NO falling away…Just a free ride… with Jesus.

[Live4Him3]

Pre-trib rapture doctrine is not from God.

The resurrection and rapture happen at His coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15

The antichrist is also destroyed at His coming.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8

JPT

Exactly.

Furthermore, in II Thessalonians 2:8, the underlying Greek word which is translated as "brightness" is "epiphaneia", and the underlying Greek word which is translated as "coming" is "parousia", and they are both describing the same exact event which will transpire at the same exact moment in time.

With this reality before us, here are the other places in the New Testament where these two same underlying Greek words are used in relation to Jesus Christ, and, again, they are all describing the same exact event which will transpire at the same exact moment in time.

epiphaneia

"That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:" (I Tim. 6:14)

"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;" (II Tim. 4:1)

"Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing." (II Tim. 4:8)

"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;" (Titus 2:13)

parousia

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" (Matt. 24:3)

"For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matt. 24:27)

"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matt. 24:37)

"And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matt. 24:39)

"But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." (I Cor. 15:23)

"For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?" (I Thess. 2:19)

"To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints." (I Thess. 3:13)

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." (I Thess. 4:15)

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (I Thess. 5:23)

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him," (II Thess. 2:1)

"Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain." (James 5:7)

"Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." (James 5:8)

"And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." (II Peter 3:4)

"And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming." (I John 2:28)

Notice that it's always an "appearing", SINGULAR, and never "appearings", PLURAL, in that Jesus already appeared once, and he is only going to appear one more time at his second coming.

Similarly, notice that it's always a "coming", SINGULAR, and never "comings", PLURAL, in that Jesus already came once, and he is only going to come one more time at his second coming.

Hebrews chapter 9

[24] For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
[25] Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
[27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Again, Christ already appeared once, approximately 2000 years ago, to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself (vs. 26), and unto them that look for him shall he appear THE SECOND TIME without sin unto salvation (vs. 28), and NOT "the second and third times".

Who has ears to hear, let them hear.

 

[DavidTree]

I'm saying that ALL OF VERSE 1 relates to "our Rapture" (and its timing--its location will be "IN THE AIR"--and is known here as "OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" [it involves ONLY US, and NO ONE ELSE!]).


Verse 2's "false claim" (that the false claimants were purporting) has/had NOTHING TO DO with the Subject of [v.1's] "our Rapture" (PAUL is BRINGING *that* Subject TO BEAR on the problem of the "false claim [in v.2]" he's cautioning them NOT to fall for or believe and be troubled / disturbed by).




IOW, v.1 (its TWO CLAUSES) is not what I'm speaking about when referring to "the SEQUENCE" ("order") I've been pointing out.



The "SEQUENCE [/order]" I am pointing out that Paul is repeating 3x in this text is NOT between the two clauses IN VERSE 1 (to be clear)...

... but between Verse 1's Subject (our Rapture IN THE AIR noun-event, PAUL is bringing to the fore) and Verse 2's Subject (the EARTHLY-located time-period known as "the day of the Lord" [which includes JUDGMENTs unfolding upon the earth OVER SOME TIME, leading UP TO Christ's RETURN to the earth at Rev19])--IOW, how these two items "fit" in relation to each other SEQUENCE-wise / time-wise / order-wise (NOT how Clause A of verse 1 fits in relation sequence-wise / order-wise to Clause B of verse 1. NO! NOT what I am saying.)



Make sense? = )

Nope

The Scripture, when believed on exactly as "it is written" makes complete sense.

The Second Coming of Christ is the Day of the LORD.
1 Thess 1:10 "and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath."

A.) Jesus is Coming
B.) the Resurrection/Deliverance
C.) the Wrath of the Lamb

This is the Irrefutable Order by the LORD that cannot be changed or altered.
To change or alter this Order is 'Serpent Garden Speak' - from now on this will be abbreviated as 'SGS'.

2 Thess ch2 gives us more detail to the Events that will PRECEDE His Second Coming.

This OT confirmed detail was given by the Holy Spirit because 'Serpent Garden Speak'(SGS) was, once again, adding to God's words what HE did not say.
The Serpent Rumor(SGS) was that the Christ's Second Coming had come and now the Saints were 'Left Behind' to suffer the coming wrath of God.
Therefore there will be no gathering of the Saints and no wrath poured out by the LORD until the "falling away and man of sin is revealed"

Pre-trib rapture = SGS = exposed as heresy in 2 Timothy ch2 and Matthew 25:1-13 and 1 Cor ch15 and 1 John ch2- ch3

But avoid irreverent, empty chatter, which will only lead to more ungodliness, and the talk of such men will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have deviated from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already occurred, and they undermine the faith of some.
Nevertheless, God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord must turn away from iniquity.”

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The Serpent Rumor(SGS) was that the Christ's Second Coming had come and now the Saints were 'Left Behind' to suffer the coming wrath of God.

If you are referring to the "false claim" in verse 2 that Paul is cautioning about, the text does not inform us that the false claimants were saying "that Christ's Second Coming had come"... Rather, the text informs us that the content of the false claim was (instead), "that the day of the Lord is present / is already here [perfect indicative]"...

And one of the reasons why that would be something PERFECTLY REASONABLE for them to be [wrongly] persuaded was TRUE (not to mention, be so "troubling" and disturbing to them) is because of their PRESENT and ONGOING *very NEGATIVE* experiences they were already enduring ("persecutions and tribulations ye endure" Paul just said, in 1:4).




In addition to this, it is a mistake to think that His "WRATH" only takes place on the "singular 24-hr day [kind of 'day']" of His "RETURN" to the earth... or even a few or several "days" in duration.
It begins when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13, Rev5:6, [plus parallel language btwn Lam2:3-4 [also 2Th1:7-8 "INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON"] & 2Th2:7b-8a) BY His opening the FIRST SEAL (aka the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3 / Matt24:4/Mk13:5]" that will KICK OFF the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period [Rv1:1/4:1/1:19c] which we commonly call the Tribulation Period--See also parallels in language where Hab1:6,12 says God uses the Chaldeans / Babylonians "TO EXECTUTE JUDGMENT"--See also the "WRATH" words in Ezek38:18-19 [parallel the SECOND SEAL *WARS*--and how Ezek39:7 parallels the wording as to what Joseph did in Gen45:1 in the SECOND YEAR of his "seven year famine"]).



The "7 Vials" are said OF THEM, "for IN THEM the wrath of God is COMPLETED [G5055]" (NOT "is INITIATED *AND* COMPLETED". NO!--same as the way this word [G5055] "completed" is used also in Rev10:7 & 11:7, "G5055" with its meaning being, "to perform the last act which completes a process"... Neither of those verses [as well as Rev15:1] refer to both the "INITIATION *AND* COMPLETION" of what is being referenced in those verses); And the "7 Vials" are completed PRIOR TO His "RETURN" to the earth (at Rev19).







Here's another post [cpl of posts together] I'd made, on that ^ [somewhat-related] subject, some time back (see what you can do to talk me out of it ):

Post #212 (& #213 follow-up) - https://christianchat.com/threads/the-key-to-the-pre-trib-rapture.198174/post-4523145

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

uses the Chaldeans / Babylonians "TO EXECTUTE JUDGMENT"

EDIT to CORRECT TYPO (timed out too soon!): "EXECUTE"

LOL

 

[DavidTree]

If you are referring to the "false claim" in verse 2 that Paul is cautioning about, the text does not inform us that the false claimants were saying "that Christ's Second Coming had come"... Rather, the text informs us that the content of the false claim was (instead), "that the day of the Lord is present / is already here [perfect indicative]"...

And one of the reasons why that would be something PERFECTLY REASONABLE for them to be [wrongly] persuaded was TRUE (not to mention, be so "troubling" and disturbing to them) is because of their PRESENT and ONGOING *very NEGATIVE* experiences they were already enduring ("persecutions and tribulations ye endure" Paul just said, in 1:4).




In addition to this, it is a mistake to think that His "WRATH" only takes place on the "singular 24-hr day [kind of 'day']" of His "RETURN" to the earth... or even a few or several "days" in duration.
It begins when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13, Rev5:6, [plus parallel language btwn Lam2:3-4 [also 2Th1:7-8 "INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON"] & 2Th2:7b-8a) BY His opening the FIRST SEAL (aka the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3 / Matt24:4/Mk13:5]" that will KICK OFF the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period [Rv1:1/4:1/1:19c] which we commonly call the Tribulation Period--See also parallels in language where Hab1:6,12 says God uses the Chaldeans / Babylonians "TO EXECTUTE JUDGMENT"--See also the "WRATH" words in Ezek38:18-19 [parallel the SECOND SEAL *WARS*--and how Ezek39:7 parallels the wording as to what Joseph did in Gen45:1 in the SECOND YEAR of his "seven year famine"]).



The "7 Vials" are said OF THEM, "for IN THEM the wrath of God is COMPLETED [G5055]" (NOT "is INITIATED *AND* COMPLETED". NO!--same as the way this word [G5055] "completed" is used also in Rev10:7 & 11:7, "G5055" with its meaning being, "to perform the last act which completes a process"... Neither of those verses [as well as Rev15:1] refer to both the "INITIATION *AND* COMPLETION" of what is being referenced in those verses); And the "7 Vials" are completed PRIOR TO His "RETURN" to the earth (at Rev19).







Here's another post [cpl of posts together] I'd made, on that ^ [somewhat-related] subject, some time back (see what you can do to talk me out of it ):

Post #212 (& #213 follow-up) - https://christianchat.com/threads/the-key-to-the-pre-trib-rapture.198174/post-4523145

Buy a new Bible for your self because the one you reading from must be missing verses.

Like this one: "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers,
not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come."

A.) do not believe false reports = pre-trib rapture teaching, preaching and prophesying
B.) they never came from us the 12 Apostles who know the TRUTH about the LORD'S Coming
C.) His Coming/Day of the Lord has not come and cannot come until
D.) falling away/rebellion and the man of sin is revealed
E.) at the LORD'S Second Coming we are gathered
F.) man of sin is destroyed by the LORD'S Brightness/Glory


INDEED, the Apostle Paul caught wind of the Serpent whispering lies and therefore the HOLY SPIRIT instructed him to alert teh Body of Christ and make CORRECTION of those lies.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Buy a new Bible for your self because the one you reading from must be missing verses.

Like this one: "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers,
not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come."
A.) do not believe false reports = pre-trib rapture teaching, preaching and prophesying

Verse 2's "false alleging" has ZERO TO DO with "rapture [IN THE AIR]" (the "false claimants" were NOT speaking of this, per v.2's TEXT).

The false claim's content that Paul is specifically pointing out in verse 2 (the TEXT ITSELF tells us) is: "[alleging] that THE DAY OF THE LORD is present / is already here"... which is an EARTHLY-located TIME-PERIOD consisting also of JUDGMENTs unfolding upon the earth OVER SOME TIME.


We know this for several reasons:

1) Paul, in 1Th5:1-3 says that (as they "know perfectly") "the day of the Lord" ARRIVES "EXACTLY AS [hosper]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"... you know, the ones Jesus spoke of in His Olivet Discourse as occurring PRIOR TO and LEADING UP TO His Second Coming to the earth (which is at Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:[9],12-13 / Rev19)... AND ALSO as occurring PRIOR TO and LEADING UP TO the "AOD [/MID-POINT]" point in time (Matt24:14 / Dan12:11), when the 3.5-yr "GREAT tribulation" will yet be remaining to unfold upon the earth (which is the FURTHER "birth pangS"... not merely "the BEGINNING of birth pangS" which PRECEDES those further ones);


2) "the BEGINNING of birth pangS" are EQUIVALENT the "SEALS" of Rev6 which are at the START of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period (Rev1:1 / 4:1 / 1:19c)... they do not BEGIN at or toward the END of those 7 years [/commonly called the Tribulation Period], at or near His Second Coming Rev19;
The INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3]" i.e. the FIRST SEAL... is the "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / parousia" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME" (which is NOT at the "who EXALTETH... SITTETH" 2Th2:4 point in time [i.e. MID-trib (i.e. Trumpet #5), at the commencing of the 3.5-yr "GREAT tribulation" beginning the SECOND HALF]...
...and is certainly NOT at the "whom the Lord shall CONSUME and DESTROY with the MANIFESTATION of His presence / parousia" v.8b... IOW, the man of sin is not "CONSUMED / DESTROYED" the moment he is "REVEALED," NOR does he do the "EXALTETH [himself]... and SITTETH" v.4 thing the moment he is "REVEALED". NO! (study the actual CHRONOLOGY of these--Paul is covering ALL SEVEN YEARS in 2Th2... not merely the 3.5-yr SECOND HALF);


3) when the "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / parousia" (2Th2:9a) of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME" is present, SO ALSO will therefore be "the DAY OF THE LORD" present (to unfold upon the earth over the course of those 7 years, WHERE IT IS SLATED TO unfold... with JUDGMENTs unfolding upon the earth, throughout that aspect of it... ; Which "DOTL" goes ON to ALSO INCLUDE Christ's Second Coming to the earth [Rev19], AS WELL AS going on to include the entire promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age); the phrase "the day of the Lord" is EVER "EARTHLY-located," and NOWHERE ELSE! ("rapture [IN THE AIR]" is not a component of "THE DAY OF THE LORD" earthly TIME-PERIOD--the thing that the false claim is alleging "is present / is already here" and is unfolding upon the earth [which is NOT TRUE... until...])


4) Everywhere in Scripture when the phrases "the day of the Lord" and "IN THAT DAY" are used in close proximity [i.e. same CONTEXT], they always refer to THE SAME TIME-PERIOD... and such is also the case here in Paul's TWO CHPTS (chpt 1 ["IN THAT DAY"] & chpt 2 ["the day of the Lord"--the Subject of the FALSE CLAIM, per v.2]); THUS PROVING that this ["the DOTL"] is a TIME-PERIOD which will unfold and PRECEDE [LEADING UP TO] His Second Coming to the earth (meaning, its ARRIVAL point does... well-PRIOR TO His Second Coming to the earth; Again, in these two chpts, Paul is CONTRASTING the two OPPOSITE "beliefs" people WILL BE coming to IN / DURING / WITHIN the Tribulation Period [that is, FOLLOWING "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"]... 2Th2:10-12 being ONE of those TWO "beliefs" [the WRONG / FALSE one], whereas some will come to belief in Christ IN / DURING / WITHIN that same time-period ["in all those having believed, BECAUSE 'the-testimony-of-us-to-you' was believed IN THAT DAY" [not speaking of the Thessalonians' own "belief," but those IN / WITHIN the future Trib yrs [FOLLOWING "our Rapture"] / aka "IN THAT DAY" Paul is referring to here, not in THIS one]);


5) "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" [what surrounds this event] takes place in the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE from that of the Matthew 13 "WHEAT"-and-"TARES" harvest (when it is told to the angels / reapers "at the end [singular] of the age [singular]," "collect ye FIRST the TARES")





Sorry Charlie ... your comments (even just the first point) have/has been completely unpersuasive.

I remain unconvinced of your viewpoint (for the above-mentioned reasons, and so many more!)






____________

I suggest doing a very thorough study of just what all "the day of the Lord" entails, and why the "false claim" speaks only TO THAT (and NOT to "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" event, whatsoever! That's PAUL's Subject, not the "false claimants'" Subject!)

PAUL is the one BRINGING THAT SUBJECT [of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"] to BEAR on the issue of the "false claim," in order to equip the Thessalonians [and us--who are ALSO members of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" to/of whom "Rapture" SOLELY pertains--NOT pertaining to all other saints of all OTHER time-periods--not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints] with the TRUTH OF THE MATTER:
[v.3] the day of the Lord [earthly-located time-period involving JUDGMENTS (from v.2's "false claim")] will NOT be present, if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST* [THE one Paul just spoke of! Definite article in Greek POINTS BACK] AND [distinctly and subsequently] the man of sin BE REVEALED..." He is REVEALED at the START of the DOTL time-period, at its ARRIVAL point in time, aka SEAL #1, the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3 (Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - A CERTAIN ONE" ['a certain one' BRINGING DECEPTION])]... not something well-into those yrs nor taking place toward their END (at Christ's "RETURN" to the earth, Rev19)! NO!

 

[justpassinthrough]

Exactly.

Furthermore, in II Thessalonians 2:8, the underlying Greek word which is translated as "brightness" is "epiphaneia", and the underlying Greek word which is translated as "coming" is "parousia", and they are both describing the same exact event which will transpire at the same exact moment in time.

With this reality before us, here are the other places in the New Testament where these two same underlying Greek words are used in relation to Jesus Christ, and, again, they are all describing the same exact event which will transpire at the same exact moment in time.

epiphaneia

"That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:" (I Tim. 6:14)

"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;" (II Tim. 4:1)

"Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing." (II Tim. 4:8)

"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;" (Titus 2:13)

parousia

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" (Matt. 24:3)

"For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matt. 24:27)

"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matt. 24:37)

"And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matt. 24:39)

"But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." (I Cor. 15:23)

"For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?" (I Thess. 2:19)

"To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints." (I Thess. 3:13)

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." (I Thess. 4:15)

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (I Thess. 5:23)

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him," (II Thess. 2:1)

"Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain." (James 5:7)

"Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." (James 5:8)

"And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." (II Peter 3:4)

"And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming." (I John 2:28)

Notice that it's always an "appearing", SINGULAR, and never "appearings", PLURAL, in that Jesus already appeared once, and he is only going to appear one more time at his second coming.

Similarly, notice that it's always a "coming", SINGULAR, and never "comings", PLURAL, in that Jesus already came once, and he is only going to come one more time at his second coming.

Hebrews chapter 9

[24] For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
[25] Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
[27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Again, Christ already appeared once, approximately 2000 years ago, to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself (vs. 26), and unto them that look for him shall he appear THE SECOND TIME without sin unto salvation (vs. 28), and NOT "the second and third times".

Who has ears to hear, let them hear.

Amen! Good word.






JPT

 

[DavidTree]

Verse 2's "false alleging" has ZERO TO DO with "rapture [IN THE AIR]" (the "false claimants" were NOT speaking of this, per v.2's TEXT).

The false claim's content that Paul is specifically pointing out in verse 2 (the TEXT ITSELF tells us) is: "[alleging] that THE DAY OF THE LORD is present / is already here"... which is an EARTHLY-located TIME-PERIOD consisting also of JUDGMENTs unfolding upon the earth OVER SOME TIME.


We know this for several reasons:

1) Paul, in 1Th5:1-3 says that (as they "know perfectly") "the day of the Lord" ARRIVES "EXACTLY AS [hosper]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"... you know, the ones Jesus spoke of in His Olivet Discourse as occurring PRIOR TO and LEADING UP TO His Second Coming to the earth (which is at Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:[9],12-13 / Rev19)... AND ALSO as occurring PRIOR TO and LEADING UP TO the "AOD [/MID-POINT]" point in time (Matt24:14 / Dan12:11), when the 3.5-yr "GREAT tribulation" will yet be remaining to unfold upon the earth (which is the FURTHER "birth pangS"... not merely "the BEGINNING of birth pangS" which PRECEDES those further ones);


2) "the BEGINNING of birth pangS" are EQUIVALENT the "SEALS" of Rev6 which are at the START of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period (Rev1:1 / 4:1 / 1:19c)... they do not BEGIN at or toward the END of those 7 years [/commonly called the Tribulation Period], at or near His Second Coming Rev19;
The INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3]" i.e. the FIRST SEAL... is the "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / parousia" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME" (which is NOT at the "who EXALTETH... SITTETH" 2Th2:4 point in time [i.e. MID-trib (i.e. Trumpet #5), at the commencing of the 3.5-yr "GREAT tribulation" beginning the SECOND HALF]...
...and is certainly NOT at the "whom the Lord shall CONSUME and DESTROY with the MANIFESTATION of His presence / parousia" v.8b... IOW, the man of sin is not "CONSUMED / DESTROYED" the moment he is "REVEALED," NOR does he do the "EXALTETH [himself]... and SITTETH" v.4 thing the moment he is "REVEALED". NO! (study the actual CHRONOLOGY of these--Paul is covering ALL SEVEN YEARS in 2Th2... not merely the 3.5-yr SECOND HALF);


3) when the "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / parousia" (2Th2:9a) of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME" is present, SO ALSO will therefore be "the DAY OF THE LORD" present (to unfold upon the earth over the course of those 7 years, WHERE IT IS SLATED TO unfold... with JUDGMENTs unfolding upon the earth, throughout that aspect of it... ; Which "DOTL" goes ON to ALSO INCLUDE Christ's Second Coming to the earth [Rev19], AS WELL AS going on to include the entire promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age); the phrase "the day of the Lord" is EVER "EARTHLY-located," and NOWHERE ELSE! ("rapture [IN THE AIR]" is not a component of "THE DAY OF THE LORD" earthly TIME-PERIOD--the thing that the false claim is alleging "is present / is already here" and is unfolding upon the earth [which is NOT TRUE... until...])


4) Everywhere in Scripture when the phrases "the day of the Lord" and "IN THAT DAY" are used in close proximity [i.e. same CONTEXT], they always refer to THE SAME TIME-PERIOD... and such is also the case here in Paul's TWO CHPTS (chpt 1 ["IN THAT DAY"] & chpt 2 ["the day of the Lord"--the Subject of the FALSE CLAIM, per v.2]); THUS PROVING that this ["the DOTL"] is a TIME-PERIOD which will unfold and PRECEDE [LEADING UP TO] His Second Coming to the earth (meaning, its ARRIVAL point does... well-PRIOR TO His Second Coming to the earth; Again, in these two chpts, Paul is CONTRASTING the two OPPOSITE "beliefs" people WILL BE coming to IN / DURING / WITHIN the Tribulation Period [that is, FOLLOWING "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"]... 2Th2:10-12 being ONE of those TWO "beliefs" [the WRONG / FALSE one], whereas some will come to belief in Christ IN / DURING / WITHIN that same time-period ["in all those having believed, BECAUSE 'the-testimony-of-us-to-you' was believed IN THAT DAY" [not speaking of the Thessalonians' own "belief," but those IN / WITHIN the future Trib yrs [FOLLOWING "our Rapture"] / aka "IN THAT DAY" Paul is referring to here, not in THIS one]);


5) "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" [what surrounds this event] takes place in the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE from that of the Matthew 13 "WHEAT"-and-"TARES" harvest (when it is told to the angels / reapers "at the end [singular] of the age [singular]," "collect ye FIRST the TARES")





Sorry Charlie ... your comments (even just the first point) have/has been completely unpersuasive.

I remain unconvinced of your viewpoint (for the above-mentioned reasons, and so many more!)






____________

I suggest doing a very thorough study of just what all "the day of the Lord" entails, and why the "false claim" speaks only TO THAT (and NOT to "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" event, whatsoever! That's PAUL's Subject, not the "false claimants'" Subject!)

PAUL is the one BRINGING THAT SUBJECT [of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"] to BEAR on the issue of the "false claim," in order to equip the Thessalonians [and us--who are ALSO members of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" to/of whom "Rapture" SOLELY pertains--NOT pertaining to all other saints of all OTHER time-periods--not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints] with the TRUTH OF THE MATTER:
[v.3] the day of the Lord [earthly-located time-period involving JUDGMENTS (from v.2's "false claim")] will NOT be present, if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST* [THE one Paul just spoke of! Definite article in Greek POINTS BACK] AND [distinctly and subsequently] the man of sin BE REVEALED..." He is REVEALED at the START of the DOTL time-period, at its ARRIVAL point in time, aka SEAL #1, the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3 (Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - A CERTAIN ONE" ['a certain one' BRINGING DECEPTION])]... not something well-into those yrs nor taking place toward their END (at Christ's "RETURN" to the earth, Rev19)! NO!

Your response here to my Post #62 is called 'Denial by Diversion'. Abbreviated as DbD

There is not one mention by the Holy Spirit in 1 & 2 Thessalonians to a 7 year or 3.5 year period prior to the HIS Second Coming.

Go back to 1 & 2 Thess and align your thoughts/thinking process to be conformed to His Word and set free from error.

Now, since you are convinced that your error is truth, here is your challenge:

Provide from Scripture where our LORD or the Apostles spoke of Saints being "left behind" AND then a Third Coming of Christ to Resurrect the Dead in Him AFTER the supposed 'pre-trib' rapture.

Summary - Prove om Scripture alone the following:
A.) Christ descends for a select group of Saints to 'pre-trib rapture' them prior to the revealing of the man of sin
B.) Christ and this select group of Saints hang out in Heaven for 7 Years or 3.5 Years
C.) Christ descends a THIRD time for the 'left behind Saints'
D.) the exact Scripture verses in the Gospels and/or Apostle's Letters that clearly portrays and warns of being "left behind" but rescued by the LORD AFTER His Second Coming

All of A,B,C,D must be clearly presented for evidence/witness to be substantiated as Truth.
Failure to do so from Scripture alone is unworthy to stand in His Presence for Praise, Honor and Glory.

PEACE and Blessing in your, and everyone's, endeavor to find and love the Truth.

IF, anyone succeeds on this Quest for 'pre-trib' rapture validation, a Donation of $1,000 will be made by myself to Voice of the Martyrs Ministry for the Persecuted in Christ.

IF, you cannot fulfill the requirements of A,B,C,D you, and everyone who preaches/teaches/prophesies 'pre-trib rapture is indebted to donate a minimum of $100 to Voice of the Martyrs Ministry.

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Timothy 2:15

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ @DavidTree , I just got done explaining that very thing in detail [relating to your request ^ ]...

The problem arises when, in your mind (per your posts / explanations), you are not recognizing the biblical definition of the phrase "the day of the Lord [v.2]," and are changing it to mean [and to instead say in verse 2] "the Second Coming of the Lord" [as in, Rev19].

The DOTL INCLUDES this, YES, but that is not its ARRIVAL point in time, when it will BEGIN to play out and exist upon the earth.

Scripture itself informs us that the DOTL will ARRIVE (to unfold upon the earth) PRIOR TO His Second Coming to the earth, and is the immediately preceding "LEAD-UP" TO it, starting with the INITIAL "birth PANG" Jesus spoke of, EQUIVALENT to SEAL #1 (the time-period commonly called the Tribulation Period [aka the "IN THE NIGHT" aspect OF the ENTIRE VERY LONG earthly time-period known as "the DOTL"]... with its "SEALS, TRUMPETS, VIALS" and its "man of sin" doing ALL he is slated to DO during those 7 years--yes, Paul is covering ALL SEVEN YEARS in his 2Th2 chpt [and chpt 1 also], JUST AS DO ALL of the other [related] passages speaking to this very same Subject: Matthew 24:4-chpt25-end, Rev4-19 [including Seal #1 thru Vial #7], Dan11:36-chpt12-end, Dan9:27a-b-c, etc etc...
All one has to do is connect those various "connecting points" to see [in each case] its "BEGINNING," its "MIDDLE" and its "END" of those years (of THAT aspect OF the very long time-period called "the DOTL").









Once you put back into v.2 the CORRECT phrase found there (and define it BIBLICALLY instead of how you are mis-defining it, which many people do), you will begin to see the point that Paul is actually conveying in this text / passage, as opposed to what it is you are suggesting this text / passage tells us he is conveying. = )









____________

[note for those wanting to read further: NOWHERE in Jesus' Olivet Discourse is Jesus covering the Subject of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]," but rather is covering the Subject of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH (and what immediately precedes this / leads UP TO THAT... being the future, specific, LIMITED time-period we call the Trib [other than about 12 verses in Lk21:12-24a,b about the events of 70ad]);
Recall, Jesus was answering their Q of Him in verse 3 that was BASED ON what He had ALREADY SPOKEN to them about in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50, which has to do with entrance into the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (aka "the age [singular] to come" which He had mentioned JUST BEFORE chpt 13, in 12:32)
--Their Q was BASED ON what He had ALREADY SPOKEN to them about in Matt13... and THAT passage had NOTHING TO DO with the idea of "RAPTURE [IN THE AIR]" (which is disclosed and explained ELSEWHERE in Scripture--Jesus was NOT speaking to that Subject in either Matt13 OR Matt24-25 [His response to their Q in v.3]...
--Again, for one small example of "comparing Scripture with Scripture," see Matt24:42-51 and ITS PARALLEL in Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44,45-48 where v.36 says, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"...[i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom!! Not "TO BE WED" at that point!! The "BLESSED" ones of these passages are NOT whom He is "MARRYING" (tho they indeed are "saints" [still-living ones--who will ENTER the EARTHLY MK age--in their mortal bodies capable of reproducing / bearing children)]...THEN the meal [G347, v.37; same word as in Matt8:11 and its parallel, speaking of the EARTHLY MK age]--NO ONE is LIFTING OFF THE EARTH in these passages, because they are about His "RETURN" to the EARTH--Rev19... That only happens ONCE!! [no "MARRIAGE" occurs then... It will have ALREADY taken place! These are NOT whom He is coming / returning at that point to "MARRY"--"when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347]... those "BLESSED" [saints] will ENTER the EARTHLY MK age, never having lifted off of the earth!)]

 

[DavidTree]

^ @DavidTree , I just got done explaining that very thing in detail [relating to your request ^ ]...

The problem arises when, in your mind (per your posts / explanations), you are not recognizing the biblical definition of the phrase "the day of the Lord [v.2]," and are changing it to mean [and to instead say in verse 2] "the Second Coming of the Lord" [as in, Rev19].

The DOTL INCLUDES this, YES, but that is not its ARRIVAL point in time, when it will BEGIN to play out and exist upon the earth.

Scripture itself informs us that the DOTL will ARRIVE (to unfold upon the earth) PRIOR TO His Second Coming to the earth, and is the immediately preceding "LEAD-UP" TO it, starting with the INITIAL "birth PANG" Jesus spoke of, EQUIVALENT to SEAL #1 (the time-period commonly called the Tribulation Period [aka the "IN THE NIGHT" aspect OF the ENTIRE VERY LONG earthly time-period known as "the DOTL"]... with its "SEALS, TRUMPETS, VIALS" and its "man of sin" doing ALL he is slated to DO during those 7 years--yes, Paul is covering ALL SEVEN YEARS in his 2Th2 chpt [and chpt 1 also], JUST AS DO ALL of the other [related] passages speaking to this very same Subject: Matthew 24:4-chpt25-end, Rev4-19 [including Seal #1 thru Vial #7], Dan11:36-chpt12-end, Dan9:27a-b-c, etc etc...
All one has to do is connect those various "connecting points" to see [in each case] its "BEGINNING," its "MIDDLE" and its "END" of those years (of THAT aspect OF the very long time-period called "the DOTL").









Once you put back into v.2 the CORRECT phrase found there (and define it BIBLICALLY instead of how you are mis-defining it, which many people do), you will begin to see the point that Paul is actually conveying in this text / passage, as opposed to what it is you are suggesting this text / passage tells us he is conveying. = )









____________

[note for those wanting to read further: NOWHERE in Jesus' Olivet Discourse is Jesus covering the Subject of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]," but rather is covering the Subject of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH (and what immediately precedes this / leads UP TO THAT... being the future, specific, LIMITED time-period we call the Trib [other than about 12 verses in Lk21:12-24a,b about the events of 70ad]);
Recall, Jesus was answering their Q of Him in verse 3 that was BASED ON what He had ALREADY SPOKEN to them about in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50, which has to do with entrance into the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (aka "the age [singular] to come" which He had mentioned JUST BEFORE chpt 13, in 12:32)
--Their Q was BASED ON what He had ALREADY SPOKEN to them about in Matt13... and THAT passage had NOTHING TO DO with the idea of "RAPTURE [IN THE AIR]" (which is disclosed and explained ELSEWHERE in Scripture--Jesus was NOT speaking to that Subject in either Matt13 OR Matt24-25 [His response to their Q in v.3]...
--Again, for one small example of "comparing Scripture with Scripture," see Matt24:42-51 and ITS PARALLEL in Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44,45-48 where v.36 says, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"...[i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom!! Not "TO BE WED" at that point!! The "BLESSED" ones of these passages are NOT whom He is "MARRYING" (tho they indeed are "saints" [still-living ones--who will ENTER the EARTHLY MK age--in their mortal bodies capable of reproducing / bearing children)]...THEN the meal [G347, v.37; same word as in Matt8:11 and its parallel, speaking of the EARTHLY MK age]--NO ONE is LIFTING OFF THE EARTH in these passages, because they are about His "RETURN" to the EARTH--Rev19... That only happens ONCE!! [no "MARRIAGE" occurs then... It will have ALREADY taken place! These are NOT whom He is coming / returning at that point to "MARRY"--"when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347]... those "BLESSED" [saints] will ENTER the EARTHLY MK age, never having lifted off of the earth!)]

Challenge Continued from Post #68

E.) Provide clear Scripture Comparison = Side by Side = that proves a clear observable line of demarcation separating the Second Coming as being clearly a separate event from a supposed THIRD event (Day of the Lord).

This must be clear from scripture passage denoting the SC from DoL as TWO Distinct and Separate TIME Delays.

1 & 2 Thessalonians make it CLEAR that the Second Coming and the Day of the Lord are the SAME DAY.

Challenge to ALL 'Bible Scholars' = Refute the clear teaching from 1 & 2 Thessolonians that the Second Coming is synonymous with the Day of the Lord = from Scripture which clearly states your position.

IF, anyone succeeds on this Quest for 'pre-trib' rapture validation, a Donation of $1,000 will be made by myself to Voice of the Martyrs Ministry for the Persecuted in Christ.

IF, you cannot fulfill the requirements of A,B,C,D,E you, and everyone who preaches/teaches/prophesies 'pre-trib rapture is indebted to donate a minimum of $100 to Voice of the Martyrs Ministry.

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Timothy 2:15

Responses MUST address each emphasis separately = A,B,C,D,E
AND
Show that your response to each (A,B,C,D,E from Post #68 and Post#70) are not in conflict and fully AGREE with Testimony from the LORD and the Apostles.

 

[DavidTree]

Challenge Continued from Post #68

E.) Provide clear Scripture Comparison = Side by Side = that proves a clear observable line of demarcation separating the Second Coming as being clearly a separate event from a supposed THIRD event (Day of the Lord).

This must be clear from scripture passage denoting the SC from DoL as TWO Distinct and Separate TIME Delays.

1 & 2 Thessalonians make it CLEAR that the Second Coming and the Day of the Lord are the SAME DAY.

Challenge to ALL 'Bible Scholars' = Refute the clear teaching from 1 & 2 Thessolonians that the Second Coming is synonymous with the Day of the Lord = from Scripture which clearly states your position.

IF, anyone succeeds on this Quest for 'pre-trib' rapture validation, a Donation of $1,000 will be made by myself to Voice of the Martyrs Ministry for the Persecuted in Christ.

IF, you cannot fulfill the requirements of A,B,C,D,E you, and everyone who preaches/teaches/prophesies 'pre-trib rapture is indebted to donate a minimum of $100 to Voice of the Martyrs Ministry.

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Timothy 2:15

Responses MUST address each emphasis separately = A,B,C,D,E
AND
Show that your response to each (A,B,C,D,E from Post #68 and Post#70) are not in conflict and fully AGREE with Testimony from the LORD and the Apostles.

Correction/Adjustment to Post #70

Should Read as follows =
"This must be clear from scripture passage denoting the SC from DoL as TWO Distinct and Separate Comings/Descending from Heaven to earth/clouds from each other with a TIME Period between 3.5 to 7 Years.

 

[DavidTree]

you right it is apostasy, and the op proves to be part of the deception of these times by making this unbiblical ridicilous thread.

the apostasy is also predicted elsewhere:

1 timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

guess what greek word it is? aphistémi the same 'departure' word this guy tried to pull a fast one on.

this argument is so terrible it boggles the mind how anyone still uses it. 1 timothy 4:1 predicts the same thing anyway so......... non-starter of an argument.

even if it was correct it makes no sense. "dont worry guys, the coming of the Lord (the real coming) wont happen until the coming of the Lord happens (the 1 thes 4:15-16 which we lie is a separate coming than the second coming with no biblical basis whatsoever).

it would make the apostles some of the worst communicators of all time to not be able to tell any church ever of two separate comings. terrible failure.

or maybe this pre-trib garbage is just that....... garbage invented by men to weasel their way out of the rough times ahead. also add in a little bit of zionism to make it work and you got it. the McChristianity

The Apostacy/Falling Away/Departure spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is confirmed by these Witnesses:
A.) by the Lord in Matthew ch24
B.) by the Holy Spirit in 1 Timothy 4:1
C.) by the Apostle John in 1 John 2:15-19
D.) by Jude in Jude 1:1-5

 

[DavidTree]

I continually hear of the falling away of believers before Christ’s return….Hopefully this will clarify that misconception….It is not a falling away …but a departure……We be gone, baby.

A look at the word hē apostasia …translated in verse 2:3 as a falling away which has been wrongly understood as a falling away of the faithful…(turning unfaithful) believers….but that is not how this reads..

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a “falling away” and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



First understand that…. The English version prior to King James version.. translated apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as departing. The King James or authorized version was the first to translate apostasia as falling away.

Jerome's Latin translation of the vulgate around 400 AD, translate the Greek apostasia as Latin discessio ….meaning departure. The Tyndale Bible 1534, the Geneva Bible, and the Cramer Bible first published in 1537, all translated apostasia as departed ….these versions all preceded the King James version printed in 1611.

What happened with KJV …we don’t really know….. but one of the fatal mistakes the translators made was in failing to take into consideration the definite article (the) before the word apostasia which appears in the Greek text. The article may be used to point out an object, the identity of which is defined by some previous reference made to it in the context…. The translators of the Authorized KJ Version looked for the definition of the word in the subsequent context…. whereas the Greek article points here to a previous context…. namely to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in the air and the gathering together of the Saints to Him.

We need to look at this from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used….

the usage of the article draws our attention to the identity and special significance of this particular departure. The Greeks do not need the article to make the noun definite as used in English. In the Greek a substantive is definite without the article……The article originally came from the demonstrative pronoun such as “this” or “that” …. which calls attention with special emphasis to a designated object. Its function is to point out an object or draw attention to it….. It is used with a word that makes the word stand out distinctly. Whenever the Greeks used “the” article, it points out individual identity…. and it marks a specific object of thought.

The Greeks used the article with infinitives, adjectives, adverbs, prepositional phrases, and clauses …..or even with whole sentences….. We do not have a corresponding English usage or anything even remotely similar. When the article hē (= the) appears in Greek ….it always signals some special significance. And we need to look at the matter from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used.

Apostasia = departure. The cognitive neuter noun apostasia occurs three times Mat 5:31, Mat 19:7 & Mar 10:4…. of divorce, the departure of a husband and wife from each other. The word used here is a feminine noun with only one other occurrence in the New Testament… Act 21:21 regarding a departure from Moses… that is, a departure from the mosaic law. The departure referred to here in 2Thes 2 is explained in verses 2:6-8 of 2Thesas the removal of a restraint.

2Th 2:1 begins this discussion with regard to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering up together with him. This verse in chapter 2 …taken together with the previous verses in the first chapter suggest that the departure refers to the gathering together of holy ones… which precedes both the appearance of the lawless one and the day of the Lord. Therefore, we can conclude that the Bible definition of the word, apostasia is departure.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



II Thes 2:1-8

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Brethren indicates Paul is talking to those in the body of Christ…. born again believers.

By the “coming” of our lord Jesus Christ AND “gathering together” unto Him (2 things) coming and gathering ….addressed to born again believers of the church of God.


2Th2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of [Christ] Lord is at hand.

Just as today, there were those spreading false information including → that the day of the Lord is taking place right now.

The word Christ should be translated Lord. All critical Greek text read Lord.

KJV/NKJV is the only common version that has Christ. Any reference to the Lords Day or Day of the Lord is referencing the tribulation period.



2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the departure (hē apostasia) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

In order to not be deceived,…..we need to be aware that there is a departure first.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Remember (dudes) brethren…. I went over this stuff with you…Paul had previously told them in 1Th 1:9&10, 1Th 2:19, 1Th 4:13-18, 1Th 5:1-11



2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

withholdeth …holds back …detains

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth= witholdeth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Letteth is the same word as withholdeth.. (katechō)

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

And then ….when? ….When that which detains is gone….taken out of the way …departed. ….Once light is gone …darkness takes free reign.

The Apostacy/Falling Away/Departure from faith&truth spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is confirmed by these Witnesses:

A.) by the Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 24:4-10
B.) by the Holy Spirit in 1 Timothy 4:1
C.) by the Apostle John in 1 John 2:15-19
D.) by Jude in Jude 1:1-5

WARNING: NEVER change Scripture to support or believe a lie.

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

E.) Provide clear Scripture Comparison = Side by Side = that proves a clear observable line of demarcation separating the Second Coming as being clearly a separate event from a supposed THIRD event (Day of the Lord).

This must be clear from scripture passage denoting the SC from DoL as TWO Distinct and Separate TIME Delays.

You are apparently either not reading my posts, or not "hearing" what it is I've put, because that's not what I said.

Try reading my posts again[??]







"The Day of the Lord" INCLUDES [starting with the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; per 1Th5:1-3, Matt24:4/Mk13:5, 2Th2:9a,8a,6b,3c (man of sin)]," aka the FIRST SEAL]:

--the ENTIRE earthly-located Tribulation Period (Seals, Trumpets, Vials), AND

--His Second Coming to the earth, AND

--the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age







IOW, "the day of the Lord" is ONE LONG CONTINUOUS earthly-located TIME-PERIOD, "IN WHICH" MUCH will transpire within it.





It is not a "separate" event (as you say above) from His Second Coming to the earth;

His Second Coming to the earth is ONE of the MANY THINGS which takes place WITHIN IT

...but far from being the FIRST THING which takes place within it. No!


It ARRIVES *WELL-BEFORE* the point in time of His Second Coming to the earth: 1Th5:1-3 tells us this [its ARRIVAL is "EXACTLY AS [hosper]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman... (think: Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 WELL-BEFORE the AOD time-slot even, v.14!)], when understood in connection with other Scriptures speaking of "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" Jesus Himself spoke of... and not viewing this 1Th5:1-3 IN A VACUUM / APART FROM any other passages / as if this is a STAND-ALONE PASSAGE which can be interpreted "willy-nilly," any old way we choose, to suit our own fancy, to fit our own "eschatological" viewpoint (i.e. instead of letting IT tell US... us IMPOSING our own ideas INTO the text--big no-no).


Again, "the day of the Lord" [A TIME PERIOD] ARRIVES "IN THE NIGHT" 1Th5:1-3 (which is WHEN the "LAMPS LIT" will then take place / pertain to), but that's NOT at the point of His Second Coming to the earth, but instead WHAT LEADS UP TO IT!!

 

[DavidTree]

You are apparently either not reading my posts, or not "hearing" what it is I've put, because that's not what I said.

Try reading my posts again[??]







"The Day of the Lord" INCLUDES [starting with the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; per 1Th5:1-3, Matt24:4/Mk13:5, 2Th2:9a,8a,6b,3c (man of sin)]," aka the FIRST SEAL]:

--the ENTIRE earthly-located Tribulation Period (Seals, Trumpets, Vials), AND

--His Second Coming to the earth, AND

--the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age







IOW, "the day of the Lord" is ONE LONG CONTINUOUS earthly-located TIME-PERIOD, "IN WHICH" MUCH will transpire within it.





It is not a "separate" event (as you say above) from His Second Coming to the earth;

His Second Coming to the earth is ONE of the MANY THINGS which takes place WITHIN IT

...but far from being the FIRST THING which takes place within it. No!


It ARRIVES *WELL-BEFORE* the point in time of His Second Coming to the earth: 1Th5:1-3 tells us this [its ARRIVAL is "EXACTLY AS [hosper]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman... (think: Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 WELL-BEFORE the AOD time-slot even, v.14!)], when understood in connection with other Scriptures speaking of "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" Jesus Himself spoke of... and not viewing this 1Th5:1-3 IN A VACUUM / APART FROM any other passages / as if this is a STAND-ALONE PASSAGE which can be interpreted "willy-nilly," any old way we choose, to suit our own fancy, to fit our own "eschatological" viewpoint (i.e. instead of letting IT tell US... us IMPOSING our own ideas INTO the text--big no-no).


Again, "the day of the Lord" [A TIME PERIOD] ARRIVES "IN THE NIGHT" 1Th5:1-3 (which is WHEN the "LAMPS LIT" will then take place / pertain to), but that's NOT at the point of His Second Coming to the earth, but instead WHAT LEADS UP TO IT!!

1 Thessalonians 5:1-10 - Now about the times and seasons, brothers, we do not need to write to you. For you are fully aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

But you, brothers, are not in the darkness so that this day should overtake you like a thief. For you are all sons of the light and sons of the day; we do not belong to the night or to the darkness. So then, let us not sleep as the others do, but let us remain awake and sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night; and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet of our hope of salvation.

For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him. Therefore encourage and build one another up, just as you are already doing.

Have you forgotten that this passage of Scripture is preceded by chapters 1-4???

Chapter 1:10 - "and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath."
WHERE is Jesus coming from? = "from Heaven" = HELLO - Time to wake up.......

Chapter 2:14-15 (While we are waiting) = "For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Judea that are in Christ Jesus.
You suffered from your own countrymen the very things they suffered from the Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and drove us out as well."

Chapter 3:3 (While we wait for Jesus) = "so that none of you would be shaken by these trials/tribulation.
For you know that we are destined for this.
Indeed, when we were with you, we kept warning you that we would suffer persecution"

Chapter 4: 13-18 What to expect as we LOOK for the Second Coming of Christ
Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep/DIED in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who have DIED (in Christ).

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God,
and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And so we will always be with the Lord.


ALL this TRUTH preceeds chapter 5
THERFORE
Chapter 5 is SUBJECT to chapters 1-4

HELLO - Holy Spirit Speaking to the saints on earth = no/nada/zippo pre-trib rapture = pre-trib never came out of the mouth of God.

 

[cv5]

I continually hear of the falling away of believers before Christ’s return….Hopefully this will clarify that misconception….It is not a falling away …but a departure……We be gone, baby.

A look at the word hē apostasia …translated in verse 2:3 as a falling away which has been wrongly understood as a falling away of the faithful…(turning unfaithful) believers….but that is not how this reads..

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a “falling away” and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



First understand that…. The English version prior to King James version.. translated apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as departing. The King James or authorized version was the first to translate apostasia as falling away.

Jerome's Latin translation of the vulgate around 400 AD, translate the Greek apostasia as Latin discessio ….meaning departure. The Tyndale Bible 1534, the Geneva Bible, and the Cramer Bible first published in 1537, all translated apostasia as departed ….these versions all preceded the King James version printed in 1611.

What happened with KJV …we don’t really know….. but one of the fatal mistakes the translators made was in failing to take into consideration the definite article (the) before the word apostasia which appears in the Greek text. The article may be used to point out an object, the identity of which is defined by some previous reference made to it in the context…. The translators of the Authorized KJ Version looked for the definition of the word in the subsequent context…. whereas the Greek article points here to a previous context…. namely to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in the air and the gathering together of the Saints to Him.

We need to look at this from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used….

the usage of the article draws our attention to the identity and special significance of this particular departure. The Greeks do not need the article to make the noun definite as used in English. In the Greek a substantive is definite without the article……The article originally came from the demonstrative pronoun such as “this” or “that” …. which calls attention with special emphasis to a designated object. Its function is to point out an object or draw attention to it….. It is used with a word that makes the word stand out distinctly. Whenever the Greeks used “the” article, it points out individual identity…. and it marks a specific object of thought.

The Greeks used the article with infinitives, adjectives, adverbs, prepositional phrases, and clauses …..or even with whole sentences….. We do not have a corresponding English usage or anything even remotely similar. When the article hē (= the) appears in Greek ….it always signals some special significance. And we need to look at the matter from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used.

Apostasia = departure. The cognitive neuter noun apostasia occurs three times Mat 5:31, Mat 19:7 & Mar 10:4…. of divorce, the departure of a husband and wife from each other. The word used here is a feminine noun with only one other occurrence in the New Testament… Act 21:21 regarding a departure from Moses… that is, a departure from the mosaic law. The departure referred to here in 2Thes 2 is explained in verses 2:6-8 of 2Thesas the removal of a restraint.

2Th 2:1 begins this discussion with regard to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering up together with him. This verse in chapter 2 …taken together with the previous verses in the first chapter suggest that the departure refers to the gathering together of holy ones… which precedes both the appearance of the lawless one and the day of the Lord. Therefore, we can conclude that the Bible definition of the word, apostasia is departure.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



II Thes 2:1-8

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Brethren indicates Paul is talking to those in the body of Christ…. born again believers.

By the “coming” of our lord Jesus Christ AND “gathering together” unto Him (2 things) coming and gathering ….addressed to born again believers of the church of God.


2Th2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of [Christ] Lord is at hand.

Just as today, there were those spreading false information including → that the day of the Lord is taking place right now.

The word Christ should be translated Lord. All critical Greek text read Lord.

KJV/NKJV is the only common version that has Christ. Any reference to the Lords Day or Day of the Lord is referencing the tribulation period.



2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the departure (hē apostasia) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

In order to not be deceived,…..we need to be aware that there is a departure first.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Remember (dudes) brethren…. I went over this stuff with you…Paul had previously told them in 1Th 1:9&10, 1Th 2:19, 1Th 4:13-18, 1Th 5:1-11



2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

withholdeth …holds back …detains

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth= witholdeth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Letteth is the same word as withholdeth.. (katechō)

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

And then ….when? ….When that which detains is gone….taken out of the way …departed. ….Once light is gone …darkness takes free reign.

Good job my friend. The pre-trib rapture is boilerplate doctrine. One of the best represented in all of the NT.

 

[RichMan]

I continually hear of the falling away of believers before Christ’s return….Hopefully this will clarify that misconception….It is not a falling away …but a departure……We be gone, baby.

A look at the word hē apostasia …translated in verse 2:3 as a falling away which has been wrongly understood as a falling away of the faithful…(turning unfaithful) believers….but that is not how this reads..

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a “falling away” and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



First understand that…. The English version prior to King James version.. translated apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as departing. The King James or authorized version was the first to translate apostasia as falling away.

Jerome's Latin translation of the vulgate around 400 AD, translate the Greek apostasia as Latin discessio ….meaning departure. The Tyndale Bible 1534, the Geneva Bible, and the Cramer Bible first published in 1537, all translated apostasia as departed ….these versions all preceded the King James version printed in 1611.

What happened with KJV …we don’t really know….. but one of the fatal mistakes the translators made was in failing to take into consideration the definite article (the) before the word apostasia which appears in the Greek text. The article may be used to point out an object, the identity of which is defined by some previous reference made to it in the context…. The translators of the Authorized KJ Version looked for the definition of the word in the subsequent context…. whereas the Greek article points here to a previous context…. namely to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in the air and the gathering together of the Saints to Him.

We need to look at this from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used….

the usage of the article draws our attention to the identity and special significance of this particular departure. The Greeks do not need the article to make the noun definite as used in English. In the Greek a substantive is definite without the article……The article originally came from the demonstrative pronoun such as “this” or “that” …. which calls attention with special emphasis to a designated object. Its function is to point out an object or draw attention to it….. It is used with a word that makes the word stand out distinctly. Whenever the Greeks used “the” article, it points out individual identity…. and it marks a specific object of thought.

The Greeks used the article with infinitives, adjectives, adverbs, prepositional phrases, and clauses …..or even with whole sentences….. We do not have a corresponding English usage or anything even remotely similar. When the article hē (= the) appears in Greek ….it always signals some special significance. And we need to look at the matter from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used.

Apostasia = departure. The cognitive neuter noun apostasia occurs three times Mat 5:31, Mat 19:7 & Mar 10:4…. of divorce, the departure of a husband and wife from each other. The word used here is a feminine noun with only one other occurrence in the New Testament… Act 21:21 regarding a departure from Moses… that is, a departure from the mosaic law. The departure referred to here in 2Thes 2 is explained in verses 2:6-8 of 2Thesas the removal of a restraint.

2Th 2:1 begins this discussion with regard to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering up together with him. This verse in chapter 2 …taken together with the previous verses in the first chapter suggest that the departure refers to the gathering together of holy ones… which precedes both the appearance of the lawless one and the day of the Lord. Therefore, we can conclude that the Bible definition of the word, apostasia is departure.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



II Thes 2:1-8

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Brethren indicates Paul is talking to those in the body of Christ…. born again believers.

By the “coming” of our lord Jesus Christ AND “gathering together” unto Him (2 things) coming and gathering ….addressed to born again believers of the church of God.


2Th2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of [Christ] Lord is at hand.

Just as today, there were those spreading false information including → that the day of the Lord is taking place right now.

The word Christ should be translated Lord. All critical Greek text read Lord.

KJV/NKJV is the only common version that has Christ. Any reference to the Lords Day or Day of the Lord is referencing the tribulation period.



2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the departure (hē apostasia) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

In order to not be deceived,…..we need to be aware that there is a departure first.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Remember (dudes) brethren…. I went over this stuff with you…Paul had previously told them in 1Th 1:9&10, 1Th 2:19, 1Th 4:13-18, 1Th 5:1-11



2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

withholdeth …holds back …detains

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth= witholdeth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Letteth is the same word as withholdeth.. (katechō)

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

And then ….when? ….When that which detains is gone….taken out of the way …departed. ….Once light is gone …darkness takes free reign.

The great falling away is in full swing as many are falling away from the truth and believing fables.
Your post is proof.

 

[JTB]

The great falling away is in full swing as many are falling away from the truth and believing fables.
Your post is proof.

Matthew 24:10
New International Version
At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,

Couldn't be clearer, right?

 

[Randy4u2c]

I continually hear of the falling away of believers before Christ’s return….Hopefully this will clarify that misconception….It is not a falling away …but a departure……We be gone, baby.

A look at the word hē apostasia …translated in verse 2:3 as a falling away which has been wrongly understood as a falling away of the faithful…(turning unfaithful) believers….but that is not how this reads..

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a “falling away” and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



First understand that…. The English version prior to King James version.. translated apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as departing. The King James or authorized version was the first to translate apostasia as falling away.

Jerome's Latin translation of the vulgate around 400 AD, translate the Greek apostasia as Latin discessio ….meaning departure. The Tyndale Bible 1534, the Geneva Bible, and the Cramer Bible first published in 1537, all translated apostasia as departed ….these versions all preceded the King James version printed in 1611.

What happened with KJV …we don’t really know….. but one of the fatal mistakes the translators made was in failing to take into consideration the definite article (the) before the word apostasia which appears in the Greek text. The article may be used to point out an object, the identity of which is defined by some previous reference made to it in the context…. The translators of the Authorized KJ Version looked for the definition of the word in the subsequent context…. whereas the Greek article points here to a previous context…. namely to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in the air and the gathering together of the Saints to Him.

We need to look at this from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used….

the usage of the article draws our attention to the identity and special significance of this particular departure. The Greeks do not need the article to make the noun definite as used in English. In the Greek a substantive is definite without the article……The article originally came from the demonstrative pronoun such as “this” or “that” …. which calls attention with special emphasis to a designated object. Its function is to point out an object or draw attention to it….. It is used with a word that makes the word stand out distinctly. Whenever the Greeks used “the” article, it points out individual identity…. and it marks a specific object of thought.

The Greeks used the article with infinitives, adjectives, adverbs, prepositional phrases, and clauses …..or even with whole sentences….. We do not have a corresponding English usage or anything even remotely similar. When the article hē (= the) appears in Greek ….it always signals some special significance. And we need to look at the matter from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used.

Apostasia = departure. The cognitive neuter noun apostasia occurs three times Mat 5:31, Mat 19:7 & Mar 10:4…. of divorce, the departure of a husband and wife from each other. The word used here is a feminine noun with only one other occurrence in the New Testament… Act 21:21 regarding a departure from Moses… that is, a departure from the mosaic law. The departure referred to here in 2Thes 2 is explained in verses 2:6-8 of 2Thesas the removal of a restraint.

2Th 2:1 begins this discussion with regard to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering up together with him. This verse in chapter 2 …taken together with the previous verses in the first chapter suggest that the departure refers to the gathering together of holy ones… which precedes both the appearance of the lawless one and the day of the Lord. Therefore, we can conclude that the Bible definition of the word, apostasia is departure.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



II Thes 2:1-8

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Brethren indicates Paul is talking to those in the body of Christ…. born again believers.

By the “coming” of our lord Jesus Christ AND “gathering together” unto Him (2 things) coming and gathering ….addressed to born again believers of the church of God.


2Th2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of [Christ] Lord is at hand.

Just as today, there were those spreading false information including → that the day of the Lord is taking place right now.

The word Christ should be translated Lord. All critical Greek text read Lord.

KJV/NKJV is the only common version that has Christ. Any reference to the Lords Day or Day of the Lord is referencing the tribulation period.



2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the departure (hē apostasia) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

In order to not be deceived,…..we need to be aware that there is a departure first.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Remember (dudes) brethren…. I went over this stuff with you…Paul had previously told them in 1Th 1:9&10, 1Th 2:19, 1Th 4:13-18, 1Th 5:1-11



2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

withholdeth …holds back …detains

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth= witholdeth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Letteth is the same word as withholdeth.. (katechō)

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

And then ….when? ….When that which detains is gone….taken out of the way …departed. ….Once light is gone …darkness takes free reign.

My take on the subject is that Satan will come first, before Jesus, claiming to be God, II Thess 2:1-4. He will perform great wonders in the sight of men to deceive them into worshipping him as God, Rev 13:11-13. The great falling away or departure will be by those who are deceived into worshipping Satan, because they were never taught that Satan comes first at the 6th trump and that Jesus doesn't return until the 7th. They will pray for the mountains to fall on them when the true Christ returns at the 7th trump and they realize they were deceived. Rev 6:15-17.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I continually hear of the falling away of believers before Christ’s return….Hopefully this will clarify that misconception….It is not a falling away …but a departure……We be gone, baby.

A look at the word hē apostasia …translated in verse 2:3 as a falling away which has been wrongly understood as a falling away of the faithful…(turning unfaithful) believers….but that is not how this reads..

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a “falling away” and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



First understand that…. The English version prior to King James version.. translated apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as departing. The King James or authorized version was the first to translate apostasia as falling away.

Jerome's Latin translation of the vulgate around 400 AD, translate the Greek apostasia as Latin discessio ….meaning departure. The Tyndale Bible 1534, the Geneva Bible, and the Cramer Bible first published in 1537, all translated apostasia as departed ….these versions all preceded the King James version printed in 1611.

What happened with KJV …we don’t really know….. but one of the fatal mistakes the translators made was in failing to take into consideration the definite article (the) before the word apostasia which appears in the Greek text. The article may be used to point out an object, the identity of which is defined by some previous reference made to it in the context…. The translators of the Authorized KJ Version looked for the definition of the word in the subsequent context…. whereas the Greek article points here to a previous context…. namely to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in the air and the gathering together of the Saints to Him.

We need to look at this from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used….

the usage of the article draws our attention to the identity and special significance of this particular departure. The Greeks do not need the article to make the noun definite as used in English. In the Greek a substantive is definite without the article……The article originally came from the demonstrative pronoun such as “this” or “that” …. which calls attention with special emphasis to a designated object. Its function is to point out an object or draw attention to it….. It is used with a word that makes the word stand out distinctly. Whenever the Greeks used “the” article, it points out individual identity…. and it marks a specific object of thought.

The Greeks used the article with infinitives, adjectives, adverbs, prepositional phrases, and clauses …..or even with whole sentences….. We do not have a corresponding English usage or anything even remotely similar. When the article hē (= the) appears in Greek ….it always signals some special significance. And we need to look at the matter from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used.

Apostasia = departure. The cognitive neuter noun apostasia occurs three times Mat 5:31, Mat 19:7 & Mar 10:4…. of divorce, the departure of a husband and wife from each other. The word used here is a feminine noun with only one other occurrence in the New Testament… Act 21:21 regarding a departure from Moses… that is, a departure from the mosaic law. The departure referred to here in 2Thes 2 is explained in verses 2:6-8 of 2Thesas the removal of a restraint.

2Th 2:1 begins this discussion with regard to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering up together with him. This verse in chapter 2 …taken together with the previous verses in the first chapter suggest that the departure refers to the gathering together of holy ones… which precedes both the appearance of the lawless one and the day of the Lord. Therefore, we can conclude that the Bible definition of the word, apostasia is departure.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



II Thes 2:1-8

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Brethren indicates Paul is talking to those in the body of Christ…. born again believers.

By the “coming” of our lord Jesus Christ AND “gathering together” unto Him (2 things) coming and gathering ….addressed to born again believers of the church of God.


2Th2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of [Christ] Lord is at hand.

Just as today, there were those spreading false information including → that the day of the Lord is taking place right now.

The word Christ should be translated Lord. All critical Greek text read Lord.

KJV/NKJV is the only common version that has Christ. Any reference to the Lords Day or Day of the Lord is referencing the tribulation period.



2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the departure (hē apostasia) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

In order to not be deceived,…..we need to be aware that there is a departure first.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Remember (dudes) brethren…. I went over this stuff with you…Paul had previously told them in 1Th 1:9&10, 1Th 2:19, 1Th 4:13-18, 1Th 5:1-11



2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

withholdeth …holds back …detains

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth= witholdeth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Letteth is the same word as withholdeth.. (katechō)

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

And then ….when? ….When that which detains is gone….taken out of the way …departed. ….Once light is gone …darkness takes free reign.

Falling away in 2 Th 2:3, in the Strong's concordance means "forsake". Forsake= leave= depart. Falling away and departure, are the same meaning according to Greek translation.