No one helplessly falls away from Christ - it's a choice

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Encouragement

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2020
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#21
Nothing can separate a believer. Rom 8
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37¶Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I know that..All I am saying is that the enemie will naturally attack the beliver inaccordance with the "truth" they know..whereas a person who is deceived by the false teaching of another religion doesn't poses a threat to him in the same way a beliver is...That may even explain my many put us to shame coz there have no resistance from him in regards to they they belive..whereas we do have a degree of spiritual opposition...yet iam not implying that we are not secure in christ ect or wont overcome despite this spiritual battle
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#22
I know that..All I am saying is that the enemie will naturally attack the beliver inaccordance with the "truth" they know..whereas a person who is deceived by the false teaching of another religion doesn't poses a threat to him in the same way a beliver is...That may even explain my many put us to shame coz there have no resistance from him in regards to they they belive..whereas we do have a degree of spiritual opposition...yet iam not implying that we are not secure in christ ect or wont overcome despite this spiritual battle
Do you believe we can forfeit salvation?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#25
Yes that's right of course that's possible and there are varying degrees in which such things happen in a belivers life.The scripture is full of many truths concerning the security we have in christ..yet in the other element the scriptures also addresses the ability to make decisions and choices too within the dynamic of salvation which is Gods gift to us.Philipians 2:12 Paul encourages us to work our out salvation ect...not to work for if as it is God free gift to us..but to work it out.There are countless verbs throughout the new testament instructing us how to be.Obviously we are under grace not law and its within these parameters that a person can for some reason turn away from the lord for whatever reason and as I mentioned previously I am sure many come back to a place in God.
There is nothing wrong with the various terms use to describe a person who turns away for the lord..hosea 14:4 mentions thr term backsliding..other says "turn away",or "forsake"...Plus I wasnt even suggesting a person could loose their salvation yet some will be deceived into think they are right with him...but he never knew them Matt 7:22...plus jesus said its this who do his fathers will will enter into heaven.
"the kingdom of heaven" is not eternal heaven, but is one, of many, names that is referred to as the church. Such as, the church of God, the kingdom of God, the church of Christ, the church of the first born, the new Jerusalem, the church in the wilderness, sion, etc.

Once we have been regenerated, we still carry the baggage of our sinful nature, and do, at times, yield ourselves to the temptations that are in the world. When we turn away from God, we temporary lose our fellowship with him until we repent, and he forgives us. We do not lose our eternal inheritance, just our fellowship with him temporary

If "the kingdom of heaven" was eternal heaven, and we could earn our entrance into it by doing the Father's will, then it would be eternal salvation by our good works.

You have misquoted Matt 7:21. It does not say "those who do his Father's will will enter into "heaven" but it says they will enter into the kingdom of heaven, which is not eternal heaven.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#26
its more about what they say and not necessarily their conduct. There are no doubt many unsaved people who look like Christians but are not . If you lined up a jehovah witness , a Mormon, and a Christian and followed them around all day to see how they behave you might see the cults put us to shame. But ask them who Jesus is and what the Gospel is , now you.ll see the truth .
You are slicing God's elect too thinly.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#28
Nothing can separate a believer. Rom 8
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37¶Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I don't usually agree with you, but this post I agree with.
 

Lookupnotback

Active member
Sep 26, 2020
169
47
28
#29

They had been redeemed. They were willing to follow Moses (though many times, they wished they hadn't). They had some sincerity in originally having chosen to follow Moses. It is the same way, when people choose to follow God. As can be seen in the demonstrations of the parable of the Sower, and the various soil types. A person can easily be sincere in choices they make in life. They may feel overwhelmingly certain that what they have found is good and something they want. So in that way, at that point, can be called, "sincere" - in this feeling and decion they've made. But some things that we begin with the conclusion that something we've found is right and good - we later come to decide that we don't want after all. Examples: Seeking a mate - sometimes, later on in the relationship, one comes to see that the one they're dating is not the right one to marry, or not as desirable as they'd at first assumed - so he or she breaks off the engagement. It is proper to discontinue something we later discover is not something that would be good for us. Another example: Sometimes, we buy something we overwhelmingly think is desirable and "just what we need" - but later on, we regret we had bought it, and get rid of it.
The same thing often happens in that matter of choosing to accept God's gift of salvation. As can be seen in the parable of the Sower. Some of them who begin with Christ, faithfully continue on throughout hardships & temptations they encounter - without falling away from Christ. But others of them, turn away from Christ, after having been tried by hardships or temptations long enough for it to be possible to determine how faithful they will eventually will be - after that initial starting period.
No one helplessly falls away from Christ, as we all have the ability to make choices in life - God has made it that way. Everyone who chooses to remain faithful to Christ, has ways to help keep himself faithful in Christ - ways the Bible tells us of: Regular prayer, putting on the whole armor of God regularly, etc. God has explained all of that to us, so that we have plenty of ways to keep ourselves faithful to God to the end of our lives.
Paul had full certainty (Philippians 1:23) that he would end up in heaven and that he wouldn't fall away from Christ in this life. That's because he chose to make pleasing God in this life, the most important thing he wanted. He had good certainty, but not complete, absolute certainty about Timothy - it seems, since he also warned him to be careful to remain true to God (I Timothy 6:15). But that shouldn't be surprising - none of us knows what's in other people's hearts as well as God can. All we can know with certainty, if we prayerfully and sincerely serve God and have been tried enough - is that we unbendingly plan to continue to be faithful to Him throughout the end of our lives, and that therefore, God has given us the power to do so.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
So you see? It is not our doing but God’s handwork is salvation and the very ability to believe (which is through faith), is a gift from God....and so people can have “spiritual”, experiences and such but not be redeemed at all but just in a place of “church” type words and emotionalism’s seductive snare, thinking they are children of God buuuut the sad truth is they are children still of their father of lies and just serving some sort of emotional tripping’s course of destruction:(
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
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#30
Back 20 years ago, my RA was largely untreated. I had moved to a new province and couldn't find a church. I grew more and more depressed. I finally turned away from God!

But he did not turn away from me! The whole time, I knew he was there, just waiting for me to turn around. I sulked for 2 years. Then God told me to read 5 Psalms a day. I still resisted. But finally I started, and I found people just like me. In the Psalms. Some hurting, yet rejoicing, sinning but repenting. And I saw the sovereignty of God!

God gave me this verse:

"Why am I so depressed?
Why this turmoil within me?
Put your hope in God, for I will still praise Him,
my Savior and my God." Psalm 42:5 HCSB

I finally went running back into my Father's arms. He had me in a good church almost immediately, and called me to seminary. I've never turned away from God again.

I learned that God will never leave me or forsake me. Hebrews 13:5 I wish every Christian understood this. Arminianism is a lie, and it destroys faith and trust in God.

I trust God and his promises and I know for 40 years, He has kept me in the palm of his hand. I pray everyone will understand that God's love never fails!
 

Lookupnotback

Active member
Sep 26, 2020
169
47
28
#31
I know that..All I am saying is that the enemie will naturally attack the beliver inaccordance with the "truth" they know..whereas a person who is deceived by the false teaching of another religion doesn't poses a threat to him in the same way a beliver is...That may even explain my many put us to shame coz there have no resistance from him in regards to they they belive..whereas we do have a degree of spiritual opposition...yet iam not implying that we are not secure in christ ect or wont overcome despite this spiritual battle
Are you familar with the passage of “Lord! lord! Have we not?....and ends with Christ in his judgmental role earned by his work upon the cross in speaking to those who thought they were empowered by him in the works they did for satan in their selfishness within what they thought were churches of God.
 

Encouragement

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2020
1,488
1,298
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#32
Are you familar with the passage of “Lord! lord! Have we not?....and ends with Christ in his judgmental role earned by his work upon the cross in speaking to those who thought they were empowered by him in the works they did for satan in their selfishness within what they thought were churches of God.
Of course I am.The context I was referring to was about those who are not Christian and most certainly don't categorize themselves as being Christian at all but of a totally different religion like Muslim,hindu,Sikh ect..
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
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#34
Jesus had not died on the cross , dying for the sins of the world . The resurrection had not happened either. The Holy Spirit had not been given either .
Ezek 18v24: ""But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die."
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
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#35
Ezek 18v24: ""But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die."
Again Jesus had not died on the cross , dying for the sins of the world . The resurrection had not happened either. The Holy Spirit had not been given either .
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,468
13,412
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58
#36
Really?

Judas not only backslid, he went into apostasy...by a freewill choice!
Judas was not saved and lost his salvation, but instead, was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11)
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
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#37
Ezek 18v24: ""But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die."
Ezekiel is to Israel , and its about physical death .
 

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
Sep 5, 2014
804
317
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#38
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
So you see? It is not our doing but God’s handwork is salvation and the very ability to believe (which is through faith), is a gift from God....and so people can have “spiritual”, experiences and such but not be redeemed at all but just in a place of “church” type words and emotionalism’s seductive snare, thinking they are children of God buuuut the sad truth is they are children still of their father of lies and just serving some sort of emotional tripping’s course of destruction:(
Many sincere Christians explain it as you do. But they fail to see that although we are saved by God's grace - His grace is not available to those who do not sincerely accept His lordship over their lives. It helps to study all that the scriptures say on the subject of the way of salvation and of how to keep it, and to compare them, without nullifying the truth of either aspect. While Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world - it is only those who sincerely repent, who can be recipients of salvation through His grace. They need to initially repent in their hearts, and have the desire to change for the better. On that basis, if that is true of them, and they accept Jesus as Lord (God) and Savior of their life - they are saved. But to keep saved, one needs to prayerfully remain in their relationship with God, and to not willfully drift away from it.


There are numerous warnings against falling away from Christ, throughout the New Testament. So it's clear there are ways to prevent it from happening. See a long list of verses on the subject:
https://www.openbible.info/topics/falling_away
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
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#39
Many sincere Christians explain it as you do. But they fail to see that although we are saved by God's grace - His grace is not available to those who do not sincerely accept His lordship over their lives. It helps to study all that the scriptures say on the subject of the way of salvation and of how to keep it, and to compare them, without nullifying the truth of either aspect. While Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world - it is only those who sincerely repent, who can be recipients of salvation through His grace. They need to initially repent in their hearts, and have the desire to change for the better. On that basis, if that is true of them, and they accept Jesus as Lord (God) and Savior of their life - they are saved. But to keep saved, one needs to prayerfully remain in their relationship with God, and to not willfully drift away from it.


There are numerous warnings against falling away from Christ, throughout the New Testament. So it's clear there are ways to prevent it from happening. See a long list of verses on the subject:
https://www.openbible.info/topics/falling_away
Again this is not biblical .We are saved by faith ,not our promises and works. Salvation is secured by the sealing of the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, not our loyalty and obedience. This is the problem with Lordship salvation. On the surface it sounds good and pious . But its nothing more than virtue signalling and legalism .
 

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
Sep 5, 2014
804
317
63
#40
No one can fall away from Christ . Thankfully .
Many sincere Christians believe this. But this isn't what I see in the Bible. It's true that as long as one makes the choice, prayerfully, to remain in Christ - they are safe and are kept from falling away. But there's evidence that not all new converts do remain faithful to Him and there's evidence that some do fall away. Look at a list of verses on the subject of how some fall away and how the scriptures warn believers from falling away (there is no longer danger of it happening to those who have been proven through hardships, and have become solidly fully surrendered to God, though):

https://www.openbible.info/topics/falling_away