My take on water baptism...

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Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
592
78
28
#1
Galatians 5:1-4
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

We will fall from the understanding of the grace that is in Christ, and succumb to the doctrines and theories that are dictated by human conception if we seek justification by our own works. The concision was from those who taught circumcision was necessary for salvation. Circumcision is a work of the flesh required by the Old Testament Law, and by the way so is water baptism, which is a carryover from part of the Levitical Law.

There are many examples of people in the Old Testament who would wash themselves with water as a final step to being clean. Water baptism was an outward sign of washing, and then you would be clean to God. Baptism in water, and the need to be circumcised passed away with the coming of Pentecost, as did the other Levitical Laws. To be led by the spirit is to not be under the yoke of bondage with the extreme of legalism, seeking the works of the flesh from the old covenant concerning the past Law administration that was written to Israel.

It's clear from the gospels that water baptism had to do with the kingdom, which was ministered by John who was known as the Baptizer, and not a minister for the Church of God. John who was a prophet functioning under the old covenant was appointed by God to prepare and confirm the promises made to Israel. His message was to tell those who lived under the old covenant that the king had come and “the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

He used water as a sign to baptize those who believed the promised Messiah would be coming in just a matter of months and to illustrate that he would be the Christ, who would baptize them not with material water, but with holy spirit, which is “power from on high.” From the habit of tradition, and only for a short period of time, a small handful of people were baptized with water into the New Testament, but never again afterwards.

In the epistles written just a little bit past the beginning of the New Testament is where we read the only time water baptism is mentioned is to note there is no more need for it, and that we are now to be baptized with holy spirit. And this is why in Acts 2:38, Peter commands “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ.” In Acts 8:16, Peter and John “baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” In Acts 10:48, Peter “commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.” In Romans 6:3, it declares “that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ.”

There is not one exception to this practice where we see water baptism, which belonged to the time period when Christ walked the earth, being used once the Church of God had become established. To suggest water baptism has anything to do with the only begotten resurrected Son of God, who is functioning within the New Testament as the head of the body of Christ, has led to nothing but confusion and has provided a bomb that has blown the local churches into pieces.
 

Prycejosh1987

Active member
Jul 19, 2020
929
135
43
#2
There is not one exception to this practice where we see water baptism, which belonged to the time period when Christ walked the earth, being used once the Church of God had become established. To suggest water baptism has anything to do with the only begotten resurrected Son of God, who is functioning within the New Testament as the head of the body of Christ, has led to nothing but confusion and has provided a bomb that has blown the local churches into pieces.
I wouldnt go that far, and say its a bomb, i would say baptism is simple to understand in context and also that it doesnt hold as much importance as the life we live after being baptised. Baptism is an action but it cannot save on its own, i think of it as getting married. The male and female put on the wedding rings on each other and then start living for each other. Well that is how God designed it but the world nowadays doesnt take marriage seriously, they also do not take baptism seriously.
 

Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
592
78
28
#3
I wouldnt go that far, and say its a bomb, i would say baptism is simple to understand in context and also that it doesnt hold as much importance as the life we live after being baptised. Baptism is an action but it cannot save on its own, i think of it as getting married. The male and female put on the wedding rings on each other and then start living for each other. Well that is how God designed it but the world nowadays doesnt take marriage seriously, they also do not take baptism seriously.
I say a bomb because they teach water baptism in the place of being baptized in Christ. Water or circumcised in Paul's day are works of the flesh. And that's what the churches teach. How to walk upright in the flesh. It's a bomb that has blown the local churches into pieces.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,049
19,936
113
#4
Immersion is a picture, the outward sign of the inward covenant, it is the public testimony of your faith, states to all that you have died with Christ, are buried with Christ and resurrected a new creation in Christ. It is the first act of obedience after one has been saved by faith and is indeed STILL AN ORDINACE of the Lord's Churches!
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,095
1,411
113
#5
Immersion is a picture, the outward sign of the inward covenant, it is the public testimony of your faith, states to all that you have died with Christ, are buried with Christ and resurrected a new creation in Christ. It is the first act of obedience after one has been saved by faith and is indeed STILL AN ORDINACE of the Lord's Churches!
Immersion is a picture,the outward sign of a desire to become part of the kingdom of priest .its what the discussion in John 3 :25 was about. Why is a person from the tribe of Judah being baptized and is baptizing others?

No sign gifts. Just a desire to become a member of the priesthood of believers . The first Aarons two sons added their own self edifying personal touch and were consumed by fire. The priestly garments were unaffected by the fire.

Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.John3:25-26
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,830
881
113
#6
No one can fully understand water baptism unless they know what water stands for in the Lord's eyes. That requires learning about God the Father. That information is in the OT, and Peterbug has stated he will not study the OT, so he cannot know all of what happens in water baptism. He has turned his back on learning about this.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,696
113
#7
No one can fully understand water baptism unless they know what water stands for in the Lord's eyes. That requires learning about God the Father. That information is in the OT, and Peterbug has stated he will not study the OT, so he cannot know all of what happens in water baptism. He has turned his back on learning about this.
Well, he's missing out on a lot of understanding, comfort, theology, revelation, sound doctrine and truths if he avoids the OT.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
16,365
1,344
113
#8
Well the thing is Jesus himself was baptized in water and only after that did he begin his ministry, if he is our example then are not to follow it or do we just take one thing and put away another?
True water baptism doesn't save but that isn't the purpose pof it. Have you ever wondered why so many cultures including Christianity liken water to rebirth? we came from the waters of the flesh from the womb but we come out of the waters of the spirit upon rising from the water being baptized in Christ. it is about the imagery the beauty and p[icture of it to gain an understanding of being born again into his kingdom

It was never for salvation itself it is the lesson in the imagery of it
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,049
19,936
113
#9
Immersion is a picture,the outward sign of a desire to become part of the kingdom of priest .its what the discussion in John 3 :25 was about. Why is a person from the tribe of Judah being baptized and is baptizing others?

No sign gifts. Just a desire to become a member of the priesthood of believers . The first Aarons two sons added their own self edifying personal touch and were consumed by fire. The priestly garments were unaffected by the fire.

Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.John3:25-26
Not hardly!!
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
4,672
781
113
#10
Galatians 5:1-4
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

We will fall from the understanding of the grace that is in Christ, and succumb to the doctrines and theories that are dictated by human conception if we seek justification by our own works. The concision was from those who taught circumcision was necessary for salvation. Circumcision is a work of the flesh required by the Old Testament Law, and by the way so is water baptism, which is a carryover from part of the Levitical Law.

There are many examples of people in the Old Testament who would wash themselves with water as a final step to being clean. Water baptism was an outward sign of washing, and then you would be clean to God. Baptism in water, and the need to be circumcised passed away with the coming of Pentecost, as did the other Levitical Laws. To be led by the spirit is to not be under the yoke of bondage with the extreme of legalism, seeking the works of the flesh from the old covenant concerning the past Law administration that was written to Israel.

It's clear from the gospels that water baptism had to do with the kingdom, which was ministered by John who was known as the Baptizer, and not a minister for the Church of God. John who was a prophet functioning under the old covenant was appointed by God to prepare and confirm the promises made to Israel. His message was to tell those who lived under the old covenant that the king had come and “the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

He used water as a sign to baptize those who believed the promised Messiah would be coming in just a matter of months and to illustrate that he would be the Christ, who would baptize them not with material water, but with holy spirit, which is “power from on high.” From the habit of tradition, and only for a short period of time, a small handful of people were baptized with water into the New Testament, but never again afterwards.

In the epistles written just a little bit past the beginning of the New Testament is where we read the only time water baptism is mentioned is to note there is no more need for it, and that we are now to be baptized with holy spirit. And this is why in Acts 2:38, Peter commands “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ.” In Acts 8:16, Peter and John “baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” In Acts 10:48, Peter “commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.” In Romans 6:3, it declares “that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ.”

There is not one exception to this practice where we see water baptism, which belonged to the time period when Christ walked the earth, being used once the Church of God had become established. To suggest water baptism has anything to do with the only begotten resurrected Son of God, who is functioning within the New Testament as the head of the body of Christ, has led to nothing but confusion and has provided a bomb that has blown the local churches into pieces.
Most churches want to believe in Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 as doctrine written to them.

They are fine with ignoring John 20:23 though.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
26,500
3,677
113
#11
Water Baptism (as we once again discuss it) is the 1st act of obedience to Jesus Christ that a newborn believer should do............

Water baptism serves as a WITNESS to both the Church and the World that a new believer has accepted Christ as Lord and Savior and become a disciple of Christ.

It IS NOT "unto salvation." However, all believers should be water baptized because Christ said for us to be.

Water baptism IS NOT false Theology, or false Teaching.............Water baptism REQUIRED for salvation IS.......

IMHO
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
4,672
781
113
#12
Water Baptism (as we once again discuss it) is the 1st act of obedience to Jesus Christ that a newborn believer should do............

Water baptism serves as a WITNESS to both the Church and the World that a new believer has accepted Christ as Lord and Savior and become a disciple of Christ.

It IS NOT "unto salvation." However, all believers should be water baptized because Christ said for us to be.

Water baptism IS NOT false Theology, or false Teaching.............Water baptism REQUIRED for salvation IS.......

IMHO
So what happen if a new believer decline water baptism? Is he still saved?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,859
4,919
113
#13
There is not one exception to this practice where we see water baptism, which belonged to the time period when Christ walked the earth, being used once the Church of God had become established.
BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHERS (including Peterlag)!

You have clearly identified yourself as a false teacher by making the above statement. In plain English, Christians today do not need water baptism. And that is blatantly false.

Water baptism -- in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost -- has been a Christian practice at all times since Pentecost. It does not replace Spirit baptism, but it CONFIRMS Spirit baptism.

ACTS 10: SPIRIT BAPTISM FOLLOWED IMMEDIATELY BY WATER BAPTISM
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all)
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the Word. [THE BAPTISM WITH THE HOLY GHOST]
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. [WATER BAPTISM COMMANDED]

Here we read that baptism was "in the name of the Lord". This is simply an abbreviation of "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
3,463
1,203
113
#14
Just as the Bible teaches us, the thief on the cross had to be water baptized to be saved... not so
I don't agree with this exposition in the OP, the water was foreshadowing of cleaning of our conscience. Water baptism is about public profession of Christ before men, etc. Not what saves:

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (NOT the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
(emphasis added)
 

Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
592
78
28
#15
Most churches want to believe in Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 as doctrine written to them.

They are fine with ignoring John 20:23 though.
I teach Christ and his righteousness. I don't teach man and how well they sin.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
26,500
3,677
113
#16
So what happen if a new believer decline water baptism? Is he still saved?
Why would a new believer decline to obey Christ? Do you believe it is acceptable to live in disobedience to Christ? IF there is a specific reason why a believer can not/is not water baptized, that will not change their salvation status........however, IF Christ says to be water baptized, why would a believer choose to disobey Him? It's not like water baptism will harm them...........AND, it's good for their Spiritual health.

Playing "what if" games with Commandments Christ gives seems kinda silly IMO.......
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,823
1,696
113
Texas
#17
BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHERS (including Peterlag)!

You have clearly identified yourself as a false teacher by making the above statement. In plain English, Christians today do not need water baptism. And that is blatantly false.

Water baptism -- in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost -- has been a Christian practice at all times since Pentecost. It does not replace Spirit baptism, but it CONFIRMS Spirit baptism.

ACTS 10: SPIRIT BAPTISM FOLLOWED IMMEDIATELY BY WATER BAPTISM
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all)
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the Word. [THE BAPTISM WITH THE HOLY GHOST]
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. [WATER BAPTISM COMMANDED]

Here we read that baptism was "in the name of the Lord". This is simply an abbreviation of "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
One guy got it right?
What a sad state the church is in today. From people who want to eisegete water out of baptism, to people who only want it to be a symbol or outward sign. The types and shadows of the old covenant are gone. We live in the reality of the promise of Jesus. We live by the spirit now by types and shadows. What we do in the ministry of Christ is by the Holy Spirit, if we preach it is by The Spirit, if we comfort, it is by The Spirit, if we baptize with water it is by The Spirit. Types and shadows have no power, The works of The Holy Spirit are powerful and effectual.
Do you really think that preaching or teaching is a work of us? Do we convict people and prick their hearts into repentance? To we impart knowledge of Christ into people with clever words and eloquent speech? Paul denied this. We set ourselves up as God if we think this is by us. So why wod we make baptism a work of us? Because we stand in water together? If I dunk person in water they are not baptized, I did this as a child we dunked each other playing in the river we were not baptized but we're children playing in the river, and it was sent an outward sign of anything not even of children playing in the river, we were actually playing in the river. Baptism is the water and the word effective by the working of the Holy Spirit. Just like preaching isn't clever speeches given by men. It is the word of God effective by the working of the Holy Spirit to convict the heart of men and affect repentance.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,823
1,696
113
Texas
#18
Why would a new believer decline to obey Christ? Do you believe it is acceptable to live in disobedience to Christ? IF there is a specific reason why a believer can not/is not water baptized, that will not change their salvation status........however, IF Christ says to be water baptized, why would a believer choose to disobey Him? It's not like water baptism will harm them...........AND, it's good for their Spiritual health.

Playing "what if" games with Commandments Christ gives seems kinda silly IMO.......
Ok two people now.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,823
1,696
113
Texas
#19
I teach Christ and his righteousness. I don't teach man and how well they sin.
You teach a lie and rob men of the command of Jesus. You contort the word to make your own doctrine. You ignore the word, you ignore what the first century church actually did, you ignore the command of Christ, and teach others to do the same .
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
4,672
781
113
#20
Why would a new believer decline to obey Christ? Do you believe it is acceptable to live in disobedience to Christ? IF there is a specific reason why a believer can not/is not water baptized, that will not change their salvation status........however, IF Christ says to be water baptized, why would a believer choose to disobey Him? It's not like water baptism will harm them...........AND, it's good for their Spiritual health.

Playing "what if" games with Commandments Christ gives seems kinda silly IMO.......
Your use of the word "however" seems to imply that, if there is no good reason why one shouldn't get baptized, not getting water baptized will change the salvation status?