Not By Works

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benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Stop hiding benhur and first of all tell us, "What denomination are you affiliated with."

Is it the Catholic Church? Stand up for Jesus!
I stand up for Jesus every day.

Tell us about predestination? Sounds like what the Mormons believe, you lived before this life? Do you believe what the Mormons believe?
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
I am sorry you feel deceived. In post 67205 the first thing I said to you was that I was a devout Catholic. justforcatholics.org is not a Catholic website but an anti-Catholic site. The walls of Catholic doctrine I posted was to show you why I was a devout Catholic. I expected you to respond with arguments why my interpretation was incorrect. This is a Bible discussion forum. All I see are disputes over scripture. Speaking of deception you said you were a former Catholic but from what you wrote you just had a few Catholic relatives. I do not think you have ever believed a Catholic doctrine in your life so I do not know why you call yourself a former Catholic.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,161
3,941
113
You know that you do not have to be Catholic to believe some of their doctrines. I just happen to believe the same way they do in terms of OSAS/ES being a false doctrine.
I have some amazing Catholic friends, who believe in Jesus.
The problem is the mix.
I won't go into the details, but you remember I have told you about my Foster Dad.
Anyway when he died and I traveled hundreds of miles to sort out his funeral and estate a good Catholic friend of mine was the only one who contacted me.
He said he was thinking of me, and praying for me.
Now here is the mix. I was truly amazed by what he did but here is the mix.
He went to Ireland, to his church, lit a candle and prayed to Mary.

I was so blessed by his thoughts and efforts and his intention but praying to Mary for me?

Over here we have a radio show where they have a pause for thought.
Normally the same people from different religions.
There is a lovely Catholic priest Brian D'Arcy.
Such a gentle man, who makes a lot of sense.
But when such a man says as he did "That the Holy Mother Mary opens the back door to heaven for those with good intentions"
I ask myself "Really"

I even went to a Catholic secondary school for my last two years of my secondary school.

So as you say to me I happen to reject the doctrine of pray to Mary as a false doctrine,
Along with having to be water baptised to be saved.

I know you believe that one is saved by baptism along with works, and forgiveness of every sin committed against us, yet you make a provision for your belief but not for those who do not have your belief.

I would say part of your rejection of ES or OSAS in part relates to baptism.
Yet you are happy to agree to disagree with a so called brother, but then stand by your belief that baptism saves, if that's the case why call them a brother?

So I would just like to ask.
If someone places genuine faith in Jesus, they tell you this.
Are they then saved?
If you say yes then they are saved, Yes?

Now given your thoughts on baptism.
If they die before being baptised for whatever reason then they are not saved.
So were they ever saved in the first place?

So does baptism save us.
I know you have talked about your son.
And I know it's dear to your heart, walked away from his faith.
It has broken your heart, and you feel a deep pain.

Was he christened as an infant.
Was he bapised as an adult?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,161
3,941
113
I am surprized that a born again Christian knows nothing of Martin Luther. He should be your hero. He is my hero is some aspects, but as he tried to reform the Christian church he treaded off the path of the biblical gospel and wound up bringing us only the half of the gospel that he thought was important. Too bad, it has affected us even down to this day.
Why would a born again Christian have have to know about Luther?

A born again Christian has to know about Jesus.

How many people have you led to Jesus that knows about Luther?

If he is your hero go with it.
But Jesus is my hero.

Many denomination has treaded of the biblical Gospel.

That's why we have all these disagreements on this thread.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
I stand up for Jesus every day.

Tell us about predestination? Sounds like what the Mormons believe, you lived before this life? Do you believe what the Mormons believe?
You know that you do not have to be Catholic to believe some of their doctrines. I just happen to believe the same way they do in terms of OSAS/ES being a false doctrine.
First tell us your Church denomination, is it Catholic? This quote above looks like you are familiar with Catholic doctrines and you have mentioned the Catholic Church in your posts supporting their doctrines.

Quote: "You know that you do not have to be Catholic, 'to believe some of their doctrines."

Are you Catholic benhur? Stand up for Jesus!
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,161
3,941
113
I stand up for Jesus every day.

Tell us about predestination? Sounds like what the Mormons believe, you lived before this life? Do you believe what the Mormons believe?
Way off base.
If you knew Mormon belief you would not be asking such a question
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
I am sorry you feel deceived. In post 67205 the first thing I said to you was that I was a devout Catholic. justforcatholics.org is not a Catholic website but an anti-Catholic site. The walls of Catholic doctrine I posted was to show you why I was a devout Catholic. I expected you to respond with arguments why my interpretation was incorrect. This is a Bible discussion forum. All I see are disputes over scripture. Speaking of deception you said you were a former Catholic but from what you wrote you just had a few Catholic relatives. I do not think you have ever believed a Catholic doctrine in your life so I do not know why you call yourself a former Catholic., (this never happened).
Show me the quote, where I said I was a former Catholic. You won't find it because I never said those words.

I never said I was a former Catholic just that half of my family was Catholic.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
Show me the quote, where I said I was a former Catholic. You won't find it because I never said those words.

I never said I was a former Catholic just that half of my family was Catholic.
You also said you were not anti-Catholic. Is that true or did you also not say that in 67205?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,161
3,941
113
Sorry but I think you have got it wrong.

TT was responding to a post you made in you made 67,198.
A link you posted.

So he was quoting from the post to the link that the person said

"I was a former Catholic"

He was not saying himself was a former Catholic
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,161
3,941
113
Quote:
"I'm a former Catholic, but I am not an anti-Catholic. I have made it my aim to 'speak the truth in love' because I have a wonderful message to share."

Hi Metternich, your link was a good read from a, "Former Catholic", does this mean you are a former Catholic as well? Also the Apostle John writes that yes we can know that we have "eternal life" today.

1John5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so "that you may know that you have eternal life."
Notice he quoted the former Catholic then he asked if you were one
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
You also said you were not anti-Catholic. Is that true or did you also not say that in 67205?
No I did not say any of these things, the author of the article you sent me did, not me

Quote from post #67205

Quote#1, "I'm a former Catholic (this was a quote from the link and article "you" provided, not from me.

Quote#2, but I am not an anti-Catholic, again this was a quote from the link and article you provided;

Why would I quote myself these things that were said were not from me they were said by the author of the website that I quoted......he said these things not me, that's why I added the "Quote"
And I presupposed that you already read the article, wow!

I did not say any of the things you said that I said, and this conversation is over, end of story.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Way off base.
If you knew Mormon belief you would not be asking such a question
Again, BillG it may be way of base for you, but I was not responding to you, I was responding to TT.
I have some amazing Catholic friends, who believe in Jesus.
The problem is the mix.
I won't go into the details, but you remember I have told you about my Foster Dad.
Anyway when he died and I traveled hundreds of miles to sort out his funeral and estate a good Catholic friend of mine was the only one who contacted me.
He said he was thinking of me, and praying for me.
Now here is the mix. I was truly amazed by what he did but here is the mix.
He went to Ireland, to his church, lit a candle and prayed to Mary.

I was so blessed by his thoughts and efforts and his intention but praying to Mary for me?

Over here we have a radio show where they have a pause for thought.
Normally the same people from different religions.
There is a lovely Catholic priest Brian D'Arcy.
Such a gentle man, who makes a lot of sense.
But when such a man says as he did "That the Holy Mother Mary opens the back door to heaven for those with good intentions"
I ask myself "Really"

I even went to a Catholic secondary school for my last two years of my secondary school.

So as you say to me I happen to reject the doctrine of pray to Mary as a false doctrine,
Along with having to be water baptised to be saved.

I know you believe that one is saved by baptism along with works, and forgiveness of every sin committed against us, yet you make a provision for your belief but not for those who do not have your belief.

I would say part of your rejection of ES or OSAS in part relates to baptism.
Yet you are happy to agree to disagree with a so called brother, but then stand by your belief that baptism saves, if that's the case why call them a brother?

So I would just like to ask.
If someone places genuine faith in Jesus, they tell you this.
Are they then saved?
If you say yes then they are saved, Yes?

Now given your thoughts on baptism.
If they die before being baptised for whatever reason then they are not saved.
So were they ever saved in the first place?

So does baptism save us.
I know you have talked about your son.
And I know it's dear to your heart, walked away from his faith.
It has broken your heart, and you feel a deep pain.

Was he christened as an infant.
Was he bapised as an adult?
"Baptism" is like 'believing", if you do what you are supposed to do, then the ordinance of baptism will save you, just like the doctrine of believing will save you. But if you do not what you are supposed to do, then the ordinance of baptism will not save you, nor will believing in Jesus save you.

My son was christened as a child and then baptized when he was older.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
No I did not say any of these things, the author of the article you sent me did, not me

Quote from post #67205

Quote#1, "I'm a former Catholic (this was a quote from the link and article "you" provided, not from me.

Quote#2, but I am not an anti-Catholic, again this was a quote from the link and article you provided;

Why would I quote myself these things that were said were not from me they were said by the author of the website that I quoted......he said these things not me, that's why I added the "Quote"
And I presupposed that you already read the article, wow!

I did not say any of the things you said that I said, and this conversation is over, end of story.
Again, you continue to be offended. Simmer down and allow a brother in the gospel to make a small mistake.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
one possible reason satan want us to doubt our salvation, so that when we somehow become convinced that we are not saved, the sin part of us will take that as an excuse "you are not saved anyway, go ahead and sin, it doesn't matter"