My "Magic Shop" dilemma

Elijah19 · Dec 14, 2014

Hey everybody, glad to talk to you!

I need some Bible advice straight up on a personal conundrum, so I'll get right to the point.

I believe very firmly that anything/everything of the occult is evil according to the Bible (astrology, palm reading, tarot cards, pentigrams, wicca, the list goes on...) At the same time, though, my hobby just happens to be performing little "illusions" to impress my friends and family. By illusions, I mean stuff like card tricks, slight of hand, disappearing coins, and etc. I love doing it for the fun of it, because I like to entertain people see.

I don't really think of my "magic" tricks in the same way as I think of the occult. To me, what I'm doing is just that... tricks. There is of course no "real" magic or demonic content (or something like that) involved. I hate the occult, I just love illusions.

Anyway, to get to the point, when I need to stock up on "magical" supplies, there is only one shop in town that sells them. Unfortunately for me, the business is very pagan run, and the people are very into the occult. Many occult things are sold there, and I don't want to be guilty before God of supporting the occult, because I stand strongly against it. I don't want to buy from a store that sells magic tricks for my performance if I know that the money I pay will be going to funding an obviously satanist business. It's the only magic shop in town, though, so I don't know what to do. Where should I buy my supplies? Online? Should I make them? Is it wrong to buy the non-occult tricks from this shop knowing I will fund the occult-ish ones?

Help me out here, if you would.

Also, please understand that by me being a "Magician," I am not being an occultist. I am a bona-fide Christian, I attend church weekly, I know that I am a sinner, and I was saved by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ alone. I don't need anyone to tell me (again and again as before) that my "magic" tricks are summoning demons and hurting my soul. I swear to you now, I have never used "real" (hem hem occult) "magic" in my life. There is a difference between occult magic and entertaining illusions. I am both a true Christian and a magician...

In God's Love

And thanks for your support...

dcontroversal · Dec 14, 2014

Well how about every where we shop in some form or fashion is tied to something that is contrary....taxes used to fund liberal programs that are contrary, companies sold out to paganism, companies run by men who love money (the root of all evil), child labor, sweat shops etc.

Yes there are some decent God fearing men who own businesses, but over all a lot of corporations do things that are contrary to the scripture....

maxwel · Dec 14, 2014

I wouldn't worry about it.
If shopping there personally bothers you, then buy your stuff online.

In some cultures they make no distinction between "stage magician" and "occult sorcerer".
They don't know the difference.
In a place like that, everything you are doing is suddenly a huge problem for people.
But here in the U.S., we do make that distinction, and it's considered perfectly fine to be a stage magician.

Have fun, do your magic tricks, and buy your supplies wherever you feel good about buying them.

Brainfreeze · Dec 14, 2014

What is God telling you to do ?.... I would leave the magic with satan and the rest of his devices... Pray about it brother..

In the 1920s, after the death of his mother, Houdini began focusing his energy on debunking psychics and mediums. Although he eventually focused on proving these people to be fakes, his initial entry into the world of the supernatural began when he attempted to contact his dead mother. However, he found that the mediums he met were often frauds. He began investigating their methods and claims and later became a self-appointed crusader against them. He knew he could duplicate their methods on stage and it was not long before his efforts to reach his mother became secondary to his need to expose the frauds. Ashamed of having masqueraded as a medium during his medicine show days, Houdini began making notes for a book. However, to prove that he did have an open mind, the magician made a pact with his friends that when he died, he would make contact, if at all possible, from the other side. He devised a secret code with his wife Bess so that only she could divine the legitimacy of the message.

In 1923, he took time off from his magic act to travel across the country giving lectures against mediums. His book, A Magician Among the Spirits, would be published the following year. Later in 1923, Houdini joined a panel that was put together by Scientific American Magazine, which offered a reward for any medium that could prove their psychic gifts were genuine. Months after joining the committee, Houdini heard the committee had deadlocked over a medium named Mina Crandon. He immediately set out to debunk Crandon by attending one of her séances, at the end of which he is said to have remarked, “I’ve got her; all fraud.” To prove it, Houdini created a special “fraud preventer” cabinet, a crate with a slanted top with openings for the medium’s head and arms. The second séance, this time using the cabinet, was not successful and Crandon did not receive the cash prize. In the fall of 1925, Houdini opened a new full-evening show that included his debunking of psychics and mediums. In every city along his route, Houdini offered $10,000 to anyone who could exhibit supernatural phenomena that he could not mirror. The shows sold out all over the country. In the spring of 1926, he returned to New York with the intention of spending the summer months relaxing and devising new mysteries for his fall season. It was during this tour that the show began to be plagued with problems and mishaps and ended with Houdini’s death.

So all the other " sorcerers/ magicians " were fake.. but he was supposed to be the
" real McCoy "...smh.. Trickery that he's supposed to leave some " divine " message to his wife after death... Wild stuff

Brainfreeze · Dec 14, 2014

To add ... After Houdini died..

First, Bess became ill with ptomaine poisoning. Then, a chain slipped during Houdini’s famous Chinese Water Torture Cell escape and Harry fractured his ankle. Finally, Houdini received an unexpected punch to the abdomen, which eventually led to his death at the age of 52. Not long after his death, the “Houdini Séances” began with Bess Houdini offering $10,000 to anyone who could help contact her husband. In 1928, a man named Arthur Ford announced that he had received a message from Houdini himself. After reviewing the message, Bess Houdini validated the message as one that indeed used the code shared between her and her husband.

Bess continued to hold séances to contact her husband, but the last official séance was held on October 31, 1936. This final séance was covered by radio and broadcast all over the world. The medium called out to Harry to make himself known. However, after over an hour, nothing had occurred and Mrs. Houdini decided to “turn out the light” on her attempts to contact Harry. As the séance came to an end, a violent storm broke out full of thunder and lightening and drenching everyone involved. The participants would later learn that the storm did not occur anywhere else in the area; only above the séance location.

magic seems innocent as Disney land, but there's a deeper underlying tone to it... Why pagans love it..

Angela53510 · Dec 14, 2014

When I was in Seminary, one of the profs was an illusionist! He was incredible. He put on magic shows everywhere. People came for magic tricks and he preached the gospel.

So I do not think tricks are wrong. Like someone said, if you feel uncomfortable with that store, then shop on-line. I'm not sure how many Christian "magic" sites there are, but I am sure a quick surf through the internet would find you what you are looking for.

OR, how about witnessing to Christ in that store? They are lost, and if no one tells them the gospel, who will? Maybe this is your chance to make a real ministry out of a fun hobby!

Brainfreeze · Dec 14, 2014

Magic by definition ...

Magic (paranormal), the use of paranormal methods to manipulate natural forces
Magic (illusion), the art of appearing to perform supernatural feats

I can't believe the folks in here saying it's ok to do magic... Trickery, appearing to do something that's FAKE,

what would Yahshua do ? Would he ever fool you or make you believe something that's not real ? No, Christ would never...

how can we lie and " make believe " then tell someone about Christ and tell them to " believe " ? Why would they believe us about Christ ? God doesn't need magic, He's got the REAL DEAL... Miracles

...

4enlightment · Dec 14, 2014

That is entertainment, it doesn't has nothing to do with anything that will offend God. It only becomes offensive when you has followers believing in you. God didn't wanted the people at the time to go to psychics that He didn't appointed, and which they does it for the money and other evils, and which they get their information from the other place.

Brainfreeze · Dec 14, 2014

4enlightment said:

So when people see some demon filled person with the illusion of walking on water... Is that entertaining to you ? or claiming to bring the dead back to life... for " entertainment " ? I'm asking, did Jesus or any other apostle write about doing magic for God ?...
verse please..

ThomistColin · Dec 14, 2014

Brainfreeze said:

Realize the difference. When you go and see a magician, the best of them tell you they are tricking you. They want you to wonder and try to logically figure it out. Magic more often than not is a man standing on stage weaving riddles. Also, so that you might understand, in the ancient world these people pulling rabbits out of the hat weren't "magi" or "sorcerers" but "jugglers".

Marian29 · Dec 14, 2014

I really don't know... There are lots of new things in this world, the Bible didn't mention... we must ask ourselves: what's the point of doing it?... If the Holy Spirit bothered you about it. Then you should ask God if is it bothering Him, we all want to please the Lord first, not ourselves, right?

...

I personaly, have a gift from birth from God, to work with art. I like working with clay, but I won't make a sculpture of the image I have of Jesus in my mind, so, I prefer to dedicate to paintings... There's always a solution, "All things cooperate for the good of whom loves God"...

Brainfreeze · Dec 14, 2014

ThomistColin said:

Realize the difference. When you go and see a magician, the best of them tell you they are tricking you. They want you to wonder and try to logically figure it out. Magic more often than not is a man standing on stage weaving riddles. Also, so that you might understand, in the ancient world these people pulling rabbits out of the hat weren't "magi" or "sorcerers" but "jugglers".

So is it glorifying God or us ?

Brainfreeze · Dec 14, 2014

Is satan a gift from God ? ... No

Is magic a gift from God ? No

…9But Saul, who was also known as Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, fixed his gaze on him, 10and said, "You who are full of all deceit and fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease to make crooked the straight ways of the Lord?

…13until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; 15but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,…

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Angela53510 · Dec 14, 2014

So Brainfreeze, you're telling us you have no hobbies at all?

I play flute, garden and ride a bicycle. I try and dedicate all those things to God. This fall I was able to give away 100 lbs of tomatoes (fresh, organic) to a group of ladies my friend was witnessing to. All hispanics, lost and looking for Jesus. They were so touched that I was blessing them, they got serious about what my friend was trying to say about Jesus Christ.

Surely sometimes we just do things to relax and enjoy ourselves. While Christ should be first in everything we do, there is no saying these magic tricks will not develop into a ministry, like my Seminary prof.

The OP seems to know the difference between magic tricks and the occult. He also is serving Jesus. I know when I was first saved, I saw a lot of occult crawling around everywhere. It did take some learning and discrimination to learn what was truly evil, what was not profitable, and what was godly.

There was a HUGE amount of legalism about what music people should listen to, art they should enjoy, places they should go in the 1980s. It was a terrible type of bondage. Eventually, I learned to focus on the godly things, but not with fear in my heart that everything except the occasional thing was evil. Interesting, that was the heyday of Christian theme parks. Turns out many of the people building those parks were immoral and living inconsistently.

I pray that one day God will deliver people from the bondage of legalism and fear, so they can be free to serve God, out of love, not because someone names something as evil when it is not.

"So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed." John 8:36

Brainfreeze · Dec 14, 2014

Angela53510 said:

Are any of these " hobbies " deceptive or tricking anyone ? and what does free mean to you in that verse of John ?

ThomistColin · Dec 14, 2014

Brainfreeze said:

Okay Mr. Cromwell calm down here. Magicians openly admit these are tricks based on skill and misdirection. You and every American child learned their first magic trick by bending a pencil by it up moving up and down. Its called motion blur...your eyes are trying to keep track of the movement but the blur of the moving pencil makes it look like its bending. Is this of Satan?

Elijah19 · Dec 14, 2014

Just pitching in here... As I said before and I will say it again, I HATE the occult, in all forms and in every way possible... it gives me such a bad rep with my Christian brothers and sisters. That's why I want to know if it's okay to shop where I am wondering. No magician would normally say this, but I'm just gonna say it... I don't even pretend to lie. I actually tell people it's just a trick and I say it's just for entertainment. I'm not lying and I'm not connecting with demons... Here's the thing... All I'm doing is hiding a coin between my fingers and a card beneath my sleeve (*forgive my spoilers). Nothing occult about it. What I'm asking is this... How do I safely and morally avoid the occult in my situation? That's all I really want to know...

Brainfreeze · Dec 14, 2014

Elijah19 said:

7 But the magicians did the same by their secret arts and made frogs come up on the land of Egypt.

It's misleading " lying ", telling someone your going to fly, or float a cup across the room, when your NOT doing that, your using wires or " other means " to do your trick... If all your using is a coin, they print them all the time, cards are bought at any walmart or something of the kind.." Still a problem " ... You also want " trick " cards or magic tools from " magic shops "... Your already being deceptive here... No tricks will get you to heaven, I'd suggest you pray about it...

Elijah19 · Dec 14, 2014

Will do. And good advice.

But is lying still lying if you tell someone you are lying?

kaylagrl · Dec 15, 2014

Elijah19 said:

I would go online and see if I could find what I needed. I wouldn't support the store.Just doesnt look good on a Christian.Whatever you're buying is probably cheaper online anyway.Hope that helps.

My "Magic Shop" dilemma

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