Matthew 18:19

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K

Katy

Member
#1
Jan 16, 2011
81
36
18
#1
[FONT=arial, helvetica]"Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven."

I have always been a huge fan of this verse (for obvious reasons). I stumbled upon a website suggesting the below and thought I would throw this out as a topic of discussion for people who may understand the bible more so than I. I am still learning ( and will be forever) about the bible.. and believe it important to understand verses in context.

[/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica] WHAT VERSE 19 IS NOT
1. Verse 19 has NOTHING to do with requests to God by a believer, in relation to health, wealth, happiness or any other aspect or desire in their own life.
2. NO request is made to God by the individuals in the verses.
3. God is NOT asked to agree with or grant any request that is made.
4. The subject of verse 19 is NOT about prayer and prayer is never mentioned.
5. The two persons of verse 19 are NOT individual Christian believers making requests for themselves.[/FONT]
 
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Patchman

Guest
#2
#2
Grace and Peace

Sometimes the people try to complicate the Word of God to boast as if they have discovered some type of hidden secret in the bible. The Spirit of God is very direct in what He means and says. God is not trying to over complicate or trick anyone in scripture. Please continue to take the Word of God, just as a "child." Believing what your Father in heaven has spoken to your heart. Jesus said that anything that you loose on earth would be loosed in heaven. And anything that you bind in earth would be bound in Heaven. That too, is a very direct statement. If a person broke the law of Moses in the old testament, that person could face death by the witness of two people...bottom line. Jesus said that if two people agree on anything that it shall be done...bottom line.
 
Pinemeadowsgeorge

Pinemeadowsgeorge

Banned
#3
Jan 20, 2011
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taking it without a riddle mentality is awsome, thanks for pointing it out, sometimes the deepest wisdom seems simple..
 
K

Katy

Member
#4
Jan 16, 2011
81
36
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#4
Patchman said:
Grace and Peace

Sometimes the people try to complicate the Word of God to boast as if they have discovered some type of hidden secret in the bible. The Spirit of God is very direct in what He means and says. God is not trying to over complicate or trick anyone in scripture. Please continue to take the Word of God, just as a "child." Believing what your Father in heaven has spoken to your heart. Jesus said that anything that you loose on earth would be loosed in heaven. And anything that you bind in earth would be bound in Heaven. That too, is a very direct statement. If a person broke the law of Moses in the old testament, that person could face death by the witness of two people...bottom line. Jesus said that if two people agree on anything that it shall be done...bottom line.
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Thank you Patchman. That is great advice. I am trying so hard to be a good Christian, and learning and understanding the word... seems so simple yet makes sense. Read the bible.. and let the Holy Spiriy work on your heart :)
 
S

sensitive

Guest
#5
#5
It is a very dangerous thing to rely on other people to tell you what the Bible states. That is how you wind up with false teachings and being led astray. Always read the Bible for yourself and rely on God to teach you not man or woman and then you will be just fine.
 
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Slepsog4

Guest
#6
#6
The context of this passage is a conversation Jesus had with the apostles. It is about THEIR work and THEIR ministry. It has nothing to do with anyone living at that time outside of that group, let alone anyone living today. Not every statement or even every promise made in Scripture is universal. CONTEXT folks, CONTEXT.

Know who is speaking
Know to whom it is spoken
Understand the setting
Observe the details
 
Pinemeadowsgeorge

Pinemeadowsgeorge

Banned
#7
Jan 20, 2011
104
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sensitive said:
It is a very dangerous thing to rely on other people to tell you what the Bible states. That is how you wind up with false teachings and being led astray. Always read the Bible for yourself and rely on God to teach you not man or woman and then you will be just fine.
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but what about guys like Joseph Smith, he read the bible and came up with his interpretation?? False teaching is not something limited to others, but our own minds can even make them up.. I dont think you can ever rely on yourself but with God as you said. If you believe it is a very dangerous thing to rely on the holy traditions then i can certainly understand how false teaching would spring up. Its true that you have to take anothers interpretation with a grain of salt, but what about the writings of St. Seraphim of Sarov, St. Basil the Great, St. John Chrisistom, and any number of other saints, are their words not valid??
 
D

DanuckInUSA

Guest
#8
#8
While I question the restriction of the verse to the Apostles I do not uphold this verse to a request whatever you want and expect it. There is something to the character of a disciple of Christ. A true disciple should be desiring the things of God, God's will. If two or more requests God's will I believe this verse is true in God's will be done.
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#9
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
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sensitive said:
It is a very dangerous thing to rely on other people to tell you what the Bible states. That is how you wind up with false teachings and being led astray. Always read the Bible for yourself and rely on God to teach you not man or woman and then you will be just fine.
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You can't keep warning believers that they have to avoid teachers and preachers because they all teach false doctrine. That's being very insecure and giving believers bad counsel. God has raised up pastors and teachers for the church to teach and preach so that believers can rely upon those that labour in the word and doctrine (Eph 4:11-15, 1Tim 5:17, Heb 13:7,17,24, 1Thes 5:12). You and your husband may not want what God has provided the church but don't mislead and tell others to disobey what God has provided for the church. I don't care how many bad stories are out their, God is not slack concerning His promise and He will provide (2Pt 3:9).

In Mt 18:20, where two or more are gathered together, it is dealing with two or three witnesses in relationship to a trespassing brother and has nothing to do with constituting a church body. These witnesses come from the church body and if their eye witness testimony is rejected they are to bring it to the church. Using that verse to constitute a church body and to replace a pastor-teacher that God raises up is just unwise and not what the scriptures teach. Relying upon those that God has given to the church is an absolute must so that we can learn how to humble ourselves under the mighty hand of God and to receive the word of God in meekness (1Pt 5:5, Jm 4:6,10, Jm 1:21,22).

Katy should be encouraged to be a part of an assembly of believers that are being fed the word of God, who live by faith and have the love of God operating in their heart.
 
K

Katy

Member
#10
Jan 16, 2011
81
36
18
#10
sensitive said:
It is a very dangerous thing to rely on other people to tell you what the Bible states. That is how you wind up with false teachings and being led astray. Always read the Bible for yourself and rely on God to teach you not man or woman and then you will be just fine.
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Hi Sensitive,

I think I understand what you are trying to say..and I do interpret the bible for myself. In saying that, I find it extremely helpful to ask others, who have studies the bible in more depth to point things out that I have not seen before or looked at in such a way.

I feel prior posts re: letting the Holy Spirit be a guide extremely helpful however at the same time I also believe it to be instrumental to view the bible within the context in which it was written, as by knowing this it helps to build a better picture as to the message that was meant to be portrayed... does that make sense?

Particularly as one of my main struggles a the moment, is differentiating between the holy spirit and my own desires. Particularly surrounding this verse. I want to be a follower of Christ, and as I am struggling in this way, I want to make sure that I am understandng verses correctly... ao if it means if I can find solid Christians who can assist in the true meaning.. I will.
 
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Gabriel212012

Guest
#11
#11
I know this goes off subject a little, but I really like the verse above it.
Matthew 18:18;
"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
My interpritation of this verse is that we need to secure those we love. If our brother is wrong then show him he is wrong so that he can do what is right and be saved. It may not be our job to save him soley, but if we each use the unique gifts God gave us each encounter your brother comes across like this will be like a lit path so that he can find his way to salvation. Don't turn your back on or lose faith in your brother without putting your best effort in being a part of his salvation, the consiquence could be his ****ation.
 
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Sinnner

Guest
#12
#12
Slepsog4 said:
The context of this passage is a conversation Jesus had with the apostles. It is about THEIR work and THEIR ministry. It has nothing to do with anyone living at that time outside of that group, let alone anyone living today. Not every statement or even every promise made in Scripture is universal. CONTEXT folks, CONTEXT.

Know who is speaking
Know to whom it is spoken
Understand the setting
Observe the details
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Are you serious? Surely you are joking.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#13
#13
It pretty much has to do with church discipline in its full context. It's not so much a formula for getting stuff in prayer that you want. It's about doing certain things for church discipline and working God's approval in it.
 
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