My Flood Hypothesis: Definitely a Global Cataclysm!

[JC4usall]

there is a doc on netflix which explains the flood and evidence to support it. "Is Genesis History"
i have not been able to find the full doc on youtube however here is a link to a youtube channel that seems to cover some important facts.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzjPwFPxtpZTJ1dq7cAkb3g/videos

 

[Huckleberry]

No Scripture no read.

Some (much?) of what I've laid out is referenced in
scripture, and I've attempted to fill in some of the blanks.
If you're not interested in reading it, that's cool.

Seems plausible from the limited evidence we have.
I don't know how you can really prove any of it.

Well, I can't prove any of it, which is why I'm calling it a "hypothesis", rather than a "discovery".

I have studied the pre flood world dynamics. I agree wioth a fair portion of what you are putting forth.
But whats your point? Are you just making general comments, or do you have a specific agenda with something?

The point is to collect my ideas into one page and disseminate them
for thoughtful discussion and possibly to get others' feedback on my ideas.
No agenda, just dialogue.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but where did you get the idea for that lost planet from?

Even though I had this idea independently, researching showed it to be an
old idea, which is no surprise since I rarely, if ever, have an original thought.
This "theoretic" planet (I put that sarcastically in quotes because it's pretty obvious
something between Mars and Jupiter exploded) has been called Phaeton, and Vulcan.

 

[graceNpeace]

Some (much?) of what I've laid out is referenced in
scripture, and I've attempted to fill in some of the blanks.
If you're not interested in reading it, that's cool.


Well, I can't prove any of it, which is why I'm calling it a "hypothesis", rather than a "discovery".

The point is to collect my ideas into one page and disseminate them
for thoughtful discussion and possibly to get others' feedback on my ideas.
No agenda, just dialogue.


Even though I had this idea independently, researching showed it to be an
old idea, which is no surprise since I rarely, if ever, have an original thought.
This "theoretic" planet (I put that sarcastically in quotes because it's pretty obvious
something between Mars and Jupiter exploded) has been called Phaeton, and Vulcan.

I think you really do need to base your argument in Scripture.
You do need to quote Scripture and you do need to explain what it is saying.
Otherwise, you cannot expect much of a hearing from a forum that is committed to the primacy of the Word of God.

By the way, there is nothing militating against using scientific sources to back Biblical truth.
Quantum physics provides excellent evidence for the truth of Gen 1:1.

 

[Denadii]

I posted this in a different thread, but thought it deserved its own.
I also made a few spelling and typo corrections, though I'm sure I missed some.

To understand the Flood, one must understand the Earth's condition prior to it. The world is mostly covered in water now, but it was not always so. Most of the world's water used to be underground and above the atmosphere. There was a lot lot lot more land area then. Also, the Earth was not tilted on its axis as it is now. There were not four seasons in a year such as we experience.


The world was created with one main river that sprang from the ground at or near the highest point on Earth, the land called Eden. This main river flowed into the God's Garden, where it separated into four headwaters. It didn't rain in the world; everything was watered by the rivers and a mist that came out of the ground. The waters eventually went back into the Earth, and were circulated back to where they sprang forth from the ground in Eden; most of the world's water was underground at any given moment.


There was a great amount of water vapor above the atmosphere. This “canopy”, as it is generally referred to, diffused sunlight and filtered out the sun's harmful radiation. It probably compressed the atmosphere making it more oxygen rich by volume. In this world-wide “high pressure system” it was perpetually springtime. There were no storms or high winds. The canopy made the world conducive to the great size and longevity of its occupants. Real nice place to live compared to the flooded out wreck that was to come.


The Earth's crust was not then separated into “plates” like it is now. It was basically a solid shell floating on a subterranean ocean. There were no earthquakes or volcanoes. No floods, tornadoes, or typhoons.


There was a planet called Phaëton which orbited the Sun between Mars and Jupiter. It was destroyed. The cause of its destruction is unknown, but the effects are evident all over the solar system: The asteroid belt; the outer planets' rings; the devastated surfaces of bodies such as Mercury and our own moon; and the countless comets which orbit the sun. And the Great Flood.


Earth took a direct hit. The canopy was penetrated, and a giant piece, or pieces, of Phaëton landed and broke up the crust like a piece of shattering glass. The world was hit so hard that its orbit was affected. The axis was severely tilted, and began to wobbled as a spinning top would if hit with a rock. The Earth quaked and erupted on an unimaginable scale. Water was shooting out of the ground all over the place up into the stratosphere. The atmospheric temperature dropped quickly and significantly. The disrupted canopy began to condense and fall to Earth as a torrential downpour for the next forty days. The poles were covered in ice quickly and completely, and the ice extended far towards the middle latitudes.


So then the world was completely covered in water, much of it frozen, and the crust was broken up and had big empty pockets beneath it where thewater was. Naturally, the crust collapsed into those pockets and water filled the basins. As the basins collapsed, the crusts along their perimeters was pushed up to form the mountain ranges of theworld. There's something else beneath the crust: magma. The newly broken up and collapsed crust was then in closer proximity to the mantle and volcanoes began erupting around the world.


The world underwent a cataclysmic upheaval the likes of which we cannot fully fathom. Even after the flood waters had gone down, the world continued to dramatically change. During the period right after theFlood, the newly shaped continents were not completely separated from each other. The aforementioned polar icecaps were quickly starting to melt, and as they did, the waters came up again, and over a period of, say maybe, a couple of hundred years, the continents were largely isolated from each other. Highly diverse and unique synergistic ecosystems began to develop around the world. The survivors of these events must have been awe struck, to say the least, at what had happened to the world, and they made sure to teach their children about what happened, and why.

Well.It will make a good bedtime story but you have no evidence for any of it? So then its just fantasy? If you can back it up with scripture....

 

[Huckleberry]

If you can back it up with scripture....

I love how people say that as if every event in history is documented in the Bible.
Alright, lets start with some basics that are laid out in Scripture:

"And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the
firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so."

"And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew:
for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground."

"In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened."

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

"And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

No doubt you might say something like,
"But Revelation is only stuff that hasn't happened yet!"
And I would reply, "Oh really?", and direct you to Revelation chapter 12.

 

[Sagart]

Genesis 1:6. And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.
8. God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
9. And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.
10. God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

14. And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
15. and let them be lights in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.
16. God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night--and the stars.
17. God set them in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth,
18. to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

11. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
12. The rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights. (NRSV)

In the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, we find an excellent article (Vol. III, pp. 568-569 [two lengthy columns of fine print per page] on the word רָקִיעַ. Of special importance is the following from the article,

The verb רָקַע, raká, means to expand by beating, whether by the hand, the foot, or any instrument. It is especially used, however, of beating out metals into thin plates (Exod. xxxix, 3, Numb. xvi, 39), and hence the substantive רַקֻּעַים “broad plates” of metal (Numb. 16:38). (The italics are theirs).

Furthermore, the Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament by Brown, Driver, and Briggs published by Oxford University gives us the following meaning of word רָקִיעַ in Gen. 1:7, “the vault of heaven, or ‘firmament,’ regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting ‘waters’ above it.” (p. 956). Moreover, John Skinner, the late Principal and Professor of Old Testament Language and Literature at Westminster College, Cambridge, in his commentary on the Hebrew text of Genesis, writes,

6-8 Second Work: The Firmament.—The second fiat calls into existence a firmament, whose function is to divide the primeval waters into an upper and lower ocean, leaving a space between as the theater of further creative developments. The “firmament” is the dome of heaven, which to the ancients was no optical illusion, but a material structure, sometimes compared to an “upper chamber” (Ps. 104:12, Am 9:6) supported by “pillars” (Jb 26:11), and resembling in its surface a “molten mirror” (Jb 37:18). Above this are the heavenly waters, from which the rain descends through “windows” or “doors” (Gn 7:11, 8:2, 2 Ki 7:2, 19) opened and shut by God at His pleasure (Ps 78:23).

For further and much more extensive proof that this word רָקִיעַ is correctly translated as “dome” rather than “expanse”, please see the article for which I provided a link to in a post above. Here is the link again,

https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/te...s/text/articles-books/seely-firmament-wtj.htm


The KJV, and many other translations use the word firmament which comes from the Latin word firmamentum.Firmamentum is the Latin word for ‘support’! And indeed, that support, the dome, would have to be immensely strong to hold up the weight of the water above it—enough water to cover even Mount Everest! (Just one gallon of water weighs approximately 8.35 lb (about 3.785 kg).

 

[Denadii]

Genesis 1:6. And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.
8. God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
9. And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.
10. God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

14. And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
15. and let them be lights in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.
16. God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night--and the stars.
17. God set them in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth,
18. to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

11. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
12. The rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights. (NRSV)

In the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, we find an excellent article (Vol. III, pp. 568-569 [two lengthy columns of fine print per page] on the word רָקִיעַ. Of special importance is the following from the article,

The verb רָקַע, raká, means to expand by beating, whether by the hand, the foot, or any instrument. It is especially used, however, of beating out metals into thin plates (Exod. xxxix, 3, Numb. xvi, 39), and hence the substantive רַקֻּעַים “broad plates” of metal (Numb. 16:38). (The italics are theirs).

Furthermore, the Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament by Brown, Driver, and Briggs published by Oxford University gives us the following meaning of word רָקִיעַ in Gen. 1:7, “the vault of heaven, or ‘firmament,’ regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting ‘waters’ above it.” (p. 956). Moreover, John Skinner, the late Principal and Professor of Old Testament Language and Literature at Westminster College, Cambridge, in his commentary on the Hebrew text of Genesis, writes,

6-8 Second Work: The Firmament.—The second fiat calls into existence a firmament, whose function is to divide the primeval waters into an upper and lower ocean, leaving a space between as the theater of further creative developments. The “firmament” is the dome of heaven, which to the ancients was no optical illusion, but a material structure, sometimes compared to an “upper chamber” (Ps. 104:12, Am 9:6) supported by “pillars” (Jb 26:11), and resembling in its surface a “molten mirror” (Jb 37:18). Above this are the heavenly waters, from which the rain descends through “windows” or “doors” (Gn 7:11, 8:2, 2 Ki 7:2, 19) opened and shut by God at His pleasure (Ps 78:23).

For further and much more extensive proof that this word רָקִיעַ is correctly translated as “dome” rather than “expanse”, please see the article for which I provided a link to in a post above. Here is the link again,

https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/te...s/text/articles-books/seely-firmament-wtj.htm


The KJV, and many other translations use the word firmament which comes from the Latin word firmamentum.Firmamentum is the Latin word for ‘support’! And indeed, that support, the dome, would have to be immensely strong to hold up the weight of the water above it—enough water to cover even Mount Everest! (Just one gallon of water weighs approximately 8.35 lb (about 3.785 kg).

I'm not sure why one would base such an assumption on a German based word from a thousand years after Christ to prove a flood theory....The flood happened about two thousand years before Christ...The Bible itself would be a much better source.

So why do you use a Yiddish word at all for this?

I mean your discourse sounds knowledgeable but why not use Bible instead? Sounding knowledgeable and being knowledgeable is not the same thing at all

 

[Sagart]

I'm not sure why one would base such an assumption on a German based word from a thousand years after Christ to prove a flood theory....The flood happened about two thousand years before Christ...The Bible itself would be a much better source.

So why do you use a Yiddish word at all for this?

I mean your discourse sounds knowledgeable but why not use Bible instead? Sounding knowledgeable and being knowledgeable is not the same thing at all

רָקִיעַ is the Hebrew word found in the Masoretic text (of the Old Testament in the Bible) that is translated in our English versions as firmament, expanse, canopy, dome, etc. Whether it is also used by speakers of Yiddish I do not know. And, of course, had you read the article that I provided a link to, you would not have been so seriously confused.

 

[trofimus]

I think there is a problem with the thread title.

"My flood hypothesis: Definitely a global cataclysm"

So.. hypothesis or definitely?

If hypothesis, we can delight in your imagination.

If "definitely", then the lack of any evidence is a bad thing.

 

[Zmouth]

Since it is written...

"[SUP]14[/SUP]And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:"

The cloud was the firmament spoke of in Genesis 1:6 , the same cloud the LORD spoke of in Job 38:4 & 9
[SUP]
4[/SUP] "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding."
[SUP]
9 "[/SUP]When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,"

Besides, it says nothing about man seeing the arch in the cloud from earth but rather that when the LORD in heaven looked up it,

[SUP]16[/SUP]And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

Once the firmament of Genesis 1:6 was formed from the frozen waters that covered the entire face of the earth, it is no longer possible the waters to become a flood to destroy all flesh.

 

[Sagart]

Since it is written...

"[SUP]14[/SUP]And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:"

The cloud was the firmament spoke of in Genesis 1:6 , the same cloud the LORD spoke of in Job 38:4 & 9
[SUP]
4[/SUP] "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding."
[SUP]
9 "[/SUP]When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,"

Besides, it says nothing about man seeing the arch in the cloud from earth but rather that when the LORD in heaven looked up it,

[SUP]16[/SUP]And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

Once the firmament of Genesis 1:6 was formed from the frozen waters that covered the entire face of the earth, it is no longer possible the waters to become a flood to destroy all flesh.

The cloud (Hebrew = עָנָן) spoken of in Genesis 9:13-14 is a literal cloud, a mass of particles of condensed water vapor suspended in the earth’s atmosphere. The firmament (Hebrew = רָקִיעַ) in Genesis 1:6 is an immensely strong structure forming a dome over the earth, with floodgates [or windows] (Hebrew = אֲרֻבָּה) that God is able to open and shut.

Genesis 1-11 is written in a genre of literature that is not found anywhere else in the Bible. It is a genre of literature that never employs metaphorical or symbolic language, but only very literal language. Therefore, ‘day’ (Hebrew = יוֹם) meant a 24-hour day or the illuminated part of a 24-hour day; cloud (Hebrew = עָנָן) meant a mass of particles of condensed water vapor suspended in the earth’s atmosphere; and the floodgates [or windows] (Hebrew = אֲרֻבָּה) are literally floodgates [or windows] that could be opened or shut.

Job 38 is written in an entirely different genre of literature—it is poetry using imagery and symbolic and metaphorical language. And, of course, the cloud in v. 9 has absolutely nothing at all to do with the immensely strong structure forming a dome over the earth, with floodgates that God is able to open and shut.

 

[Zmouth]

Therefore, ‘day’ (Hebrew = יוֹם) meant a 24-hour day or the illuminated part of a 24-hour day;

Since it is written the evening and morning were the first day then would sunset to sunrise be 24 hours or 12 hours?
"Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? ...." John 11:9

cloud (Hebrew = עָנָן) meant a mass of particles of condensed water vapor suspended in the earth’s atmosphere;

Not sure what a "mass of particles" is, but a particle is defined as "one of the extremely small constituents of matter, as an atom or nucleus." However, condensed water vapor is liquid water. But then again that is what the are now saying that clouds are, tiny water droplets suspended in the atmosphere and not water vapor. See video @ 2:11

However, the firmament was formed when the waters were divided from the waters. Genesis 1:6
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

 

[BeyondET]

Since it is written the evening and morning were the first day then would sunset to sunrise be 24 hours or 12 hours?
"Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? ...." John 11:9



Not sure what a "mass of particles" is, but a particle is defined as "one of the extremely small constituents of matter, as an atom or nucleus." However, condensed water vapor is liquid water. But then again that is what the are now saying that clouds are, tiny water droplets suspended in the atmosphere and not water vapor. See video @ 2:11

However, the firmament was formed when the waters were divided from the waters. Genesis 1:6
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

The 12 hours in a day has been a backbone to the theory that the six days was literal,

But John 11:9 was a statement to get the disciples to understand that Lazarus died a day before the arrival of the messengers. thus they didn't get it so he plainly explained it to them.

 

[Huckleberry]

Change my mind.