Matthew 5:39 Why would God command us to not resist evil?

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Dec 30, 2018
36
2
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#81
Of course I wouldn’t be trying to preach to them at a time like that no more than I would be In church trying to tell a man politely not to use the womens bathroom,I would toss them out,I think you misunderstood what I said an argued a scenario of your own making.
Yes, we do misunderstand each other I think. You are replying from your own sense of reasoning. I too can rationalize to make the bible into something I'm comfortable with. To see what I want to see. However is there somewhere in the bible that says as you suggest not to preach to others in time of crisis but take what worldly action we see fit at the time?

I know I'm difficult. I apologize for that. It would be so easy for me to just cherry pick to make the bible say what I want. Preachers for years told me via their sermons "what to think and what to believe." I never really needed to read the bible and think what am I really being told here? The preacher said "believe Jesus is the Son of God, believe that He died on the cross to pay in full for your sins, do your best not to sin and remember to tithe, thats all you need to know"

So when I read just the words that the Son of God said, Jesus himself never EVER said his dying on the cross pays for humanities sins in full if they believe He did that for them. Show me the spot where Jesus says this if I'm mistaken.

Instead when I read I read things like Jesus is the only Begotton son of God. Believe what HE says if you want to get to heaven.
.. and Jesus then says specific things to enable us in heaven, such as very few people will ever catch on as to how ( Matthew 7:13-14) to get to heaven, and I find when I reach out to talk to people about this they get awkward, uncomfortable and defensive.

I really hoped that I"d be able to find those here in Christian chat that would say "ahh well here's where the bible gives the answers you're seeking" rather than the current experience.

I'm thinking the reason I'm not finding easy answers that I've missed, is because they don't exist.

I'm also thinking that until they do I'd be wise to defend my family in time of trouble and pray that God will understand, forgive and have my back.
Thanks for your input.
kind regards,
Martin
 

Tararose

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
548
410
63
Uk
www.101christiansocialnetwork.com
#82
Yes, we do misunderstand each other I think. You are replying from your own sense of reasoning. I too can rationalize to make the bible into something I'm comfortable with. To see what I want to see. However is there somewhere in the bible that says as you suggest not to preach to others in time of crisis but take what worldly action we see fit at the time?

I know I'm difficult. I apologize for that. It would be so easy for me to just cherry pick to make the bible say what I want. Preachers for years told me via their sermons "what to think and what to believe." I never really needed to read the bible and think what am I really being told here? The preacher said "believe Jesus is the Son of God, believe that He died on the cross to pay in full for your sins, do your best not to sin and remember to tithe, thats all you need to know"

So when I read just the words that the Son of God said, Jesus himself never EVER said his dying on the cross pays for humanities sins in full if they believe He did that for them. Show me the spot where Jesus says this if I'm mistaken.

Instead when I read I read things like Jesus is the only Begotton son of God. Believe what HE says if you want to get to heaven.
.. and Jesus then says specific things to enable us in heaven, such as very few people will ever catch on as to how ( Matthew 7:13-14) to get to heaven, and I find when I reach out to talk to people about this they get awkward, uncomfortable and defensive.

I really hoped that I"d be able to find those here in Christian chat that would say "ahh well here's where the bible gives the answers you're seeking" rather than the current experience.

I'm thinking the reason I'm not finding easy answers that I've missed, is because they don't exist.

I'm also thinking that until they do I'd be wise to defend my family in time of trouble and pray that God will understand, forgive and have my back.
Thanks for your input.
kind regards,
Martin
Martin

It’s great you want to follow only the word. Sometimes however the word seems to contradict at first glance. That is why we look at context for each verse and see if we can discover why they seem to contradict. Often it is our misunderstanding the text that illudes to a contradiction. If we formulate an understanding that encompasses all of the texts( in thier contexts ) then we know that our understanding is far more likely to be inline with the character and consistent truths of God.

Like yourself I have been challenging myself for many years to examine all my beliefs and theology in light of all the bible. Mans reasoning and logic are not always wrong, though they can be and that is why we line what we hear up with the scripture.

Keep on relying on the Lord. But don’t give up on fellowship and hearing others out too :) we none of us have all knowledge and are all sharpening one another like iron sharpens iron.

If we agreed on everything with every believer that would be miraculous. Until that day we must bear with one another with fervent love and respect.

Sometimes a person may not be a scholar or teacher of scripture, but may know God intimately and Gods spirit abides in them. They may well have an answer that is worth our ear, but which requires fervent checking on our part to confirm it aligns with the word fully, as the person may not have the gift of knowing chapter and verse that we require.

Anyway, it’s been a fascinating topic and I am glad it was posted. Thanks.

Ultimately it is before his own master a man stands or falls, thankfully for us, He is a living father as well as a master :)
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
646
99
28
#83
To put it simply,Those who resist evil will probably suffer more serious revenge,Because evil people follow the principle of eye for eye and tooth for tooth.
 

Carmena

New member
Feb 18, 2021
2
1
1
#84
Hi Martin,

I found this forum as I was doing my morning reading and too struggled with what I initially read. After reading various viewpoints and seeking God for more understanding. I found an article this article. I think that we are to stand firm in Gods truth which is love and in love there correction and rebuke! When we see evil we are called to rebuke and walk in rebuke in Jesus Name, but we don’t want to become that evil that was done to us or someone we love. Also, the element of patience and fortitude that God supplies us when we stand for His Truth and ways.

https://questions.org/attq/what-did-jesus-mean-when-he-said-to-turn-the-other-cheek-matthew-539 /

Matthew 5:39 no resisting evil doer

What did Jesus mean when He said not to resist an evildoer, and to instead turn the other cheek (Matthew 5:39)?
In Matthew 5:38-41 , Jesus made three radical statements. First, He said that a person should turn the other cheek when someone strikes him. Second, He declared that His followers should give those who sue them more than they are asking. Third, He said that a person conscripted by a Roman officer to carry a load for 1 mile should offer to go 2 miles. Does this mean that we should never resist when somebody attacks us? Should we let everyone take advantage of us?
This can’t be what Jesus meant. After all, Jesus denounced the Pharisees who attacked Him ( Matthew 23 ), and objected when He was struck by one of the officers of the high priest ( John 18:22-23). Further, He advised His disciples to take measures to defend themselves ( Matthew 10:16; Luke 22:36-38 ). He also declared that they shouldn’t worry beforehand about how they should respond to their enemies’ charges, because He would give them the right words to say so that their adversaries wouldn’t be able “to contradict or resist” them ( Luke 21:14-15 ).
Similarly, the apostle Paul aggressively defended himself against his enemies, asserting his rights as a Roman citizen, and making it clear to his attackers that there could be consequences if he were unlawfully harmed ( Acts 23:1-3; 25:14-27 ).
What Jesus asks of His followers is not passivity, but surrender of the right to personal revenge. His three radical examples make His point about the attitude we should have toward those who wrong us. Rather than getting even, we should be willing to go to the opposite extreme. We need to be ready to humble ourselves for the kingdom of God. We need to understand that vengeance isn’t ours, but the Lord’s ( Romans 12:19 ).
The natural human tendency has been to seek the emotional satisfaction of revenge for perceived injury ( Genesis 4:8 ). Our instinctive response to any kind of injury is hatred and desire for vengeance. This is why Jesus made it so clear in His Sermon on the Mount that not only outward murder but also inward hatred is subject to God’s judgment ( Matthew 5:22-23 ).
The Old Testament law placed limitations on vengeance ( Exodus 21:23-25 ). Although, the “eye for an eye” provision of the Mosaic law has often been misunderstood as requiring vengeance, its actual purpose was to place limitations on it. The law prescribed that punishment must fit the crime. The law wouldn’t permit taking a life in revenge for an insult or a minor injury. If an eye were put out, only an eye could be taken; if a tooth, only a tooth.
Jesus went much further than the law, making it clear that He wasn’t merely calling for more limitations on vengeance. In Matthew 5:38-48 , He implied that we must give up personal vengeance altogether. But as illustrated above by both Jesus and Paul, there is a difference between confronting evil and seeking personal revenge. It is possible to confront evil with a desire for the redemption of its perpetrator. We are called to love a sinner while confronting his sin, but when we seek vengeance we are motivated by hatred—a desire to make someone suffer for what they have done to us.
If Matthew 5:38-48 were taken literally at all times, we would have to let everyone take advantage of us. Turning the other cheek would become an encouragement for evil. This isn’t what Jesus had in mind. His vivid examples illustrate His disciples’ need to give up any sense of entitlement to personal revenge, to be purged of the motivation of personal vengeance. By asking them to turn the other cheek, Jesus meant that His disciples should be motivated by love and a desire for the redemption and forgiveness of offenders—even when opposing their actions.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
1,529
623
113
#86
Another way of understanding our Lords words could be that the law only permitted punishment to go so far, but if it went beyond that, not to resist it.
 
Dec 30, 2018
36
2
8
#87
To put it simply,Those who resist evil will probably suffer more serious revenge,Because evil people follow the principle of eye for eye and tooth for tooth.
.. or perhaps the bible is put together to create strife to support an evil atmosphere
and God, the creator and maintainer of existence, is entirely separate from religion(s)..

As I continue to read for myself I find that what books will be included in the bible were cherry picked. Did God somewhere say don't put in the book of Thomas or Judas, ONLY the other guys? or did those who first formed the Christian church, aka popes etc. On the subjects of Peter on whom Jesus built his church, Peter betrayed Jesus three times before dawn right? In the first Christian church where the books were put together, does Matthew 23:9 say "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. " Yet those who cared for the flock are called "father" yes? in that religion. Luke 12 51-53 Jesus says "Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. For from now on in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.” "

The New Testament .. Jesus ministered three years actively before his death. He could transmute matter from one state to another aka water to wine, one fish to five thousand, make water he stepped on a solid, fly, cure any sickness, raise the dead himself included, and more. Now if someone did this today, our documentation of what this being had to say would likely far exceed 3 hours worth of reading, which is about all it takes to read what the New Testament has to say about what the Son of God said. .. and many weeks of reading for what his followers had to say as they reiterate what he said and add their own takes on it which differ person to person book to book.

One of the dominant religions on Earth is Christianity. Yet our world top to bottom is one huge cesspool of corruption and greed with some pockets safer than others for the moment, it's not getting better. When we read the bible ourselves, it presents more questions than answers. Yet in any bible study I have ever been part of, the things I question today were never brought up or quickly pooh poohed away, or cherry picked into one theme by taking things from original context and piecing them together. \

To me, all this is hard to deal with. The God I know is infallible, not subvertible, fears not the truth nor the light of questioning. God, is direct, everywhere at all times, and loves all his creations.

For me, these are very confusing times but like a dog worrying a bone, I keep at it until God who lives in my heart, sets me at peace but so far, something smells amiss in Denmark as the saying goes.
 
Dec 30, 2018
36
2
8
#88
Hi Martin,

I found this forum as I was doing my morning reading and too struggled with what I initially read. After reading various viewpoints and seeking God for more understanding. I found an article this article. I think that we are to stand firm in Gods truth which is love and in love there correction and rebuke! When we see evil we are called to rebuke and walk in rebuke in Jesus Name, but we don’t want to become that evil that was done to us or someone we love. Also, the element of patience and fortitude that God supplies us when we stand for His Truth and ways.

https://questions.org/attq/what-did-jesus-mean-when-he-said-to-turn-the-other-cheek-matthew-539 /

Matthew 5:39 no resisting evil doer

What did Jesus mean when He said not to resist an evildoer, and to instead turn the other cheek (Matthew 5:39)?
In Matthew 5:38-41 , Jesus made three radical statements. First, He said that a person should turn the other cheek when someone strikes him. Second, He declared that His followers should give those who sue them more than they are asking. Third, He said that a person conscripted by a Roman officer to carry a load for 1 mile should offer to go 2 miles. Does this mean that we should never resist when somebody attacks us? Should we let everyone take advantage of us?
This can’t be what Jesus meant. After all, Jesus denounced the Pharisees who attacked Him ( Matthew 23 ), and objected when He was struck by one of the officers of the high priest ( John 18:22-23). Further, He advised His disciples to take measures to defend themselves ( Matthew 10:16; Luke 22:36-38 ). He also declared that they shouldn’t worry beforehand about how they should respond to their enemies’ charges, because He would give them the right words to say so that their adversaries wouldn’t be able “to contradict or resist” them ( Luke 21:14-15 ).
Similarly, the apostle Paul aggressively defended himself against his enemies, asserting his rights as a Roman citizen, and making it clear to his attackers that there could be consequences if he were unlawfully harmed ( Acts 23:1-3; 25:14-27 ).
What Jesus asks of His followers is not passivity, but surrender of the right to personal revenge. His three radical examples make His point about the attitude we should have toward those who wrong us. Rather than getting even, we should be willing to go to the opposite extreme. We need to be ready to humble ourselves for the kingdom of God. We need to understand that vengeance isn’t ours, but the Lord’s ( Romans 12:19 ).
The natural human tendency has been to seek the emotional satisfaction of revenge for perceived injury ( Genesis 4:8 ). Our instinctive response to any kind of injury is hatred and desire for vengeance. This is why Jesus made it so clear in His Sermon on the Mount that not only outward murder but also inward hatred is subject to God’s judgment ( Matthew 5:22-23 ).
The Old Testament law placed limitations on vengeance ( Exodus 21:23-25 ). Although, the “eye for an eye” provision of the Mosaic law has often been misunderstood as requiring vengeance, its actual purpose was to place limitations on it. The law prescribed that punishment must fit the crime. The law wouldn’t permit taking a life in revenge for an insult or a minor injury. If an eye were put out, only an eye could be taken; if a tooth, only a tooth.
Jesus went much further than the law, making it clear that He wasn’t merely calling for more limitations on vengeance. In Matthew 5:38-48 , He implied that we must give up personal vengeance altogether. But as illustrated above by both Jesus and Paul, there is a difference between confronting evil and seeking personal revenge. It is possible to confront evil with a desire for the redemption of its perpetrator. We are called to love a sinner while confronting his sin, but when we seek vengeance we are motivated by hatred—a desire to make someone suffer for what they have done to us.
If Matthew 5:38-48 were taken literally at all times, we would have to let everyone take advantage of us. Turning the other cheek would become an encouragement for evil. This isn’t what Jesus had in mind. His vivid examples illustrate His disciples’ need to give up any sense of entitlement to personal revenge, to be purged of the motivation of personal vengeance. By asking them to turn the other cheek, Jesus meant that His disciples should be motivated by love and a desire for the redemption and forgiveness of offenders—even when opposing their actions.

Hi Carmena,
I'd like to talk about this a bit at a time so I don't get lost.
So Jesus tells his disciples to their faces man to man ..;
Matthew 5:39 "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

.. and Paul's takeaway from that is;
Acts 23:1-3
At this the high priest Ananias ordered those standing near Paul to strike him on the mouth. 3 Then Paul said to him, “God will strike you, you whitewashed wall! You sit there to judge me according to the law, yet you yourself violate the law by commanding that I be struck!”

.. doesn't sound to me at all that Paul is turning the other cheek, sounds like as you said Paul is resisting evil.

IF things were lining up, Paul would have used this as a way to reinforce what Jesus said rather than going his own route and calling down God's vengeance on the guy when Jesus had specifically to his face told him different. Rather than solidify my faith in what the apostles say, it makes me question if they are giving us what they are comfortable with, rather than what they were told.

I really hope the Lord comes back soon. I have this feeling he's going to have a lot to say about what he wanted us to know versus whats being put in front of us.

Thanks for sharing, I do consider it all over and over, I have a thick skull I"m told.

kind regards,
Martin
 
Dec 30, 2018
36
2
8
#89
To put it simply,Those who resist evil will probably suffer more serious revenge,Because evil people follow the principle of eye for eye and tooth for tooth.
I understand entirely via my heart that we can love the sinner and hate the sin because there but for the Grace of God, go I.

However I am also coming to understand that not resisting evil is one of the main reasons this earth is so evil. Trying to figure out why God would simply not say "love the sinner but kick sin's ass" rather than all this round about you tell me your guess and I'll tell you mine and we'll agree to disagree stuff.

The God I know is infallible and I am created in his image. So there most certainly is logic to be found, but alot of this seems illogical so far to me.

kind regards,
Martin
 

Carmena

New member
Feb 18, 2021
2
1
1
#90
Hi Carmena,
I'd like to talk about this a bit at a time so I don't get lost.
So Jesus tells his disciples to their faces man to man ..;
Matthew 5:39 "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

.. and Paul's takeaway from that is;
Acts 23:1-3
At this the high priest Ananias ordered those standing near Paul to strike him on the mouth. 3 Then Paul said to him, “God will strike you, you whitewashed wall! You sit there to judge me according to the law, yet you yourself violate the law by commanding that I be struck!”

.. doesn't sound to me at all that Paul is turning the other cheek, sounds like as you said Paul is resisting evil.

IF things were lining up, Paul would have used this as a way to reinforce what Jesus said rather than going his own route and calling down God's vengeance on the guy when Jesus had specifically to his face told him different. Rather than solidify my faith in what the apostles say, it makes me question if they are giving us what they are comfortable with, rather than what they were told.

I really hope the Lord comes back soon. I have this feeling he's going to have a lot to say about what he wanted us to know versus whats being put in front of us.

Thanks for sharing, I do consider it all over and over, I have a thick skull I"m told.

kind regards,
Martin
God will bring you clarity, he is faithful!
 
Dec 30, 2018
36
2
8
#91
Another way of understanding our Lords words could be that the law only permitted punishment to go so far, but if it went beyond that, not to resist it.
One things for sure, no two of us seem to agree that there is an indisputably right answer, but instead some comfortable, and some uncomfortable, opinions on what it may mean in a variety of differing circumstances.

thanks for contributing
all of our thoughts are worth considering in the search for truth
kind regards,
Martin
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
1,529
623
113
#92
One things for sure, no two of us seem to agree that there is an indisputably right answer, but instead some comfortable, and some uncomfortable, opinions on what it may mean in a variety of differing circumstances.

thanks for contributing
all of our thoughts are worth considering in the search for truth
kind regards,
Martin
Well,
I'm sure of one thing Martin. The condemnation of our Lord was evil, but he didn't resist it.