nephilim

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ckhascall

New member
Jun 2, 2019
23
13
3
#1
would someone like t weigh in on who the " daughters of men " and " sons of God " are in Genesis 6:1-4?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,087
14,711
113
#2
Good luck my friend....and welcome to CC.........literally the daughters of Adam in Hebrew....................
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
3,059
627
113
#3
The following is taken from Dr Paul Martin Henebury's website, "Dr Reluctant"... His conclusion, however, differs from mine (in what he views as the most likely choice among these three options):

1. The “Sons of God” are angels/spirits.

Advocates include: G. Wenham[3], Wood, Kalisch, Unger, Van Gemeren, Sauer, Yates, and Clines[4].

Fallen angels/angelic beings cohabited with humans. These angelic beings made marriages with the fairest of the women. Their offspring are the nephilim/giants of v. 4.


2. They are Sethites.

Advocates: Calvin, Luther, Poole, Keil, Lange, J. Murray, Aalders, Sailhamer, Green, Scofield, and Scroggie.

What is involved is the mixing of the godly Sethite line with the ungodly line of Cain. This polluting of the line of the promised seed (which Balaam also later encouraged) is what provoked God to call for the Flood.


3. They are Princely Rulers/Dynastic Rulers.

Advocates: Kline, Millard, and Dexinger.

Men of noble birth or princely genealogy married below themselves. The bene ha elohim were “sons of the gods”, a term used of kings in extra-biblical sources[5].

[end quoting]

____________

I believe Option 3 is the most likely, as I do not believe Job 1 & 2 is something which transpired UP IN Heaven (but on the earth, instead), based on a study I did, in those chpts.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,220
846
113
#4
The following is taken from Dr Paul Martin Henebury's website, "Dr Reluctant"... His conclusion, however, differs from mine (in what he views as the most likely choice among these three options):

1. The “Sons of God” are angels/spirits.

Advocates include: G. Wenham[3], Wood, Kalisch, Unger, Van Gemeren, Sauer, Yates, and Clines[4].

Fallen angels/angelic beings cohabited with humans. These angelic beings made marriages with the fairest of the women. Their offspring are the nephilim/giants of v. 4.


2. They are Sethites.

Advocates: Calvin, Luther, Poole, Keil, Lange, J. Murray, Aalders, Sailhamer, Green, Scofield, and Scroggie.

What is involved is the mixing of the godly Sethite line with the ungodly line of Cain. This polluting of the line of the promised seed (which Balaam also later encouraged) is what provoked God to call for the Flood.


3. They are Princely Rulers/Dynastic Rulers.

Advocates: Kline, Millard, and Dexinger.

Men of noble birth or princely genealogy married below themselves. The bene ha elohim were “sons of the gods”, a term used of kings in extra-biblical sources[5].

[end quoting]

____________

I believe Option 3 is the most likely, as I do not believe Job 1 & 2 is something which transpired UP IN Heaven (but on the earth, instead), based on a study I did, in those chpts.
i believe its 1. these angels made people with humans and come giants.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
3,059
627
113
#5
i believe its 1. these angels made people with humans and come giants.
Most people I've heard who take that view ^ , also say "because, see here in Job..." (and I already mentioned briefly why I do not believe Job 1 & 2 took place in heaven, but on the earth, based on the study I did in those chpts/in that Book).
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,220
846
113
#6
Most people I've heard who take that view ^ , also say "because, see here in Job..." (and I already mentioned briefly why I do not believe Job 1 & 2 took place in heaven, but on the earth, based on the study I did in those chpts/in that Book).
where did nephilim come from then? you should believe #1 too

i listen to dispensationalist pastors alot. mostly actually, exclusively to be honest its all i listen to prety much. i love them

they agree its #1. you should go for party line hahaha :D
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,504
1,003
113
#7
Good luck my friend....and welcome to CC.........literally the daughters of Adam in Hebrew....................
Yes the generation of Adam. . natural unconverted mankind.

Sons of God (2 kinds)

(1) They can be administering angels (no DNA) as spirits of truth or lying spirits.

(2)They can be in respect to one born again Sons of God converted mankind (DNA). . led by the Holy Spirit. The born again generation of Christ again as they are led by the Spirit of Christ

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The other sons as god (no DNA) as ministers of lies they left their first place of habitation and will be destroyed . They would be as many not led by the Holy Spirit of God but rather led by the devil .They are not part of the discussion in Genesis 6

Genesis 6 is in regard to being unevenly yoked as those who spill the seed in defiance of the will of God like Onan . Seeing no value in spiritual unseen matters.

Genesis 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother

Believers as sons of God led by the Holy Spirit should marry believers. God reserved the seed through Noah's family

.
 

ckhascall

New member
Jun 2, 2019
23
13
3
#8
Yes the generation of Adam. . natural unconverted mankind.

Sons of God (2 kinds)

(1) They can be administering angels (no DNA) as spirits of truth or lying spirits.

(2)They can be in respect to one born again Sons of God converted mankind (DNA). . led by the Holy Spirit. The born again generation of Christ again as they are led by the Spirit of Christ

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The other sons as god (no DNA) as ministers of lies they left their first place of habitation and will be destroyed . They would be as many not led by the Holy Spirit of God but rather led by the devil .They are not part of the discussion in Genesis 6

Genesis 6 is in regard to being unevenly yoked as those who spill the seed in defiance of the will of God like Onan . Seeing no value in spiritual unseen matters.

Genesis 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother

Believers as sons of God led by the Holy Spirit should marry believers. God reserved the seed through Noah's family

.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,725
501
113
#10
The book of Enoch explains the Nephilim, scripture that has been accepted has very scant information. The Catholic council decided that this book was too Jewish, and during one of the anti-Semite years they decided it was not authentic. Until that time it was accepted, with even reference to it in our scripture.

Enoch tells us that a large group of angels rebelled. There is one class of angels that can take on human form as we are told in the book of Hebrews when we are told to be kind to strangers because they may be angels. These rebellious angels married humans and produced wicked and huge people. They overran the earth, with appetites so large the earth could not support them. God sent the flood to wipe them out to protect His people.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
3,059
627
113
#11
where did nephilim come from then? you should believe #1 too
i listen to dispensationalist pastors alot. mostly actually, exclusively to be honest its all i listen to prety much. i love them
they agree its #1. you should go for party line hahaha :D
:D Well, I *COULD "go for the party line," but I'm having a hard time "unseeing" what I see in Job 1 & 2 (where is often drawn their arguments)...

Consider (small part of the study):

Strong's says:

"[re: H5303 Nephilim (3x)] Or nphil {nef-eel'}; from naphal [H5307]; properly, a feller, i.e. A bully or tyrant -- giant."

[and BibleHub says...]

"[re: H5303 Nephilim (3x)] Definition: "giants", name of two peoples, one before the flood and one after the flood"

____________

Considering what Job 1:6, 2:1 and 1:7,8, 2:1,2,3 have to say, I'm not convinced that this took place "up in heaven" because if there's just one other verse that states that people on the earth can/have/will-ever "H3320 H5921" [in relation to God] then we should at least consider this a possibility here in this passage as well (and THERE IS! [I'm not telling where, right now, you'll have to find it on your own! :D ])

--H3320 - yatsab - to present (Job 1:6; 2:1)

--H5921 - al - against/before (Job 1:6; 2:1 [2x])


...and I'm not conviced that Satan's response to God's question ("whence come you?") being merely "from the earth" (implying he's no longer located there), but instead, "from ROAMING TO AND FRO in/on the earth, and WALKING BACK AND FORTH in it" (more implying that he has come to a stop in one location of it: Job's-ville!! To "set against [H7760 H5921]" him, as I understand it [similarly to what we see regarding "Simon, Simon [i.e. Peter]" in Jesus' words regarding him in Luke 22:31])

There are other reasons, from the text, I won't go into here...
:)
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
3,059
627
113
#13
[similarly to what we see regarding "Simon, Simon [i.e. Peter]" in Jesus' words regarding him in Luke 22:31])
I should have said, "regarding 'all y'all [plural] in Luke 22:31"... it's in verse 32 that it's "singular" ("But I have prayed for you [singular] that..." ...[all "singular" here in v.32])
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,725
501
113
#15
I did a blog on this subject and you can find it Here
When it was decided to toss out the book of Enoch they tossed out hope of understanding the truth of the sons of man and daughters of men. Scripture did not toss it out, you would think that scripture would be followed.
 

ckhascall

New member
Jun 2, 2019
23
13
3
#16
:D Well, I *COULD "go for the party line," but I'm having a hard time "unseeing" what I see in Job 1 & 2 (where is often drawn their arguments)...

Consider (small part of the study):

Strong's says:

"[re: H5303 Nephilim (3x)] Or nphil {nef-eel'}; from naphal [H5307]; properly, a feller, i.e. A bully or tyrant -- giant."

[and BibleHub says...]

"[re: H5303 Nephilim (3x)] Definition: "giants", name of two peoples, one before the flood and one after the flood"

____________

Considering what Job 1:6, 2:1 and 1:7,8, 2:1,2,3 have to say, I'm not convinced that this took place "up in heaven" because if there's just one other verse that states that people on the earth can/have/will-ever "H3320 H5921" [in relation to God] then we should at least consider this a possibility here in this passage as well (and THERE IS! [I'm not telling where, right now, you'll have to find it on your own! :D ])

--H3320 - yatsab - to present (Job 1:6; 2:1)

--H5921 - al - against/before (Job 1:6; 2:1 [2x])


...and I'm not conviced that Satan's response to God's question ("whence come you?") being merely "from the earth" (implying he's no longer located there), but instead, "from ROAMING TO AND FRO in/on the earth, and WALKING BACK AND FORTH in it" (more implying that he has come to a stop in one location of it: Job's-ville!! To "set against [H7760 H5921]" him, as I understand it [similarly to what we see regarding "Simon, Simon [i.e. Peter]" in Jesus' words regarding him in Luke 22:31])

There are other reasons, from the text, I won't go into here...
:)
 

ckhascall

New member
Jun 2, 2019
23
13
3
#17
interesting, thank you. but... Angelic cohabitation with mankind seems to be a stretch and a reach. Why would a spirit being, that is sexless and deathless and without physical form and have no need to perpetuate their kind be able to do such an act? And who's to say they have the right equipment? Are not Angles gender grammatical? Where does the Bible say they ever took a body? Also, Genesis 1"4 seems to indicate the Nephilim were on the earth at that time and afterward so couldn't their existence been the result of a cohabitation of the sons of god with the daughters of men? Daughters being of the linage of Cain and men being the linage of Seth?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,504
1,003
113
#18
The book of Enoch explains the Nephilim, scripture that has been accepted has very scant information. The Catholic council decided that this book was too Jewish, and during one of the anti-Semite years they decided it was not authentic. Until that time it was accepted, with even reference to it in our scripture.

Enoch tells us that a large group of angels rebelled. There is one class of angels that can take on human form as we are told in the book of Hebrews when we are told to be kind to strangers because they may be angels. These rebellious angels married humans and produced wicked and huge people. They overran the earth, with appetites so large the earth could not support them. God sent the flood to wipe them out to protect His people.
How would that pertain to the gospel meaning. . . the golden thread woven throughout the scriptures?

No book of Enoch or Catholic council. The commandment to Adam a creature formed from the dust DNA was to be fruitful and multiple. Angels cannot multiple .

Angels cannot take on form of shapeshifters other than special effect department Hollywood. If they could take on form ( shapeshifters ) it would of been used in the garden when the father of lies put his words on the lips of the serpent a creature that has DNA. Or with Peter in Mathew 16 When God said to Peter get behind me Satan you have in mind the things of men, not the things of shapeshifters.

In order to stop the madness of the false prophets Balaam, God who has not form put his words on the mouth of that beast in the same way as in the garden . God does not change shift into a donkey

Believers as sons of God the renown multiplying with natural born mankind as daughters of men .Don't be unevenly yoked.

God sent the flood to reserve the seed Christ which was fulfilled in the Son of man Jesus. The father puts His words in his mouth as in the last days he spoke through his Son who came to do the will of the father.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
11,125
5,792
113
73
#19
When it was decided to toss out the book of Enoch they tossed out hope of understanding the truth of the sons of man and daughters of men. Scripture did not toss it out, you would think that scripture would be followed.
Blik, you had better toss that book out also. You rob God (in your mind) of His power over the spirit world. Tell, me: once a third of the angels rebelled would scripture call them God's sons? To say a spirit mingled with humans is not Kosher, in my book. Devils know of God's power and they tremble. James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
 

ckhascall

New member
Jun 2, 2019
23
13
3
#20
How would that pertain to the gospel meaning. . . the golden thread woven throughout the scriptures?

No book of Enoch or Catholic council. The commandment to Adam a creature formed from the dust DNA was to be fruitful and multiple. Angels cannot multiple .

Angels cannot take on form of shapeshifters other than special effect department Hollywood. If they could take on form ( shapeshifters ) it would of been used in the garden when the father of lies put his words on the lips of the serpent a creature that has DNA. Or with Peter in Mathew 16 When God said to Peter get behind me Satan you have in mind the things of men, not the things of shapeshifters.

In order to stop the madness of the false prophets Balaam, God who has not form put his words on the mouth of that beast in the same way as in the garden . God does not change shift into a donkey

Believers as sons of God the renown multiplying with natural born mankind as daughters of men .Don't be unevenly yoked.

God sent the flood to reserve the seed Christ which was fulfilled in the Son of man Jesus. The father puts His words in his mouth as in the last days he spoke through his Son who came to do the will of the father.