Not By Works

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Oct 31, 2015
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Have a friend who is a drug addict but gets very upset when someone tells him he can't love or be a child of God if he continues to use drugs, but he has cried at this and swears he doesn't want to be an addict and he truly loves and believes in Christ.
What do you make of this (anyone)?
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the first step.

Step 2, which many stubbornly refuse to obey: Stay away from anyone who is not a strong Christian. Stay away from friends and family who drink or use drugs.

Stay away from bars or any place where people use drugs or alcohol.


Step 3: pray in the Spirit and devour God’s word everyday.



1 Blessed is the man
Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
Nor stands in the path of sinners,

Nor sits in the seat of the scornful;
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
3 He shall be like a tree
Planted by the rivers of water,
That brings forth its fruit in its season,
Whose leaf also shall not wither;
And whatever he does shall prosper.
Psalm 1:1-3
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Complete Renewal
1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness ofhis resurrection: 6knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13Neither yield ye your members asinstruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members asinstruments of righteousness unto God. 14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God iseternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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At least we now understand that you hate the truth and consider the scriptures as “drivel”.

This explains a lot.



JPT
Haha no what I hate is your peddled false gospel of earned salvation and the way you devalue Christ, his work, his power, his promises to peddle your anti-Christian false dogma.....get your facts straight!
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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1 Corinthians 4 : 5-7
5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.
6 Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Haha no what I hate is your peddled false gospel of earned salvation and the way you devalue Christ, his work, his power, his promises to peddle your anti-Christian false dogma.....get your facts straight!
John 7 : 18
18 He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Haha no what I hate is your peddled false gospel of earned salvation and the way you devalue Christ, his work, his power, his promises to peddle your anti-Christian false dogma.....get your facts straight!
Philippians 2 : 8
8 And being found in appearance as a man, HE HUMBLED HIMSELF and became OBEDIENT--even death on a cross!

1 Peter 2 : 21
21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS

John 13 : 15-17
15 I have set you an example that YOU SHOULD DO AS I HAVE DONE FOR YOU
16 I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.
17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed IF YOU DO THEM.

1 John 2 : 6
6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

hebrews 5: 7-9
7 During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent SUBMISSION.
8 Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered
9 and, once made perfect, HE BECAME THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.

Ephesians 5 : 6
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.

New International Version 1984 Jude 1:4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

New International Version 1984 Titus 1:15-16 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. THEY CLAIM TO KNOW GOD, BUT BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and unfit for doing anything good.

James 2 : 26
26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT DEEDS IS DEAD.

New International Version 1984 Ephesians 5:14 for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: “WAKE UP, O sleeper, RISE FROM THE DEAD, and Christ will shine on you.”

New International Version 1984 Romans 13:11 And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because OUR SALVATION IS NEARER NOW than when we FIRST BELIEVED.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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T...,
I do not understand how you/one can conclude this without specific scripture.
Do you have one?

I know of people who were committed to Christ and are a back slider now.
One, because His sister went through a horrible experience with mush pain associated with cancer and death. He just walked away from G-d.
Remember The Bible says that we...." must maintain until the end". ...our commitment to G-d. A clear acknowledgement that some may stray....and they do.

It is total trust in the Scriptures. Backsliders will return to the Father in repentance. Those you think they lost their Salvation, never had it in the first place:

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Have a friend who is a drug addict but gets very upset when someone tells him he can't love or be a child of God if he continues to use drugs, but he has cried at this and swears he doesn't want to be an addict and he truly loves and believes in Christ.
What do you make of this (anyone)?

Tell him to read these verses:


2 Timothy 4:5 (NRSV)
5 As for you, always be sober, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, carry out your ministry fully.


1 Peter 5:8 (NKJV)
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.


1 Corinthians 10:13 (NCV)
13 The only temptation that has come to you is that which everyone has. But you can trust God, who will not permit you to be tempted more than you can stand. But when you are tempted, he will also give you a way to escape so that you will be able to stand it.


Ephesians 5:17-21 (NIV)
17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is.
18 Do not get drunk on wine , which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.
19 Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord,
20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.


Then if he is still tempted, turn to SPIRITUAL SONGS LIKE THIS, and the temptations will dissipate:

 
Oct 31, 2015
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Have a friend who is a drug addict but gets very upset when someone tells him he can't love or be a child of God if he continues to use drugs, but he has cried at this and swears he doesn't want to be an addict and he truly loves and believes in Christ.
What do you make of this (anyone)?
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the first step.

Step 2, which many stubbornly refuse to obey: Stay away from anyone who is not a strong Christian. Stay away from friends and family who drink or use drugs.

Stay away from bars or any place where people use drugs or alcohol.


Step 3: pray in the Spirit and devour God’s word everyday.



JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Haha no what I hate is your peddled false gospel of earned salvation and the way you devalue Christ, his work, his power, his promises to peddle your anti-Christian false dogma.....get your facts straight!
Rather that revile and say things against me falsely, couldn’t pick out a specific point I made that you disagree with and explain why you disagree?





Of course Salvation can not be earned.

We are helpless and in bondage to the sin that dwells in our carnal nature, with Satan as our lord and master, as a sinner; unbeliever.


It is through God's great mercy and love for us that He calls us to repent; to turn to Him, by turning away from Satan as out lord.


  • Here is the Gospel message that Jesus Himself taught to Paul on the road to Damascus -
  • to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins

16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20


Here is the Gospel message that Paul tells king Agrippa that he proclaims -


  • but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

If we turn away from Satan as lord, by confessing Jesus as Lord, then as our Lord, we are to obey Him, if we believe the Gopel.



Could you tell us in your own words, why a born again Christian who is empowered by the Spirit of God, would want to disobey God, in which they show hatred toward God by not obeying His commandments?


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


  • this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

His Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, empowers us to walk in the truth, and obey the truth, and speak the truth, which is loving God and loving our neighbor.


His word, His message, His doctrine is about love: Loving God, and loving His children.



  • “If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15


He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” John 14:21

  • He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.


Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. John 14:23

  • If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word;
He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me. John 14:23

  • He who does not love Me does not keep My words

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5



If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?

If we covet our brothers things, is that love or hate?

If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?


20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20




JPT
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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That Eph. 5:18, refers to wine, OR any other substance, INCLUDING DRUGS.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Drugs are also found in the Bible, but few recognize them. You had to go to a Sorcerer, to get magic potions; nothing more than DRUGS.


Galatians 5:19-21 (NRSV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: fornication, impurity, licentiousness,
20 idolatry, sorcery {the word in Greek is "pharmakeia", the same word we get pharmaceuticals from},
enmities, strife, jealousy, anger, quarrels, dissensions, factions,
21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these. I am warning you, as I warned you before: those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 9:20-21 (NASB)
20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;
21 and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
Premise 1: God draws the unsaved to desiring salvation
Premise 2: the one that desires salvation, decides to place their faith in Jesus
Premise 3: once they place their faith in Jesus, the Holy Spirit enters them
Premise 4: the Holy Spirit seals them onto the day of redemption

which of these premises are most disagreed upon?
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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  1. Not by works( NOT VOID OF WORKS) but by grace thru FAITH.(eph 2:8-9)
  2. Justified by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.(james 2:24)
  3. Faith that Worketh in Love.(gal 5:6)
  4. Faith and Action Working TOGETHER.(james 2:22)

Salvation is by GRACE through FAITH and NOT BY WORKS(of ourselves).(#1)


It is NOT BY FAITH ALONE(#2)but it WORKS in LOVE(#3)thus FAITH & LOVE(works of obedience(romans 1:5) manifested in ACTION and in TRUTH)(1john 3:16-18)are working TOGETHER.(#4)


2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE: THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.




THE FIRST PHASE OF SALVATION IS TO BELIEVE IN THE ONE THAT GOD HAS SENT AND IN HIS WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.

(john 6:28-29, eph 1:13,romans 10:8-17).

THROUGH THIS FAITH WE WILL RECEIVE THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT(the Helper/Counsellor)(gal 3:14, john 14:16-17)


John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the WORKS GOD REQUIRES?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to BELIEVE in the one he has sent.”


THE SECOND PHASE IS THE WORKING OUT OF THAT SALVATION AND REMAINING/CONTINUING IN THE FAITH TO THE END THROUGH OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL AND COMMANDMENTS, DOING GOOD WORKS. WALKING AS JESUS DID AND BEING A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST WHO DOES THE WORKS BEING LED BY THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST WHO IS THE HEAD.


Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, HIS BODY OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.


1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.


1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.


John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has FAITH in me WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father


1 Corinthians 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, iF YOU HOLD FIRMLY TO THE WORD I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.


Romans 1:5 Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the OBEDIENCE that comes from FAITH.


Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always OBEYED—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—CONTINUE TO WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.


Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—WHETHER YOU ARE SLAVES TO SIN, WHICH LEADS TO DEATH, OR TO OBEDIENCE, WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?


2 Corinthians 9:13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the OBEDIENCE THAT ACCOMPANIES YOUR CONFESSION OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.


Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to PREPARE God’s people FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the FULLNESS of Christ.


Romans 2:7 To those who by persistence in DOING GOOD seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.


Galatians 6:9 Let us not become weary in DOING GOOD, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.


Ephesians 2:10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do.


1 Timothy 6:18-19 Command them TO DO GOOD, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.


Hebrews 5:8-9 Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered and, once made PERFECT, he became the SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION for all who OBEY HIM.


Matthew 19:16-17 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do TO GET ETERNAL LIFE?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.”


Matthew 25:21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful SERVANT You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. COME AND SHARE YOUR MASTER’S HAPPINESS!’


WE ARE SANCTIFIED BY THESE TRUTHS AS IT IS WRITTEN:

John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.


James 1:22 BUT BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD AND NOT HEARERS ONLY deceiving your own selves.


Romans 2:13 (For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God: that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS; and His commandments are not grievous.


1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth.


Ephesians 3:19 and to know this LOVE that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all THE FULLNESS OF GOD.


THE THIRD PHASE OF SALVATION IS SALVATION FROM GOD’S WRATH. THIS IS DEPENDING ON GOD’S MERCY AND JUDGMENT(JUSTICE).


Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”


1 John 4:17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because IN THIS WORLD WE ARE LIKE HIM.


Matthew 12:36-37 But I tell you that MEN WILL HAVE TO GIVE ACCOUNT ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”


John 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father,(ref:john 14:12) where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment,(ref:hebrews 10:26-27) because the prince of this world now stands condemned.


Romans 2:5-10 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.


Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? FOR WE WILL ALL STAND BEFORE GOD’S JUDGMENT SEAT.


2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.


Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, NOT TO BEAR SIN, BUT TO BRING SALVATION to those who are waiting for him.


1 Peter 4:17-18 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY the gospel of God? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the SINNERS.


John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who WORKS for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.


John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.


John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
you do know that you don't have to print the whole bible here, right?
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things arenaked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

15and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, andis profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:17that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

20Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

21Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! 22Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:23which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! 24Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: BECAUSE THEY HAVE CAST AWAY THE LAW OF THE LORD OF HOST, ÀND DESPISED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL.

1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;10but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11for there is no respect of persons with God.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Premise 1: God draws the unsaved to desiring salvation
Premise 2: the one that desires salvation, decides to place their faith in Jesus
Premise 3: once they place their faith in Jesus, the Holy Spirit enters them
Premise 4: the Holy Spirit seals them onto the day of redemption

which of these premises are most disagreed upon?
Although we are commanded to BELIEVE and will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving belief/faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) and enables us/unless it has been granted to him by My Father (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to Christ all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.

Ephesians 1:13 - in Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
I wonder how many here believe they maintain their own salvation through an on-going effort......rather than recieve salvation by grace through faith..... as a free gift..... like the bible says


from the out of context verses
and horrible misunderstandings i see every time i pop on
it seems like a lot of people are lost


but i love to come on and see God using His children to stand against these false doctrine and shine light on the truth in love



blessings to you guys/girls
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Premise 1: God draws the unsaved to desiring salvation
Premise 2: the one that desires salvation, decides to place their faith in Jesus
Premise 3: once they place their faith in Jesus, the Holy Spirit enters them
Premise 4: the Holy Spirit seals them onto the day of redemption

which of these premises are most disagreed upon?

Now all you need to do is put the appropriate scripture with each "premise".




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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I wonder how many here believe they maintain their own salvation through an on-going effort......rather than recieve salvation by grace through faith..... as a free gift..... like the bible says

It is a free gift that can not be earned.


Those who are in Christ, must remain in Christ, by obeying His commandments which are all about love.


Loving God and loving our neighbor.


Those who walk in love for a while then begin to hate their neighbor, by coveting or stealing, or commiting adultery with their neighbors wife, have if fact become murderers.


  • Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


It's one thing to be in Christ, it's another to remain in Christ.


  • Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


  • this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.



This is clearly what Jesus taught His disciples: The doctrine of Christ.



21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:21-22


again


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


  • Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.



JPT