we keep His commandments; TWO of His rules for this race is that we be faithful to Him all of our life; the other one us that we must abide by His rules. That means that a person will not get a crown if he sins against God and is in- repentant. That would not be playing by His rules. Then, after we have finished this “race”, we must be approved by God. It makes no sense, nor is it LOGICAL for God to make these “conditions” if it is impossible for us to lose our crown! Paul says that even he can lose his crown. Even though he has preached to others— he can be disqualified! Even Paul MUST run the race according to the “rules”.
EVERYTHING in scripture teaches that we can lose our salvation; Jesus teaches it in His parables, like the parable of the sower. And that is the whole point of the parable of the prodigal son. It’s the picture of a person who leaves his “father” who is really FATHER GOD. The boy WASTED his inheritance (heaven), he threw it away! But when he repented, his father (God) took him back with open arms. There are so many scriptures, so much evidence that God has given us. I hope you will consider this with an honest heart.
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Did you mean Revelation 2:10? If Revelation 2:10 teaches that we must be "faithful enough" (in addition) to placing our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9) then just "how faithful" would you have to be? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "faithful enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is vague and could include any number of good works, which results in "works righteousness." The same applies to James 1:12. Only genuine believers are faithful.
I see Revelation 2:10 as an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. I don't see Jesus telling these Christians that if they are not "faithful enough" (in addition) to having faith in Him for salvation that they will not receive eternal life. That is "salvation by works!" I do see Jesus telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there! In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY (genuine) BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9). Unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are unfaithful unto death.
When I was a teenager, I temporarily attended the church of Christ with my friend and his aunt. Years later, after I received Christ through faith and was now a born-again Christian, I ran into my friend's aunt and while discussing church with her, she asked me if I had "remained faithful." Her idea of remaining faithful revolved around whether or not I still attended the church of Christ and held to all of their beliefs. When I told her that I no longer attend that church, but attend a different church now, a Baptist church, she acted very uncomfortable and implied that I have not been faithful and will not be saved.
The Bible mentions 5 different crowns that believers may receive. Do they all simply represent eternal life according to you? In Revelation 19:12, Jesus is described as having eyes that were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. What do those many crowns represent according to you?
In context, Paul asks the question. What is the prize before Paul? Is it that reward of which he spoke in verse 1 Corinthians 9:18, his glorying of preaching a free gospel? There are those who take Paul to be referring to the possibility of his rejection in his personal salvation at the end of the race. The problem that I see with that interpretation is there is a difference between a prize and a gift.
A prize is something that you work for and earn where a gift is something that you freely accept without merit. Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. Yet salvation is a free gift that we freely accept. (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8). 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 mentions - If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, (of reward) though he himself will be saved. Paul said disqualified for the prize. Not disqualified for the free gift of eternal life.
So according to you, eternal life is received (or maintained) based on the merits of keeping His commandments and remaining sin free? Have you successfully kept ALL of God's commandments and remained sin free? Also, how do you define "keep"? Your arguments support performance-based works salvation and not salvation by grace through faith, not works.
I'm yet to find the specific words "lose salvation" in scripture and I have found that ALL false religions and cults that promote salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS and teach that you can lose your salvation which has always been a major red flag for me.
In regard to the parable of the sower ONLY the 4th soil was referred to as good ground which represents those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Unlike the seed that fell by the wayside, on shallow, rocky ground and thorny ground which had no root, produced no fruit, was choked out and withered away. Faith without works is dead.
CONTEXT - All three parables in Luke 15 were in rebuke to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them." (vs. 2) People in the NOSAS camp will try to use the parable of the prodigal son to prove that believers can lose their salvation by arguing that the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive again (regained his salvation) from Luke 15:32 based on certain translations which read: ..thy brother was dead, and is alive AGAIN (KJV) ..for your brother was dead and is alive AGAIN (NKJV) ..this brother of yours was dead and is alive AGAIN (NIV)
Yet others will argue that in this parable, being made "alive AGAIN" foreshadows the "born AGAIN" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course, Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually again and again. We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually. I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live and was lost and has been found (NAS).
Prior to my conversion several years ago while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I believed in works salvation and losing salvation, and I had absolutely no assurance of salvation and was miserable! I have considered this with an honest heart. After my conversion everything changed. Now there are plenty of scriptures that "on the surface" appear to teach a loss of salvation (just like there are plenty of scriptures that "on the surface" appear to teach salvation by works) but is that what those passages of scripture really teach? After reading those scriptures in context, and properly harmonizing scripture with scripture, we see that scripture paints a different picture than works salvation (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..) and losing salvation. (Psalm 37:28; John 6:39; 10:27-29; Romans 8:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; Philippians 1:6; Jude 1:1 etc..).
If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer? The answer to this question will demonstrate exactly what you are trusting in for salvation/what you have placed your faith in for salvation. My answer would be "because you died for my sins according to the scriptures, was buried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures to provide for me eternal life. I trust in you alone as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation.
I see Revelation 2:10 as an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. I don't see Jesus telling these Christians that if they are not "faithful enough" (in addition) to having faith in Him for salvation that they will not receive eternal life. That is "salvation by works!" I do see Jesus telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there! In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY (genuine) BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9). Unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are unfaithful unto death.
When I was a teenager, I temporarily attended the church of Christ with my friend and his aunt. Years later, after I received Christ through faith and was now a born-again Christian, I ran into my friend's aunt and while discussing church with her, she asked me if I had "remained faithful." Her idea of remaining faithful revolved around whether or not I still attended the church of Christ and held to all of their beliefs. When I told her that I no longer attend that church, but attend a different church now, a Baptist church, she acted very uncomfortable and implied that I have not been faithful and will not be saved.
The Bible mentions 5 different crowns that believers may receive. Do they all simply represent eternal life according to you? In Revelation 19:12, Jesus is described as having eyes that were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. What do those many crowns represent according to you?
In context, Paul asks the question. What is the prize before Paul? Is it that reward of which he spoke in verse 1 Corinthians 9:18, his glorying of preaching a free gospel? There are those who take Paul to be referring to the possibility of his rejection in his personal salvation at the end of the race. The problem that I see with that interpretation is there is a difference between a prize and a gift.
A prize is something that you work for and earn where a gift is something that you freely accept without merit. Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. Yet salvation is a free gift that we freely accept. (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8). 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 mentions - If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, (of reward) though he himself will be saved. Paul said disqualified for the prize. Not disqualified for the free gift of eternal life.
So according to you, eternal life is received (or maintained) based on the merits of keeping His commandments and remaining sin free? Have you successfully kept ALL of God's commandments and remained sin free? Also, how do you define "keep"? Your arguments support performance-based works salvation and not salvation by grace through faith, not works.
I'm yet to find the specific words "lose salvation" in scripture and I have found that ALL false religions and cults that promote salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS and teach that you can lose your salvation which has always been a major red flag for me.
In regard to the parable of the sower ONLY the 4th soil was referred to as good ground which represents those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Unlike the seed that fell by the wayside, on shallow, rocky ground and thorny ground which had no root, produced no fruit, was choked out and withered away. Faith without works is dead.
CONTEXT - All three parables in Luke 15 were in rebuke to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them." (vs. 2) People in the NOSAS camp will try to use the parable of the prodigal son to prove that believers can lose their salvation by arguing that the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive again (regained his salvation) from Luke 15:32 based on certain translations which read: ..thy brother was dead, and is alive AGAIN (KJV) ..for your brother was dead and is alive AGAIN (NKJV) ..this brother of yours was dead and is alive AGAIN (NIV)
Yet others will argue that in this parable, being made "alive AGAIN" foreshadows the "born AGAIN" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course, Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually again and again. We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually. I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live and was lost and has been found (NAS).
Prior to my conversion several years ago while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I believed in works salvation and losing salvation, and I had absolutely no assurance of salvation and was miserable! I have considered this with an honest heart. After my conversion everything changed. Now there are plenty of scriptures that "on the surface" appear to teach a loss of salvation (just like there are plenty of scriptures that "on the surface" appear to teach salvation by works) but is that what those passages of scripture really teach? After reading those scriptures in context, and properly harmonizing scripture with scripture, we see that scripture paints a different picture than works salvation (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..) and losing salvation. (Psalm 37:28; John 6:39; 10:27-29; Romans 8:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; Philippians 1:6; Jude 1:1 etc..).
If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer? The answer to this question will demonstrate exactly what you are trusting in for salvation/what you have placed your faith in for salvation. My answer would be "because you died for my sins according to the scriptures, was buried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures to provide for me eternal life. I trust in you alone as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation.
Agree! We have the example of Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8 as an example —both of loosing his salvation and what to do to regain it. Peter told him to repent and pray for forgiveness. If that’s what Simon had to do—that’s what we must do. Also.
Jesus illustrates this principle in the parable of the sower, where some people who accepted the “seed” grew for awhile but eventually died ( for various reasons) AND in the parable of the Prodigal son who LEFT his “father” (God) and threw away his inheritance (heaven) but eventually repented and CAME BACK. The picture is of God welcoming us BACK with open arms.
Jesus illustrates this principle in the parable of the sower, where some people who accepted the “seed” grew for awhile but eventually died ( for various reasons) AND in the parable of the Prodigal son who LEFT his “father” (God) and threw away his inheritance (heaven) but eventually repented and CAME BACK. The picture is of God welcoming us BACK with open arms.
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“people are still taking Satan’s words over God’”
“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
2 Peter 2:1-2
“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
2 Timothy 4:1-4
“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
2 Peter 2:1-2
“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
2 Timothy 4:1-4
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Indeed when they partook of the forbidden knowledge of good and evil thier eyes were opened ….to good and evil to lust and sin ant not believing Gods word for the truth …..
we ( Adam ) did what he said would certainly destroy and bring death
“male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.”
Genesis 5:2 KJV
God sees eve even before she’s actually created as part of Adam who is one.
“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; and the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: ( notice adam didn’t give Eve life nor did pro creation but rather God created eve from and of what he had created in adam )
she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. ( after this all men even Jesus are taken from woman’s flesh and bones but only when a man and woman are one flesh dies this happen )
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.”
Genesis 2:7, 18, 21-
We can see Adam ( man and woman ) lose tbier rightful god given place in Eden with God because they weren’t supposed to operate knowing and determining what good and evil is but rather to just operate off from what the lord thier creator and blesser says to them as they abide with him in paradise learnkng and growing in o my holiness and righteousness , rather than bieng filled with good and evil , before ever being taught and learning righteousness from the lord listening first to him and learning about all things
it is because they were never meant ot intended to by Gods Will and design operate in our minds by that forbidden knowledge but by only trusting the lord being made in Gods image rather than being “ gods” wheras we seek to rule and govern having the knowledge of “gods “ and not men designed to only operate by what the Lord tells us
“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: ( we aren’t made to have that same knowledge but to live by his judgements he speaks to us ) and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
Genesis 3:22, 24 KJV
now man shall surely die having no access to the tre of life to live forever
God foreknew this would happen is the reason it was forbidden and why he reacted that way Eden would become this otherwise
“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”
Genesis 6:5 KJV
God lamented mans actions following Satan because he created us for life and love and peace and faithfulness and for family but we became enemies who lie and cheer and steal and kill and commit terribke acts of violence and betrayal…
Adam and Eve lost our rightful place with God but Jesus came to redeem and restore us and our inheritance with God
“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”
Revelation 2:7 KJV
the beginning
“And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.”
Genesis 2:8-9
“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.”
Revelation 22:14 KJV
we ( Adam ) did what he said would certainly destroy and bring death
“male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.”
Genesis 5:2 KJV
God sees eve even before she’s actually created as part of Adam who is one.
“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; and the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: ( notice adam didn’t give Eve life nor did pro creation but rather God created eve from and of what he had created in adam )
she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. ( after this all men even Jesus are taken from woman’s flesh and bones but only when a man and woman are one flesh dies this happen )
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.”
Genesis 2:7, 18, 21-
We can see Adam ( man and woman ) lose tbier rightful god given place in Eden with God because they weren’t supposed to operate knowing and determining what good and evil is but rather to just operate off from what the lord thier creator and blesser says to them as they abide with him in paradise learnkng and growing in o my holiness and righteousness , rather than bieng filled with good and evil , before ever being taught and learning righteousness from the lord listening first to him and learning about all things
it is because they were never meant ot intended to by Gods Will and design operate in our minds by that forbidden knowledge but by only trusting the lord being made in Gods image rather than being “ gods” wheras we seek to rule and govern having the knowledge of “gods “ and not men designed to only operate by what the Lord tells us
“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: ( we aren’t made to have that same knowledge but to live by his judgements he speaks to us ) and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
Genesis 3:22, 24 KJV
now man shall surely die having no access to the tre of life to live forever
God foreknew this would happen is the reason it was forbidden and why he reacted that way Eden would become this otherwise
“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”
Genesis 6:5 KJV
God lamented mans actions following Satan because he created us for life and love and peace and faithfulness and for family but we became enemies who lie and cheer and steal and kill and commit terribke acts of violence and betrayal…
Adam and Eve lost our rightful place with God but Jesus came to redeem and restore us and our inheritance with God
“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”
Revelation 2:7 KJV
the beginning
“And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.”
Genesis 2:8-9
“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.”
Revelation 22:14 KJV
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'Descriptive' of the unrighteous, just as we see in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and in verse 11, Paul draws a contrast between the unrighteous and the righteous. "And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."
Also notice in Galatians 5:19-21 that those who practice such things (sins) will not not inherit the kingdom of God. Compare that with 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin..
*Hermeneutics*
Also notice in Galatians 5:19-21 that those who practice such things (sins) will not not inherit the kingdom of God. Compare that with 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin..
*Hermeneutics*
this has nothing to do with what God said to the company of angels witnessing the events in Genesis 3.
it's not a "theory" that God spoke of Adam. it's the scripture.
note that the verb "become" is singular case. not speaking of both of them.
note that YHVH says "ha-Adam" - - that is Adam's name. "adam" without the "ha-" means mankind, but the text specifically says the particular man, named Adam.
again it is singular case, not referring to the man and the woman, or referring to mankind in general - the grammar is inescapable and incontrovertible.
figure out why.
it's not a "theory" that God spoke of Adam. it's the scripture.
note that the verb "become" is singular case. not speaking of both of them.
note that YHVH says "ha-Adam" - - that is Adam's name. "adam" without the "ha-" means mankind, but the text specifically says the particular man, named Adam.
again it is singular case, not referring to the man and the woman, or referring to mankind in general - the grammar is inescapable and incontrovertible.
figure out why.
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God kept the way to the tree of life.
He saves.
God clothed Adam and Eve, shedding blood to make garments for them by His own hand. He took away what they had made with their own hands, it being insufficient, and gave them the work of His own hand.
He saves.
and God prevented Adam and Eve from being able to eat of the tree of life until Messiah should come, because if they did they would be eternally in their state of sin.
God saves.
God preached to them the gospel, atoned for their sin, covered them, made the way to eternal life secure, and made it impossible for them to be eternally damned.
He saves, to the uttermost.
the doctrine of eternal security is right here in Genesis 3
He saves.
God clothed Adam and Eve, shedding blood to make garments for them by His own hand. He took away what they had made with their own hands, it being insufficient, and gave them the work of His own hand.
He saves.
and God prevented Adam and Eve from being able to eat of the tree of life until Messiah should come, because if they did they would be eternally in their state of sin.
God saves.
God preached to them the gospel, atoned for their sin, covered them, made the way to eternal life secure, and made it impossible for them to be eternally damned.
He saves, to the uttermost.
the doctrine of eternal security is right here in Genesis 3
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That is both insane, and completely unbiblical.
Furthermore, I strongly suspect that Adam, like God, could not be successfully tempted by Satan (Gen 1:26). And I also suspect that Satan tried many times to deceive Adam and failed every time. So Satan regrouped and launched his plan of attack upon the woman. Whom he did deceive ****TEMPORARILY****! Only to have the Woman CONFESS HER SIN of unbelief at the subsequent trial AND RECEIVE FORGIVENESS AND AQUITTAL.
Adam in effect DEFEATED Satan in a roundabout way (ultimately by the work of the Last Adam yet to come).......in my humble opinion. A fact that God knew in advance of course.
And all of these intrigues and dramas......are part of God's plan of salvation made before the foundation of the world. In my humble opinion.
1Ti 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Gen 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
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You are DEVASTATINGLY wrong about Genesis chapter 3.
I urge you to hear the truth of the matter. It will only take perhaps 10 or 20 hours of your time.
Adam And Eve... What really happened?
1st Adam vs. The 2nd Adam. They're more alike than you might think
Adam, Eve & Satan. Do you really think you know this story?
Deep Teaching On Adam & Eve. This is the stuff you're not supposed to hear
Did Adam Blame Eve? It's not what you may have thought
Eve Is Dying Right In Front of Adam. If you were Adam, what would you do?
Satan, Why Did You Pick A Snake? Would Adam have been fooled by a snake?
Why A Tree Of Death? What caused the Tree of Death to be put in the garden of Eden?
Genesis 2 and 3... NOT Seeker Sensitive! That's why most churches don't teach this
Furthermore, I strongly suspect that Adam, like God, could not be successfully tempted by Satan (Gen 1:26). And I also suspect that Satan tried many times to deceive Adam and failed every time. So Satan regrouped and launched his plan of attack upon the woman. Whom he did deceive ****TEMPORARILY****! Only to have the Woman CONFESS HER SIN of unbelief at the subsequent trial AND RECEIVE FORGIVENESS AND AQUITTAL.
Adam in effect DEFEATED Satan in a roundabout way (ultimately by the work of the Last Adam yet to come).......in my humble opinion. A fact that God knew in advance of course.
And all of these intrigues and dramas......are part of God's plan of salvation made before the foundation of the world. In my humble opinion.
1Ti 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Gen 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
===================================================================================
You are DEVASTATINGLY wrong about Genesis chapter 3.
I urge you to hear the truth of the matter. It will only take perhaps 10 or 20 hours of your time.
Adam And Eve... What really happened?
1st Adam vs. The 2nd Adam. They're more alike than you might think
Adam, Eve & Satan. Do you really think you know this story?
Deep Teaching On Adam & Eve. This is the stuff you're not supposed to hear
Did Adam Blame Eve? It's not what you may have thought
Eve Is Dying Right In Front of Adam. If you were Adam, what would you do?
Satan, Why Did You Pick A Snake? Would Adam have been fooled by a snake?
Why A Tree Of Death? What caused the Tree of Death to be put in the garden of Eden?
Genesis 2 and 3... NOT Seeker Sensitive! That's why most churches don't teach this
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Genez said:
Adam believed that when he ate the fruit that he would become like the Lord..
Did he not?
@cv5 said:
No, he definitely DID NOT believe that.
On the contrary, Adam sweat great drops of blood in the garden agonizing over his deliberate (NOT DECEIVED per 1 Tim 2:14) FREE WILL choice to be SEPARATED (aka ***die***) from his God in a calculated gambit to SAVE his bride the Woman.
Which of course is why Adam is a type of Christ.
Get the picture?
Adam believed that when he ate the fruit that he would become like the Lord..
Did he not?
@cv5 said:
No, he definitely DID NOT believe that.
On the contrary, Adam sweat great drops of blood in the garden agonizing over his deliberate (NOT DECEIVED per 1 Tim 2:14) FREE WILL choice to be SEPARATED (aka ***die***) from his God in a calculated gambit to SAVE his bride the Woman.
Which of course is why Adam is a type of Christ.
Get the picture?
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@sawdust
To continue.....
https://christianchat.com/threads/d...en-in-the-book-of-life-or.214168/post-5323463
"The issue is actually SEPARATION.
By God's definition, death is SEPARATION from Him. Eternal death = eternal separation.
G2920
κρίσις
krisis
Thayer Definition:
1) a separating, sundering, separation
Adam did not keel over when he ate the fruit. But he did willingly decide to DIE aka SEPARATE from his God to save the woman.
The first Adam in the first garden sweat great drops of blood (in effect) agonizing over his FREE WILL decision to DIE (give up his life of sweet loving harmony and perfect fellowship with his God, becoming a sinner) to take responsibility of the sin of his bride to save his bride.
The last Adam in the olive garden sweat great drops of blood agonizing over his FREE WILL decision to DIE (give up his life of sweet loving harmony and perfect fellowship with his God, becoming sin for us) to take responsibility of the sin of His Bride to save His Bride."
To continue.....
https://christianchat.com/threads/d...en-in-the-book-of-life-or.214168/post-5323463
"The issue is actually SEPARATION.
By God's definition, death is SEPARATION from Him. Eternal death = eternal separation.
G2920
κρίσις
krisis
Thayer Definition:
1) a separating, sundering, separation
Adam did not keel over when he ate the fruit. But he did willingly decide to DIE aka SEPARATE from his God to save the woman.
The first Adam in the first garden sweat great drops of blood (in effect) agonizing over his FREE WILL decision to DIE (give up his life of sweet loving harmony and perfect fellowship with his God, becoming a sinner) to take responsibility of the sin of his bride to save his bride.
The last Adam in the olive garden sweat great drops of blood agonizing over his FREE WILL decision to DIE (give up his life of sweet loving harmony and perfect fellowship with his God, becoming sin for us) to take responsibility of the sin of His Bride to save His Bride."
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