Missing the mark

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gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#1
You will often hear that "Sin" is missing the mark. This is true but what you don't hear often is a clear biblical view of what missing the mark means.

So what does it mean to miss the mark, what is the mark. Bible please.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
1,388
115
63
#2
Romans_3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


Romans_5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

(Rom 3:10) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:


(Rom 3:11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.


Isaiah_64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.


Missing the mark-- sin... this is not just the 'deadly seven sins'... its imperfection. We are all marred by it whether saved or no.
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
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#3
The mark is to be perfect and holy without sin completely and utterly no flaws no mistakes no sin. The thing i wonder though is that God is all knowing there is nothing beyond his knowing and he obviously knew what satan intended and he knew that in creating man there would be sin and a down fall yet he still allowed it all even though he could have easily stopped satan.

Something tells me this story goes far deeper than we can imagine it seems like this was all meant to happen. was man meant to miss the mark to show Gods power and love? were we made imperfect and lacking to show that he isn't and that he can use the weak and lacking to beat the strong? His mind is avast mystery
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,100
17,427
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#4
God's standard of holiness and righteousness.....
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
81
48
#5
The mark is to be perfect and holy without sin completely and utterly no flaws no mistakes no sin. The thing i wonder though is that God is all knowing there is nothing beyond his knowing and he obviously knew what satan intended and he knew that in creating man there would be sin and a down fall yet he still allowed it all even though he could have easily stopped satan.

Something tells me this story goes far deeper than we can imagine it seems like this was all meant to happen. was man meant to miss the mark to show Gods power and love? were we made imperfect and lacking to show that he isn't and that he can use the weak and lacking to beat the strong? His mind is avast mystery
you bring up a good point, For me Job answers some of that depth. Why did God allow Satan to do what he did to Job, He could have stopped it. The answer lies in what took place with the sons of God. Satan brought accusation not just to God but in front of the Sons of God. Now God knows Satan is a liar and a deceiver, But God knows everything. however the Sons of God do not know everything. So the only way they can be sure that God is right and Satan is wrong is by demonstration, Thus Job became that Demonstration. Revelation tells us the war began in heaven with Satan. Salvation is bigger than this earth.

God is powerful no doubt and knows all things, but in order to save beings who do not know everything He must show them the truth by demonstration. Satan as seen in Gen 3 has tricked Humanity into mistrusting God and his love. Thus only by demonstration can God show that he is what he claims to be. For the sake of all of us who don't know everything and can't read minds and motives. Thus it takes time.

I think of Paul's words here:

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

We are to do what Job did and make known the wisdom of God to those in heavenly places. Salvation is bigger than we realise and our world is not the only one on the line. It takes time even for the all powerful God to reveal the truth and it does so not because of limits on Him but because of our limitations.
 
Last edited:
Nov 22, 2015
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#6
For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. What is the glory of God? Glory means the goodness of God. Moses asked to see God's "glory" and the Lord showed him His goodness. Glory also means " the good opinion of".

Sin is not experiencing the goodness of God which is not participating in God's quality of life which is expressed in His goodness towards us. This is what "missing the mark or goal is" Missing the quality of life that is with the Father but now we have because of Christ's finished work on our behalf and as us.
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,858
678
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#7
you bring up a good point, For me Job answers some of that depth. Why did God allow Satan to do what he did to Job, He could have stopped it. The answer lies in what took place with the sons of God. Satan brought accusation not just to God but in front of the Sons of God. Now God knows Satan is a liar and a deceiver, But God knows everything. however the Sons of God do not know everything. So the only way they can be sure that God is right and Satan is wrong is by demonstration, Thus Job became that Demonstration. Revelation tells us the war began in heaven with Satan. Salvation is bigger than this earth.

God is powerful no doubt and knows all things, but in order to save beings who do not know everything He must show them the truth by demonstration. Satan as seen in Gen 3 has tricked Humanity into mistrusting God and his love. Thus only by demonstration can God show that he is what he claims to be. For the sake of all of us who don't know everything and can't read minds and motives. Thus it takes time.

I think of Paul's words here:

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

We are to do what Job did and make known the wisdom of God to those in heavenly places. Salvation is bigger than we realise and our world is not the only one on the line. It takes time even for the all powerful God to reveal the truth and it does so not because of limits on Him but because of our limitations.
That's a great way of looking at it, and it makes sense because this story is far deeper than we know even before he made the earth this story was already written and was written for a divine purpose that goes beyond showing his glory it goes deeper than salvation and as the story plays out he is showing this divine purpose for those who would seek it.

Even i myself cannot explain in words this divine purpose the beauty of it the majesty of it the brilliance and profound wonder of it is beyond my grasp of explaining and also of my understanding of it Even now i can feel my heart reaching for it and i can hear my soul crying for it and yet i don't know what it is i am seeking i only know it's something so profound and so deep that there is nothing in all of heaven he could give me that would even begin to compare to it. And when this story is finished and all is said and done all the questions and thoughts of sin and salvation will not even be a memory
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#8
That's a great way of looking at it, and it makes sense because this story is far deeper than we know even before he made the earth this story was already written and was written for a divine purpose that goes beyond showing his glory it goes deeper than salvation and as the story plays out he is showing this divine purpose for those who would seek it.

Even i myself cannot explain in words this divine purpose the beauty of it the majesty of it the brilliance and profound wonder of it is beyond my grasp of explaining and also of my understanding of it Even now i can feel my heart reaching for it and i can hear my soul crying for it and yet i don't know what it is i am seeking i only know it's something so profound and so deep that there is nothing in all of heaven he could give me that would even begin to compare to it. And when this story is finished and all is said and done all the questions and thoughts of sin and salvation will not even be a memory
Sounds to me Blain, you have already have had such an "event" occur in you! An presence of Love, so vast, and Awesome, there is NOTHING more you want, or wish, or can even begin to think, yea, even want to think of. ANY type of communicating of such an event, just detracts from this "event"! I forget who said it in the N.T., but even that detracts from it. "the peace that passeth all understanding"!

He told me, that that, was just a fingernail of His love1 He also told me "Get USED to it!"

Rest assured, Blain. It's something one NEVER forgets!
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
81
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#9
Sounds to me Blain, you have already have had such an "event" occur in you! An presence of Love, so vast, and Awesome, there is NOTHING more you want, or wish, or can even begin to think, yea, even want to think of. ANY type of communicating of such an event, just detracts from this "event"! I forget who said it in the N.T., but even that detracts from it. "the peace that passeth all understanding"!

He told me, that that, was just a fingernail of His love1 He also told me "Get USED to it!"

Rest assured, Blain. It's something one NEVER forgets!
Amen Paul puts it this way:


Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
81
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#10
I personally believe that this love can not really be explained in words, It can only be demonstrated by one who has it from God. Christ working in us.
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,858
678
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#11
Sounds to me Blain, you have already have had such an "event" occur in you! An presence of Love, so vast, and Awesome, there is NOTHING more you want, or wish, or can even begin to think, yea, even want to think of. ANY type of communicating of such an event, just detracts from this "event"! I forget who said it in the N.T., but even that detracts from it. "the peace that passeth all understanding"!

He told me, that that, was just a fingernail of His love1 He also told me "Get USED to it!"

Rest assured, Blain. It's something one NEVER forgets!
You would be correct in this as when i was first saved he and i had an intimate moment in which i have never had again, the love he poured into me was only a tiny drop and yet the beauty and richness of this love was so deep that my body could not handle it i begged him to take my life so i could be in his arms and in this love forever but he aid to me that he needed me me to be strong my strength returned to me the experience was over but ever since then his love has always been the one thing I am strongest in.

However it never stopped there that love that was poured into me was a tiny peek into his heart ever since then i have sought after that heart of his with an intense hunger and thirst I am after only the deepest of love with him i seek only the closest of bonds with him i need to know and to search that heart of his i need a kind of love and relationship with him that exceeds what anyone has ever had with him one that is just that deep and just that beautiful and amazing it''s like a fire and hunger that burns inside me that if i were to describe as best as i could the hunger and longing and love to know him and to have such a relationship with him and to have and be able to search that endless sea that is his heart would shake the universe itself.

The treasures i seek are his heart and a kind of love and relationship with him for him and for all others that no one even knew could exist not even those who walked with Jesus himself and i will never give up until his heart is mine. I actually had a dream once in which father was standing before me and he showed his heart and opened it then said search to hearts content. I have not been able to do this yet but i will not just because i believe that dream to be prophetic but because there is nothing i will do to have it i will never give up and i will burn in the very fires of hell itself to have such a thing with him.

For some being a Christian is a hobby or a way of living for others it is nothing less than an intense fiery passion
 
Apr 4, 2017
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#12
missing the mark is when God tells you not to do something and you do it anyway.....This is James 4.17 & Romans 14.23 in a nut shell...

Missing the mark is also a choice...yeah several here don't believe this either but since Eve its been proven that SIN is Chose not a devil or demon or power you are helpless against...James 1.13-16 proves this out.

Willfully sinning is the evidence of apostasy,a seared conscience and soon to be worker of iniquity.....yeah I know apostasy and iniquity does not exist under the grace only, easy believing world of the church today...but the Word says they are coming and I stick with the word..
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,858
678
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#13
missing the mark is when God tells you not to do something and you do it anyway.....This is James 4.17 & Romans 14.23 in a nut shell...

Missing the mark is also a choice...yeah several here don't believe this either but since Eve its been proven that SIN is Chose not a devil or demon or power you are helpless against...James 1.13-16 proves this out.

Willfully sinning is the evidence of apostasy,a seared conscience and soon to be worker of iniquity.....yeah I know apostasy and iniquity does not exist under the grace only, easy believing world of the church today...but the Word says they are coming and I stick with the word..
I would rather be labeled grace only and easy believing full of love peace and joy than to not be labeled that and live in fear of every sin and mistake i make and have to be good enough to be able to be with him.

I cannot stand my sin i cannot stand anything in me or about me that isn't him and yes i rest and live in his grace but i also do not see it as free ticket to sin i take responsibility for my mistakes and i apologize to him for him except it isn't out fear or because I want to be sinless it's because i care about how he feels and out love i apologize for my sins.

My problem isn't not sinning and living grace my problem is being to hard on myself and beating myself up for my screw ups when he is looking down on me with caring eyes telling me i have already been forgive and to move forward in his love and grace. People with beliefs like you assume you understand people like me you assume you understand grace and sin
 
Apr 4, 2017
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#14
I would rather be labeled grace only and easy believing full of love peace and joy than to not be labeled that and live in fear of every sin and mistake i make and have to be good enough to be able to be with him.

I cannot stand my sin i cannot stand anything in me or about me that isn't him and yes i rest and live in his grace but i also do not see it as free ticket to sin i take responsibility for my mistakes and i apologize to him for him except it isn't out fear or because I want to be sinless it's because i care about how he feels and out love i apologize for my sins.

My problem isn't not sinning and living grace my problem is being to hard on myself and beating myself up for my screw ups when he is looking down on me with caring eyes telling me i have already been forgive and to move forward in his love and grace. People with beliefs like you assume you understand people like me you assume you understand grace and sin
Boy howdy...throw out some old school words and the walls of defense and dont judge me raise up...If this bothered you that much you best take that to the throne son.
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
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#15
Boy howdy...throw out some old school words and the walls of defense and dont judge me raise up...If this bothered you that much you best take that to the throne son.
Listen i am all for not sinning but when you say something like this....Willfully sinning is the evidence of apostasy,a seared conscience and soon to be worker of iniquity. that is when i have a problem. It is not for you to decide what is in a persons heart based on your own doctrinal beliefs, it's fine if you believe what you do and live it out the best you can but for you to say something like that about people is simply wrong.

I knew a girl who was a new believer and studied under this pastor at this church i used to go he believed very firmly what you do and would constantly drill into her about willful sin, every time she screwed up and sinned even though she asked for forgiveness she felt worse and worse she never could live up to God's standards she continued to ask why she couldn't stop messing up and the pastor only kept talking about sin being a choice she wouldn't listen to me only him.

about a month later i came to visit her at her home but her mom was in tears holding a note in the note was her daughters handwriting she apparently had killed herself because she could not stop sinning no matter how hard she tried and felt that she was not worthy of God. Your whole sin is a choice doctrine killed my friend because she could not live up to standards and i apologize for my last post i was infuriated because of the severe damage this doctrine has done to my friends family and to me as well losing a close and precious friend because of a doctrine that is impossible to live up hurts very badly and in my weakness i blew up on you and i apologize for that
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
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#16
Here what the New Dictionary of Theology says.

SIN.​ "Scripture employs a variety of words to speak of sin, with meanings ranging from 'he missing of a mark or goal' or 'the break of a relationship' to 'ungodliness', 'perversion' or 'rebellion'. Yet the common theme of every biblical expression of the nature of sin is the central idea that sin is a state of our being that separates us from the holt God; biblically, sin is ultimately sin against God." By J. E. Colwell, B. D., Ph.D. in the New Dictionary of Theology, edited by Sinclair B. Ferguson, David F. Wright & J. I. Packer

Romans 3:19-20 "19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

God's righteous and holy standard, is His law.
 
Apr 4, 2017
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#17
Listen i am all for not sinning but when you say something like this....Willfully sinning is the evidence of apostasy,a seared conscience and soon to be worker of iniquity. that is when i have a problem. It is not for you to decide what is in a persons heart based on your own doctrinal beliefs, it's fine if you believe what you do and live it out the best you can but for you to say something like that about people is simply wrong.

I knew a girl who was a new believer and studied under this pastor at this church i used to go he believed very firmly what you do and would constantly drill into her about willful sin, every time she screwed up and sinned even though she asked for forgiveness she felt worse and worse she never could live up to God's standards she continued to ask why she couldn't stop messing up and the pastor only kept talking about sin being a choice she wouldn't listen to me only him.

about a month later i came to visit her at her home but her mom was in tears holding a note in the note was her daughters handwriting she apparently had killed herself because she could not stop sinning no matter how hard she tried and felt that she was not worthy of God. Your whole sin is a choice doctrine killed my friend because she could not live up to standards and i apologize for my last post i was infuriated because of the severe damage this doctrine has done to my friends family and to me as well losing a close and precious friend because of a doctrine that is impossible to live up hurts very badly and in my weakness i blew up on you and i apologize for that
First of all, I am very sorry your friend felt she had no other choice available to her. She was precious to God and she is now with Jesus....

I am not talking about being perfect or preaching condemnation and that is what you seem to think...

Let this burn into your ears and into your spirit...I will not held accountable for something I was not a direct part of.....Where was your high powered righteousness indignation when your friend was in such depression she could not escape condemnation and took her own life...did you act on any of the spiritual discernment the Holy Spirit was giving you when this was going on!?!? It seems to me you are lashing out at people but did nothing to stop this....How incredibly arrogant and immature this is......If you need your guilt purged because of this situation then go to the throne of grace and seek the grace and mercy and help you need to get over it, but do not pin the tail on my donkey ever again....you are forgiven for your moment of weakness...

Do you even understand what sin is a choice is? It is evident your former pastor was preaching something not fit for babes....He will answer for it, but the doctrine is not false it is hard to follow for those that have not spiritually matured to the point of understanding it.

God told Cain in Gen 4 he had a choice regarding murdering Abel, just as his Mom had a choice not to eat the fruit...

Titus 2.11-16 says
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, [SUP]12 [/SUP]instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, [SUP]13 [/SUP]looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.


That grace everyone is fond have talking about here also gives you your choice regarding Sin back....Saints have sinned, or will sin in the future and they do and will...but we have our choice back...

Willfull sin and apostasy is not what your friend suffered with...she was under condemnation, because some over zealous hireling was not telling her how she got her choice over sin back and how she can grow to stop sinning over and over....


I do not have the time to post what willfull sin is and how it relates to the state of apostasy, but rest assured this preacher has no clue what he was/is teaching....

People have to be fed according to their spiritual maturity and again, I am sorry for your loss, but this was not my doing ...the doctrine you say is mine comes from the word, it is the same doctrine Jesus preached and said was not his own....when you come to another level of spiritual maturity you will see it and understand it...
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
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#18
You think I did nothing to stop it? i admit that in my weakness i lashed out but i did nothing to stop it? I tried everyday to reason with her but the problem with not being a pastor is that because he was a pastor and i was not she never took my advice sadly this was a huge problem even though i tried all i could she never listened to one without authority. don't assume you know what i did and didn't do.

But willful sin? every sin is willful we have free will but because we are human we sometimes mess up
 
Apr 4, 2017
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#19
You think I did nothing to stop it? i admit that in my weakness i lashed out but i did nothing to stop it? I tried everyday to reason with her but the problem with not being a pastor is that because he was a pastor and i was not she never took my advice sadly this was a huge problem even though i tried all i could she never listened to one without authority. don't assume you know what i did and didn't do.

But willful sin? every sin is willful we have free will but because we are human we sometimes mess up
You need to study up on what willfull sin really is....

You are right I do not know what you did and did not do....I am so sorry.......Now practice what you preach....you did the very same thing to me and attempted to assume my motives....
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,858
678
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#20
You need to study up on what willfull sin really is....

You are right I do not know what you did and did not do....I am so sorry.......Now practice what you preach....you did the very same thing to me and attempted to assume my motives....
Yes I also was in the wrong assuming what you were talking about and I apologize for jumping to conclusions. It doesn't make it right but my reason for jumping for that conclusion is that what you wrote sound very similar to the group of people who often times come and preach about not sinning specifically willful sin saying how with the help of the holy spirit we can live a life without sinning and people like me who admit that we sin and slip up and cannot live a life without sinning yet because of God's grace we can continue on without condemnation are often labeled as people who live in grace and live willy nilly.

there is of course a difference in resting in his grace and taking advantage of it