Not By Works

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Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Amen....the blood, mercy, grace and forgiveness found in Christ for a believer is preemptive.....yes we will answer, be judged, lose rewards, squander rewards, maybe be put in the wilderness (no peace in this life), temporarily lose fellowship (just like when we make a family member of friend mad, grieve the Holy Spirit etc. by sin, unfaithfulness, riotous living etc.......but our Spiritual birth is secure, born from above by the power of the Holy Spirit, is of INCORRUPTABLE SEED, and the gift of eternal life is IRREVOCABLE......those who devalue these truths and say ONE can lose it do NOT know the God of Heaven and or Jesus by the faith accurately described in the bible....there are so many promises and verses of scripture that must be rejected, denied, chinked under the bus, twisted out of context etc. to believe it can be lost that if it were true (and it is not) we might as well chunk the bible, because it is not worth the paper it is written on.......!

in·cor·rupt·i·ble
ˌinkəˈrəptəb(ə)l/
adjective

  1. 1.
    not susceptible to corruption, especially by bribery.
    synonyms:honest, honorable, trustworthy, principled, high-principled, unbribable, moral, ethical, good, virtuous
    "an incorruptible man"

    2.
    not subject to death or decay; everlasting.
    synonyms:imperishable, indestructible, in
ir·rev·o·ca·ble
əˈrevəkəb(ə)l/
adjective

  1. not able to be changed, reversed, or recovered; final.
    "an irrevocable step"
    synonyms:irreversible, unalterable, unchangeable, immutable, final, binding, permanent, carved in stone;
    peremptory
    "an irrevocable commitment"

OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)

SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)

OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.

THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.

JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)

WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?

WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)

IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?

JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.

Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?

GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)

NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?

Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.

ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?

DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?

Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..

1 Corinthians 2:10-16, The man without the spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

"LET GOD BE TRUgE..." (Romans 3:3-4)
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
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No mention of future sins.

Yes all your sins you have committed are forgiven.


Now if you sin, then you need to confess your sin to be forgiven.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9


OSAS = Heresy.


Thanks for proving that OSAS is a doctrine of demons.



Here is the truth.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


JPT

Again, am sorry for you, that you said that. Do remember you said that, for you will most likely answer to HIM for having said it.

You NEED to read my Post #66,730. In it are some of the verses that absolutely do support OSAS.


In you post #66,736 YOU MADE THE ERRONEOUS STATEMEMENT:

"Those who are in Him, must abide or remain in Him or be cast into the fire and burned.

WE WILL ABIDE IN HIM, because we LOVE HIM.


YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE, we will LOVINGLY OBEY HIM, and you Have to OBEY HIM. Your's is LEGALISM, while ours is something we LOVINGLY DO. READ JOHN 14:15, and hopefully you will understand your ERROR.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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YOU ABIDE AFTER YOU ARE SAVED, NOT BEFORE.


1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.


You do not Honor people who believe in the BIBLICAL POSITION OF OSAS.


AND YOU DO NOT ALWAYS DRIVE YOUR CAR UNDER THE SPEED ORDINANCE.








We do not honor the doctrine of OSAS, but I honour you for being a brother in Jesus Christ.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
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DID YOU READ MY POST #66,730?


The VERSE that I wanted you to read specifically is:


Romans 9:31-32 (HCSB)
31 But Israel, pursuing the law for righteousness, has not achieved ⌊the righteousness⌋ of the law.
32 Why is that? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were by works.
They stumbled over the stumbling stone.


You have fallen into the error of the ISRAELITES, which is LEGALISM.

Please come back to where you Walk By FAITH, Not By Sight.

HE WANTS YOU TO DO EVERYTHING OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM AND THE BRETHREN,

NOT because you think you HAVE TO, and then forming a sick form of PRIDE when you do.


<><.🕇.><>

Yes, I was on my way to Church, and five blocks from my house, I got "the green apple quick step", so I had to rush home.

I guess GOD wanted me to finish this post NOW, not later.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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To Ladybug,

Very difficult to fake up fruits. That is because fruits are this:
1) the naked are clothed. Can't fake clothing someone.
2) the hungry are fed. Can't fake feeding someone.
3) the sick are taken care of and even healed. Can't fake taking care of the sick.
4) the imprisoned are visited. Can't fake a visit to the prison.
I can go on, but I hope you see my point.

OTOH, you can fake the reception of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. You can fake the idea that you are a new person in Christ. But you can only fake for a while, until someone notices that you have nothing to do with Christ. You have nothing to do with clothing the naked, or feeding the hungry, or healing the sick etc. Then the jig will be up and you will have to decide whether you want to be a real saved Christian or just a nominal, do-nothing, unsaved Christian.[/QUOTE]
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,251
3,991
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They are His sheep who are with him.

They are justified.




Repent means to turn to God.





It means they are justified.

Declared to be righteous; Right with God.



JPT
So if they are declared righteous and justified how so?

I asked who are those who are the 99 with need no reprenatnce to which you answered above.

So as believers do we never need or have need of repentance?
If so then we must be perfect, cause when we sin are we not being disobedient?

Therefore need to repent?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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Total rubbish.

We have been here before.

I told you about my childhood.
And you said the same and committed me to hell.

My so called Christian foster dad tried many many times to sexually abuse me, penetrate me.

I asked you "If the first time he did this and if I did not forgive him and died moment later would I be in hell?

You said yes I would be.

Now you are telling me that have 1 unforgivness means that I have many more.

Truly shocking and condemning and judging.
First of all BillG if you believe the bible is total rubbish, then this saying of Jesus is indeed total rubbish.

There is more than 1 place in the bible that says if you do not forgive men their trespasses against you, God will not forgive your trespasses against Him. If you think that is total rubbish, then rip those verses out of the bible.

If you believe that I said that you would go to hell if you died a few moments after you were abused, then I want to make it more clear that you would not have gone to hell. God is the judge and will judge situations perfectly.

What I said in my post is that a person that says they have 1 unforgiveness in their heart is likely to have more than 1. I did not say you absolutely have more than 1. But I will tell you that if you have 1 unforgiveness in your heart it must be a major unforgiveness that probably affects your total psyche. A person can harbor this ill feeling towards another person and their hatred can focus their attention on that tragic moment and ruin their life by redirecting their focus off of Christ. In fact in this state of hate, Christ can become a target of that anger, for a person can come to blame Christ for not being there to protect them, and fall completely away from Christ with prejudice.

You can make up myriads of examples, but it stands from what Jesus says that if you do not forgive, God will not forgive you. So believe as you will, but as for me, I will forgive all. If a monster smashes my life in some way and a moment later I die, then I will forgive him to the Fathers face.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,251
3,991
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First of all BillG if you believe the bible is total rubbish, then this saying of Jesus is indeed total rubbish.

There is more than 1 place in the bible that says if you do not forgive men their trespasses against you, God will not forgive your trespasses against Him. If you think that is total rubbish, then rip those verses out of the bible.

If you believe that I said that you would go to hell if you died a few moments after you were abused, then I want to make it more clear that you would not have gone to hell. God is the judge and will judge situations perfectly.

What I said in my post is that a person that says they have 1 unforgiveness in their heart is likely to have more than 1. I did not say you absolutely have more than 1. But I will tell you that if you have 1 unforgiveness in your heart it must be a major unforgiveness that probably affects your total psyche. A person can harbor this ill feeling towards another person and their hatred can focus their attention on that tragic moment and ruin their life by redirecting their focus off of Christ. In fact in this state of hate, Christ can become a target of that anger, for a person can come to blame Christ for not being there to protect them, and fall completely away from Christ with prejudice.

You can make up myriads of examples, but it stands from what Jesus says that if you do not forgive, God will not forgive you. So believe as you will, but as for me, I will forgive all. If a monster smashes my life in some way and a moment later I die, then I will forgive him to the Fathers face.
Ahem

Yes BillG, I believe that if you had not forgiven your abuser, you would not have eternal life with Christ, who forgave all his abusers. I do not say that you have been in hell for 1460 days, but I will say that if you had not forgiven that person, you will not live with God and Jesus for 1460 billions of eternities.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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That verse does not say future sins are forgiven!
All of our sins are forgiven past, present and future. The blood of Jesus is not weak to forgive sin as you suggest. Do you think that God forgave Adam and Eve "all of their sin" To suggest that Christians are not forgiven their future sin is to give offense and insult our Savior saying His death on a Roman cross was not sufficient enough to cover all of our sin.

Your theology is misguided to say the least.

Romans5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Romans8:1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

1John1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Matthew12:31
Therefore I tell you, "every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men," but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,251
3,991
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You can make up myriads of examples, but it stands from what Jesus says that if you do not forgive, God will not forgive you. So believe as you will, but as for me, I will forgive all. If a monster smashes my life in some way and a moment later I die, then I will forgive him to the Fathers face.
What do you mean by that and his is it different from my reality?

Afterall it seems to me that you say I would not have that opportunity.

What difference does it make if it's 1 minute, 24 hours or a year?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,251
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Psalms 145:8-20
8 The Lord is merciful and compassionate,
slow to get angry and filled with unfailing love.
9 The Lord is good to everyone.
He showers compassion on all his creation.
10 All of your works will thank you, Lord,
and your faithful followers will praise you.
11 They will speak of the glory of your kingdom;
they will give examples of your power.
12 They will tell about your mighty deeds
and about the majesty and glory of your reign.
13 For your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom.
You rule throughout all generations.
The Lord always keeps his promises;
he is gracious in all he does.
14 The Lord helps the fallen
and lifts those bent beneath their loads.
15 The eyes of all look to you in hope;
you give them their food as they need it.
16 When you open your hand,
you satisfy the hunger and thirst of every living thing.
17 The Lord is righteous in everything he does;
he is filled with kindness.
18 The Lord is close to all who call on him,
yes, to all who call on him in truth.
19 He grants the desires of those who fear him;
he hears their cries for help and rescues them.
20 The Lord protects all those who love him,
but he destroys the wicked.

 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,569
2,032
113
North Carolina
Just once.

Our salvation will be determined at the end of our faith, once it has been tested are tried and found to be true.


  • receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.



6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:6-9



Some will depart from the faith.


  • some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons



Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1




JPT

You are misguided. Once saved, nothing can separate us from God. Absolutely nothing.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,569
2,032
113
North Carolina
i once heard someone say you can be "saved" 10,000 times the day before you die

and still end up in the lake of fire



*sigh*......some people dont seem to know what savED means


If that is true, then God has no power. Some people have no security, no hope, and no power to live in the love of God. Leave it to those who believe in losing salvation to conflict with the Word of God.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,569
2,032
113
North Carolina
We do not honor the doctrine of OSAS, but I honour you for being a brother in Jesus Christ.

Once saved, always saved is not a doctrine. Read the Word of God for the People of God. What work God has done, cannot be undone. The gift once accepted seals the deal.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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What do you mean by that and his is it different from my reality?

Afterall it seems to me that you say I would not have that opportunity.

What difference does it make if it's 1 minute, 24 hours or a year?
It makes a difference if you have the opportunity or not to repent of your unforgiveness.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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You are misguided. Once saved, nothing can separate us from God. Absolutely nothing.

More opinion and insults with no scripture.


You must be a liberal Left Wing Democrat that hates the truth.



Our salvation will be determined at the end of our faith, once it has been tested are tried and found to be true.


  • receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.



6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:6-9



Some will depart from the faith.


  • some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons



Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.



JPT
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,569
2,032
113
North Carolina
More opinion and insults with no scripture.


You must be a liberal Left Wing Democrat that hates the truth.



Our salvation will be determined at the end of our faith, once it has been tested are tried and found to be true.


  • receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.



6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:6-9



Some will depart from the faith.


  • some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons



Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.



JPT


I'm assuming you are thoroughly up-to-date on the scriptures. No I do not post scripture every time I post. I'm also not going to do your scripture look up for you.

Not that my politics has anything to do with this site nor this thread, (stick to the OP), but I am a die hard conservative who believes in the Republic of the USA and for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,715
113
More opinion and insults with no scripture.


You must be a liberal Left Wing Democrat that hates the truth.



Our salvation will be determined at the end of our faith, once it has been tested are tried and found to be true.


  • receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.



6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:6-9



Some will depart from the faith.


  • some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons



Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.



JPT
Departing from the faith does not mean, nor is it interpreted as loss of salvation as you falsely assert.

Furthermore, your inflammatory and insulting comments toward a sister are noted and such behavior is asinine on your part.