Mathew 5

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M

Mel

Guest
#1
Salt and Light

13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.

Do you think this means that if your a christian and you fall away from God and lose your zeal you cant get it back? I dont really believe that, but its sorta a scary passage.
 
N

NazariteNation

Guest
#2
Salt and Light

13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.

Do you think this means that if your a christian and you fall away from God and lose your zeal you cant get it back? I dont really believe that, but its sorta a scary passage.
Mel,

By chance have you ever experienced christian "burn-out"? The feeling that, while you would never turn your back on God, you can't help but feel that you are spinning your tires and going absolutely nowhere. It's happened to me and a lot of christians that I know.

I can even tell you why. Christian "burn-out" occurs when no matter where you go or what you do, you just can't seem to find your place, your niche. You basically become a boat with no wind behind it's sails. You loose any and all motivation. This usually happens to christians when they volunteer themselves tirelessly yet they don't see any progress toward a specific goal or vision.

However, if you read the entire contents of Matthew, chapters 5 through 7, you will find that nowhere in the scripture does it talk about you or your dreams and goals. In fact, the scripture tells us that, while we should be humble and resilient servants, we are not to focus on treasures of this world but "lay up treasures in heaven".

Matthew chapters 5 - 7 are known as "The Sermon On The Mount". Basically this where Jesus describes to us how we should live as followers of Christ. If you read through the Sermon carefully you will notice a simple theme... SELFLESSNESS. When you get to the very core of the christian (Kingdom) lifestyle as it is described in scripture, you will find that a true christian (Kingdom citizen) labors out of love and does not give in to selfish pursuits. When you finally experience this revelation for yourself and it begins to take root both in your heart and mind, there is much freedom to be found in it because it is very difficult for the enemy to tempt when your thoughts and actions are consumed on the benefit of others rather than personal gain. This is a concept that the enemy can not understand.
 
N

NazariteNation

Guest
#3
Mel,

By chance have you ever experienced christian "burn-out"? The feeling that, while you would never turn your back on God, you can't help but feel that you are spinning your tires and going absolutely nowhere. It's happened to me and a lot of christians that I know.

I can even tell you why. Christian "burn-out" occurs when no matter where you go or what you do, you just can't seem to find your place, your niche. You basically become a boat with no wind behind it's sails. You loose any and all motivation. This usually happens to christians when they volunteer themselves tirelessly yet they don't see any progress toward a specific goal or vision.

However, if you read the entire contents of Matthew, chapters 5 through 7, you will find that nowhere in the scripture does it talk about you or your dreams and goals. In fact, the scripture tells us that, while we should be humble and resilient servants, we are not to focus on treasures of this world but "lay up treasures in heaven".

Matthew chapters 5 - 7 are known as "The Sermon On The Mount". Basically this where Jesus describes to us how we should live as followers of Christ. If you read through the Sermon carefully you will notice a simple theme... SELFLESSNESS. When you get to the very core of the christian (Kingdom) lifestyle as it is described in scripture, you will find that a true christian (Kingdom citizen) labors out of love and does not give in to selfish pursuits. When you finally experience this revelation for yourself and it begins to take root both in your heart and mind, there is much freedom to be found in it because it is very difficult for the enemy to tempt when your thoughts and actions are consumed on the benefit of others rather than personal gain. This is a concept that the enemy can not understand.
No one says it better than Jesus himself in Chapter 7, verses 25 - 34:

 
N

NazariteNation

Guest
#4
No one says it better than Jesus himself in Chapter 7, verses 25 - 34:
Oops! My last post should read like this! *lol*

No one says it better than Jesus himself in Chapter 7, verses 25 - 34:

"Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?

So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?

“Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear? For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
 
M

Mel

Guest
#5
ok ok, what if you fall away from God though, maybe its meaning that? As in you still believe but you go back to your entire lifestyle of sin.
Once again Im leaning more towards the probably not "never again" side, but its just unclear to me.

<3
 
K

Kyra

Guest
#6
Re: Mathew 5- eternal security


Actually, I don't think Matthew 5 is about falling away from God. I think it's about losing your witness.

But about "Falling away" from God, there are two view points on it.


View 1: Yes, a true Christian can lose their salvation.

People who believe this are not talking about back sliding, struggling with one's faith or doubt. They are talking about people who willfully choose to break their commitment to God, deny Him to His face, live a lifestyle of sin - and continue to do so until death.

Some of their points are:

---Both the will of man and the will of God are involved in salvation. God does not "override" our will. If we we choose to treat the blood of Christ as if it were nothing, expect serious consequences- of fire and judgement.
(Hebrews 10:26-31)

--- Salvation encompasses more then a one time decision, it is a lifetime commitment, marked by continual choice and "fruit". If we do not "remain" in Christ we will be thrown out, and burned in the fire. (John 15:6)

--- Jesus told the people in Matthew 10:22 "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" for a reason- they were under intense persecution and making it to the end is part of the deal. Again in Hebrews 3:14- "We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first."



That is just a sampling of what they would say.



And actually I'm going to stop here, and let someone else explain the opposing view thatit is impossible for a true Christian to lose their salvation.....




















 
E

EconGrad

Guest
#7
Salvation is tricky thing to talk about because we lump so many things under that title.

Salvation includes regeneration, conversion, justification, and sanctification.

I've heard some good arguments that individuals can lose their sanctification, the effects of their regeneration and appear to go back to before their conversion.

What I've yet to see is a decent Biblical argument that individuals can lose their justification (justification is Christ justifying us as righteous on his account).

My understanding of grace is not that God helps us out so we can save ourselves. My understanding of grace is that it is a free gift. Our behavior isn't relevant to God justifying all the sins we will ever commit. All that's relevant is the work of Christ and our genuine justification by faith.

That is how I understand the concept of eternal security. We may lose many elements of our salvation in this life but our justification is not something we're able to lose.
 
K

Kyra

Guest
#8
The questions isn't whether salvation can be lost, the question is can it be thrown away?
 
E

EconGrad

Guest
#9
Well, I would say no since we don't possess justification of sins because of our behavior. Salvation is simply an accomplished act of Christ. We cannot undo the justification Christ has accomplished on the Cross. That's what grace means as best I can understand it.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#10
Peter denied Jesus three times. Yet we see how he salted the Earth rather well for Jesus.

I think that's your answer right there. :)
 
O

onwingsaseagles

Guest
#11
Salt and Light

13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.

Do you think this means that if your a christian and you fall away from God and lose your zeal you cant get it back? I dont really believe that, but its sorta a scary passage.
I do not think that is what that verse is saying, but if you really want to here a passage that would scare you read Hebrews 6:4-6
 
M

Mel

Guest
#12
Peter denied Jesus three times. Yet we see how he salted the Earth rather well for Jesus.

I think that's your answer right there. :)
Thank you stilly for being amazing
 
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NazariteNation

Guest
#13
The questions isn't whether salvation can be lost, the question is can it be thrown away?
I tend to agree with Kyra on this issue. I do not believe that God turns his back on anyone. After all scripture tells us that it is his will that no one should perish however, ultimately the choice is ours. If one could not throw away his or her salvation then how would you explain the parable of the Prodigal Son?

I truly believe that one can be saved then, because of some unfortunate incident, one can loose faith faith and completely walk away. I have seen instances like this where established Pastors would leave the faith after their wife's infidelity or the death of a child then lead very reckless lifestyles with no desire whatsoever to repent.

It's happens folks whether you want to believe it or not.
 
Jul 7, 2005
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#14
i must agree with kyra and naz...im the prodigal daughter, i lived that life out ,thankfully i came home again and God welcomed me with open arms But I had to return ,He didnt chase me down ,im so glad He was waiting and watching for my return.
 
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