New Covenant came when?

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gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#1
Just a quick post to stimulate some thought.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

now people read this and its context and assume that this covenant only came after Jesus came. This would be an error and it can be easily proved. However it does apply to Jesus also in a new way but lets focus on where this statement first applied.

Its a quote from Jeremiah who prophesied their captivity to Babylon but also some hope.

Jer 31:27 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
Jer 31:28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.
Jer 31:29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
Jer 31:30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.



Hebrews is quoting a prophecy made to Israel that applied at the time they were brought back out of captivity. This "new covenant" began way back then well before Jesus came on the scene as a man.

Jer 31:17 And there is hope in thine end, saith the LORD, that thy children shall come again to their own border.

This is not the first time that God has prophecies this either. In fact he promised this before they entered the promised land years before.

Deu 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
Deu 30:2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
Deu 30:3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
Deu 30:4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
Deu 30:5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Talking about when God would bring them back out of their captivity after they had received the curses.

Deu 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deu 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deu 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

The bolded is righteousness by faith as Paul said:

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Paul uses it in regards to Christ because in his time Christ was the fullest an most current revelation of God freeing them from the consequences of our sin. But this first applied as can clearly be seen when God brought Israel back out of capacity to Babylon because of their sin.

There is no denying it the new covenant started long before Jesus but met its best and most true account in Jesus.

Study around the texts for full context which really opens it up.

Blessings.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#2
The new covenant is a blood covenant. It was sealed in Jesus' blood at the cross. It was not in existence before then.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#3
Ummmmm, nope. The New Covenant went into effect upon Jesus death. Just as Hebrews 9:16-18 tells us.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#5
Nothing reveals a personal bias as clearly as when someone disagrees with no proof and clearly does not read the post that totally puts their view in question.
 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
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#6
During the OT time, all covenants between tribes were blood made. As the animal's blood was shed, it represented the promise each made to the other "and may the same thing happen to me if I break this covenant". Sometimes in the pagan cultures, they would cut themselves and mingle the bloods.

The first covenant made between God and Abraham was of blood. Abraham had to kill an animal and cut it in two and God walked between the two pieces. God was standing behind only what he promised Abraham.

Jesus took the cup - said it was his blood shed to establish the new covenant. And so we partake of this new covenant every time we take communion. Blood of Jesus began the New Covenant.

But all covenants were established by blood. Animals first - Jesus last. And part of this new covenant was the indwelling of the Holy Spirit Who would write upon our hearts God's precepts for us to follow. None of this could happen without the blood shed by Jesus.
 
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Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
7
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#7
1 John 2:6-9King James Version (KJV)

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

The Everlasting Priesthood through The Son of God has no beginning or ending, even though the covenant is a blood covenant.
Revelation 13:7-9King James Version (KJV)

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
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#8
Scriptures please.
And [after] taking the cup and giving thanks he gave [it] to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Matthew 26:27-28

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new covenant, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first covenant, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a covenant [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the one being covenanted. For a covenant [is] confirmed upon death: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the one being covenanted lives. Whereupon neither the first [covenant] was dedicated without blood. Hebrews 9:15-18
 
Oct 21, 2015
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#9
In the same way he took the cup saying
This cup is the new covenant in my blood which is poured out for you

Luke22:20
 
Oct 21, 2015
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#10
I think some believe the new covenant began at saniai when Moses received the Ten Commandments.

And I'm not kidding!
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
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#11
Some may be missing the point. Very clearly the covenant is new in many ways when Jesus came, in fact it was new every time God made a covenant with man. Jesus of course is the newest and most fullest covenant of God with man. But then again He always was. First in shadow then in reality.

But you are missing the point. The new covenant quoted in Hebrews was given to Israel and applied when God brought them back from captivity. you have no choice but to acknowledge this or disagree with bible facts.

God promised this on their return from captivity that he would put his law on their hearts and minds and forgive their sins. He did this already. Now that Jesus has come it is new again in that no more sacrifices are needed etc.

But the crux of the covenant is this:

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This happened when God brought them back they suddenly knew God in a way that had not before. and God forgave their sins which put them in captivity in the first place.

This also happened when Jesus came, in fact this was even greater. But the reality of the covenant is based around knowing him and thus keeping His commandments in the heart which applied to Israel also as is clearly revealed in scripture.
 
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
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#12
The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile 1cor3:20
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#13
Some may be missing the point. Very clearly the covenant is new in many ways when Jesus came, in fact it was new every time God made a covenant with man. Jesus of course is the newest and most fullest covenant of God with man. But then again He always was. First in shadow then in reality.

But you are missing the point. The new covenant quoted in Hebrews was given to Israel and applied when God brought them back from captivity. you have no choice but to acknowledge this or disagree with bible facts.

God promised this on their return from captivity that he would put his law on their hearts and minds and forgive their sins. He did this already. Now that Jesus has come it is new again in that no more sacrifices are needed etc.

But the crux of the covenant is this:

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This happened when God brought them back they suddenly knew God in a way that had not before. and God forgave their sins which put them in captivity in the first place.

This also happened when Jesus came, in fact this was even greater. But the reality of the covenant is based around knowing him and thus keeping His commandments in the heart which applied to Israel also as is clearly revealed in scripture.

I think you are not only missing the biblical point, but also making one up.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#14
But you are missing the point. The new covenant quoted in Hebrews was given to Israel and applied when God brought them back from captivity. you have no choice but to acknowledge this or disagree with bible facts.
Actually there is another choice. We could choose to call you a liar.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
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#16
Actually there is another choice. We could choose to call you a liar.
actually that fits withing the disagree with the bible facts choice. Its written in black and white you can say what you want but its there. anyway I am not going to wast my energy with you on this. You can ignore the facts if you want that is fine. I have written what I have written and anyone who wants to go and study to see if these things are true will see.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#17
The new covenant came about after Christ's death and resurrection. His resurrection is what made eternal life available.

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1 Cor. 15:20-23