Nachash - Nachashim -- Serpents and enchantments

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Depleted

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This is the word that brought me to Christian Chat in the first place, so very long ago. Nachash is an Ancient Hebrew word that means "to hiss, that is, whisper a (magic) spell; generally to prognosticate:" (quoted from Strong's Concordance.) Nachashim is the plural, so it's translated into enchantments or omens sometimes. The remarkable part is it also means serpent.

It's the word used in Genesis 3 for the serpent. (Yes, that serpent.) Adam Clarke went into a specific explanation of the word in his commentary. (I was going to copy/paste but it's too long.)

I've run into it before, when Moses is holding up his staff the first time. (I wanted to find out more from the Internet the first time this word was connected to Moses' staff and stumbled on a question from TinTin, so I found this site.) And I came across it today in Numbers 24:1, where ESV translates it to omens, but whatever Bible Adam Clarke used translated it to enchantments.

Don't expect some grand sermon from me. I simply thought this was interesting that serpent and prognosticating come from the same root word in Ancient Hebrew. Maybe someone else will enjoy checking it out more, especially given in Job it is related to a leviathan and, maybe, a hippo. (Hey, you're going to have to check out Clarke's commentary on Gen 3:1 to understand that one. lol)
 
InSpiritInTruth

InSpiritInTruth

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Here is a post on .....http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/129131-serpents-scorpions.html

Psalm 74:14
Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

Revelation 12:3
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.


Psalm 104:26 "There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein."

Isaiah 27:1
In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea."

Revelation 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
 
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InSpiritInTruth said:
Here is a post on .....http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/129131-serpents-scorpions.html

Psalm 74:14
Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

Revelation 12:3
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.


Psalm 104:26 "There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein."

Isaiah 27:1
In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea."

Revelation 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
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Buuut, OT and NT are written in two different languages, so how do you know it's the same word? Clearly English doesn't include prognosticating with serpents, or Punxsutawney Phil the groundhog would be Schuylkill Sam the snake.
 
InSpiritInTruth

InSpiritInTruth

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Depleted said:
Buuut, OT and NT are written in two different languages, so how do you know it's the same word? Clearly English doesn't include prognosticating with serpents, or Punxsutawney Phil the groundhog would be Schuylkill Sam the snake.
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I know the Truth by the Spirit of Truth. There are 2 main spirits that prophesy in this world, One is of the father of lies, and the other is the Spirit of Truth which is from God the Father in heaven.

The heads are the ancient of days, just as the Father in heaven is the head of Christ, and Christ is the head of the His Body the Church, even also being the head of the man of God.

So in like fashion the father of lies, the Old Serpent is the head of his Body made up also of many members and empowered by his spirit, as is also Christ's body.

And if those who are of God's Spirit speak by the Spirit of Christ, which is the Spirit of prophecy, then so too do those who are the false prophet spirit speak by the spirit of this world and by the spirit of a lie; which is that spirit of antichrist called "it" that was from the beginning and would cover the head, or bruise the head of the Serpent.

Notice the head is the ancient of days, but it is his tail that prophesies lies through many deceivers (brood of vipers and scorpions).

Isaiah 9:15
The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

That is why we see power in the tails of the army that comes out of the bottomless pit, and also by the tail of the Red Dragon a third of the angels in heaven were drawn away from the Truth, darkened, and cast down from heaven.

Revelation 9:10
And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

Revelation 9:19
For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

Revelation 12:4
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
 
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InSpiritInTruth said:
I know the Truth by the Spirit of Truth. There are 2 main spirits that prophesy in this world, One is of the father of lies, and the other is the Spirit of Truth which is from God the Father in heaven.

The heads are the ancient of days, just as the Father in heaven is the head of Christ, and Christ is the head of the His Body the Church, even also being the head of the man of God.

So in like fashion the father of lies, the Old Serpent is the head of his Body made up also of many members and empowered by his spirit, as is also Christ's body.

And if those who are of God's Spirit speak by the Spirit of Christ, which is the Spirit of prophecy, then so too do those who are the false prophet spirit speak by the spirit of this world and by the spirit of a lie; which is that spirit of antichrist called "it" that was from the beginning and would cover the head, or bruise the head of the Serpent.

Notice the head is the ancient of days, but it is his tail that prophesies lies through many deceivers (brood of vipers and scorpions).

Isaiah 9:15
The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

That is why we see power in the tails of the army that comes out of the bottomless pit, and also by the tail of the Red Dragon a third of the angels in heaven were drawn away from the Truth, darkened, and cast down from heaven.

Revelation 9:10
And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

Revelation 9:19
For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

Revelation 12:4
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
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You lost me at first sentence. Everyone thinks they have truth. "Because I say so" really just doesn't cut it with me, even if the say-so is blamed on God.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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Depleted said:
Buuut, OT and NT are written in two different languages, so how do you know it's the same word? Clearly English doesn't include prognosticating with serpents, or Punxsutawney Phil the groundhog would be Schuylkill Sam the snake.
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In the septuagint Leviathan is translated dragon, the same Greek word as in Revelation.
 
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#7
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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
In the septuagint Leviathan is translated dragon, the same Greek word as in Revelation.
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Taken from Isaiah -- the second time dragon is used in OT. (First time was Dragon Springs, so doesn't really count since that's the name of the place. lol)
H3882


לִוְיָתָן
livyâthân
liv-yaw-thawn'
From H3867; a wreathed animal, that is, a serpent (especially the crocodile or some other large sea monster); figuratively the constellation of the dragon; also as a symbol of Babylon: - leviathan, mourning.
Total KJV occurrences: 6


Dragon from Revelation 12:3
G1404


δράκων
drakōn
drak'-own
Probably from an alternate form of δέρκομαι derkomai (to look); a fabulous kind of serpent (perhaps as supposed to fascinate): - dragon.
Total KJV occurrences: 13


Leviathan throughout the whole Bible

4 verses found, 5 matches

Job 1 verse found 1 match
Psalms 2 verses found 2 matches
Isaiah 1 verse found 2 matches


Nope. Not working for me.
 
InSpiritInTruth

InSpiritInTruth

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Depleted said:
You lost me at first sentence. Everyone thinks they have truth. "Because I say so" really just doesn't cut it with me, even if the say-so is blamed on God.
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That's why I post a lot of scripture to prove my points, weather one understands the truth or not, the truth will be made known in the end, and those who also denied it. :)
 
V

valiant

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Depleted said:
Taken from Isaiah -- the second time dragon is used in OT. (First time was Dragon Springs, so doesn't really count since that's the name of the place. lol)
H3882


לִוְיָתָן
livyâthân
liv-yaw-thawn'
From H3867; a wreathed animal, that is, a serpent (especially the crocodile or some other large sea monster); figuratively the constellation of the dragon; also as a symbol of Babylon: - leviathan, mourning.
Total KJV occurrences: 6


Dragon from Revelation 12:3
G1404


δράκων
drakōn
drak'-own
Probably from an alternate form of δέρκομαι derkomai (to look); a fabulous kind of serpent (perhaps as supposed to fascinate): - dragon.
Total KJV occurrences: 13


Leviathan throughout the whole Bible

4 verses found, 5 matches

Job 1 verse found 1 match
Psalms 2 verses found 2 matches
Isaiah 1 verse found 2 matches


Nope. Not working for me.
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Leviathan is the OT name for large creatures, and means nothing more.

It is not the drakon of the nt.
 
InSpiritInTruth

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Job 41:34
He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

Revelation 9:11 “And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. =Destroyer=Destruction

Pride goes before Destruction.....

Job 41:15-16
[SUP]15 [/SUP]His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]One is so near to another, that no air (H7307) can come between them."

"One [SUP]H259[/SUP] is so near [SUP]H5066[/SUP] to another, [SUP]H259[/SUP] that no air [SUP]H7307[/SUP] can come [SUP]H935[/SUP] between them."

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit [SUP]H7307[/SUP] of God moved upon the face of the waters."



The best way not to receive the Spirit (H7307) of Truth, is to harden your heart with pride, like a closed seal.


 
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#13
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InSpiritInTruth said:
That's why I post a lot of scripture to prove my points, weather one understands the truth or not, the truth will be made known in the end, and those who also denied it. :)
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Sure, I could post random scriptures too, but since they don't support the topic/word, again, just because you think you have truth doesn't make it so.
 
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Tintin

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#15
#15
Hello, again!

Oh, my! Adam Clarke's commentary for Genesis 3:1 was fascinating but his conclusion was very odd. So he believes Satan was an orang-outan? Haw, haw! That's glorious. As for the Behemoth and Levithan, he can be forgiven for not knowing that they were probably so-called pre-historic creatures (after all, dinosaur bones hadn't yet been discovered by the Western world).
 
M

Mitspa

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#16
#16
Go to the Cross in your hearts desire to be crucified with the Lord..and you will see the serpent (sin) that is in everyman.
 
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#17
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Tintin said:
Hello, again!

Oh, my! Adam Clarke's commentary for Genesis 3:1 was fascinating but his conclusion was very odd. So he believes Satan was an orang-outan? Haw, haw! That's glorious. As for the Behemoth and Levithan, he can be forgiven for not knowing that they were probably so-called pre-historic creatures (after all, dinosaur bones hadn't yet been discovered by the Western world).
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This is what I'm saying. I find what he thinks so fascinating. It got me to wondering if that serpent in the garden was magically inclined. Maybe. Maybe not. I no longer picture him as an anaconda though.

As for dinosaurs? True. They hadn't put the pieces of the puzzle together as far as we have. (And we don't have all the pieces yet either.) BUT he knew there were gimungous crocs in the Nile then, and that the predecessors for those crocs were even bigger. I'm thinking maybe they had bones of prehistorics already. (And they really are prehistoric, since that just means before history was written down, or history so early, we no longer have the records. So, the tower of Babel is prehistoric, in that we lost the history and records of those people doing that act.)

Adam Clarke takes me three ways:
1. I believe what he says.
2. I don't understand what he says.
3. I don't believe what he says.

Often in the same article. However, he really makes us think it over. :)
 
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Mitspa said:
Go to the Cross in your hearts desire to be crucified with the Lord..and you will see the serpent (sin) that is in everyman.
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Rule number one for writing -- "Know your audience."

Who is your audience?

Seriously, dude? Do you think nonbelievers are interested in a post about a word in the Bible that means serpent AND prognosticating?

In which case, I should go find a math forum and start talking about the rules to writing.
 
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Mitspa

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#19
#19
Depleted said:
Rule number one for writing -- "Know your audience."

Who is your audience?

Seriously, dude? Do you think nonbelievers are interested in a post about a word in the Bible that means serpent AND prognosticating?

In which case, I should go find a math forum and start talking about the rules to writing.
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Rule number one... You don't make the rules

Number 2 .. the blind cannot help the blind...if you don't understand the spiritual power of the serpent within you, you will never understand how or why its used by so many in symbolism etc.
 
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Mitspa said:
Rule number one... You don't make the rules

Number 2 .. the blind cannot help the blind...if you don't understand the spiritual power of the serpent within you, you will never understand how or why its used by so many in symbolism etc.
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You're right. I don't make the rules. That rule was around before America was. lol

So? I don't make the rules, but you do? And based on unfounded assumptions and self-created metaphors?


You're right in the blind can't help here.
 
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