Near Death Experiences

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tek

Banned
Sep 25, 2012
283
2
0
#1
Penny Sartori has worked as a nurse in UK for the past 21 years, 17 of those being in Intensive Care Unit. In 2005 she was awarded a PhD for her extensive research into death experiences. Her research was supervised by Peter Fenwick ( M.B.B.Chir., D.P.M Department of Mental Health, Southampton Institute of Psychiatry, Kings College, London) and Paul Badham (Ph.D. Alister Hardy Religious Experience Research Centre, University of Wales, Lampeter)
Here are the results of her research…..it’s just amazing and mind-boggling even for a person who believes in God
http://www.btci.org/bioethics/2012/videos2012/vid2.html
 
Oct 27, 2012
300
5
0
#2
Warm greetings to you, TEK! Thank you for bringing this item forward. There are indeed many people who have undergone Near-Death Experiences (NDEs) in the world including many religious figures. For quite a number of years such phenomenon has been reported. A near-death experience is when one may be declared clinically "dead" and then is resuscitated but during the time they were declared as "gone" they experienced many things including visits to Heaven or Hell as may be the case and came back to discuss their experiences. They also could both see and hear things that baffled doctors who thought that in their condition would be impossible to do.

Most recently, Dr. Eben Alexander, a noted neurosurgeon, Doctor of Medicine, gave an interview to NEWSWEEK Magazine (October 15, 2012) where he told his story of having had a NDE. It is so very convincing and has gone viral around the world. His page is entitled "My Proof Of Heaven." He was in a coma and did not believe in this kind of phenomenon but after his experience he had a much different outlook! His article is well worth reading by those with an open mind. What he saw and has to say is truly remarkable!

On another related note, for those who may be Catholic as well as all others, the following short article by a Vatican spokesman may be of great interest to you.


Vatican Spokesman

Therefore, these experiences are quite real. There is no reason to deny that they are happening and more and more leading world authorities are now speaking in support of this very real matter.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#3
I believe these experiences are real but are not that trustworthy seeing that many contradict themselves at best and Scripture at worst.

just be careful...

(2Th 2:9-10) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
 
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A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#4
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#5
NDE's are previews of the last thing your physical brain sees before you leave earth, not the first thing your spirit experiences when it's free of your body. They are heavily influenced by culture and physical chemicals that you will leave behind when you go to God. Your new body, when you rise, will be different, and not subject to the environment of sin that caused the chemicals and culture to be what they are.
 

tek

Banned
Sep 25, 2012
283
2
0
#6
NDE's are previews of the last thing your physical brain sees before you leave earth, not the first thing your spirit experiences when it's free of your body. They are heavily influenced by culture and physical chemicals that you will leave behind when you go to God. Your new body, when you rise, will be different, and not subject to the environment of sin that caused the chemicals and culture to be what they are.
not really to do with a brain or chemicals as some people experience an out of body state and accurately describe what's going on around. There are also so-called "shared" death experiences. Please listen full report
http://www.btci.org/bioethics/2012/videos2012/vid2.html
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#7
OOBE's occur without death. They are a form of ESP, as are knowledge in patient 11 and I think it was 13. Some occult people practice OOBE, calling it "astral travel". It is many times accurate, and cases are on record of people conducting business, even one who got married, while outside their bodies. In the middle ages, it was called "bilocation" and was done by several of the classical "saints". The religion is called "eckankar" and the military has done studies of its potential use for spying.

On the knowledge and shared experiences, compare Dr. Ramakrishna Rao's work on "Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation", which demonstrate pretty conclusively that such abilities are culturally increased, and also either that such information is transferrable, or that the Bible is a lie when it says we only die once. Again, the military has done research for spy purposes.

The hand change in patient 60 is hardly surprising given the healings I have seen and have records of. The interdependence of body and mind can be photographed by Kirlian photography.

There is a Christian explanation. The Jews teach that when Adam was created, before he sinned, his consciousness extended from one end of the earth to the other. So, the best explanation is that we are really timeless and spaceless, but have restricted our perception of God and forgotten about it. These experiences are just momentary lapses in our restriction. Rom. 8:38-39 echoes the teaching. As restored in Christ, we are spaceless and timeless.

The man's comments at time on the video 58:11 are almost funny compared to Paul's comment about the "third heaven" (2 Cor. 12:2), when you know that sorcerers practice interdimensional/inter heaven travel. The Tibetan book of the dead requires that chapters be read to the corpse for 7 days after death so that the soul can be guided to make the correct turns through these heavens to get to nirvana.

I know a fictional parody of OOBE. A private detective on old time radio (download at archive.org) in a show called "Rogue's Gallery" would go in every episode to Cloud 8 and meet Eugor, his doppelganger. There is also the movie "Flatliners", based on deliberate induction of NDE's as a recreational activity.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#8
Interesting post here. The government's rear viewing projects are well documented. But I think you're missing the point friend. God certainly does interact with our spirits and souls during this life. When our bodies experience temporary death: that doesn't cease. In fact, He often draws closer during this time of great personal crisis.

When I read this post, it looks like you are stating that God has not reached out to various people during their NDE to accomplish His purpose in their life and in the world when their bodies are revived back to life when He has.

Some assert that every NDE is simply a biological progression of the brain within the context of reductive materialism. Though reductive materialists in science have constructed a model for this (I have a publication around here somewhere in my library with it), it fails imo (and yes I have studied it). They literally attempt to show that all spiritual evidence and consciousness are merely a result of biological chemical processes. Though they are some of the most brilliant minds on the planet: they stumble badly in their attempt to do this.

Now the power of the occult, government rear viewing projects, ESP, etc... exist, but so do many spiritual NDE experiences where God has taken that opportunity to interact with people.

He CAN do that. To say that He cannot do that or that He never has done that is to make a false assertion because the evidence is that He certainly has done that... not with every NDE but with many of them.

OOBE's occur without death. They are a form of ESP, as are knowledge in patient 11 and I think it was 13. Some occult people practice OOBE, calling it "astral travel". It is many times accurate, and cases are on record of people conducting business, even one who got married, while outside their bodies. In the middle ages, it was called "bilocation" and was done by several of the classical "saints". The religion is called "eckankar" and the military has done studies of its potential use for spying.

On the knowledge and shared experiences, compare Dr. Ramakrishna Rao's work on "Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation", which demonstrate pretty conclusively that such abilities are culturally increased, and also either that such information is transferrable, or that the Bible is a lie when it says we only die once. Again, the military has done research for spy purposes.

The hand change in patient 60 is hardly surprising given the healings I have seen and have records of. The interdependence of body and mind can be photographed by Kirlian photography.

There is a Christian explanation. The Jews teach that when Adam was created, before he sinned, his consciousness extended from one end of the earth to the other. So, the best explanation is that we are really timeless and spaceless, but have restricted our perception of God and forgotten about it. These experiences are just momentary lapses in our restriction. Rom. 8:38-39 echoes the teaching. As restored in Christ, we are spaceless and timeless.

The man's comments at time on the video 58:11 are almost funny compared to Paul's comment about the "third heaven" (2 Cor. 12:2), when you know that sorcerers practice interdimensional/inter heaven travel. The Tibetan book of the dead requires that chapters be read to the corpse for 7 days after death so that the soul can be guided to make the correct turns through these heavens to get to nirvana.

I know a fictional parody of OOBE. A private detective on old time radio (download at archive.org) in a show called "Rogue's Gallery" would go in every episode to Cloud 8 and meet Eugor, his doppelganger. There is also the movie "Flatliners", based on deliberate induction of NDE's as a recreational activity.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#9
The most interesting ones that I have studied are where God gave a Christian a word of knowledge that he was going to heal them of a terminal condition on a specific date. They then announced that God is going to heal them of a terminal condition on a specific date. They've even had their friends and family gather around. They then died but within a few minutes came back to life completely healed and went on to become speakers telling of what God did for them. They recount that Jesus appeared and healed them when they were in transition and sent them back. That's a miracle friend from God that had nothing to do with the last image they saw as they died. I would have to dig through my extensive library to find them; however, as I haven't visited those in years. But they are here SOMEWHERE... lol.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#10
NDEs muddy up the clear revelation on death given in the Bible.

All we need to know is not to refuse the message of the Gospel.
We need to know of the awesome blessing of relationship with the Father, through Jesus, empowered by the Holy Spirit.


Hebrews 12
25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, 26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I shake[h] not only the earth, but also heaven.” 27 Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may[j] serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#11
Who's to say that these NDE aren't concocted by Satan or his minions to stray some away from the truth? Give us an easy feeling about death and the afterlife, live how ever you want, etc. etc. Satan can appear as an angle of light, he's a wolf in sheep's clothing and the father of lies. Frankly, none of this can really be tested, and IMO if it can't be tested then it's unreliable. Take it all with a grain of salt.
 
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Abiding

Guest
#12
:rolleyes:I had a death experience in 1972 never mix heroin with reds
anyway i held the record for minutes dead.
I dont believe the experience i had was spiritual.
But what do i know. Let the experts sort it out.:cool:
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#13
Genuine NDEs and bodily resurrections, properly understood, do not "muddy up" the message the Gospel.

The NDEs and bodily resurrections that align with scripture (both the ones in the Bible and the ones occurring in our lifetimes today) are yet one more evidence of God's existence and the Gospel.

In the Old Testament, there are three cases of bodily resurrection. The aggregate of Biblical commentaries, encyclopedias, and hermeneutics study guides assert the two that Elijah and Elisha raised from the dead actually were dead before they were revived from death back to life though the third case can be argued either way:

1. The prophet Elijah prays and God raises a young boy from death (1 Kings 17:17-24). 1 Kings 17:17 Some time later the son of the woman who owned the house became ill. He grew worse and worse, and finally stopped breathing.

2. Elisha raises the son of the Shunammite woman from the dead (2 Kings 4:32-37). 2 Kings 4:32 When Elisha reached the house, there was the boy lying dead on his couch.

3. A dead man's body that was thrown into the dead Elisha's tomb is either resurrected (e.g. dead) or revived (e.g. not dead) when the body touches Elisha's bones and gets up and flees from the approaching Moabites along with the burial party (2 Kings 13:21). 2 Kings 13:21 Once while some Israelites were burying a man, suddenly they saw a band of raiders; so they threw the man's body into Elisha's tomb. When the body touched Elisha's bones, the man came to life and stood up on his feet.

In the New Testament, there are the following:

1. Jesus raising people from the dead such as the daughter of Jairus (Luke 8:41, 42, 49-55), the son of the widow of Nain from the dead (Luke 7:11-15), and Lazarus (John 11:1-44).

2. At Jesus's resurrection, the tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised back to life. They came out of the tombs and went into Jerusalem where they talked with many people (Matthew 27:52-53).

3. Jesus instructing his followers to "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons" (Matthew 10:8) and Jesus's followers doing exactly that as in the case of Peter raising Dorcas from the dead (Acts 9:36-41) and Paul raising Eutychus from the dead (Acts 20:9, 10).

We are also seeing modern accounts of NDE's and bodily resurrestions in our lifetimes. There are documented cases in the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries of Christian missionaries praying for people who have just died to be brought back to life (as per Matthew 10:8) and it happening.

Here's a recent example: Former Muslim raised from the dead shocked her neighbors, won many to Christ | Godreports



NDEs muddy up the clear revelation on death given in the Bible.

All we need to know is not to refuse the message of the Gospel.
We need to know of the awesome blessing of relationship with the Father, through Jesus, empowered by the Holy Spirit.


Hebrews 12
25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, 26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I shake[h] not only the earth, but also heaven.” 27 Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may[j] serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.
 
D

DeborahLight

Guest
#14
After listening to this woman’s unbiased research, which for me confirms the Bible rather than causing inconsistencies; many of the controlled group studies had only about 2 accounts of NDE each, which was an almost immiscible number within each of the controlled research study groups.

Not all accounts were positive and the others just confirmed coming into a welcoming, warming environment; however the majority of patients that were part of the controlled groups had no confirmed real NDE at all while they were being treated in the ICU wards.


The reason I believe that some do offer these accounts of NDE, is to be a reminder to us here to examine ourselves daily. It’s disturbing that only about 2 out of each controlled group actually felt peace, or something of the like and a couple of NDE patients described fearful experiences.

All I can think of is examine, examine, examine. So many times people want to strain a gnat, but they swallow a camel; that is the scripture that came to me when responding to this post, along with 3 others.


Matthew 23:24 KJV - Ye blind guides, which strain at a - Bible Gateway
Matthew 7:13-14 KJV - Enter ye in at the strait gate: for - Bible Gateway
Matthew 7:21 KJV - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, - Bible Gateway


We should be careful of dismissing things we do not understand. No person can fully explain who God is and He is something that cannot be fully comprehended with our humanistic minds, which try to take everything we do not understand and put it into the box of our own limited understanding.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#15
Yes, both types exist. But we don't want to attribute what God does to the devil and visa versa. Obviously, qualifying these experiences is important to determine which ones align with scripture and which ones do not. Genuine NDEs where God is using the occasion to bring the person to Christ resulting in the person's salvation (and testimony) after their mortal bodies are revived should not be discounted nor attributed to Satan.


Who's to say that these NDE aren't concocted by Satan or his minions to stray some away from the truth? Give us an easy feeling about death and the afterlife, live how ever you want, etc. etc. Satan can appear as an angle of light, he's a wolf in sheep's clothing and the father of lies. Frankly, none of this can really be tested, and IMO if it can't be tested then it's unreliable. Take it all with a grain of salt.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#16
Interesting post here. The government's rear viewing projects are well documented. But I think you're missing the point friend. God certainly does interact with our spirits and souls during this life. When our bodies experience temporary death: that doesn't cease. In fact, He often draws closer during this time of great personal crisis.

When I read this post, it looks like you are stating that God has not reached out to various people during their NDE to accomplish His purpose in their life and in the world when their bodies are revived back to life when He has.

Some assert that every NDE is simply a biological progression of the brain within the context of reductive materialism. Though reductive materialists in science have constructed a model for this (I have a publication around here somewhere in my library with it), it fails imo (and yes I have studied it). They literally attempt to show that all spiritual evidence and consciousness are merely a result of biological chemical processes. Though they are some of the most brilliant minds on the planet: they stumble badly in their attempt to do this.

Now the power of the occult, government rear viewing projects, ESP, etc... exist, but so do many spiritual NDE experiences where God has taken that opportunity to interact with people.

He CAN do that. To say that He cannot do that or that He never has done that is to make a false assertion because the evidence is that He certainly has done that... not with every NDE but with many of them.
No, I wasn't saying that at all. God reaches out to us in everything, from the smallest breeze to the biggest world crisis. And all of the natural and biological processes in life. What I posted was to to keep balance between some who think that all NDE's are from God, and that what people see in them is what heaven actually looks like. Also to outline the wonderful potential that God has put into life that few people ever realize. I've seen many converted to New Age religions by NDE's. The next post after the one I'm answering now, speaks of a major miracle God worked through one.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#17
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#18
The Story of Mickey Robinson, Airplane Crash Surviver (NDE).

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsERn0RJhKg[/video]

"Life after Death: the Evidence" by Dinesh D'Souza (Interview) Las Vegas Bible Study

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn3pPDRpW58[/video]
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#19
The most interesting ones that I have studied are where God gave a Christian a word of knowledge that he was going to heal them of a terminal condition on a specific date. They then announced that God is going to heal them of a terminal condition on a specific date. They've even had their friends and family gather around. They then died but within a few minutes came back to life completely healed and went on to become speakers telling of what God did for them. They recount that Jesus appeared and healed them when they were in transition and sent them back. That's a miracle friend from God that had nothing to do with the last image they saw as they died. I would have to dig through my extensive library to find them; however, as I haven't visited those in years. But they are here SOMEWHERE... lol.
Can I ask for a clarification? Did the word of knowledge come during an NDE? Or is the NDE the event that happened on the day they were to get healed? Also, use use plural (ones); do you know of more than one such instance?
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#20
The Bible lists several people who were dead and came back to life. Jesus, of course, but also Lazarus, the daughter of the synagogue ruler, the son of the widow raised by Elijah (I Kings 17:9). Is it just coincidence that we have no NDE reports from any of them?