No Eternal Security = No Salvation?

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PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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? ? ? ?

Here is what I wrote about salvation:

Salvation is by the grace of God through faith in His Son Jesus Christ (believing in His death/blood and in His resurrection).

Salvation is not by believing in OSAS or by not believing in OSAS.

Are there people who claim Christianity and say they do not believe in OSAS who are going to hell? Of course
Are there people who claim Christianity and say they do believe in OSAS who are going to hell? Of course


But the reason they are going to hell is not because of belief in a doctrine but because of not believing in Jesus Christ.


Where is the strawman? (You really have me befuddled on this one, my dear friend!) ???

Chester, this is a bit of a deceptive post. You omitted the line that makes the post a strawman you tear down.

"That you don't know the answer to the question shows ignorance of what Scripture says about salvation:"

So after saying that, you proceed to build the strawman that somehow my faith is in the doctrine of OSAS rather than Jesus Christ.

Remember, in the OP, the question was mainly intended for those that believe in Eternal Security. OBVIOUSLY those that don't, already fully have their mind made up that they are saved. At least for the moment. Not that you or anybody else can'y chime in, but I wanted to know what eternal security people thought.

I also said at one time I thought you COULD lose Salvation, and now believe EVEN at that time I was saved. BECAUSE, looking back, Jesus NEVER left me!
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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This is a sincere question to mostly those who already believe they are eternally secure (OSAS), and cannot lose their Salvation because Jesus is the One who gave it to them and keeps it secure.

I know there are umpteen OSAS threads, and that can certainly and most likely will be discussed here as EVERY thread eventually boils down to that.

But what I'm asking is are those that don't believe in eternal security saved? I honestly don't know, but would like to hear your thoughts on this issue. At one time I thought you COULD lose your Salvation. I knew who Jesus is (God in the flesh) and what He has done (die to pay for our sin and resurrected to life after 3 days) but also thought that I could lose that Salvation for "willing sin" or disobedience in not totally following Him.

Others here believe they could lose their Salvation for additional reasons. So my question is does thinking you can lose your Salvation equate to NOT being saved?

May God Bless you all!
Good OP, and never saw it until today (as far as I recall anyhow).

It all comes down to the monergistic and synergistic understanding of salvation. The former teaches that it is God alone who saves, the latter teaches that it is a cooperative effort between man and God.

Monergism: Who saved me? God and he alone. Who keeps me saved? God and he alone.

Synergism: Who saved me? God with my cooperation. Who keeps me saved? God, with my cooperation.

One is a false gospel. However, I believe there are many who are converted but are just ignorant of the basics of soteriology, and really do not understand the Gospel very well or as they should.

A person(s) cannot understand the Gospel truly if said person(s) thinks they took part in their salvation.

For instance, there are many here who believe God chose them because they did some good deed, made a proper decision, had love for God while spiritually dead, sought God and found him while spiritually dead, among other unbiblical beliefs. Cornelius in Acts 10 is used as their proof, and they also deny being part of those mentioned in Romans 3:10ff.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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Ok, let me ask you this: When James and Peter tells us to, Resist the devil and he will flee from you (James 4:7, 8; 1 Peter 5:8, 9 NASB) or when Paul tells us, But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh (Galatians 5:16) or Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts (Romans 6:12)… they are telling us not to do anything?
None of those passages have a thing to do with staying saved.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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Almost everything he states is false....just like denying that God gives homosexuals over to reprobate minds.....and saying that being homosexual is not sinful.....I wish I could say what I really think without getting banned!!
DD teaches the above?
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian......sounds like one resisting grace to me ....just saying
Irresistible grace doctrine is about the elect not the non-elect. IOW it doesn't teach the non-elect cannot resist God's grace.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
3,726
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Chester, this is a bit of a deceptive post. You omitted the line that makes the post a strawman you tear down.

"That you don't know the answer to the question shows ignorance of what Scripture says about salvation:"

So after saying that, you proceed to build the strawman that somehow my faith is in the doctrine of OSAS rather than Jesus Christ.

Remember, in the OP, the question was mainly intended for those that believe in Eternal Security. OBVIOUSLY those that don't, already fully have their mind made up that they are saved. At least for the moment. Not that you or anybody else can'y chime in, but I wanted to know what eternal security people thought.

I also said at one time I thought you COULD lose Salvation, and now believe EVEN at that time I was saved. BECAUSE, looking back, Jesus NEVER left me!
Alright, I will bow out and leave you to continue your conversation with others. You obviously did not understand what I was saying, so we can just leave it go . . .
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Alright, I will bow out and leave you to continue your conversation with others. You obviously did not understand what I was saying, so we can just leave it go . . .
Ok. But please don't go away mad. I actually fall pretty much in line with your statement that there are some eternal security people unsaved and some non osas that are saved. I just think the non osas saved don't realize yet that they ARE eternally secure.
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
121
43
This is a sincere question to mostly those who already believe they are eternally secure (OSAS), and cannot lose their Salvation because Jesus is the One who gave it to them and keeps it secure.

I know there are umpteen OSAS threads, and that can certainly and most likely will be discussed here as EVERY thread eventually boils down to that.

But what I'm asking is are those that don't believe in eternal security saved? I honestly don't know, but would like to hear your thoughts on this issue. At one time I thought you COULD lose your Salvation. I knew who Jesus is (God in the flesh) and what He has done (die to pay for our sin and resurrected to life after 3 days) but also thought that I could lose that Salvation for "willing sin" or disobedience in not totally following Him.

Others here believe they could lose their Salvation for additional reasons. So my question is does thinking you can lose your Salvation equate to NOT being saved?

May God Bless you all!




As I stated in the most recent OSAS thread, I believe in a form of OSAS, but I also believe there are possible conditions to it.

1. Christ taught us the Lord's Prayer:
Within this prayer, He states if we do not forgive those who have sinned against us, the Father would not forgive us from our own sins.

Ironically, some OSAS'ers believe you can sin without seeking forgiveness and still be saved.
So that leads to this question: If one of those OSAS'ers who believe you can sin without seeking forgiveness...what if they refuse to forgive those who sinned against them? Christ is clear they won't be forgiven of their own sins. So, if the sin OSAS'ers are committing is not forgiving others, how can their salvation be guaranteed since Christ specifically states their sins WON'T BE FORGIVEN?


2. It seems illogical, but we do have FREE WILL. And within that FREE WILL, we could choose to walk away from God. And since the scriptures are clear that God does not interfere with our FREE WILL, I believe God would have to deny them for their choices to leave Him!!


3. And even though Christ's shed Blood covers ALL SIN (but blasphemy), most OSAS'ers refer back to the moment you were saved to claim ALL SINS including your FUTURE SINS are 100% covered guaranteed. This is hard to buy since I was saved at 10 years old. I am now on the verge of becoming 50, and I can promise you that the sins I committed at 10 were extremely minor compared to the sins I have committed since growing older. And at 10, I had no knowledge of the sins one could commit when older. Therefore, my conversion and forgiveness I believe was based upon the sins I knew of at 10 and confessed to. Not about sins I would commit 40 years later!!

To me, it only seems logical to have needed to seek forgiveness for the sins I committed later on in life, since at 10 I was unaware of them!!
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
363
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This is a sincere question to mostly those who already believe they are eternally secure (OSAS), and cannot lose their Salvation because Jesus is the One who gave it to them and keeps it secure.

I know there are umpteen OSAS threads, and that can certainly and most likely will be discussed here as EVERY thread eventually boils down to that.

But what I'm asking is are those that don't believe in eternal security saved? I honestly don't know, but would like to hear your thoughts on this issue. At one time I thought you COULD lose your Salvation. I knew who Jesus is (God in the flesh) and what He has done (die to pay for our sin and resurrected to life after 3 days) but also thought that I could lose that Salvation for "willing sin" or disobedience in not totally following Him.

Others here believe they could lose their Salvation for additional reasons. So my question is does thinking you can lose your Salvation equate to NOT being saved?

May God Bless you all!
"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling." Phippians 2:12
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
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43
Splagna said:
Ok, let me ask you this: When James and Peter tells us to, Resist the devil and he will flee from you (James 4:7, 8; 1 Peter 5:8, 9 NASB) or when Paul tells us, But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh (Galatians 5:16) or Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts (Romans 6:12)… they are telling us not to do anything?



dcontroversal
Do not confuse justification and positional sanctification with ongoing sanctification in our daily lives......any salvation you may possess is not based upon your performance, but rather on Christ and his work, power, promises and faith!

Interesting how you pick and choose scripture for your own purpose. Those scriptures Splagna provided are specific compared to the scriptures you have tossed around. Your scriptures can be interpreted several ways, but the scriptures Splagna provided are as clear as water!!
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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Exactly....CALLED CHASTISMENT for SONS and Daughters that walk contrary....NOT the loss of salvation! A son by birth will always be a son by birth...It is the spirit that is born from above by INCORRUPTABLE SEED and the GIFTS OF GOD ARE IRREVOCABLE!


You literally talk in circles!!

One would think after reading your posts that you have circular logic :(
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
121
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P...,

First allow me to point out that the OSAS concept never existed (from ongoing research to date)...prior to the 1960's. In such era we experienced a great social and moral upheaval resulting in a mirrored of new Bible interpretations...including ...OSAS. It is revealing that there is little to no recorded mention of the concept or...term ....prior..... in history.

No one can seem to answer and actually are reluctant to approach an answer. Why is that? My opinion ....it was a new way to approach the Bible and still experience living a life as one wishes while maintaining some semblance of being a christian.
.

AMEN!!

It all sounds like the foundation of the new SEEKER FRIENDLY CHURCHES!!

All a bunch of baloney!!
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
121
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Jude 1:

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.



I like how you skipped passed verse 21:

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

This states for us to actually do something!! Where is the GRACE in this verse? This is a COMMAND!!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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You literally talk in circles!!

One would think after reading your posts that you have circular logic :(
Not hardly pal.......and my quoted post is correct......maybe actually study the word and open your eyes to the truth.......here one ore time...read SLOOOOWWWWWW so you can grasp it.....


dcontroversal said:
Exactly....CALLED CHASTISMENT for SONS and Daughters that walk contrary....NOT the loss of salvation! A son by birth will always be a son by birth...It is the spirit that is born from above by INCORRUPTABLE SEED and the GIFTS OF GOD ARE IRREVOCABLE!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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Interesting how you pick and choose scripture for your own purpose. Those scriptures Splagna provided are specific compared to the scriptures you have tossed around. Your scriptures can be interpreted several ways, but the scriptures Splagna provided are as clear as water!!
Interesting how YOU fail to actually quote the verses I stated and then try to make me look bad by only posting one side of the reply....10 to 1 you are a Democrat........same kind of rigmarole they do.....
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
121
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Not hardly pal.......and my quoted post is correct......maybe actually study the word and open your eyes to the truth.......here one ore time...read SLOOOOWWWWWW so you can grasp it.....


dcontroversal said:
Exactly....CALLED CHASTISMENT for SONS and Daughters that walk contrary....NOT the loss of salvation! A son by birth will always be a son by birth...It is the spirit that is born from above by INCORRUPTABLE SEED and the GIFTS OF GOD ARE IRREVOCABLE!


Your titles you have attached to how someone thinks is not even biblical, it's a man made title and you use it like you have a clue. This OSAS is nothing but a SEEKER FRIENDLY church catch phrase. It's not even a biblical term itself. I amazed at your terminology that you attach to anything you disagree with that is not even found within the scriptures. You actually don't even have a clue since you use titles SOMEONE ELSE obviously made up for you :(
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
121
43
Interesting how YOU fail to actually quote the verses I stated and then try to make me look bad by only posting one side of the reply....10 to 1 you are a Democrat........same kind of rigmarole they do.....


I have questioned several of your posts concerning your opinion of the OSAS you believe is scriptural. I don't need to quote scripture since I have a posting history with you. And no one here can make you look like anything but yourself. I voted for Reagan, Bush 1, Dole (lost to Clinton), Bush 2, Romney and McCain (both lost to Obama), and Trump... hmmmmm, now which one of those candidates were Demoncrats oh genius one?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling." Phippians 2:12
Look at the verse.

Work out YOUR SALVATION.

Salvation is something they had. It is not something they were trying to earn or work for.

In the greek, the word work out was a mining term, It was used of moners who were mining for things that had great value, the gems and metals were already their, they were not working to make them, they were working to make them usefull.

Paul is telling us, Take our salvation, and work it out so it is not hidden inside, but actually made useful to the world..

Paul always feared he woudl not do enough to help people, or do something which would have caused him his testimony to be shattered to the point he was no longer trusted.

Thats exactly how is is telling us to be. To fear lest we burn out our light, because people are watching.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Interesting how you pick and choose scripture for your own purpose. Those scriptures Splagna provided are specific compared to the scriptures you have tossed around. Your scriptures can be interpreted several ways, but the scriptures Splagna provided are as clear as water!!
You mean like the 1 John scripture you keep saying can be interpreted different ways although John is quite specifit.

You not one to judge when you do that very thing my friend.