Martin Luther on Mary

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R

rodogg

Guest
#1
#1
Protestants may not be away of Martin Luther's views on Mary. Here are some. I hate copied and pasted threads myself, but here it is anyway:
[SIZE=-1]Christ, ..was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him... "brothers" really means "cousins" here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers. (Sermons on John, chapters 1-4.1537-39). He, Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb.. .This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that. (Ibid.)
God says... "Mary's Son is My only Son." Thus Mary is the Mother of God. (Ibid.).
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]God did not derive his divinity from Mary; but it does not follow that it is therefore wrong to say that God was born of Mary, that God is Mary's Son, and that Mary is God's mother...She is the true mother of God and bearer of God...Mary suckled God, rocked God to sleep, prepared broth and soup for God, etc. For God and man are one person, one Christ, one Son, one Jesus. not two Christs. . .just as your son is not two sons...even though he has two natures, body and soul, the body from you, the soul from God alone. (On the Councils and the Church, 1539).[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1]It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527). She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin—something exceedingly great. For God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. (Personal {"Little"} Prayer Book, 1522).


[SIZE=-1]There can he no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know. And since the Holy Spirit has told us nothing about it, we can make of it no article of faith... It is enough to know that she lives in Christ.[/SIZE]


[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart. (Sermon, September 1,[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] 1522). [She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ. ..She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures. (Sermon, Christmas, 1531).
No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity. (Sermon, Feast of the Visitation. 1537).
One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God's grace.. .Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ...Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).


[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=-1]It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother, Christ is his brother. God is his father. (Sermon. Christmas, 1522) [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees...If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother. (Sermon, Christmas, 1529). [/SIZE]
​
[SIZE=-1]Whoever possesses a good (firm) faith, says the Hail Mary without danger! Whoever is weak in faith can utter no Hail Mary without danger to his salvation. (Sermon, March 11, 1523). Our prayer should include the Mother of God.. .What the Hail Mary says is that all glory should be given to God, using these words: "Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ. Amen!" You see that these words are not concerned with prayer but purely with giving praise and honor.. .We can use the Hail Mary as a meditation in which we recite what grace God has given her. Second, we should add a wish that everyone may know and respect her...He who has no faith is advised to refrain from saying the Hail Mary. (Personal Prayer Book, 1522).
[/SIZE]
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#2
#2
What's the point?


On another note:

Deuteronomy 18
9 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD; because of these same detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. 13 You must be blameless before the LORD your God.
 
R

rodogg

Guest
#3
#3
No point I'm just the messenger, delivering some facts. :p Thought it was interesting for Protestants to know. And what does that Bible verse have to do with this? :)
 
K

kujo313

Guest
#4
#4
This "protestant" has been informed that Martin Luther had HIS OWN opinion.
In MY opinion, the verses in the Bible that mentions Mary is just enough that we need to know. Why? It's not about her. It's about God and how we can abide with Him forever.

Anything outside that is pointless.
 
R

rodogg

Guest
#5
#5
Don't be down on me I'm just posting some information about Martin Luther that I found interesting. I didn't write it. lol
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#6
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
0
71
#6
rodogg said:
Protestants may not be away of Martin Luther's views on Mary. Here are some. I hate copied and pasted threads myself, but here it is anyway:
[SIZE=-1]Christ, ..was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him... "brothers" really means "cousins" here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers. (Sermons on John, chapters 1-4.1537-39). He, Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb.. .This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that. (Ibid.) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]God says... "Mary's Son is My only Son." Thus Mary is the Mother of God. (Ibid.). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]God did not derive his divinity from Mary; but it does not follow that it is therefore wrong to say that God was born of Mary, that God is Mary's Son, and that Mary is God's mother...She is the true mother of God and bearer of God...Mary suckled God, rocked God to sleep, prepared broth and soup for God, etc. For God and man are one person, one Christ, one Son, one Jesus. not two Christs. . .just as your son is not two sons...even though he has two natures, body and soul, the body from you, the soul from God alone. (On the Councils and the Church, 1539).[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1]It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527). She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin—something exceedingly great. For God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. (Personal {"Little"} Prayer Book, 1522).[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]There can he no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know. And since the Holy Spirit has told us nothing about it, we can make of it no article of faith... It is enough to know that she lives in Christ.[/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=-1]


[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart. (Sermon, September 1,[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] 1522). [She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ. ..She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures. (Sermon, Christmas, 1531). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity. (Sermon, Feast of the Visitation. 1537). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God's grace.. .Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ...Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).[/SIZE]


​
[SIZE=-1]It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother, Christ is his brother. God is his father. (Sermon. Christmas, 1522) [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees...If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother. (Sermon, Christmas, 1529). [/SIZE]
​
[SIZE=-1]Whoever possesses a good (firm) faith, says the Hail Mary without danger! Whoever is weak in faith can utter no Hail Mary without danger to his salvation. (Sermon, March 11, 1523). Our prayer should include the Mother of God.. .What the Hail Mary says is that all glory should be given to God, using these words: "Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ. Amen!" You see that these words are not concerned with prayer but purely with giving praise and honor.. .We can use the Hail Mary as a meditation in which we recite what grace God has given her. Second, we should add a wish that everyone may know and respect her...He who has no faith is advised to refrain from saying the Hail Mary. (Personal Prayer Book, 1522).[/SIZE]
Click to expand...
There are no perfect people.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#7
#7
luther's views developed over time...if you read the things luther wrote in chronological order...you can see the progressive rejection of more and more roman catholic tradition over time... luther's doctrinal system really was not 'completed' until the 1530s...

even in these quotes you can get an idea of how luther moderated his regard for mary as the years passed... luther eventually rejected the hail mary prayer and all forms of prayer to mary and other dead saints...

of course luther had only one lifetime and the work of identifying and rejecting unscriptural traditions continued long after he died...
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#8
#8
RachelBibleStudent said:
luther's views developed over time...if you read the things luther wrote in chronological order...you can see the progressive rejection of more and more roman catholic tradition over time... luther's doctrinal system really was not 'completed' until the 1530s...

even in these quotes you can get an idea of how luther moderated his regard for mary as the years passed... luther eventually rejected the hail mary prayer and all forms of prayer to mary and other dead saints...

of course luther had only one lifetime and the work of identifying and rejecting unscriptural traditions continued long after he died...
Click to expand...
In some sense you can say that the rejection of "unscriptural" traditions is still continuing, with all the "primitive Christianity" movements and what not. But I find it weird that if Luther rejected prayer to the saints then why do most Lutheran synods today regard prayer to the saints as a matter of indifference?
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#9
#9
rodogg said:
Protestants may not be away of Martin Luther's views on Mary. Here are some. I hate copied and pasted threads myself, but here it is anyway:
[SIZE=-1]Christ, ..was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him... "brothers" really means "cousins" here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers. (Sermons on John, chapters 1-4.1537-39). He, Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb.. .This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that. (Ibid.)
God says... "Mary's Son is My only Son." Thus Mary is the Mother of God. (Ibid.).
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]God did not derive his divinity from Mary; but it does not follow that it is therefore wrong to say that God was born of Mary, that God is Mary's Son, and that Mary is God's mother...She is the true mother of God and bearer of God...Mary suckled God, rocked God to sleep, prepared broth and soup for God, etc. For God and man are one person, one Christ, one Son, one Jesus. not two Christs. . .just as your son is not two sons...even though he has two natures, body and soul, the body from you, the soul from God alone. (On the Councils and the Church, 1539).[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1]It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527). She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin—something exceedingly great. For God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. (Personal {"Little"} Prayer Book, 1522).


[SIZE=-1]There can he no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know. And since the Holy Spirit has told us nothing about it, we can make of it no article of faith... It is enough to know that she lives in Christ.[/SIZE]


[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart. (Sermon, September 1,[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] 1522). [She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ. ..She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures. (Sermon, Christmas, 1531).
No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity. (Sermon, Feast of the Visitation. 1537).
One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God's grace.. .Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ...Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).


[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=-1]It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother, Christ is his brother. God is his father. (Sermon. Christmas, 1522) [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees...If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother. (Sermon, Christmas, 1529). [/SIZE]
​
[SIZE=-1]Whoever possesses a good (firm) faith, says the Hail Mary without danger! Whoever is weak in faith can utter no Hail Mary without danger to his salvation. (Sermon, March 11, 1523). Our prayer should include the Mother of God.. .What the Hail Mary says is that all glory should be given to God, using these words: "Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ. Amen!" You see that these words are not concerned with prayer but purely with giving praise and honor.. .We can use the Hail Mary as a meditation in which we recite what grace God has given her. Second, we should add a wish that everyone may know and respect her...He who has no faith is advised to refrain from saying the Hail Mary. (Personal Prayer Book, 1522).
[/SIZE]
Click to expand...
I believe that Martin Luther had some very good things to say and teach (particularly at the start), but this is not one of them. This looks like one of those things that he caved in on so that the leaders would support him.
 
R

rodogg

Guest
#10
#10
Everyone argues with Catholics about believing "doctrines of men", and yet they follow the, perhaps unwritten, doctrines of a man. Anyway the point of this thread wasn't to start an arguement, I just thought some people would be interested. But then again, when does a thread begin on CC that doesn't turn into a big arguement...
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#11
#11
rodogg said:
Everyone argues with Catholics about believing "doctrines of men", and yet they follow the, perhaps unwritten, doctrines of a man. Anyway the point of this thread wasn't to start an arguement, I just thought some people would be interested. But then again, when does a thread begin on CC that doesn't turn into a big arguement...
Click to expand...
lol so true, I am not interested in arguing the ever viginity of mary, because I don't think it matters beyond her being virgin when she had Jesus.
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#12
#12
CanadaNZ said:
I believe that Martin Luther had some very good things to say and teach (particularly at the start), but this is not one of them. This looks like one of those things that he caved in on so that the leaders would support him.
Click to expand...
A good thing to keep in mind is that Martin Luther, unlike the Radical Reformers did not seek to recreate the church from the Bible but simply sought to change a few things. In all likelihood he saw no opposition to the perpetual virginity in the Scriptures. Another thing to remember is that Lutherans unlike their Radical Reformer contemporaries did not do away with Tradition entirely; they relegated to a position slightly below Scripture.

In some ways I feel it's dishonest to call most of American Christianity Protestants, since it stems from groups that no major Protestant reformer considered Protestant. In fact Anabaptists were the only group worse than Catholics to the Reformers.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#13
#13
SantoSubito said:
In some sense you can say that the rejection of "unscriptural" traditions is still continuing, with all the "primitive Christianity" movements and what not. But I find it weird that if Luther rejected prayer to the saints then why do most Lutheran synods today regard prayer to the saints as a matter of indifference?
Click to expand...
well those would not really be lutheran...lutheran doctrine was decisively defined by the seven confessions contained in the 'book of concord' of 1580...especially the augsburg confession...and the book of concord portrays prayer to saints very negatively
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#15
#15
rodogg said:
Everyone argues with Catholics about believing "doctrines of men", and yet they follow the, perhaps unwritten, doctrines of a man. Anyway the point of this thread wasn't to start an arguement, I just thought some people would be interested. But then again, when does a thread begin on CC that doesn't turn into a big arguement...
Click to expand...
I am not even sure why this would be interesting. Who cares what Luther thought. Not all people who are not catholic follow Luther, or even studies what he thought. He was also very very anti semetic. he still believed and held onto many of the Catholic doctrines which he was raised with and were ingrained in his mind.

People almost make this out to be a fight between people who lived many years ago., it is not about that. It is about, what does the bible say and teach.
 
R

rodogg

Guest
#16
#16
eternally-gratefull said:
I am not even sure why this would be interesting.
Click to expand...
Well I thought so, and I'm sure many others did. If you didn't why did you bother come here to comment and cause dissension? Wouldn't it have been easier on everyone just not to have bothered?

eternally-gratefull said:
Who cares what Luther thought. Not all people who are not catholic follow Luther, or even studies what he thought.
Click to expand...
I didn't say they were or do. :)
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#17
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#17
I liked the 95 theses. Other than that I haven't really studied Martin Luther.


Its interesting looking back on what some of the "giants" of christianity believed. I suppose its important to remember that men aren't infallible and they come up with all kinds of ideas that aren't necessarily biblical or true.






 
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