Name It and Claim It

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know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,894
127
63
Yes indeedy Petey!
Nothing better then these WOF preachers, is there?
Telling the people everything they wanna hear in their "Mouth full of well pleasin', as they pick the peoples pockets, shaking their hands, saying "Much Obliged!" "Much Obliged!"

2 Timothy 4
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Acts 20
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Spirit hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
33 I have coveted NO man's silver, or gold, or apparel.

THIS? Is HOW the spirit of anit-christ WORKS!
Show me in scripture where WOF is perverse or draws people away from the truth.
I could make a general claim, as you did, and write the same about what you both say and believe, but without scripture to backup you alleged assertion, there is no proof of it being a fact.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Show me in scripture, how the word of faith we teach is a perversion of scripture.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Show me in scripture where WOF is perverse or draws people away from the truth.
I could make a general claim, as you did, and write the same about what you both say and believe, but without scripture to backup you alleged assertion, there is no proof of it being a fact.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Show me in scripture, how the word of faith we teach is a perversion of scripture.
Its not our word coming from our minds that we preach .Christians are not fortune tellers. (what's the number for the lottery)??. Name it and claim it. LOL

Its not a perversion in respect to the faith of Christ. The one author and finisher thereof. . He knows what is necessary and what a day can bring. We cannot beleive and claim it as if we are in the place of God. .Just name it "let there be light and there was light" he saw the light was good before he did the work faithfully..

We cannot name to claim anything. Who knows what tomorrow will bring or five minutes from now.?

Ecclesiastic 7 in summary informs us. When times are good be happy, and when times call for suffering realize God has made the both. Therefore a person cannot discover one thing about his future . We search the scriptures daily as he gives us our daily, hourly, by the minute food to do His will.

Consider what God has done: Who can straighten what he has made crooked? When times are good, be happy; but when times are bad, consider this: God has made the one as well as "the other" Therefore, no one can discover anything about their future. In this meaningless life of mine I have seen both of these:the righteous perishing in their righteousness, and the wicked living long in their wickedness. Do not be over righteous, neither be overwise— why destroy yourself? Do not be overwicked, and do not be a fool—
why die before your time? It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other.Whoever fears God will avoid all extremes.
Ecclesiastic 7;13-19
 
Mar 28, 2016
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It's easy for a wicked person to say, WOF is of the devil... especially when you don't use a single stitch of scripture to back up your claim.
Its easy to find the mentality of "name it claim it" word of faith.. The I wills have it.

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
1,450
70
48
The thing I question is "Is Bill Johnson and the like teaching a different Gospel"?
Domninionism: once I read about it, it sounds so much like Christian fascism.
Then I looked that up and such a thing exists, and the so-called right is deeply into it, namely all the name it and claim it preachers
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Its easy to find the mentality of "name it claim it" word of faith.. The I wills have it.

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
This not only applies to WOF "doctrines!" It applies to OSAS! It applies to Pre, Mid, or Post "Tribbers!"
Actually? It "applies", to us ALL! :unsure: No "believer", is exempt!
Isaiah 29
13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept (tradition) of men:
15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?

Romans 11
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches(?!), take heed lest he also spare not thee. :unsure:
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,895
670
113
Show me in scripture where WOF is perverse or draws people away from the truth.
I could make a general claim, as you did, and write the same about what you both say and believe, but without scripture to backup you alleged assertion, there is no proof of it being a fact.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Show me in scripture, how the word of faith we teach is a perversion of scripture.
What Jesus promissed will come true. What peole think that Jesus said and is not going conform with Jesus, will not come true.
You claim a lot as truth, but is not Coming true in reality.
Consider by yourself you are right.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
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This not only applies to WOF "doctrines!" It applies to OSAS! It applies to Pre, Mid, or Post "Tribbers!"
Actually? It "applies", to us ALL! :unsure: No "believer", is exempt!
Isaiah 29
13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept (tradition) of men:
15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?

Romans 11
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches(?!), take heed lest he also spare not thee. :unsure:

Two different kinds of works of faith. One living the other dead.

Word Of Faith doctrine is in respect to the person requesting it as if we could know anything about the future. . Like the; "I will build bigger barns" and the next day loose his life. .This shows WOF as a faith that is dead.

Not by the faith of Christ, the work of God produced from above.

OSAS is not a doctrine as a oral tradition of men . As many as the Father gave the Son they alone can come and will. God is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul desires. For he performs that which he does appoint to us. He can make our hearts soft.

Why if you are murmur and dispute against it (the faith of Christ) ?

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: Philipians 2:13-14
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Two different kinds of works of faith. One living the other dead.

Word Of Faith doctrine is in respect to the person requesting it as if we could know anything about the future. . Like the; "I will build bigger barns" and the next day loose his life. .This shows WOF as a faith that is dead.

Not by the faith of Christ, the work of God produced from above.

OSAS is not a doctrine as a oral tradition of men . As many as the Father gave the Son they alone can come and will. God is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul desires. For he performs that which he does appoint to us. He can make our hearts soft.

Why if you are murmur and dispute against it (the faith of Christ) ?

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: Philipians 2:13-14
2 works of faith, indeed! While one is not so much faith, as it is "works" in the eyes of men. Pretty dead!
Yet, the other is "works of faith", that are pleasing to God. Of which, "eyes of men" only see what they want to see. As the remainder goes right over their head!

OSAS, may, as you say, not be a doctrine of men. Yet? The way in which it is taught these days? Leaves ones' for the larger, rather then the smaller part, (falsely) justified, in ones' lack of motovation/s in pressing on to the High(er) Calling of God, in Christ!
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,894
127
63
Its easy to find the mentality of "name it claim it" word of faith.. The I wills have it.

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
That doesn't sound right to me.

Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Psa 37:4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,894
127
63
Its not our word coming from our minds that we preach .Christians are not fortune tellers. (what's the number for the lottery)??. Name it and claim it. LOL

Its not a perversion in respect to the faith of Christ. The one author and finisher thereof. . He knows what is necessary and what a day can bring. We cannot beleive and claim it as if we are in the place of God. .Just name it "let there be light and there was light" he saw the light was good before he did the work faithfully..

We cannot name to claim anything. Who knows what tomorrow will bring or five minutes from now.?

Ecclesiastic 7 in summary informs us. When times are good be happy, and when times call for suffering realize God has made the both. Therefore a person cannot discover one thing about his future . We search the scriptures daily as he gives us our daily, hourly, by the minute food to do His will.

Consider what God has done: Who can straighten what he has made crooked? When times are good, be happy; but when times are bad, consider this: God has made the one as well as "the other" Therefore, no one can discover anything about their future. In this meaningless life of mine I have seen both of these:the righteous perishing in their righteousness, and the wicked living long in their wickedness. Do not be over righteous, neither be overwise— why destroy yourself? Do not be overwicked, and do not be a fool—
why die before your time? It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other.Whoever fears God will avoid all extremes.
Ecclesiastic 7;13-19
Again I disagree, and you are demonstrating that you don't know what WOF is.
We are not taking anything from God, but glorifying Him by the fruit He creates through His word, by our words of faith.
Would you say there are different spiritual levels Christians walk in?
And wouldn't you say a newborn Christian is not on the same level as a mature, seasoned Christian is?
So why do so many of you who disagree with WOF expect those who do believe in WOF to be on the same level and to be just as mature and seasoned as God, and have the same great faith as He does as well?
We are not on the same level as God is, even as a baby Christian isn't on the same level as a pastor.
So stop expecting us to create world like God does. If you can't even believe to get healed, why do you expect EVERYONE who believes in WOF to be creator of worlds and move mountain, and raise EVERYONE from the dead after being buried for a year or two?
As I have said many times before, if you can't believe without ANY DOUBT in your heart, what you are confessing will NOT manifest. It is that simple.
Years ago, I did something similar to what some have done with medications and treatments when they or a family member was ill.
I tried acting on what I thought were my words of faith, while wondering if it would work. That was NOT faith.
And just like many who died when they acted on, what they thought was their faith, I almost lost both houses and forced to live out on the street, both my family and I.
If you are hoping, wishing, or wondering what God's will is, or if He is going to answer your prayer, then prepare yourself for a big letdown.
It's not the easiest thing to believe you or a loved one are healed, when you can both see and feel the disease.
One of the biggest problems with Christian who TRY this WOF stuff, is they THINK they are believing, when they are NOT.
The same holds truth for things you confess.
And aren't you doing the same thing when you are telling other to thank God for saving them, when first, you don't know if it was God's will for that person to be saved, and second, for assuming the person had faith for salvation and that it was done when the person finished the sinner's prayer. You told them to thank God for saving them when neither you or they even knew if God saved them. You can't see their salvation, so how do you know they got saved in the first place?
In other words, you do the very same thing when it comes to saving someone spiritually, as what we do in the natural.
If this WOF stuff is fake or false, then reread Mk 11:23 again.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,894
127
63
What Jesus promissed will come true. What peole think that Jesus said and is not going conform with Jesus, will not come true.
You claim a lot as truth, but is not Coming true in reality.
Consider by yourself you are right.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

Many things take time before you see it manifest.
This is where many Christians waver.
They don't see it immediately or soon after they start, and so they do the same things as the seed that fell on stony ground did... they fall away from believing.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,894
127
63
Two different kinds of works of faith. One living the other dead.

Word Of Faith doctrine is in respect to the person requesting it as if we could know anything about the future. . Like the; "I will build bigger barns" and the next day loose his life. .This shows WOF as a faith that is dead.

Not by the faith of Christ, the work of God produced from above.

OSAS is not a doctrine as a oral tradition of men . As many as the Father gave the Son they alone can come and will. God is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul desires. For he performs that which he does appoint to us. He can make our hearts soft.

Why if you are murmur and dispute against it (the faith of Christ) ?

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: Philipians 2:13-14
You have that wrong sir.
It's not about KNOWING THE FUTURE, BUT KNOWING WHAT GOD HAS JUST DONE FOR US AND WHAT HE WILL DO IN THE FUTURE.
It's about, So shall God's word be that goeth forth out of OUR mouth: it shall not return unto US void, but it shall accomplish that which WE please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto WE sent it.
God's word does the work, NOT US, and NOT GOD HIMSELF.
It is the seed of God that is sent that does the work. We are called to both believe that word and act on it.
Many of us don't know the future, MOST OF THE TIME, but we DO know what will happen in the future concerning the things we confess in faith.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,894
127
63
2 works of faith, indeed! While one is not so much faith, as it is "works" in the eyes of men. Pretty dead!
Yet, the other is "works of faith", that are pleasing to God. Of which, "eyes of men" only see what they want to see. As the remainder goes right over their head!
Can you give two examples of this living faith or works of faith you have done, that was pleasing to God?
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
5,047
2,085
113
What does the word of God say? How it is written?
What is true, the word of God or what we see, hear, and experience?
After all, Jesus prayed, "Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven."
Do you see His will done on earth as it is in heaven?
Is there any sick in heaven?
Is there any suffering there?
Has everyone on earth come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and actually received Him into their heart?
Stop looking at the natural for the answers, and start looking to and keeping your focus on the word of God.
Of course it is both true and real.
If it works for both my family and I, then God, who is a respecter of no one, cannot favor us over you, by doing what we say and ask for and not you.
In fact, I can guarantee you this much, it works against you because of what you say.
Go to the nearest hospital, then, and heal everyone. Better yet, go to every hospital in the world and heal everyone. What? You won't? I'm not surprised.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,895
670
113
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

Many things take time before you see it manifest.
This is where many Christians waver.
They don't see it immediately or soon after they start, and so they do the same things as the seed that fell on stony ground did... they fall away from believing.
What has this to do with: name it and claime it theologie?
Yes, some what Jesus promissed will come in reality when he comes ore eternity.
But the name it and claime it is an empty word theologie which seeds false hope. While our Lord seeds a living hope.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,895
670
113
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

Many things take time before you see it manifest.
This is where many Christians waver.
They don't see it immediately or soon after they start, and so they do the same things as the seed that fell on stony ground did... they fall away from believing.
You ask is there sickness in heaven.
No its not, but living in heaven is different. Btw which human is exactly now present in heaven?
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,894
127
63
Go to the nearest hospital, then, and heal everyone. Better yet, go to every hospital in the world and heal everyone. What? You won't? I'm not surprised.
Tell me please, how does this WOF thing work?
Does the power to heal come from within you, or from God outside of you?
Are you able to heal everyone?
I'm not.
I'm not surprised either, because NEITHER WAS JESUS ABLE TO HEAL EVERYONE.
You heard right. Jesus was NOT ABLE to heal everyone.
Why not?
Please, do tell.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,894
127
63
What has this to do with: name it and claime it theologie?
Yes, some what Jesus promissed will come in reality when he comes ore eternity.
But the name it and claime it is an empty word theologie which seeds false hope. While our Lord seeds a living hope.
One of the greatest misunderstandings people have about WOF is thinking we only have to say or confess something once, and poof, it appears.
No, that is not how things work, most of the time.
If you were to describe faith, would you say it's a confident assurance of what you asked for will be granted?
That's a basic understanding of what most believe it to be.
Now let's say for argument's sake, you are praying for your healing from whatever.
So you go to God and ask for Him to heal you.
What next?
After you pray, what do you do after, after you see no change?
You were so sure God would heal you, and yet nothing happened.
Well, I guess it just wasn't God's will for you to be healed.
That must be what His will is for you in heaven then. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
If you would stop placing time limits on these promises, you might start reaping the benefits from them.
What does Heb 10:23 have to do with WOF, you ask?

Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering;(for he is faithful that promised)

After you pray, more likely than not, nothing will happen, and then you enter into the interim or testing period.
The time of testing of your faith.
This is the time you have to deal with the god of this world, and fight the good fight of faith, by holding fast to your profession/confession of faith WITHOUT ANY WAVERING WHATSOEVER, by calling things which be not as though they were, based on the promises of God.
Is it a sin to believe you are healed after you asked God for the healing, expecting it to manifest, even though your body screams otherwise?
Name it claim it has its roots in believing and expecting God to give you your request for healing even though your flesh says your still sick. If you reject what you feel and believe and accept what is written, if you continue, then you will know the truth, and the truth of the word of Gdo will MAKE you free/healed.
This is where you hold fast to your confession that God healed you, even though you see no improvement.
This is where you look to God's word for assurance, that He will do according to His word/promise.
You don't eat once in your life and expect that to do the job for the rest of your life, right?
Well, because most of us live in such doubt, it doesn't take much for us to fall back into our old ways of looking at how things work in the natural world, and applying that to our situation, while taking our eyes off from God's word.
To keep your attention and faith on and in God, it becomes necessary, many times, to continue to thank God out loud for your healing when your situation says otherwise and your mind tells you God's answer is no.
If the devil can keep your thinking on the natural and off the promises of God, He will whip you every time.
That's when it helps to start thanking and praising God verbally, for giving you what you asked for.
And if you will do this without wavering, or being in doubt, or get off from believing in God and His promises, by wondering, wishing, or hoping, but hold fast your confession of faith, that God has healed you when you prayed, if you don't quit, IT WILL COME TO PASS, GUARANTEED!!!
That is basically what name it claim it is about and how it works.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,894
127
63
You ask is there sickness in heaven.
No its not, but living in heaven is different. Btw which human is exactly now present in heaven?
The point is, if it's not God's will for you to be sick in heaven, then it's not His will for you to be sick on earth.
That just happens to be one of the things Jesus bore on the cross and is one of your covenant rights as a child of God.
It is one of the laws of life in Christ Jesus that freed you from the law of sin and death.
Sickness and disease is one of the fruits of sin that Jesus bore in His body and nailed to the cross.
As Jesus is in me, so am I in this world.
Is the Jesus that is in you sick? Then neither should you be.
That is the will of God for you and all of God's children.