Mid-trib

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glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
314
124
43
#1
Matt 16:16-19 And Simon Peter answered and said, thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, blessed art thou Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

That this includes all of the body of Christ and not just Peter is seen in Matt 18:18,19 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye bind upon the earth shall be bound in heaven. And whatsoever ye loose upon the earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

See also Lu 10:17-20 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold I give you power to tread upon serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject to you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

Now regarding the evil one's revealing of himself to the world, we see in 2 Thes 2: 3-8 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

So it is the faithful that have authority over all the power of the enemy and who hinder the evil one from revealing himself to the world in the abomination of desolation at the middle of the great tribulation. Then after being caught up in the air, the church will be taken out of the evil one's way; and then he will reveal himself.

And btw; When the burning mountain impacts with the earth and takes 1/3 of the people, and 1/3 of the ships, and pollutes 1/3 of the rivers; it will not be from the King of the North(Russia), nor from the King of the South(North Africa), nor from the King of the East(China), and neither from the King of the West(Europe)...

Maranatha!!!
 

Enoch987

Senior Member
Jul 13, 2017
317
15
18
#2
You have made good points but you assume that we can connect the dots to mid trib rapture. That is for you to do.
Believers have dominion until the man of sin appears? Pull back to give us the overview of your belief.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#3
only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Something to ponder.....IF the Lord's church is the BRIDE of Christ, why would it be identified with the MASCULINE PERSONAL PRONOUN HE........last time I checked a BRIDE to be MARRIED to a MAN is a SHE......NOT a HE

POST TRIBULATION/PRE-WRATH ingathering/change at the 7th trump of Revelation
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,521
12,963
113
#6
Nice try wrong answer........
Not at all. Only the Holy Spirit can be the divine Restrainer of Satan on earth, and it is only when He is "taken out of the way" that Satan and the Antichrist can be allowed to have total control and domination of the inhabitants of the earth for 3 1/ years (Rev 13).

Since the Church (born again Christians) is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, the Resurrection/Rapture also occurs when the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#7
Not at all. Only the Holy Spirit can be the divine Restrainer of Satan on earth, and it is only when He is "taken out of the way" that Satan and the Antichrist can be allowed to have total control and domination of the inhabitants of the earth for 3 1/ years (Rev 13).

Since the Church (born again Christians) is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, the Resurrection/Rapture also occurs when the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way.
Like I said, nice try, wrong answer and just the modern regurgitated fallacy.......

Satan is not restrained...he as a roaring lion walks about seeking whom he may devour and if you took time to study History you would see he has been attempting to bring about the man of sin and himself worshiped in a man as god from day one...it has nothing to do with the supposed false, fake, imminent return and the church going POOF and disappearing.....

Translate the verse from the Greek......then study it carefully....especially the words letteth and let.....and just for grins...the Spirit is classified as Neuter in Greek and not masculine.....

and for the record...show me the verse which states the underlined and bolded in the bible.....
 

Enoch987

Senior Member
Jul 13, 2017
317
15
18
#8
Interesting discussion. The Restrainer is not named. Could it be Michael the archangel? He restrained the prince of Persia in Daniel 10. ("No, it can't be Michael because the JW's think he is Jesus" could be a hidden bias.) Also Revelation 12 may support the Michael theory. No, I am not a JW. Daniel's lord is not Michael. I think Daniel's lord is Jesus even though he fought the Prince of Persia to a draw. Remember Israel was exiled at that time. What happens in heaven, happens on earth. Counter argument, Daniel's lord could not be Jesus because Jesus is God and God has power over the prince of Persia.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,521
12,963
113
#9
and for the record...show me the verse which states the underlined and bolded in the bible.....
Since you are looking for textbook answers, you will not find them.

However if you are searching for Bible truth, it is plain as day that God is the only one who can restrain Satan. Even Michael the Archangel would not rebuke him but said "The Lord rebuke thee".

Please note how Satan was restrained:

And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD. (Job 1:12)

But put forth thine hand now [said Satan], and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. (Job 2:5,6)

Did Satan obey both these commandments? Absolutely.

The Holy Spirit is presently restraining Satan from going beyond certain limits in spite of His evil intentions. But there will come a time when the Holy Spirit and the Church will be taken up to Heaven, and then Satan will take absolute control of this earth for 3 1/2 years.

REVELATION 13
4 And they worshipped the dragon [SATAN] which gave power unto the beast [THE ANTICHRIST]: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
[42 months = 3 1/2 years]

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
[TOTAL CONTROL]

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#10
Since you are looking for textbook answers, you will not find them.

However if you are searching for Bible truth, it is plain as day that God is the only one who can restrain Satan. Even Michael the Archangel would not rebuke him but said "The Lord rebuke thee".

Please note how Satan was restrained:

And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD. (Job 1:12)
But put forth thine hand now [said Satan], and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. (Job 2:5,6)

Did Satan obey both these commandments? Absolutely.

The Holy Spirit is presently restraining Satan from going beyond certain limits in spite of His evil intentions. But there will come a time when the Holy Spirit and the Church will be taken up to Heaven, and then Satan will take absolute control of this earth for 3 1/2 years.

REVELATION 13
4 And they worshipped the dragon [SATAN] which gave power unto the beast [THE ANTICHRIST]: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. [42 months = 3 1/2 years]

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. [TOTAL CONTROL]

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Now your conflating words.....REBUKE with RESTRAIN......the only thing they have in common is they both start with an R........show me a verse that states the Holy Spirit will be taken up......and if the spirit convinces the world of sin and leads one into the truth...how are people saved during the tribulation period if the Holy Spirit is gone........
 

Paul1979

New member
Jun 19, 2018
27
2
3
#11
This is a reference to God the Holy Spirit (who is masculine).
The "Restrainer" is masculine, that is because it is a man.

That man was known as John of Giscala or John Levi. He led the revolt against Rome. The War lasted 7 years, 66-73 CE, and which halfway through the revolt, the Temple, and the City was destroyed. 3 1/2 years into the war. There is your so-called midtrib. John Levi was the person that people today refer to as AntiChrist.

If one actually studied this event, you will see that this is what the bible was referring to.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,521
12,963
113
#12
and if the spirit convinces the world of sin and leads one into the truth...how are people saved during the tribulation period if the Holy Spirit is gone........
How were people saved before Pentecost? By grace through faith (Hebrew 11).

The Holy Spirit is for the Church Age. Once the Church is taken up, so is the Holy Spirit. Also there is a limit to the number of Gentiles who will enter into the Church -- the Body of Christ. This is called "the fulness of the Gentiles in Rom 11:25.
 
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pjharrison

Guest
#13
How were people saved before Pentecost? By grace through faith (Hebrew 11).

The Holy Spirit is for the Church Age. Once the Church is taken up, so is the Holy Spirit. Also there is a limit to the number of Gentiles who will enter into the Church -- the Body of Christ. This is called "the fulness of the Gentiles in Rom 11:25.
Revelations say that the beast will make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And all upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
83
#14
The "Restrainer" is masculine, that is because it is a man.

That man was known as John of Giscala or John Levi. He led the revolt against Rome. The War lasted 7 years, 66-73 CE, and which halfway through the revolt, the Temple, and the City was destroyed. 3 1/2 years into the war. There is your so-called midtrib. John Levi was the person that people today refer to as AntiChrist.

If one actually studied this event, you will see that this is what the bible was referring to.
Welcome to the forum's newest Preterist! You'll find a few others who believe like you.

I'm not one of them. :)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#16
How were people saved before Pentecost? By grace through faith (Hebrew 11).

The Holy Spirit is for the Church Age. Once the Church is taken up, so is the Holy Spirit. Also there is a limit to the number of Gentiles who will enter into the Church -- the Body of Christ. This is called "the fulness of the Gentiles in Rom 11:25.
HAHAHAHAHHAH wow man......you got a lot to learn if you believe that....
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
314
124
43
#17
The temple in Jerusalem will have been rebuilt and the Levitical priesthood will have reinstated the temple service and the sacrifices. Salvation will still be by faith in Jesus the Messiah, but it will be a time in which the evil one will have been given the power to overcome the faithful. Every person who hasn't repented by the time of Jesus return will while they are yet standing, have their flesh consumed on their bones, the eyes in their holes, and the tongues in their mouths by the sword in Jesus' mouth.
 
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pjharrison

Guest
#18
So what are you saying?
 

Enoch987

Senior Member
Jul 13, 2017
317
15
18
#19
The "Restrainer" is masculine, that is because it is a man.

That man was known as John of Giscala or John Levi. He led the revolt against Rome. The War lasted 7 years, 66-73 CE, and which halfway through the revolt, the Temple, and the City was destroyed. 3 1/2 years into the war. There is your so-called midtrib. John Levi was the person that people today refer to as AntiChrist.

If one actually studied this event, you will see that this is what the bible was referring to.
But that wasn't 1290 to 1335 days before the resurrection of the just and the unjust. (Daniel 12)Also in Luke 23, Jesus tells women of Jerusalem of the green wood and the dry wood. "If they weep when the wood is green, how much more will they weep when the wood id dry?"
2 Peter 3 was written in Peter's name after the 7 year war centered on 70 AD.
(The disciple of Peter decided that the trib is over but the Lord didn't return, What's up with that? We have to explain.)
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
589
113
#20
Not at all. Only the Holy Spirit can be the divine Restrainer of Satan on earth, and it is only when He is "taken out of the way" that Satan and the Antichrist can be allowed to have total control and domination of the inhabitants of the earth for 3 1/ years (Rev 13).

Since the Church (born again Christians) is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, the Resurrection/Rapture also occurs when the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way.
Where does the Holy Spirit go when He is "supposedly" taken out of the way?