Lost in the details

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Dec 19, 2009
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#1
It seems to me sometimes Christians get lost in the details. Jesus told us that the entire law was the result of two commandments, that we love the Lord with all our heart, soul, and mind, and that we love the Lord as ourselves. I would think we would all be okay as long as we obey these two commandments. What do you think?
 
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lightbliss

Guest
#2
Obtaining from sin too, but I guess if someone truly loved Jesus, that (along with everything else) wouldn't be so difficult.
 
Apr 25, 2010
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#3
Jesus said that the commandments were summed up in these two, but you're right in that we can be too dogmatic in their application. You cannot talk to a Seventh Day Adventist for too long before the subject comes up about Sunday Worship comes up. The commandments say to keep the Sabbath, therefore one is to worship on Saturday like the Jews, they say.

This argument was brought up in the early church, but did not prevail. The Church began to realize the authority in which they were commissioned by Christ to be the new vessel of revelation and truth. It was established that the Jews were no longer the oracle of God having rejected the truth as expressed in the advent of Christ. For this reason, Christians said they will worship on Sunday in contravention to the Sabbath, for the Lord rose on that day and it was that Resurrection that was celebrated every Sunday. These people thought that Jesus invested His authority in a Church, not in a book. What were they thinking?
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#4
Obtaining from sin too, but I guess if someone truly loved Jesus, that (along with everything else) wouldn't be so difficult.
It occurs to me that obeying the Lord’s commandments isn’t necessarily easy. However, it is helpful., perhaps, if we understand what the Lord expects of us.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#5
Jesus said that the commandments were summed up in these two, but you're right in that we can be too dogmatic in their application. You cannot talk to a Seventh Day Adventist for too long before the subject comes up about Sunday Worship comes up. The commandments say to keep the Sabbath, therefore one is to worship on Saturday like the Jews, they say.

This argument was brought up in the early church, but did not prevail. The Church began to realize the authority in which they were commissioned by Christ to be the new vessel of revelation and truth. It was established that the Jews were no longer the oracle of God having rejected the truth as expressed in the advent of Christ. For this reason, Christians said they will worship on Sunday in contravention to the Sabbath, for the Lord rose on that day and it was that Resurrection that was celebrated every Sunday. These people thought that Jesus invested His authority in a Church, not in a book. What were they thinking?
The Lord rested on the seventh day, and we need a day off each week, too, wouldn’t you say?
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#7
Absolutely! As the Sabbath was set apart to honor God in our rest, so is Resurrection day. Nothing has changed except the day of the week.
[27] And he said to them, "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath;
[28] so the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath." Mark 2:27-28 RSV
 
Feb 9, 2010
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#8
Those are the 2 greatest commandments,love God and love people.

All the law and prophets hang on these 2 commandments.

The reason that the law hangs on those 2 commandments is because love does not sin.

The Bible says that love does not think an evil thought,and love rejoices in the truth,which is goodness,and not in unrighteousness.

Jesus said if you do not obey His commandents you do not love Him.To love Jesus is to obey His commandments,which means you love Jesus.
How can you say you love Jesus and not want to act like Him,which is to represent goodness,for if you do not represent goodness then you do not love the way Jesus is which is goodness.

The Bible says herein is how we know we love God is if we obey His commandments which is to abstain from sin,which means you love God.

The Bible says that love works no ill towards their neighbor;therefore love is the fulfilling of the law,which means you love people.

Tp truly love God and love people means you have to abstain from all sin for sin is either something that is against God or is against people.

If we truly obey the 2 greatest commandments to love God and love people,then we have to abstain from all sin.

That means that we have to obey the 10 commanments or any other moral laws of God.

I say this for some people think they can live in sin and still make it to heaven,but to truly obey the 2 greatest commandments you have to abstain from all sin.

Love does not think an evil thought and rejoices in the truth and not unrighteousness.

Love obey all of Jesus' commandments.

Love obeys all of God's commandments.

Love does no evil towards their neighbor.

To truly obey the 2 greatest commandments of love God and love people you have to abstian from all sin.

The Bible says that a Spirit led life will not sin.

God said if you are born of Him you cannot sin.That is how we know the children of the devil and the children of God.
He who does unrighteousness is not of God but of the devil.He who does righteousness is of God.

There is no excuse for a Spirit led life will not sin,and that is the reason God gave us the Spirit so that we can life sinless like Jesus and receive eternal life.

There is no excuse.

I have seen many people and there are millions of people that do not live like they are supposed to live and if they do not repent will fall short of receiving eternal life.

They are the people that Jesus said not everyone that says to Me,Lord,Lord,will make it to heaven,but only those that do the will of My Father which is to abstain from sin which is true love.

Jesus will say to those people depart from Me for I never knew from where you are,in their wrongful lifestyle and not in the lifestyle that God wants them to be in.

Matt
 
M

machew

Guest
#9
It seems to me sometimes Christians get lost in the details. Jesus told us that the entire law was the result of two commandments, that we love the Lord with all our heart, soul, and mind, and that we love the Lord as ourselves. I would think we would all be okay as long as we obey these two commandments. What do you think?

Absolutely. If you are doing these two, then you are inherently doing all of the rest of what God commands. Jesus said all of the law and the prophets hang on these two.

Blessings,

Machew
 
May 21, 2009
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#10
I think every single word in the bible is important and is for us today. But it is very clear that if we aren't love we don't know God at all.
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
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#11
I see alot of confusion in the world right now. We are constantly bonbarded with all the things we should be, what we should be doing, what is right, what is wrong, alot of debate over every small detail.
With all of this in every aspect of our lives it is spilling over into our walks in Jesus. We seem apply the same thinking in our walk in Jesus with out ralizing it. How often do we get into debates over the smallest detail here and call upon each other over every small detail.
As I said we are caught in a worldly way of thinking.
Jesus wants us to set aside this way of thinking and look to Him in how we live and think, He wants us to rest in his love. He wants us to know in faith that he will not let any take us from his hand.
Yes the great comandment is what He asks us to live by. But more importantly, he wants each of us to know that He is the way, the truth, the light.
He provides all we need to do and follow the will of God Our Father.
He loves each of us so very much. He will make sure you stay close to him.
Let Jesus take care of the details.
God bless, pickles
 
S

Servantofiam

Guest
#12
Those are the 2 greatest commandments,love God and love people.

All the law and prophets hang on these 2 commandments.

The reason that the law hangs on those 2 commandments is because love does not sin.

The Bible says that love does not think an evil thought,and love rejoices in the truth,which is goodness,and not in unrighteousness.

Jesus said if you do not obey His commandents you do not love Him.To love Jesus is to obey His commandments,which means you love Jesus.
How can you say you love Jesus and not want to act like Him,which is to represent goodness,for if you do not represent goodness then you do not love the way Jesus is which is goodness.

The Bible says herein is how we know we love God is if we obey His commandments which is to abstain from sin,which means you love God.

The Bible says that love works no ill towards their neighbor;therefore love is the fulfilling of the law,which means you love people.

Tp truly love God and love people means you have to abstain from all sin for sin is either something that is against God or is against people.

If we truly obey the 2 greatest commandments to love God and love people,then we have to abstain from all sin.

That means that we have to obey the 10 commanments or any other moral laws of God.

I say this for some people think they can live in sin and still make it to heaven,but to truly obey the 2 greatest commandments you have to abstain from all sin.

Love does not think an evil thought and rejoices in the truth and not unrighteousness.

Love obey all of Jesus' commandments.

Love obeys all of God's commandments.

Love does no evil towards their neighbor.

To truly obey the 2 greatest commandments of love God and love people you have to abstian from all sin.

The Bible says that a Spirit led life will not sin.

God said if you are born of Him you cannot sin.That is how we know the children of the devil and the children of God.
He who does unrighteousness is not of God but of the devil.He who does righteousness is of God.

There is no excuse for a Spirit led life will not sin,and that is the reason God gave us the Spirit so that we can life sinless like Jesus and receive eternal life.

There is no excuse.

I have seen many people and there are millions of people that do not live like they are supposed to live and if they do not repent will fall short of receiving eternal life.

They are the people that Jesus said not everyone that says to Me,Lord,Lord,will make it to heaven,but only those that do the will of My Father which is to abstain from sin which is true love.

Jesus will say to those people depart from Me for I never knew from where you are,in their wrongful lifestyle and not in the lifestyle that God wants them to be in.

Matt
greatest response ever. Glad to read it and hear it, too many people taking shortcuts without realizing what short cuts really mean.
 
M

Musilany

Guest
#13
I totaly agree with Machew...
the Bible says that the greatest commandment is to love the Lord, because if you trully love Him you are gonna want to live a life that shows that, which is not living like the world but in everything trying to please Him and bring Him glory.
 
Apr 30, 2010
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#14
one could argue who said what to who.. Too many readers who claim to be christian continue to claim that every line in the bible is meant for people today in 2010, They forget who was writing to who, and the context, and in particular what group of people were there and the point of the message..beit to teach a certain group at 'that time and place' or whether the author was having a go at certain ones in that group over others in that group. etc etc etc..there are many variants.

Having said all that.

Who was Jesus talking to at any time he gave any commandments.

Remembering Jesus came to fullfill (finalize) the old laws that kept people from god. The laws of old are done away with and the whole point of jesus is to believe this and believe through faith like as to Abraham. Problem with churches today they say they are christian yet keep the laws of the jews.

Another thing to remember is that christ came to form a new group, (the new man or...chrisitans) however in that new group, there are 2 subgroups. Jewish christians and Gentile Christans) and this fact is shrugged under the carpet by most who are learning the bible.

Usually when one talks of Christians people just think of an overall group and dont really think about it..but in the apostles days there were definately distinctions between those jews who came to god and those gentiles who came to god and while they all agreed to follow jesus, doesn't mean they had the same rules for want of better word.

first thing to work out is if your a gentile christian or a jewish christian (while all are definately christians in the whole) it depends on what is said to who what counts to who.

Paul is a great expample..he told many jewish christians not to bother too much the gentile christians in certain affairs. showing without doubt that there were/are differences depending.

My questions are these...
Did Jesus give commandments to gentile christians?

If All christians (Jewish or Gentile) have to follow the commandments Jesus gave, does that really have anything to do with loss of salvation?
Because nobody ever passed a 'law/commandment' test barring Jesus. So if it is essential to keep jesus laws for salvation, nobody will ever be saved. and those who claim they can keep even those 2 mentioned commandments are lying to even suggest they can or could).

Bottom line is the grace of god saves any 'true believer'' (and that is the important part) by FAITH.. (not blind faith either).. but only Faith can save, no law or commandment can.

Would Jesus come to take the burdon of laws away as he did.. just to lay more burden that couldn't be done.

People don't fool yourselves thinking you can always keep commandments.. its never been done and never will be.

Besides what about the Beatitudes in Matthew. What do people say they are ..they sound like commandments don't they? And again..Who was jesus talking to then.. Defininately not gentiles.

something to think about without really giving my answer :)
 
S

Servantofiam

Guest
#15
How can we who have been saved from sin live any longer in sin?

1Jo 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, a and the wicked one does not touch him.

1Jo 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
38 This is the great and first commandment.
39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40 On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets

If you have the Holy Spirit He will create in you a new heart, allowing you to turn from sin. But without the Holy Spirit no one can turn from sin. The work of the Holy Spirit is vital, faith without works is dead.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as He is righteous.
8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

Let the bible speak for itself
 
Apr 30, 2010
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#16
lots of numbers there.. what books are they from?

Basically what you are claiming is.. you do not sin now????

That is all I'm getting out of the post above. Seems your claiming that you believe that you 1.Are already saved? and 2. because of this, it is impossible for you to sin now??

I have heard this once before in all the time I have discussed bible with people. the only other time I have heard someone say this, was from a jehovah's witness I once knew. although to be fair, even her other JW friends did not agree with her on that.

Interesting thought though.. but totally unbiblical of course.
 
H

Harley_Angel

Guest
#18
It's just like the Pharisees. They knew everything there was to know about the law, but they didn't understand that the underlying principle is love. Should we take a day of rest? YES! Should that mean that we sit on a couch and barely move just to keep from doing something that resembles work? NO! If your friend calls you on your Sabbath day, crying, needing your help and your love, should you hang up the phone and tell them no, because God wants you to rest and that means you can't work a car, or walk, or do anything to get to them? Absolutely not. But, it also means loving yourself enough to know when you need a break. You need to be able to say, "No, I'm sorry I can't cover your shift today so you can watch the football game, I need to rest and worship today."

If you love people, you don't lie to them, you don't steal from them, murder them, cheat them, be bitter towards them, hold a grudge, seek revenge, try to spite them, gossip about them, etc. God wrote His law in our minds and hearts. We know what it means to be a good person without having to have someone write it down for us. Even a baby knows how to love, and a toddler knows what is mean and what is nice. Loving fulfills all of God's requirements for us! Simply being a good, honest, caring person is all it takes (and believing, of course, but believing leads to loving, so it's all the same to me)
 
Apr 30, 2010
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#20
Love is all to do with it, once one knows who the real god is, then love is all that matters..but anyone and everyone loves..but not all come to god as most don't realise who the true god is. It doesn't matter how much you love if you don't know the true god.

Not sure of the mentions to laws though, can't have it both ways though..either they are essential for salvation or they arn't.. If they are ..you have to do them ALL. If they arn't then all of them are against salavation. most churches today preach laws..yet choose very carefully which ones they think they can do. Very sneaky and totally off track.

As for Sabbath, it was never meant for man, and it doesn't fit any new commandment whatsoever. Jesus and the apostles worked on the sabbath, it like most laws made by god were only to teach the stubborn jews that they couldnt get to god by those laws, yet even non jewish churches today still try and pump them as something to be obeyed.. Strange how the bible goes against this teaching.

Every day should be as a sabbath (as meant by god).. to worship him. and there is nothing wrong with going playing sports on the sabbath or watching tv or anything. laws died with jesus on the cross.. thank god for that. Those who want to go by one law are judged by every single one of them.. which means they cannot find salvation at all.,.because its impossible to obey every law. those who live in the law die in it.