Not By Works

[Endoscopy]

So God has a standard? I agree. So are you saying that if we believe in Jesus and the message of the cross, that we do not have to be obedient to the commandments of God because the cross covers us. We do nothing, and the cross covers us. In fact we sin, but the cross covers us. We never have to repent of our sins and try to move forward because the cross covers us. So God says: only believe on Jesus and I will lift you over the standard because of the cross.

My message is that we believe in Jesus and by faith we obey the commandments of God and live a life that is full of good works, and of course you can never have enough good works to reach the standard that God has set, but that is where we have trust that Jesus will make up our shortfall and by the cross will finally lift us up over the standard and to eternal life.

Your theology seems to focus on the cross does everything, and we do not have to obey or live the commandments, or repent, or even be baptized. We don't have to have zeal, or endure to the end or anything. These are all prominent words in the bible that it seems like you are ignoring because you believe the cross has done away with them.

For instance, why should I repent of my sins, the cross has me covered? But yet the bible is full of the verbiage to repent. I understand that sometimes Jesus and the apostles are talking to persons who are not Christians, but let me give you this example in the scriptures:
Revelation 2:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Explain to me why Jesus was telling the believers of Ephesus that they needed to repent, if the cross covered them, why threaten them that their candlestick will be removed out of his place except they repent? Kind of confusing, don't you think?


You talk with authority about the law? Do you understand the law of Christ?

Galatians 6:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

The law of Christ is not the same as the law of Moses. The law of Christ supercedes the law of Moses. So tell me:
1) what do you know of the law of Christ?
2) must we fulfil the law of Christ in order to be saved?

First Jesus had yet to be crucified.

You are misrepresenting the Christian gospel.
1. Jesus said the law is eternal.
2. All of us fail to keep the 613 rules of the law and sin breaking the law.
3. Jesus kept the law and became the unblemished Lamb of God.
4. Repenting and accepting his sacrifice removes the penalty for us breaking the law.

 

[benhur]

God saves you the moment you have faith.

Those who have faith in God to save them eternally will also have faith in minor things, and actually do works.

What part of titus 3: 5 do you not understand?

NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, but BY HIS MERCY HEW SAVED US!

is it really that hard?

No, it is not very difficult. Our works of righteousness will never save us. It takes the cross and mercy and grace of Jesus Christ to save us. However, as you said in your post #57325, if you do no works, Jesus will know that you have no faith in him, and if you have no faith in him, you were never saved in the first place.

So Paul was right. It is not by our works that save us, but it is by our works that we know we are saved.

Can you agree with that?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

No, it is not very difficult. Our works of righteousness will never save us. It takes the cross and mercy and grace of Jesus Christ to save us. However, as you said in your post #57325, if you do no works, Jesus will know that you have no faith in him, and if you have no faith in him, you were never saved in the first place.

So Paul was right. It is not by our works that save us, but it is by our works that we know we are saved.

Can you agree with that?

well you misrepresented what he said


from the way you see things
you're saved apart from works

but Jesus doesn't know it until He sees works?


ridiculous if that's what you're implying



daily scripture bump

romans 4
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[Endoscopy]

No, it is not very difficult. Our works of righteousness will never save us. It takes the cross and mercy and grace of Jesus Christ to save us. However, as you said in your post #57325, if you do no works, Jesus will know that you have no faith in him, and if you have no faith in him, you were never saved in the first place.

So Paul was right. It is not by our works that save us, but it is by our works that we know we are saved.

Can you agree with that?

I totally agree. The Bible states faith without works is dead. Therefore works is the confirmation of faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, it is not very difficult. Our works of righteousness will never save us. It takes the cross and mercy and grace of Jesus Christ to save us. However, as you said in your post #57325, if you do no works, Jesus will know that you have no faith in him, and if you have no faith in him, you were never saved in the first place.

So Paul was right. It is not by our works that save us, but it is by our works that we know we are saved.

Can you agree with that?

Does Jesus (Omniscient God) Need us to prove to him our faith is real? Are you really going to go there?

No, I can not for a minute belittle the character and power of My God in knowing that when a person asks him for his salvation, he does not know if their faiht is real. Or if their faith is dead.

Again, Your focused to much on works, and not on Christ for my comfort..


and forgive me for asking, but where does baptism fit here> Since you claim it is REQURED.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Yes he did

Gal 3: [SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

Have you met this standard? Can you meet this standard?



There you go again, I refuse from this point to respond to continued nonsense such as this, It is not true (I did not say this) and I never have.

can you answer the first question? Can you or have you lived up to Gods standard? Lets start here, then maybe we can move forward with our discussions.

Translation - How dare you suggest I do not believe in following Gods commands, I believe
in following and failing to follow them, because following is impossible, which is why I need
Christ to be my righteousness, holiness and purity, because as a sinner I should be condemned
to hell. I am not a light, but an honest sinner who can do no more, and God will reward my
honest failure and forgive me, as He did when I came to faith and continued in my sin.

This is the honest pharisee approach. I am a hypocrite, but God desires honest hypocrites
because that allows Him to save us.

I call this abject defeat and unbelief. God the creator did not come and die upon the cross
so that sin might have dominion over us, and we might not be made pure and blameless.

Now those who have never met Jesus, and I mean never met Jesus, will always claim sin
cannot be defeated because they have no answer, other than this religion. They criticize
religion for words with no reality, while actually doing the same thing, and claiming their
words will save them without any change or transformation. They will then claim they
believe in transformation from heaven, but failed transformation that does not make them
Holy and pure, just appear to God to be Holy and pure.

This double speak is so insane, and so incomplete, they will argue both sides as if that
makes sense, and chose whichever they think the person is weakest on.

What as believers in Jesus need to understand, is Gods view on purity, blamelessness
and holiness, because then we can rightly apply these words and know our foundation,
even though our hearts declare we know Him and He is our Lord. It is this reality
unbelievers will always never be able to enter into, so be encouraged, brothers and sisters,
that you are saved by the King of Kings and He loves you enough to die for you to open up
the way for you to walk into salvation and eternity, Amen

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Some people will never get it, and their slander just proves their hypocricy, and just not worth responding to.

Just have to let them wallow in their own mire. And continue to eath their vomit!

 

[benhur]

So you cannot understand the difference between God's (free) gift of eternal salvation and our daily walk. "Freely freely you have received, freely freely give.", as the gospel song implies you cannot earn your eternal salvation but of course you will find a way.

I see the difference. But is this saying a false doctrine: Believe in God's son, plus love God and keep his commandments?

If a person believes God's Son, by this persons faith he will love God and keep his commandments. Am I right?

If a person says he believes God's Son, but does not keep his commandments, then we know this person has little or no faith and therefore does not love God, nor does he keep God's commandments. Therefore we know he was never saved in the first place.

So is this a false doctrine: doing good works = saved, (hint: we know you were saved and you have faith in Jesus Christ)
little or no good works = not saved (hint: we know you were not really saved in the beginning).

 

[TruthTalk]

Some people will never get it, and their slander just proves their hypocricy, and just not worth responding to.

Just have to let them wallow in their own mire. And continue to eath their vomit!

Empty trucks make more noise and at some point we all have to say my ministry to these people is over and dust off our feet. And have you noticed the familiar writing style of Benhur, it sounds so much like Franc who was banned. She would go from thread to thread posing question after question with no clear goal in mind. If it isn't her it must be her twin sister because the writing styles are astonishingly similar.

 

[benhur]

If your really afraid of not making it, You can become catholic. At least they have purgatory. Or become Islam. And join the holy war and commit suicide for god while taken out the infidelity. And you will get an automatic in.

Good idea, however, if you have to rely on a meter, I would suggest you were not really saved in the beginning.

 

[benhur]

so it is ok for you to insult us. But not ok for us to ask you a question?

Can you answer? Where does the cross fit in your theology?

If Jesus did not die on the cross, there is no salvation for any of us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If Jesus did not die on the cross, there is no salvation for any of us.

Alot of people believe that, I mean where does it stand.

to me it is the most important thing. And stands alone. (Jesus said it is finished - paid in full.) What say you?

 

[LightLoveHope]

Faith with no boundaries of righteousness.

Scripture is clear we are saved for works of righteousness, to walk as light in a lost
dark world, to not do evil but do gifts of love and rejoicing.

Now clearly as people oppose this, they declare they are not of the kingdom of light
but darkness, because only darkness would oppose the light.

It is possible to walk cleansed, purified, blameless, forgiven, in communion with God,
rejoicing, lifting Holy hands in praise and thanks for the salvation that comes through
the cross and the victory in our hearts.

Those opposed say yes we walk likewise, but it is Christ walking on our behalf while
we sin and fail, and are still caught in the fallen world. It is like being a believer one
person removed, which is actually someone else is saved and not the believer.

The reason we do not agree with them is because we have met Jesus. If one is pretending to
be purified, cleansed, Holy, walking in communion, then of course their words are true.
And here is the irony. Believers who have grown up in the church and never met Jesus
but try very hard to be "christian" this gospel will appeal, and they will convert.

And they will be totally stumped as to why we do not likewise collapse for their hypocrisy
gospel, not understanding we are not hypocrites, but the real deal. And we shine for
those who are willing to listen to Jesus, and His words, and the words spoken through
the apostles.

We need to be purified, cleansed, washed, healed, made whole, or our faith is of no
value. Paul knew this. Listen again to him,

so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ,
phil 1:10

We are to ask to be able to discern what is best - it is our discernment
and its application that leads us to purity and blamelessness.

Blind teachers talk only of their faith in Jesus doing everything while
scripture teaches us through the Holy Spirit we are to mature, learn
and grow, and become brothers and sisters in Christ, well made, as
free loving people at one in mind and heart with each other and with
Christ. It is this freedom and righteousness in love unbelievers do not
understand, because until you stand in it, it seems impossible.

 

[Magenta]

Scripture is clear we are saved for works of righteousness, to walk as light in a lost
dark world, to not do evil but do gifts of love and rejoicing.

Now clearly as people oppose this...

Who? Who opposes this? You are a great one for spinning tales, at one time saying you cannot say who is saved, and at another saying you do know. Seems to me you argue with yourself, as much as those on this thread who oppose your continual nonsense.

 

[benhur]

John 1: 29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ 31 I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”32 And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. 33 I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”

Its not hard.

Let's see if I can recap this part of the discussion:

I ask the question: Why did Jesus go to John the Baptist to be baptized?

You respond with: John's testimony, that he did not know him, but it was revealed to him, that the one that the spirit falls on is he that baptizes with the HS.

So are you saying that the reason Jesus went to John to be baptized was so John could bear witness that the Son of God was Jesus, and he was here on earth?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let's see if I can recap this part of the discussion:

I ask the question: Why did Jesus go to John the Baptist to be baptized?

You respond with: John's testimony, that he did not know him, but it was revealed to him, that the one that the spirit falls on is he that baptizes with the HS.

So are you saying that the reason Jesus went to John to be baptized was so John could bear witness that the Son of God was Jesus, and he was here on earth?

You asked why jesus was baptised. John told you why and what the purpose was. Yet you still have questions. I do nto know what to tell you.

Go back to the OT. You will see the same thing happen to arron (the first high priest) when God told moses to take him and immerse/wash him in the jordan river.

It was not only for John the baptist. It wasd for all to see. And testify that he is the son of God.


He had no sin, so he did not need washed. So there is no other LOGICAL explanation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Who? Who opposes this? You are a great one for spinning tales, at one time saying you cannot say who is saved, and at another saying you do know. Seems to me you argue with yourself, as much as those on this thread who oppose your continual nonsense.

That is why it is not worth responding to him anymore. All he does is slander people.

 

[kysanikka]

Our salvation is not dependent on any goodness within us, else we'd all be toppled by the judgement. However, isn't it so that good works are evidence of salvation? 2nd Corinthians 5:14 For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.


[h=3]You Will Know Them by Their Fruits[/h][FONT=&quot]15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them[/FONT]

 

[Magenta]

That is why it is not worth responding to him anymore. All he does is slander people.

I would say he also exalts himself He seems to love the sound of his own voice.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yeah I guess Abel was so proud of how much work he did. And so proud of the sheep he gave. (He killed that little lamby)

The point was the what it symbolized. The lamb who gave his life for the sinner. Vs the human good giving the fruit of his labor for his own sin.

Amen......it boils down to the blood which pointed to Christ.....all workers for and sinless perfectionists point to self instead of Christ....anything that glorifies self in any form is false!!