mark of the beast

[Studyman]

=Ahwatukee;3467225]Not sure what your point is with all that you posted above, but my post was in response to your "666, No 7. No Sabbath."

The mark of the beast has nothing to do with the Sabbath, nor is the keeping of the Sabbath a requirement for salvation.

That is a central tenant of the Catholic teaching to be sure. Rejection of God's Righteousness and the creation of their own. It's in their mind and in their works, "hand and forehead". You preach the Sabbath is nothing, useless, a burden, just like they do. I think the Sabbath has everything to do with the mark of the beast. But I believe Jesus when He said He created it for man. The Catholic church doesn't believe this, you don't believe this and neither does the beast, we know because it's number is 6, no 7. No Sabbath.

That greatest religious body (Roman Catholicism) is the woman who rides the beast! She is a counterfeit church that is hiding right out in plain site and will most likely be the catalyst for that one world religious system that is coming, as she fits all of the characteristics of Mystery, Babylon.

I see no significant difference between the Catholic Church and any of her daughters. They are all the same church. They all promote man made religious traditions and doctrines which cause those who follow them to "Transgress God's Commandments". They all preach against God's Sabbaths and many other of His Words.

Rom. 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

 

[Studyman]

No Rest day or Night...

How clever.

You saw that!! Goose bump materiel to be sure.

Matt. 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Fascinating stuff, good for you MG.

 

[Ahwatukee]

No Rest day or Night...

How clever.

Clever? More like distortion of scripture.

 

[Ahwatukee]

That is a central tenant of the Catholic teaching to be sure. Rejection of God's Righteousness and the creation of their own. It's in their mind and in their works, "hand and forehead". You preach the Sabbath is nothing, useless, a burden, just like they do. I think the Sabbath has everything to do with the mark of the beast. But I believe Jesus when He said He created it for man. The Catholic church doesn't believe this, you don't believe this and neither does the beast, we know because it's number is 6, no 7. No Sabbath.

Like I said, if keeping the Sabbath was a requirement for salvation, it would be posted all over the NT and you find in the letters to the seven churches. But as I pointed out, the word "Sabbath" does not even appear in the book of Revelation, nor is it ever stated in the NT that the keeping of the Sabbath is a requirement for salvation. But I'll tell you that, if you make the Sabbath a requirement for salvation, then you are not trusting that the Lord accomplished salvation for you. You're saying that His finished word is not good and that you have to add to it by keeping the Sabbath.

"One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.[/quote]

To be clear, anyone can observe any day or every day as special to the Lord, but it becomes a problem when it is taught as a requirement for salvation, because then one is not trusting in the Lord's finished work. Whoever depends on the Sabbath as a requirement for salvation, will not enter into the kingdom of God, because you're trusting in your own efforts instead of Christ met the righteous requirement of the law, paid the penalty for sins and experience God's wrath on behalf of every believer. Anything that a person brings along side of the Lord's sacrifice as a requirement for salvation, is truly not trusting in the Lord.

God's commandments that are spoken in your example is not referring to the law given to Moses, but His commandments are the following:

"Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

So, the commands of God are to believe in His Son and to love one another. The commands that he is speaking about are not the ten commands and the rest of the 600 laws. Those who are in Christ have died to the law. The believer has been set free from power of the law. It is the law which gives sin its power and sin leads to death, not because their is anything wrong with the law, but because of our sinful natures.

Rom. 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

They judgment that he is speaking of is passing judgment i.e. sentencing, condemning, which I agree we should not do, but we are to make righteous judgments based on the word of God. People continually misinterpret the meaning of this word. Regarding judgment, what do you think about the following:

"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you. If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! - 1 Cor.5:12-13, 6:1-2

So, yes we are to judge rightly, but only if we don't have a board in our eye and we not passing condemning judgment on anyone, for we should never do that at any time. And that the scripture that you posted is speaking about.

 

[Gabriel2020]

I don't see why a Christian that believe in God would not want to honor him above all other things on the Sabbath. The world don't care, so they do what they want. It is us Christians that must keep the Sabbath holy as God has commanded.

 

[iamsoandso]

I don't see why a Christian that believe in God would not want to honor him above all other things on the Sabbath. The world don't care, so they do what they want. It is us Christians that must keep the Sabbath holy as God has commanded.

In ad70 the Jews who revolted and were in the siege at Jerusalem did they honor the Sabbath or the Lords day?
If not then they did not receive the mark as you see it.

 

[Joseppi]

Hey Joseppi,



Satan and his angels being thrown out of heaven and restricted to the earth as revealed in Rev.12, is a result of the 7th trumpet/3rd woe. This event is has not yet taken place and that because the first seal has not even been opened, which initiates God's wrath.

Trumpets 5, 6 and 7 are referred to as "woes" and take place in order. That said, before the 7th trumpet takes place, the 5th trumpet/1st woe must take place which is when that angel releases those demonic beings from the Abyss, who are given commanded to torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months with stings like that of a scorpion. Have we seen any of these demonic being flying around?

After that is the 6th trumpet where those four fallen angels are released from the area of the Euphrates River who gather a demonic army of 200 million and kill a third of mankind. Have we seen those demonic horses killing a third of mankind with fire, smoke and sulfur.

Therefore, since we have yet to see the literal fulfillment of these events, then neither could the 7th trumpet have taken place. Currently, Satan and His angels have access to heaven and accuse believers before God night and day. When that 7th trumpet sounds, then Satan and his angels will be cast out and restricted to the earth.

When Jesus said, "I beheld Satan fall like lightning from heaven" he was speaking of his original fall, but he still currently has access. But as I said, the big factor is the fact that we haven't seen any of the events that must take place prior to the 7th trumpet.

[/COLOR]

The first sign is the rider on the white horse.

He is given a crown.

His mission is to bring in the satanic one world government.

Given a crown signifies he doesn’t earn his authority, nor obtains it politically, but receives it either by expediency, or by blood lineage.
He assumes the usurped authority and power of Satan to go forth conquering, and to conquer, on a global scale mission to bring in the final world empire on behalf of the coming antichrist, the beast.

He rides a white horse.

The horse signifies a global beast movement lifting him up and parading him forth victoriously.

The four legs signifying the movement reaches to the four corners of the earth.

White, signifying a man of false righteousness, riding a global false righteousness movement (political correctness, save the earth, humanistic, socialistic, brotherhood of man, all religion equality, sexual equality, anything goes, global universalism etc..) extending to the four corners of the earth seeking GLOBAL PEACE & SAFETY.

Conquering and to conquer, signifies he will succeed unfailingly from the moment he rides forth. Successfully overcomes all obstacles to the satanic new world order.

He has a bow, but no arrows.

The bow signifies his global control over the ability to shoot intercontinental ballistic missiles.
The arrows of today are intercontinental and artillery nuclear warhead missiles.
The absence of arrows signifies his removal of arrows. That is, global nuclear disarmament of all nations.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The first sign is the rider on the white horse.

He is given a crown.

His mission is to bring in the satanic one world government.

Given a crown signifies he doesn’t earn his authority, nor obtains it politically, but receives it either by expediency, or by blood lineage.
He assumes the usurped authority and power of Satan to go forth conquering, and to conquer, on a global scale mission to bring in the final world empire on behalf of the coming antichrist, the beast.

He rides a white horse.

The horse signifies a global beast movement lifting him up and parading him forth victoriously.

The four legs signifying the movement reaches to the four corners of the earth.

White, signifying a man of false righteousness, riding a global false righteousness movement (political correctness, save the earth, humanistic, socialistic, brotherhood of man, all religion equality, sexual equality, anything goes, global universalism etc..) extending to the four corners of the earth seeking GLOBAL PEACE & SAFETY.

Conquering and to conquer, signifies he will succeed unfailingly from the moment he rides forth. Successfully overcomes all obstacles to the satanic new world order.

He has a bow, but no arrows.

The bow signifies his global control over the ability to shoot intercontinental ballistic missiles.
The arrows of today are intercontinental and artillery nuclear warhead missiles.
The absence of arrows signifies his removal of arrows. That is, global nuclear disarmament of all nations.

Hello Joseppi,

You didn't address the issue that I brought up. My point was/is that Satan and his angels being thrown out of heaven and restricted to the earth is the result of the 7th trumpet/3rd woe, which could not have taken place yet, because the world would have seen the events of all of the seals and trumpets 1 thru 6 and that because the 7th trumpet follows after the 6th trumpet. Therefore, since we have yet to see even the 1st seal opened, which is that revealing of that antichrist, then we could not have possibly seen the 7th trumpet. So, I don't know why you wrote all of that information in your post regarding the revealing of antichrist?

Read my post again and you will see that what you wrote has nothing to do with information in the post.

 

[Joseppi]

Hello Joseppi,

You didn't address the issue that I brought up. My point was/is that Satan and his angels being thrown out of heaven and restricted to the earth is the result of the 7th trumpet/3rd woe, which could not have taken place yet, because the world would have seen the events of all of the seals and trumpets 1 thru 6 and that because the 7th trumpet follows after the 6th trumpet. Therefore, since we have yet to see even the 1st seal opened, which is that revealing of that antichrist, then we could not have possibly seen the 7th trumpet. So, I don't know why you wrote all of that information in your post regarding the revealing of antichrist?

Read my post again and you will see that what you wrote has nothing to do with information in the post.

I referred you to the first seal because the first seal is Satan on earth giving a crown to the rider on the white horse.

Jesus Christ, proven worthy to open the seals is opening the seal that forces Satan to respond on earth.

Simply put, the whole of Revelation 12 proves the timeline of the whole conspiracy against God, from before the world began.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I referred you to the first seal because the first seal is Satan on earth giving a crown to the rider on the white horse.

Jesus Christ, proven worthy to open the seals is opening the seal that forces Satan to respond on earth.

Simply put, the whole of Revelation 12 proves the timeline of the whole conspiracy against God, from before the world began.

Morning,

I originally responded because you inferred that Jesus reference of "Satan being cast out of heaven like lightning" was the fulfillment of Rev.12. And I pointed out that all of the seals and the previous six trumpets would have to take place first before that could take place, and the fact that we have not seen any of them would demonstrate that Rev.12 (7th trumpet) could not yet have taken place. So I guess my question is, are you believing that the war in heaven has already taken place?

 

[Joseppi]

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

This wonder appears in heaven because it is the church of God, clothed with Jesus Christ (the sun, the Daystar),
the power to give birth (standing on the moon),
the house of Israel is her head,
(Jesus Christ is the true Israel, which includes the gentiles by way of Joseph’s son, Ephraim, the half tribe consisting of many nations as spoken by Jacob after he became the prophet named Israel, and which half tribe “Ephraim” rightly replaced Dan in the numbering of the 144,ooo).

The complete church of God in Christ consists of all the faithful to God; past, present and future.
As Stephen, full of the Holy Ghost said, the church was in the wilderness. Israel was in the wilderness.
Egypt is the world out of which Israel was born a nation unto God in the wilderness.

The church being faithful to God brought Jesus Christ into the world by promise of God.

As signified by Sarah having faith to find strength to conceive Isaac and bring him into the world beyond her flesh’s ability to do so.
Isaac being the child of promise.
All the children of faithful Abraham are in the true church and are brethren.

Which promise extends back to Eve in the garden of Eden, with Satan present and informed by God of whom his enemy would be, and how the man child will crush the head of Satan (satanic philosophy underpinning the red dragon conspiracy begun in heaven when seven heads united against God and formed the satanic conspiracy).

The birthright given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, unto the true “seed” Jesus Christ.

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

The red dragon is Satan.

The seven heads are seven angelic princes conspiring to overthrow the throne of God.
Red signifies blood oath, murderous intent, and defilement in heaven.

The ten horns are ten kings, governing ten principalities under the headship of the seven princes.

The tail signifies the serpent aspect of the Devil. It drew, signifies his ability to tempt and gain power over others.

That is, Satan seduced angels by means of his philosophy, gained power over them and forced (cast them) them down to the earth to child to prevent the birth of the promised man child, the “seed” Jesus Christ.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Jesus was to rule all nations with a rod of iron when he was born, but the nation of Israel rejected the Christ of God.

Jesus Christ ascended into heaven to his throne.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The church fled out of Israel into the world.

She, the woman, the true church of the faithful to God in Christ Jesus, is hidden in the world.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

When Jesus Christ ascended his throne open warfare ensued.

God who directed his only begotten Son to sit on his right hand until he made his enemies Jesus’ footstool, commanded Michael and his angels to cast the satanic red dragon conspiracy out of heaven.

Satan’s host didn’t prevail and lost all foothold in heaven.

That is how and when Lucifer fell.

The four sides of Lucifer are identified.
He was the red dragon conspiracy in heaven.
He was the serpent in the garden of Eden.
He is what man calls the Devil.
He is Satan.

He now resides in the earth.

All his angels are now with him imprisoned on earth.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

In heaven the accuser of the brethren is cast down, which formerly accused them continually before God.

The brethren formerly accused of breaking the law overcame Satan’s accusations under the law of Moses by the blood of Jesus Christ, and gave up their lives on earth.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Now everyone on earth is in danger. Because it is Satan’s last stand, and he mad with wrath, the time if the end has come.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

The dragon is Satan, the fallen Lucifer.

He sees he is confined to the earth as a prisoner until Jesus Christ comes to judge.
He persecutes the church that God used to bring Christ into the world.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

When the dragon falls the church flees again into the wilderness a second time and has a time, a times, and a half a time left.

The dragon hadn’t fallen when Jesus ascended to heaven, but that was when the church first fled into the wilderness at that time.

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Revelation 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Once the dragon is fallen he attacks the remnant of her seed. The saints on earth at that time.

The Devil sends forth a flood of words to carry away the church with false doctrines, false bibles, and false understanding, false gospels, false religion.

The earth helped protect the church by the opening up of the new world where the Holy Bible was secured from the old world.
When the flood of words fail the end time saints are directly attacked by great tribulation.

The remnant of her seed are the saints at the time of the end.

Her “seed” is Jesus Christ.

That is, the church of Jesus Christ is persecuted by the Devil on earth during the great tribulation of the saints.

God brought Jesus Christ into the world by the church of the faithful to God, which brethren in Christ, before Christ appeared among his brethren, had been accused by Satan day and night because of the law of Moses.

But, when Christ ascended the accuser was cast down because of the gospel given to the church.

The remnant of the church will be attacked by the dragon st the time of the end.

When the dragon appears at the time of the end he will appear as the seven headed, ten horned beast, rising out of a globalized sea of nations without borders, leading durectly to the mark of the beast.









.

 

[Studyman]

=

Ahwatukee;3467589]Like I said, if keeping the Sabbath was a requirement for salvation, it would be posted all over the NT and you find in the letters to the seven churches. But as I pointed out, the word "Sabbath" does not even appear in the book of Revelation, nor is it ever stated in the NT that the keeping of the Sabbath is a requirement for salvation. But I'll tell you that, if you make the Sabbath a requirement for salvation, then you are not trusting that the Lord accomplished salvation for you. You're saying that His finished word is not good and that you have to add to it by keeping the Sabbath.

Jesus and His Apostles taught Salvation from the Old Testament. "Commandments" is mentioned in the letters the apostles wrote 30 times. The Sabbath is mentioned 55 times and there is not one place where Jesus or His Apostles singled this one instruction and erased it. The Catholic Church and all her daughters did that and you are following it's Lead, not Christ's. The preaching that trusting Jesus and His instructions enough to obey them is somehow bad or sin is exactly what the serpent convinced Eve of. For me it's not about defending some religious social club that comes in Jesus name, it's studying the Word and letting Jesus guide my steps with them. As He said to do.

Only the religious people who reject God's Commandments as a matter of doctrine preach against them.

"One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

This letter written to the "Weak in Faith" makes my point if you don't cherry pick Paul's words.

What possible difference does it make to me what one person, weak in the faith, thinks over another person, weak in the Faith? You might do Lent, someone else might honor the Queen of Ephesians or the Winter Solstice or the Venerable Day of the Sun. Every man must study and "Seek" the Kingdom of God. You can't make a man have faith in God. He must decide for himself what is Holy and what is not, what is from God and what is not.

Why? Rom. 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

You do see that you are trying to use Paul's Letter to the weak in Faith to erase one of God's Commandments. To justify Catholic Tradition. How does this letter erase a commandment of God?

To be clear, anyone can observe any day or every day as special to the Lord, but it becomes a problem when it is taught as a requirement for salvation, because then one is not trusting in the Lord's finished work.

His Work was finished from the foundation of the world. It is your religious tradition to reject His Holy Words and instructions. Nowhere doe His Word teach us to do such things. You judge one of God's Commandments worthy of your honor and respect, then judge another of His Commandments as beneath you and not worthy of your honor and respect. That is exalting ones self as a judge of God's Word, not a faithful servant.

Whoever depends on the Sabbath as a requirement for salvation, will not enter into the kingdom of God, because you're trusting in your own efforts instead of Christ met the righteous requirement of the law, paid the penalty for sins and experience God's wrath on behalf of every believer. Anything that a person brings along side of the Lord's sacrifice as a requirement for salvation, is truly not trusting in the Lord.

How can I claim to Love the Jesus of the Bible, yet reject His instruction? Jesus Himself created this Holy Commandment. And He said He created it for man, not just the Jews. Jesus also created another Law. "Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself". If I keep His Sabbath but reject this Commandment, am I saved? Is this commandment considered by you, "a matter of Salvation"?

The point I'm trying to make is the Bible doesn't judge God's Sabbath as unworthy of respect just as it doesn't judge the Lev. 19 Law of "thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself" unworthy of respect. If you love your neighbor, but observe ancient pagan religious festivals and create images of God after the likeness of men, are you accepted? Can you reject whatever of God's Laws that go against the religion you were born into, or create your own Laws or "Feasts" and still be accepted?

You preach God's Commandments are not a "Salvation" issue, or at least one of them isn't. Doesn't Babylon do the exact same thing?

God's commandments that are spoken in your example is not referring to the law given to Moses, but His commandments are the following:

"Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

Your version of this one scripture doesn't wipe out the entire Bible or the rest of God's Word. Jesus said His Sabbath was made for man. But neither you, nor the Catholic church, nor most of the religious people of the world believes this.

How can you believe in Jesus and not believe what He says?

So, the commands of God are to believe in His Son and to love one another. The commands that he is speaking about are not the ten commands and the rest of the 600 laws. Those who are in Christ have died to the law. The believer has been set free from power of the law. It is the law which gives sin its power and sin leads to death, not because their is anything wrong with the law, but because of our sinful natures.

What are the 600 laws? This is another lie taught by the "Many" who come in Christ's name.

There is not now nor has God/Jesus ever instructed a man to obey 600 laws. This is just another lie being told to convince you to follow the words of the serpent as Eve did, and not Jesus.

So we have a sinful nature. What does the Bible say Jesus created for the sinner?

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Yet, most every Christian church on the planet preaches against God's Laws as you have demonstrated. Jesus created the Law for the sinner, which you know we all have a sinful nature, and He created His Sabbath for man.

Yet, the Catholic Church, you, and almost the entire Christian religion on the planet doesn't believe this. What Jesus are you listening to?

[/B]They judgment that he is speaking of is passing judgment i.e. sentencing, condemning, which I agree we should not do, but we are to make righteous judgments based on the word of God. People continually misinterpret the meaning of this word. Regarding judgment, what do you think about the following:

"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you. If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! - 1 Cor.5:12-13, 6:1-2

You have already judged the Catholic Church, you have judged God's Laws, and you have preached that God commanded us obey 600 laws which is not true. My point, and Paul's, is how can you judge the Catholic, who claims Jesus is truly the Son of God, for creating a religion from man when from my perspective you have done the same thing? Not to be judgmental, but as a brother. How can you preach things that are not true about God and His Word, like God commanded His people to keep 600 laws, and be guiltless when you condemn the Catholics as Babylon for doing the same thing?

So, yes we are to judge rightly, but only if we don't have a board in our eye and we not passing condemning judgment on anyone, for we should never do that at any time. And that the scripture that you posted is speaking about.

How can a man judge rightly when he rejects much the very Word Jesus gave us to discern with?

 

[Joseppi]

I originally responded because you inferred that Jesus reference of "Satan being cast out of heaven like lightning" was the fulfillment of Rev.12.

I didn’t infer that.
Satan was free to come and go at that time.
He came down quickly because of the multiplied number of disciples manifesting power at that time.
It shows that Satan hadn’t yet been cast out of heaven. And that ministry in the name of Jesus is a danger to him.

And I pointed out that all of the seals and the previous six trumpets would have to take place first before that could take place, and the fact that we have not seen any of them would demonstrate that Rev.12 (7th trumpet) could not yet have taken place. So I guess my question is, are you believing that the war in heaven has already taken place?

Yes, I believe it has.

Satan and his red dragon conspiracy of angels all were driven out by Michael when Jesus ascended to his throne.

The book of Revelation essentially begins with chapter 4 with God on his throne, and before him, a sea like glass, no indication of the red dragon open warfare.

Chapter 5 begins back when God sat with the little book in his right hand and no man had yet been found worthy to open it. (God promised a man would come and crush the serpents head)

Before Jesus was born, a time when no man was found in heaven worthy, no man found in the earth worthy, and no man was found under the earth worthy to open the book.
That is Jesus wasn’t found on the throne, on earth, nor in a grave.

Then Jesus appears after laying down his life as the Lamb of God.

Then the 24 elders express the gratitude of all the prayers of the saints, and the globalism of the gospel is expressed.

All the angels of heaven confess Jesus worthy.

No accuser present. No open warfare.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Ahwatukee: And I pointed out that all of the seals and the previous six trumpets would have to take place first before that could take place, and the fact that we have not seen any of them would demonstrate that Rev.12 (7th trumpet) could not yet have taken place. So I guess my question is, are you believing that the war in heaven has already taken place?

Joseppi: Yes, I believe it has. Satan and his red dragon conspiracy of angels all were driven out by Michael when Jesus ascended to his throne.

Now we've come full circle. As I said and according to scripture, you can't have the 7th trumpet, the result being Satan and his angels thrown out of heaven, because you have none of the seals or the six trumpets which much take place prior to the 7th trumpet being sounded. For example, at the opening the fourth seal, a fourth of the earths population is killed, which according to today's count would be over 1.7 billion people within the first 3 1/2 years of that seven years period.

Next you have the first trumpet where a third of the earth and trees are burned up! When did that happen?

Then at the sounding of the second trumpet, you have something like a huge mountain all ablaze (most likely an asteroid) which hits in one off the oceans, killing a third of the creatures in the sea and destroying a third of the ships. When has that happened?

At the sounding off the third trumpet, you have a star like a huge torch contaminating a third of the rivers and fresh water with many people dying from drinking it. When has this taken place?

At the sounding of the fourth trumpet, you have God darkening the sun, moon and stars by one third, so that the earth will only receiving two thirds of its normal light, both day and night. When has this taken place?

At the sounding of the fifth trumpet, you have an angel opening the Abyss and releasing demonic being resembling locusts who torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months with tails and stingers like of a scorpion. When have has the world seen this take place?

All of these must take place prior to the sounding of the seventh trumpet the result being Satan and his angels being thrown out of heaven and restricted to the earth. Since we have not seen those events mentioned above, which must take place first, then you cannot have the seventh trumpet having already taken place. This war in heaven takes place after the church has been gathered and in the middle of the seven years.

This is the point that I was trying to get across.

 

[Joseppi]

Now we've come full circle. As I said and according to scripture, you can't have the 7th trumpet, the result being Satan and his angels thrown out of heaven, because you have none of the seals or the six trumpets which much take place prior to the 7th trumpet being sounded. For example, at the opening the fourth seal, a fourth of the earths population is killed, which according to today's count would be over 1.7 billion people within the first 3 1/2 years of that seven years period.

Next you have the first trumpet where a third of the earth and trees are burned up! When did that happen?

Then at the sounding of the second trumpet, you have something like a huge mountain all ablaze (most likely an asteroid) which hits in one off the oceans, killing a third of the creatures in the sea and destroying a third of the ships. When has that happened?

At the sounding off the third trumpet, you have a star like a huge torch contaminating a third of the rivers and fresh water with many people dying from drinking it. When has this taken place?

At the sounding of the fourth trumpet, you have God darkening the sun, moon and stars by one third, so that the earth will only receiving two thirds of its normal light, both day and night. When has this taken place?

At the sounding of the fifth trumpet, you have an angel opening the Abyss and releasing demonic being resembling locusts who torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months with tails and stingers like of a scorpion. When have has the world seen this take place?

All of these must take place prior to the sounding of the seventh trumpet the result being Satan and his angels being thrown out of heaven and restricted to the earth. Since we have not seen those events mentioned above, which must take place first, then you cannot have the seventh trumpet having already taken place. This war in heaven takes place after the church has been gathered and in the middle of the seven years.

This is the point that I was trying to get across.

The seventh trumpet occurs when the world on earth is declared Christ’s.

Satan is fallen before the first seal.

Where did you get the idea that the seventh trumpet signifies the fall of Satan and his angels?

 

[Joseppi]

Satan and his angels being thrown out of heaven and restricted to the earth as revealed in Rev.12, is a result of the 7th trumpet/3rd woe.

No it isn’t related at all.

This event is has not yet taken place and that because the first seal has not even been opened, which initiates God's wrath.

The first seal has nothing to do wrath.

It has to do with Satan’s last stand on earth being forced by God’s timeline of the first seal and forward.

The first seal forces Satan to bring in world government by means of global nuclear terrorism leading to the man of peace and safety achieving nuclear disarmament.

Trumpets 5, 6 and 7 are referred to as "woes" and take place in order. That said, before the 7th trumpet takes place, the 5th trumpet/1st woe must take place which is when that angel releases those demonic beings from the Abyss, who are given commanded to torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months with stings like that of a scorpion. Have we seen any of these demonic being flying around?

The first seal hasn’t been opened.
The sign of the rider on the white horse is the sign we are awaiting.

They are now prepared by use of Iran, North Korea to use terrorism to garner global support for nuclear disarmament.

The Russian nuclear armament has probably been compromised as well.

Right now Trump is in the way.

Satan can’t send forth the rider on the white horse until terrorism is used to foment the global fear needed to bring in the global government in a hurry.

After that is the 6th trumpet where those four fallen angels are released from the area of the Euphrates River who gather a demonic army of 200 million and kill a third of mankind. Have we seen those demonic horses killing a third of mankind with fire, smoke and sulfur.

Therefore, since we have yet to see the literal fulfillment of these events, then neither could the 7th trumpet have taken place. Currently, Satan and His angels have access to heaven and accuse believers before God night and day. When that 7th trumpet sounds, then Satan and his angels will be cast out and restricted to the earth.

You don’t have a seventh trumpet fall of Lucifer from heaven.
Jesus returns at the sound of the seventh trumpet, not the devil.

When Jesus said, "I beheld Satan fall like lightning from heaven" he was speaking of his original fall, but he still currently has access. But as I said, the big factor is the fact that we haven't seen any of the events that must take place prior to the 7th trumpet.

No big factor prevented the fall of Lucifer after the blood of Jesus Christ was placed on the altar of God.
The blood removed all accusations against anyone that has faith in Jesus. That’s been true from the cross, but Jesus had to ascend to his throne, then without fanfare Michael attacked and cast the devil and his angels out.
How long that open warfare took so don’t know.
But the sign of the rider on the white horse bringing in false peace and security hasn’t been seen yet.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The first seal has nothing to do wrath.

It has to do with Satan’s last stand on earth being forced by God’s timeline of the first seal and forward.

The first seal forces Satan to bring in world government by means of global nuclear terrorism leading to the man of peace and safety achieving nuclear disarmament.

If the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are not God's wrath, then I don't what is!

You have to take into consideration that it is Jesus who is opening the seals, which lead into the trumpets and then followed by the bowl judgments and Jesus is the One initiating them. The bowl judgments are last because they complete God's wrath, which means that other wrath had to come before them.

"I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed." - Rev.15:1

Since the bowl judgments are last, completing God's wrath, that means that if they are last, then other wrath had to come before them, namely the seals and trumpets.

As I said, over 1.7 billion people (a fourth) are killed during the first 3 1/2 years. Then at the 6th trumpet one third of the inhabitants are killed. With just the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, they will equal over half the earths population killed within the first 3 1/2 years, and that is not including the fatalities resulting from trumpets 1, 2 and 3 nor the fatalities from the bowl judgments.

You don’t have a seventh trumpet fall of Lucifer from heaven.

Then you're just not reading the scripture, nor do you have enough study in end-time events. After each seal, trumpet and bowl, there is a resulting event. Satan and his angels being thrown out of heaven and restricted to the earth, is the event resulting from the 7th trumpet. If you say "No" then I would have to ask you to show me the event that results from the sounding of the 7th trumpet, because there isn't any other event.

But the sign of the rider on the white horse bringing in false peace and security hasn’t been seen yet.

Agreed, the first seal rider on the white horse is symbolically representing the antichrist. And since the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments take place in sequential order, then the 7th trumpet could not have possibly been sounded. I told you that before the 7th trumpet can sound, the 5th and 6th trumpet have sound first and we have not seen any of those events. You're talking gibberish above.

Jesus returns at the sound of the seventh trumpet, not the devil.

Just following the crowd, huh? You are completely wrong and do not know what you are talking about. Below is the scripture:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”

So above, you have the sounding of the 7th trumpet, but no event yet. What you have is a pre-celebration announcement before Satan and his angels are cast out. Then after the pre-celebration, you have the event of the 7th trumpet taking place, which is Satan and angels being thrown out of heaven, as described below:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

After the event, then you have a post-celebration announcement, as described below:

"Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:“Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe (third woe) to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.”

The reason that Satan knows his time is short is because he and his angels are thrown out of heaven and restricted to the earth in the middle of the seven years. Therefore, from that time he knows that he only has 3 1/2 years before Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, where he will be thrown into and restricted in the Abyss during Christ's millennial kingdom.

Satan and his angels currently have access to heaven and will not be thrown out of heaven until after the 7th trumpet has sounded. And before that the 6th trumpet must be sounded. And before that, the seals and the other trumpets must sound first. Their all in chronological order.

 

[gotime]

What does the bible say concerning it?

Those who receive the mark of the beast are contrasted with those who follow God. So by looking at the description of those who follow we may gain insight into those who do not.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

So we not that those who do not receive the mark but endure/patience have the faith of Jesus and keep the commandments of God.

It seems then that those who receive the mark do not have faith in Jesus or keep the commandments of God.

This lines up with the teachings of God as it is written:

Deu 6:1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
Deu 6:2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
Deu 6:3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

So here we find that God has a mark/sign and it is the commandments of God. This lines up with Revelation but note the faith of Jesus is here also in this verse:

Deu 6:9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

This is reference to the Passover lamb which is symbolic of Jesus the true sacrifice.

It is mentioned here in connection to Passover and unleavened bread:

Exo 13:8 And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the LORD did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt.
Exo 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.

By the way this was not just for Jews it was also for the stranger who chose to follow God as it is written:

Exo_12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.


So the two pieces the Old Testament give as God's mark on the forehead and in the hand is:

Keep the commandments of God.
And have faith in his provision.

Revelation reveals the same thing.

This is all about worship as those who receive the mark of the beast worship the beast.

Worship in the Old testament involved obeying Gods commandments. Anything outside of that was considered worship of false Gods.

 

[gotime]

Also it is mentioned in Revelation 13:

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

This imagery is borrowed from the book of Daniel:

Dan 3:1 Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold, whose height was threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof six cubits: he set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon.

So Neb, makes an "image" of gold that is 60 cubits high and 6 wide. two six's as apposed to three in Rev 13:

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The one in revelation is the completeness of the issue in Daniel.

notice the forced worship by Neb:

Dan 3:4 Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages,
Dan 3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:
Dan 3:6 And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.

The result of not doing so is death.

All the same elements of Daniel are in Revelation 13.

The issue is that to worship the image is to break the commandments of God.

Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

So this law would force people to either break the law of God and worship false gods or one would endure and keep the commandments of God.



This lines up with the imagery from my last post in Rev 14.

So while a chip could possible be involved, the chip will not be the mark of the beast. The mark of the beast is the opposite of the mark/sign of God.

Laws that will try to force Gods people to disobey God thus rendering worship to a false God.

 

[gotime]

By the way for interest,

the issue in the old testament is Babylon making a law to force Gods people to disobey Gods commandments and worship a false God.

In Revelation it is spiritual Babylon:

Rev_14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Rev_17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.