meaning of MAKE EVERY EFFORT (or strive) to enter in through the narrow gate.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,769
3,678
113
In Luke 13:24 Jesus said to MAKE EVERY EFFORT (or strive) to enter in through the narrow gate. The Greek verb for "strive" means to agonize. So I'm wondering what "MAKE EVERY EFFORT" (or agonize) means to y'all. This has been on my mind for weeks. I'd love your input.
I believe Jesus is setting them up to teach them, that no matter how much striving and agonizing, it won't be perfect enough to enter His Kingdom. It takes faith in the Perfect Sinless One alone.

Titus 3:5 (KJV) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

If there is any striving, it would lie in not trusting in self or good works, but in Jesus alone.
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
972
276
63
Pacific NW USA
John 15:16, 19 NKJV - "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you." ... 19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you."

Because you were Chosen by God, @randyk - can you say that you are hated, just as Jesus states will be the case for His True Believers? I am 100% hated by my family (I mean, 100%) and all former friends have rejected me because of my Holy Transformation and who I have become in Christ. Has this happened to you, yet?

Luke 12:51-53 NKJV - "Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. "For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three. "Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."

If we do not reflect what is described as a True Christian, or a True Jew, then we should be quaking in our boots.
I don't quake in my boots, regardless. But I truly have compassion for you, largely because I've gone through the same thing as you do. Many years ago God convicted me to tell my pagan friends that I'm re-committing to Christianity and now living *only* for Jesus.

I knew I would lose my girlfriends my guy friends, and any support I might need from the "world." I lost jobs, I lost friends, and I lost family members. And I became unpopular by all, due to the fact my convictions always came across to them as claiming exclusive privilege, boasting, or judgmentalism. I realized that I had a lifetime ahead of me of serving the Lord alone, and putting favor from people 2nd.

I don't believe God's election of me cancels out my choices. I chose Christ because he first chose me. I'm responding to his irresistable call on my life, and doing so freely and willfully. And so, I "strive" to do the right thing, knowing I can also choose the wrong thing. Still, my salvation is secure, I can always be forgiven--I just need to strive to always be in the Lord's favor.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
I don't quake in my boots, regardless. But I truly have compassion for you, largely because I've gone through the same thing as you do. Many years ago God convicted me to tell my pagan friends that I'm re-committing to Christianity and now living *only* for Jesus.

I knew I would lose my girlfriends my guy friends, and any support I might need from the "world." I lost jobs, I lost friends, and I lost family members. And I became unpopular by all, due to the fact my convictions always came across to them as claiming exclusive privilege, boasting, or judgmentalism. I realized that I had a lifetime ahead of me of serving the Lord alone, and putting favor from people 2nd.

I don't believe God's election of me cancels out my choices. I chose Christ because He first chose me. I'm responding to his irresistible call on my life, and doing so freely and willfully. And so, I "strive" to do the right thing, knowing I can also choose the wrong thing. Still, my salvation is secure, I can always be forgiven--I just need to strive to always be in the Lord's favor.
What an awesome, AWESOME testimony. You just made my day! :D
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
972
276
63
Pacific NW USA

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
John the Baptist leapt in his mother's womb when Elizabeth drew near to Mary. Your response is making me jump! ;)
Oh man . . . you're getting me all fired up! What you've just quoted is some very important Scripture. :D
 
This is for JohnRH and 2ndTimG. Instead of travelling through heretical jungles and cultish blind alleys, they should meditate upon this profound and yet lucid observation.

“It is absolutely important for the believer to recognize the two great facts which Paul develops concerning Christ’s work on the cross:
First, His blood shed for us in expiation of our guilt. Considering this, one always thinks of the righteous claims of God’s throne against us, and of their being satisfied, fully met, by Christ’s shed blood; and of our being thus brought nigh to God.

“Second, Our death with Christ, as “made sin for us.” Because of our condition of sinfulness, as connected with Adam, and thus “in the flesh,” we died with Christ. When we believed upon Him, Christ became our Adam, and God dated our history back to Calvary, and commanded us to reckon ourselves dead to sin because we died with Him federally,—thus our history in Adam was ended before God: so that He plainly says to us, “Ye are not in flesh”—where once we were: Chapters 8:9 and 7:5. Compare Eph. 2:1-3.

“Now, in Chapter 8.3, God goes more explicitly into having Christ identified with us, made to become sin on our behalf, our old man crucified with Him. It was that God might thus condemn sin in the flesh, dealing with it judicially: as connected potentially with the whole human race, and actually with believers.

“When Adam sinned, his federal relationship involved all his posterity in condemnation (5:18, 19), but he also “begat a son in His own likeness.” ALL since Adam have participated in the fallen nature of Adam. “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one.” “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.” “We [now believers] were by nature children of wrath.”

“Now, human thoughts and philosophies, being under, and recognizing, this proneness to evil, and referring it to the body as the conscious abode of sin and source of sin’s lusts and temptations, have praised a disembodied state as the only desirable one. Even Christians who ought to know better, have regarded a disembodied spiritual state as their hope: “This robe of flesh I’ll drop, and rise,” etc. “Modernists” today, generally,—as unbelievers in all periods, deny the resurrection of the material body.

“But in Romans 8:3 God tells us that sin as connected with flesh has been condemned, dealt with; although it has not yet been removed. Some pious and very earnest people have spoken of and sought after “eradication of the sin-principle from the body.” But the redemption of the body lies in the future, at Christ’s coming. Meanwhile, “We that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened; not for that we would be unclothed, [disembodied spirits] but that we would be clothed upon . . . with our habitation which is from Heaven” (our glorified bodies at Christ’s coming): “that what is mortal may be swallowed up of life” (II Cor. 5:4).

“But the foundation both for the resurrection of the sleeping saints when Christ comes, and for the changing of living believers, lies here in Romans 8:3: sin has been condemned as connected with human flesh. This gives God, speaking reverently, the righteous right to transform and catch up into glory the bodies of His saints.

“It also gives the Risen Christ the glorious right to live in these bodies of ours while they are on earth; and to walk in us, therefore, daily, in resurrection victory! The only condition of such victorious life, is that we ourselves walk by that indwelling Spirit which has been given to us.

“Again, speaking reverently, the Spirit has no commission in this dispensation to go beyond the work done by our Lord on the cross. But that work on the cross was perfect, and far-reaching indeed. Not only did Christ there put away our guilt before God by His blood, but there our old man was crucified with Him: sin was condemned as having any connection with human flesh!”

If they reject this, I would say they have rejected Christ! This is especially for 2Tim, who propounds false doctrines in blatant fashion on this site.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
If they reject this, I would say they have rejected Christ! This is especially for 2Tim, who propounds false doctrines in blatant fashion on this site.
Say what? If you misunderstand me, how do we instantly equate it to "false doctrines"?

Perhaps if you took the cotton out of your ears and placed it into your mouth . . . you would understand me a with even a grain of accuracy. Maybe?
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
This is for JohnRH and 2ndTimG. Instead of travelling through heretical jungles and cultish blind alleys, they should meditate upon this profound and yet lucid observation.

“It is absolutely important for the believer to recognize the two great facts which Paul develops concerning Christ’s work on the cross:
First, His blood shed for us in expiation of our guilt. Considering this, one always thinks of the righteous claims of God’s throne against us, and of their being satisfied, fully met, by Christ’s shed blood; and of our being thus brought nigh to God.

“Second, Our death with Christ, as “made sin for us.” Because of our condition of sinfulness, as connected with Adam, and thus “in the flesh,” we died with Christ. When we believed upon Him, Christ became our Adam, and God dated our history back to Calvary, and commanded us to reckon ourselves dead to sin because we died with Him federally,—thus our history in Adam was ended before God: so that He plainly says to us, “Ye are not in flesh”—where once we were: Chapters 8:9 and 7:5. Compare Eph. 2:1-3.

“Now, in Chapter 8.3, God goes more explicitly into having Christ identified with us, made to become sin on our behalf, our old man crucified with Him. It was that God might thus condemn sin in the flesh, dealing with it judicially: as connected potentially with the whole human race, and actually with believers.

“When Adam sinned, his federal relationship involved all his posterity in condemnation (5:18, 19), but he also “begat a son in His own likeness.” ALL since Adam have participated in the fallen nature of Adam. “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one.” “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.” “We [now believers] were by nature children of wrath.”

“Now, human thoughts and philosophies, being under, and recognizing, this proneness to evil, and referring it to the body as the conscious abode of sin and source of sin’s lusts and temptations, have praised a disembodied state as the only desirable one. Even Christians who ought to know better, have regarded a disembodied spiritual state as their hope: “This robe of flesh I’ll drop, and rise,” etc. “Modernists” today, generally,—as unbelievers in all periods, deny the resurrection of the material body.

“But in Romans 8:3 God tells us that sin as connected with flesh has been condemned, dealt with; although it has not yet been removed. Some pious and very earnest people have spoken of and sought after “eradication of the sin-principle from the body.” But the redemption of the body lies in the future, at Christ’s coming. Meanwhile, “We that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened; not for that we would be unclothed, [disembodied spirits] but that we would be clothed upon . . . with our habitation which is from Heaven” (our glorified bodies at Christ’s coming): “that what is mortal may be swallowed up of life” (II Cor. 5:4).

“But the foundation both for the resurrection of the sleeping saints when Christ comes, and for the changing of living believers, lies here in Romans 8:3: sin has been condemned as connected with human flesh. This gives God, speaking reverently, the righteous right to transform and catch up into glory the bodies of His saints.

“It also gives the Risen Christ the glorious right to live in these bodies of ours while they are on earth; and to walk in us, therefore, daily, in resurrection victory! The only condition of such victorious life, is that we ourselves walk by that indwelling Spirit which has been given to us.

“Again, speaking reverently, the Spirit has no commission in this dispensation to go beyond the work done by our Lord on the cross. But that work on the cross was perfect, and far-reaching indeed. Not only did Christ there put away our guilt before God by His blood, but there our old man was crucified with Him: sin was condemned as having any connection with human flesh!”

If they reject this, I would say they have rejected Christ! This is especially for 2Tim, who propounds false doctrines in a blatant fashion on this site.
By the way, if you would, or could . . . please tell us all what is the most incredible, blatant, heretical thing I have ever taught? Just give us the worst one . . . since you make it seem that there are so many of which to draw from (should be quite easy).

Looking forward to it. :)
 
I have written nine paragraphs starting with “It is absolutely important....” and ending with the para that ends “any connection with human flesh”. Kindly, dear sir, respond to those nine paras, since you are so knowledgeable about Biblical doctrine.

Why are you not responding to what I have written there? Are you uncomfortable with the truth that is clearly spoken and lucidly explained?
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
I have written nine paragraphs starting with “It is absolutely important....” and ending with the para that ends “any connection with human flesh”. Kindly, dear sir, respond to those nine paras, since you are so knowledgeable about Biblical doctrine.

Why are you not responding to what I have written there? Are you uncomfortable with the truth that is clearly spoken and lucidly explained?
I read nearly all of it . . . I had, nor do have, any idea of what you're going on about. Sorry, but the things going on in my life are much bigger than your horrific attitude. And it is because of your attitude, that I don't take you seriously.

And as for being intimidated or uncomfortable by anything you've written . . . woo . . . I'm shakin' in my boots. I'll tell you why I have utterly no fear or concern of you, and it's this . . . God does not require me. That's right, the Lord does not require me for anything, therefore I have no need to impress you, nor be impressed by you. So you can come at me all you want, I dun't care. I have cancer, and that's just the tip of the iceberg, so unless you think that you're greater than the death of cancer . . . go for it.

I'll give you another chance at showing this forum that you've been washed with Holy Water, given a New Heart, and a New Spirit . . . and you can demonstrate this by fulfilling the greatest commandment of all, which is to Love. How you present yourself to us, and to the Lord (as if you didn't realize that He knows your Heart), is totally on you. I have nothing to do with it.

I hope you get better soon. I mean it.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NKJV - "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them."
 
I read nearly all of it . . . I had, nor do have, any idea of what you're going on about. Sorry, but the things going on in my life are much bigger than your horrific attitude. And it is because of your attitude, that I don't take you seriously.

And as for being intimidated or uncomfortable by anything you've written . . . woo . . . I'm shakin' in my boots. I'll tell you why I have utterly no fear or concern of you, and it's this . . . God does not require me. That's right, the Lord does not require me for anything, therefore I have no need to impress you, nor be impressed by you. So you can come at me all you want, I dun't care. I have cancer, and that's just the tip of the iceberg, so unless you think that you're greater than the death of cancer . . . go for it.

I'll give you another chance at showing this forum that you've been washed with Holy Water, given a New Heart, and a New Spirit . . . and you can demonstrate this by fulfilling the greatest commandment of all, which is to Love. How you present yourself to us, and to the Lord (as if you didn't realize that He knows your Heart), is totally on you. I have nothing to do with it.

I hope you get better soon. I mean it.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NKJV - "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them."
I am sorry to have offended you, but I am very sensitive regarding 'sound Biblical doctrine'. I myself was trapped by false doctrines for 18 years! And even after I was born again, by the great mercy of God, I distinctly remember an attempt made by Calvinists to straitjacket me with their rigid TULIP doctrine. Since you have told me about your physical condition, I shall certainly remember you in prayer. The Lord Jesus Christ is the God of the Impossible. Psalm 30.2, Psalm 50.15, Jas 5.15.

I hope we will be reconciled here and now on this site. Let us forgive and forget!

And P.S. The sin nature or flesh in the believer is NOT eradicated.

God's blessing and healing be granted to you! In Jesus' Name. Amen!
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
I am sorry to have offended you, but I am very sensitive regarding 'sound Biblical doctrine'. I myself was trapped by false doctrines for 18 years! And even after I was born again, by the great mercy of God, I distinctly remember an attempt made by Calvinists to straitjacket me with their rigid TULIP doctrine. Since you have told me about your physical condition, I shall certainly remember you in prayer. The Lord Jesus Christ is the God of the Impossible. Psalm 30.2, Psalm 50.15, Jas 5.15.

I hope we will be reconciled here and now on this site. Let us forgive and forget!

And P.S. The sin nature or flesh in the believer is NOT eradicated.

God's blessing and healing be granted to you! In Jesus' Name. Amen!
I must say, I am most impressed that you're able to write what you have written. You are rare, and that means you are like very few in this world. Perhaps you belong to that thing called a "Remnant"? Perhaps you are one of the few who are not deceived? Again, I am impressed by you and my hope is that you are able to take this moment and feel good about yourself . . . I know that I would if I were you. Your response is incredibly Holy.

As for me, I am sorry that I have somehow given you the impression that I am some sort of "all knowledge" when it comes to the Bible. The Truth is, is that I'm telling you that I am no such thing. In fact, I know very little. I want you to know that I have felt the Raw, Almighty Power of God in a most incredible way. If I had felt more of this Peace and Love, something would have happened to my physical body. It was absolutely mind-shattering. It was beautiful. One thing that I took away from that experience is humility. I heard no audibles nor did I see any visions, but somehow, the Lord stamped it into me a most puzzling message, and as you know, it was "I do not require you."

Charish . . . I am humbled, and I am low. I begin each day this way and I end each day this way. I am nothing. I am nobody. This is what happens to a person when they feel the Power that created all that is. We realize that each breath that we take, it is by the Power and ability of the Lord. What this means, as it relates to what you have written previously, is that I am open to everything a person has to say, but where I draw the line is when it comes to attitude. When people come at me with anger of any variety, it reminds me of when I was being molested by my boyscout master . . . and I really would rather not think about such things. But, and make no mistake about it, I would love to speak with you, or anyone in the entire would about what it is that they believe and why, but again, if the way that I am being spoken to reminds me of what I felt like as a child being molested by a creepy man . . . I'd rather not talk at all. And so that's what I do. It seems that you've read much of what I've written, and if that is true, you might then testify that on a regular basis, instead of arguing with people, I humbly step back with a simple, "Okie Doke" and walk away. I have no desire to enter into argument, but only discussion.

You know, people are going through a lot in this world and we need to think about that. I've conducted a funeral service or two, and know that we need to be aware that things are happing in peoples lives that we're just not aware of. We also need to be aware that there are some in this world, where if "just one more person comes at me, Imna kill myself." You don't want to be the person . . . not from the Power that I felt. I've had to keep helping a man off the ledge of dying because of how others were causing him to feel. It's hard work, but I wouldn't have to complete that work if others would learn that they are not allowed to effect the conscience of another human being, through belittling, berating, or any other form of abuse where the intention is to cause a person to change . . . to become like, or think like, the abuser.

When we are weak and insecure, we lash out others with the intentions of causing change, of some sort, in the person whom we are harming. If our words and behaviors are causing others to think poorly of themselves, well, we just don't have that right. If we are weak and insecure, and if those weaknesses and insecurities are hurting others, we all must know that we don't have the right to be weak and insecure. We are all obligated to be strong and confident, the kind of man and woman that doesn't feel the need to exercise "dog eat dog" mentality, or to always try to get the edge on another person. Life is more than trying to get to the next rung of the latter . . . so much more. We are to be kind to each other, for I promise you this . . . think of that one person in your life that has died and is no longer here, the one you loved more than anyone. I guarantee you that if you could speak to that person, they would likely tell you to just be kind to each other. Just be kind. It is so easy. Just be kind. It takes so much less effort and energy to be happy, peaceful, and gentle. It is an easy way to live. Just be kind. Just be kind.

So my challenge to you is to continue to change, for in by doing so, you can know with full assurance, that you belong to that very important group called, "Remnant." You will know that you belong to the Remnant by the Love that comes out of you from a Holy Source that is not of yourself. Again, you did what few ever do . . . you had the Heart to do the right thing. I have huge respect for you. :)
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
683
330
63
This is for JohnRH and 2ndTimG. Instead of travelling through heretical jungles and cultish blind alleys, they should ...

... If they reject this, I would say they have rejected Christ! ...
There is no 'they'. Your slander toward me is unwarranted.
 
I must say, I am most impressed that you're able to write what you have written. You are rare, and that means you are like very few in this world. Perhaps you belong to that thing called a "Remnant"? Perhaps you are one of the few who are not deceived? Again, I am impressed by you and my hope is that you are able to take this moment and feel good about yourself . . . I know that I would if I were you. Your response is incredibly Holy.

As for me, I am sorry that I have somehow given you the impression that I am some sort of "all knowledge" when it comes to the Bible. The Truth is, is that I'm telling you that I am no such thing. In fact, I know very little. I want you to know that I have felt the Raw, Almighty Power of God in a most incredible way. If I had felt more of this Peace and Love, something would have happened to my physical body. It was absolutely mind-shattering. It was beautiful. One thing that I took away from that experience is humility. I heard no audibles nor did I see any visions, but somehow, the Lord stamped it into me a most puzzling message, and as you know, it was "I do not require you."

Charish . . . I am humbled, and I am low. I begin each day this way and I end each day this way. I am nothing. I am nobody. This is what happens to a person when they feel the Power that created all that is. We realize that each breath that we take, it is by the Power and ability of the Lord. What this means, as it relates to what you have written previously, is that I am open to everything a person has to say, but where I draw the line is when it comes to attitude. When people come at me with anger of any variety, it reminds me of when I was being molested by my boyscout master . . . and I really would rather not think about such things. But, and make no mistake about it, I would love to speak with you, or anyone in the entire would about what it is that they believe and why, but again, if the way that I am being spoken to reminds me of what I felt like as a child being molested by a creepy man . . . I'd rather not talk at all. And so that's what I do. It seems that you've read much of what I've written, and if that is true, you might then testify that on a regular basis, instead of arguing with people, I humbly step back with a simple, "Okie Doke" and walk away. I have no desire to enter into argument, but only discussion.

You know, people are going through a lot in this world and we need to think about that. I've conducted a funeral service or two, and know that we need to be aware that things are happing in peoples lives that we're just not aware of. We also need to be aware that there are some in this world, where if "just one more person comes at me, Imna kill myself." You don't want to be the person . . . not from the Power that I felt. I've had to keep helping a man off the ledge of dying because of how others were causing him to feel. It's hard work, but I wouldn't have to complete that work if others would learn that they are not allowed to effect the conscience of another human being, through belittling, berating, or any other form of abuse where the intention is to cause a person to change . . . to become like, or think like, the abuser.

When we are weak and insecure, we lash out others with the intentions of causing change, of some sort, in the person whom we are harming. If our words and behaviors are causing others to think poorly of themselves, well, we just don't have that right. If we are weak and insecure, and if those weaknesses and insecurities are hurting others, we all must know that we don't have the right to be weak and insecure. We are all obligated to be strong and confident, the kind of man and woman that doesn't feel the need to exercise "dog eat dog" mentality, or to always try to get the edge on another person. Life is more than trying to get to the next rung of the latter . . . so much more. We are to be kind to each other, for I promise you this . . . think of that one person in your life that has died and is no longer here, the one you loved more than anyone. I guarantee you that if you could speak to that person, they would likely tell you to just be kind to each other. Just be kind. It is so easy. Just be kind. It takes so much less effort and energy to be happy, peaceful, and gentle. It is an easy way to live. Just be kind. Just be kind.

So my challenge to you is to continue to change, for in by doing so, you can know with full assurance, that you belong to that very important group called, "Remnant." You will know that you belong to the Remnant by the Love that comes out of you from a Holy Source that is not of yourself. Again, you did what few ever do . . . you had the Heart to do the right thing. I have huge respect for you. :)
It is difficult to respond to all that you have written. I sincerely apologize for the grief and hurt that I have caused you. I should never get into 'doctrinal discussions' again! The Holy Spirit convicted me of my brashness and arrogance and utter folly! No more debates, no more arguments! (Only shows that the 'old man' is still 'alive' in me - though, of course, he was crucified on the Cross, Rom 6, etc). You have been very gracious to reply at length in your five paragraphs above. I will continue to remember you, and I pray that God will grant you total healing! Blessings to you, my dear brother in Christ!
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
It is difficult to respond to all that you have written. I sincerely apologize for the grief and hurt that I have caused you. I should never get into 'doctrinal discussions' again! The Holy Spirit convicted me of my brashness and arrogance and utter folly! No more debates, no more arguments! (Only shows that the 'old man' is still 'alive' in me - though, of course, he was crucified on the Cross, Rom 6, etc). You have been very gracious to reply at length in your five paragraphs above. I will continue to remember you, and I pray that God will grant you total healing! Blessings to you, my dear brother in Christ!
My goodness . . . you should see the goosebumps that have overtaken my body. I am so utterly proud of you . . . I can't hardly contain myself! Believe me . . . I am nothing special, but you are!

I hope that you will continue down this peaceful path, and the reason is simple . . . it means that you are a True Child of God. That is all that matters to me. You are who and what is important here . . . not me.

Thank you very kindly for your apology, but I never really needed one. You did not hurt me at all . . . I am getting old with lots of issues in this life, and because of them, I am learning to only fight battles that are really important. I haven't always been like this, and even fail at times. But I was actually very happy with the heart that God gave me in our communications . . . it has been a very long battle for me in this life, which is a life filled with tons and tons of little battles. At age fourteen, just months after my parents found out that I had been sexually abused by my boy scout master, they paid the gay piano player at church to take me . . . and boy was he ready to do that! I later found out that he was masturbating while he thought about me in his bed. He was also my Sunday school teacher. Experiences such as these cause folks like me to fight . . . always fighting and never turning away. I grew up thinking that if I could be so horrible and have my mistakes exploited by so many people, then how much more should I expose the problems and guilt of others. Simply put, my life has sucked because of how much I fought to be heard, accepted, and loved.

So I want you to understand that you are helping me. You have become one of the most amazing examples that I have seen at this, or any other forum. You're not alone . . . which is another reason for why I cannot be angry or upset with you, for I too, can be guilty. And I too must continue to learn to be as graceful and humble as was perhaps Moses. I want to be like Moses in his quiet, but Power way. You have made yourself a fine example for me to follow, and I really appreciate that . . . a . . . lot!

Thank you, good sir.

And by the way, it's ok if you don't believe the Sin Nature is cut out and removed. I am often wrong about the Bible, and that is completely unacceptable for me. I only want the Truth, and I realize that I am not the source of this Truth. All of you hold Truths that I may or may not be aware of, but one thing is sure, and it is that I want to know what everyone else knows. Sometimes the Lord sends people to teach us the things that we're supposed to know. I am like a sponge . . . I want to know what everyone believes, meaning that I am willing to speak with any human alive about their beliefs and ideologies. For example, can you imagine talking to Adolf Hitler about his belief system? Or, what about Gary Ridgeway, who used to preach the Gospel at the Kenworth Trucking plant, and then would turn to his truck and have sex with the dead body inside of the truck canopy? Certainly, we couldn't agree with much of their doctrine, but it would be fascinating to realize what it is that bops around in their minds.

I believe in you . . . and that's because I feel, conclusively, that the Lord has you in His Right Hand of Salvation.

May your day be utterly perfect!
 

Ogom

Active member
Aug 22, 2020
385
100
43
ogom.co
I never said anything of the sort . I said that verse is for Israel in the future . Now its for us in the sense of we need to understand about Israel and such .

but we (you/me) don't decide what the Bible means -- for everyone. the authors who wrote the words down knew their meanings, the intents and purposes perhaps of and/or the Holy Spirit does, but we don't, down here, far removed in history -- each seeing different things in the words and verses of the Bible and each finding our own way though and/or with the help of others thoughts and in understandings of the verses, hopefully with the help of the Spirit of God, but not knowing necessarily if another always is also helped by the Spirit of God at any step or understanding of The Way -- wherever they are on the path of spiritual learning.
 

Ogom

Active member
Aug 22, 2020
385
100
43
ogom.co
///

if we shut ourselves down from any part of/// This is an odd thing to say ,in light of what I said ? I'd say some people are shutting themselves out from what the intention of the Holy Spirit s intention in how were supposed to understand information that the bible is saying .


1. frustrate not the Spirit of God as much as we are able, and frustrate it not in others.

2. follow the Spirit, learn from it/Christ and from others (body of Christ).

3. help, if, when we can to raise them (others) up in Christ,

4. not cut off Bible verses from other's use (through our teachings and words) and the Spirit's also from being able to help them (others)--

5. wherever they are at in their walk with Christ at the moment, in this point in time in their life.



#13, #14